Could anime be used as a language learning tool?

[Uchiha]

Hello,
In my earlier introduction post I told you all that I will be learning elementary Japanese starting in August. One of the main reasons I have chosen Japanese is have been hooked on anime since childhood. Now a days I find myself watching shows where I have to read subtitles more than I watch shows in English. I was thinking maybe I could use this hobby of mine to my advantage if I knew anime that was geared more towards younger children. The anime I watch is mostly the mainstream stuff that everyone that knows about anime watches. I was thinking maybe there is like a Sesame Street of Japan though. If you're not familiar with Sesame Street it's an American television show that teaches very young kids their letters and numbers and other basic educational stuff using funny puppets as the teachers. Is there anything like this in Japan maybe I could watch and learn from? Thanks for your help

 

[Majestic]

Hmm. Anime is tough because it often uses a surprisingly high-level vocabulary, and uses a lot of cultural references that the average American (European, etc.) kid might not get. I'm thinking of anime like One Piece or Crayon Shinchan or YuGiOh, or things like that. Ghibli anime are actually super high-level, although they seem like they would be easy to understand because they involve children and seemingly childlike themes.

We've got a couple of posters who are learning Japanese, so maybe they can chime in. Also, as Uncle Frank says in the other thread, there is a TON of info here on this site related to learning Japanese. You might want to check out some threads by @JapaneseLily or @Buntaro to see what they have to offer.

 

[nice gaijin]

Matt vs Japan claims to have learned most of his Japanese through intense immersion, basically watching a lot of anime. As he puts it, although "anime Japanese" isn't exactly "regular Japanese," it's still 90% the same, so if you learn how to differentiate what "anime flavor" has been added to make a character's speech pattern unique, it can serve as a study aid. Lots of anime do also have high level or very specific vocabulary, so it's equally important to study the world of that anime and those specifics to tease that out and understand what words aren't really common in everyday conversation.

He recently exchanged interviews with another guy (Ken Cannon) who learned almost exclusively by anime immersion (FACT CHECKS BELOW). I don't know if this would work for everyone as well as these guys, but being in America I feel like watching content in Japanese is really my only opportunity to keep up my exposure to the language.

 

[bentenmusume]

Sigh...please don't cite MattvsJapan and KenCannon as authorities on learning Japanese.

They are both known scammers who ****** people into paying hundreds or thousands of dollars to pay for their Japanese courses on the basis that they are the only ones who can teach true Japanese, despite the fact that they actively misrepresent their own experiences with the language.

They both claim they learned solely through "immersion" when the fact is they both took classroom Japanese lessons in university, felt it didn't help them, then eventually watched a lot of native Japanese media and got comfortable with the language.

Well...guess what? This is what people have always been doing to learn languages.

They didn't just watch anime, etc., and then one day they were wow! automagically! fluent!

They had some basic grammar knowledge, then they supplemented this with native Japanese content, which reinforced their knowledge and gave them experience with the living language. Guess what? That's what I did too and no one is hailing me as some language learning god or throwing money at me because I'm the One True Speaker of Truth among non-native Japanese speakers.

Please, please don't buy into these two's misrepresentations of themselves, or promote them to beginning learners. It is an incredibly harmful and just simply not correct mindset.

Matt basically tries to convince people that if you don't learn Japanese exactly like he did -- for which you can pay him money for the privilege -- you are doomed to speaking horrible gaijin-speak forever and everyone will hate you. Never mind the fact that he hasn't published anything on the internet that isn't heavily curated or approved by him.

I am so tired of seeing these people who are just pretty decent Japanese learners with good PR presenting themselves as some sort of language learning god and suckering people in.

---

I have more to say about this to the OP -- which I'll say when I'm thinking a bit more clearly -- but for now I agree with Majestic's post entirely.

Sorry, mdchachi, I really don't want to be antagonistic, but MattvsJapan and Ken Cannon are not positive, authentic, or trustworthy presences in the Japanese learning community, and I would rather not see their lies and scams promulgated here. Thank you.

 

[nice gaijin]

Sigh...please don't cite MattvsJapan and KenCannon as authorities on learning Japanese.

They are both known scammers who ****** people into paying hundreds or thousands of dollars to pay for their Japanese courses on the basis that they are the only ones who can teach true Japanese, despite the fact that they actively misrepresent their own experiences with the language.

They both claim they learned solely through "immersion" when the fact is they both took classroom Japanese lessons in university, felt it didn't help them, then eventually watched a lot of native Japanese media and got comfortable with the language.

Well...guess what? This is what people have always been doing to learn languages.

They didn't just watch anime, etc., and then one day they were wow! automagically! fluent!

They had some basic grammar knowledge, then they supplemented this with native Japanese content, which reinforced their knowledge and gave them experience with the living language. Guess what? That's what I did too and no one is hailing me as some language learning god or throwing money at me because I'm the One True Speaker of Truth among non-native Japanese speakers.

Please, please don't buy into these two's misrepresentations of themselves, or promote them to beginning learners. It is an incredibly harmful and just simply not correct mindset.

Matt basically tries to convince people that if you don't learn Japanese exactly like he did -- for which you can pay him money for the privilege -- you are doomed to speaking horrible gaijin-speak forever and everyone will hate you. Never mind the fact that he hasn't published anything on the internet that isn't heavily curated or approved by him.

I am so tired of seeing these people who are just pretty decent Japanese learners with good PR presenting themselves as some sort of language learning god and suckering people in.

---

I have more to say about this to the OP -- which I'll say when I'm thinking a bit more clearly -- but for now I agree with Majestic's post entirely.

Sorry, mdchachi, I really don't want to be antagonistic, but MattvsJapan and Ken Cannon are not positive, authentic, or trustworthy presences in the Japanese learning community, and I would rather not see their lies and scams promulgated here. Thank you.

hm, I wouldn't consider them experts or endorse their methods/courses, just a counterpoint to the other extreme of "don't watch anime at all" that I've also heard. I didn't know there was controversy around Matt v Japan and I hadn't heard of Ken Cannon before watching that interview, but their "origin" stories do feel a little... glossed over or polished in a way to give a certain impression, so I understand where you're coming from there.

Having watched a lot of polyglot content I've noticed that there are a variety of tools that people use to learn languages, and the only real commonality in their success is consistency, and the key to consistency is to find a way to enjoy studying the target language. In that sense, if anime is something you enjoy and the alternative to watching it is to lose interest or not study or consume Japanese content, I think in that case anime is at least providing some benefits because it provides both the motivation to study and the means to keep up regular exposure.

 

[JapaneseLily]

Hmm. Anime is tough because it often uses a surprisingly high-level vocabulary, and uses a lot of cultural references that the average American (European, etc.) kid might not get. I'm thinking of anime like One Piece or Crayon Shinchan or YuGiOh, or things like that. Ghibli anime are actually super high-level, although they seem like they would be easy to understand because they involve children and seemingly childlike themes.

We've got a couple of posters who are learning Japanese, so maybe they can chime in. Also, as Uncle Frank says in the other thread, there is a TON of info here on this site related to learning Japanese. You might want to check out some threads by @JapaneseLily or @Buntaro to see what they have to offer.

Thank you very much for your mention It is not so easy to understand what they are talking in Anime but though it is a good way to get the pronunciation , intomation and speaking pitch by listening them in Anime It's not so important to understand each word.

 

[bentenmusume]

hm, I wouldn't consider them experts or endorse their methods/courses, just a counterpoint to the other extreme of "don't watch anime at all" that I've also heard. I didn't know there was controversy around Matt v Japan and I hadn't heard of Ken Cannon before watching that interview, but their "origin" stories do feel a little... glossed over or polished in a way to give a certain impression, so I understand where you're coming from there.

Having watched a lot of polyglot content I've noticed that there are a variety of tools that people use to learn languages, and the only real commonality in their success is consistency, and the key to consistency is to find a way to enjoy studying the target language. In that sense, if anime is something you enjoy and the alternative to watching it is to lose interest or not study or consume Japanese content, I think in that case anime is at least providing some benefits because it provides both the motivation to study and the means to keep up regular exposure.

I have a lot more I could say about this, but of course I'm not advocating some "don't watch anime at all" viewpoint.

I'd like to think that over the course of twenty-something-odd years, I've tried to provide a nuanced and intelligent viewpoint here.

I just don't agree with promoting known scammers as authorities on the Japanese language.

If you don't really know who these people are, what they're promoting, etc., it is very disingenuous to tell a beginner "you should listen to MattVsJapan and KenCannon".

That's literally all I'll say about this for now.

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

Anime can be a useful tool for learning Japanese. And why not? They're speaking in Japanese, after all. As long as you realize the limitations, many already listed in this thread, it can be an entertaining way to reinforce what you've learned and learn new things.

The first anime I ever saw in Japanese was Mononoke Hime. I had no clue what was going on. I wouldn't recommend that to a beginner!

Sazae-san was pretty good for a beginner, though.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sazae+san+%E3%82%B5%E3%82%B6%E3%82%A8%E3%81%95%E3%82%93

 

[Majestic]

it is a good way to get the pronunciation

That is a good point, I hadn't considered that. Yes, Anime might be very useful for understanding pronunciation.

The vocabulary and humor will be difficult to understand, but the dialogue will be useful for understand how the words and intonation should sound. Sazae-san might indeed be good for a beginner (as @Mikawa Ossan suggested). Totoro has a lot of dialogue between kids, and kids + parents, so the vocabulary isn't too high-level - so that might be good.

@Uchiha says they will be starting studies in August. Will this be formal studies with a textbook, or is it a different kind of study? If you are starting off with an textbook, supplementing that with watching Anime won't hurt you.

 

[Uchiha]

That is a good point, I hadn't considered that. Yes, Anime might be very useful for understanding pronunciation.

The vocabulary and humor will be difficult to understand, but the dialogue will be useful for understand how the words and intonation should sound. Sazae-san might indeed be good for a beginner (as @Mikawa Ossan suggested). Totoro has a lot of dialogue between kids, and kids + parents, so the vocabulary isn't too high-level - so that might be good.

@Uchiha says they will be starting studies in August. Will this be formal studies with a textbook, or is it a different kind of study? If you are starting off with an textbook, supplementing that with watching Anime won't hurt you.

@Majestic yes its formal. I'm a freshman at university and they require foreign language for their bachelor's of arts degrees and I picked Japanese. It's textbooks, lab work (whatever that is), and a traditional classroom setting.

 

[Majestic]

Excellent. You'll do very well, I think.
And you've got a bunch of uncles and aunts (brothers and sisters? grandparents???) here on JREF to help you out if you get stuck.

 

[nice gaijin]

@Majestic yes its formal. I'm a freshman at university and they require foreign language for their bachelor's of arts degrees and I picked Japanese. It's textbooks, lab work (whatever that is), and a traditional classroom setting.

"lab work" will likely be language lab stuff, where you'll probably be encouraged to pair with someone to run through example dialogues and the like. Lecture alone is only good for getting a grasp on the concepts, grammar and vocab (assuming you're paying attention); language must be used to be truly learned.

Also, of all the Ghibli movies I've watched, I think Ponyo may be the most accessible for beginners, very simple and easy to understand.

 

[nice gaijin]

I have a lot more I could say about this, but of course I'm not advocating some "don't watch anime at all" viewpoint.

I'd like to think that over the course of twenty-something-odd years, I've tried to provide a nuanced and intelligent viewpoint here.

I just don't agree with promoting known scammers as authorities on the Japanese language.

If you don't really know who these people are, what they're promoting, etc., it is very disingenuous to tell a beginner "you should listen to MattVsJapan and KenCannon".

That's literally all I'll say about this for now.

I don't think we really disagree on this, and neither of us are advocating for either extreme of "anime is THE path to fluency," or "stay away from it completely," just that it can be a helpful study aid if it keeps you engaged, and you have the ability to discern what's useful and what's unrealistic--therein lies the crux; aside from just exposure and giving the viewer an "ear" for Japanese, they must have a foundational grasp of the language to really benefit from Japanese content as a study aid.

I haven't looked so much into all these youtubers and their various courses, so I wouldn't endorse any of them without knowing more; I should have made this more clear. I've only watched a handful of videos of Matt, or interviews with him, and I always duck out at the end of these videos when they start promoting their own stuff, so I didn't even know he was peddling his own course. This is literally the first I'd heard of Ken Cannon, so all I had to go on was the content of this one conversation, which seemed relevant to the question asked in this thread. I didn't mean to upset anybody by linking to his video, and after listening to the whole interview I realize that they indeed do play up their "input" methods and downplay the fact that they both also pursued traditional study methods (and had that foundation I mentioned above). I won't rewrite my original post but I did add a note to encourage reading on.

It's clear that part of the branding of these new youngsters is based in the same populist marketing techniques that claim to offer a quick shortcut to fluency, or address a blind spot in "traditional" learning methods (quite a few of them have zeroed in on pitch accent as the long-ignored lynchpin to sounding fluent). I agree, it's misleading and unethical, but it's also part of the "hustle" these days, where social media has pushed people to making more extreme claims in order to stand out amongst a crowded marketplace... just look at the ridiculous video titles people use on these channels to attract clicks and play to the algorithm, even the title of interview I linked is bombastic. Some people embrace these tactics and enrich themselves, while others hold to their morals, even if it means their voices fade into the noise.

I also agree that that's exhausting and discouraging if you haven't become numb to the cacophony, but I encourage you to not give up, and if you want to warn people against people you think are operating in bad faith then I appreciate you doing so.

Personally, I've considered making my own materials focusing on the phonology of Japanese, which is more about the way the mouth forms the sounds of a language and the rules that affect them, as I find this covers not only the pitch accent errors made by language learners, but other more fundamental mistakes that make foreign speakers stand out. But aside from a little bit of schooling and a fading modicum of fluency, I'm just some guy with imposter syndrome, who would listen to me? But then I look around and see all the people just BSing their way into success, and I realize that I'm far too hard on myself. Nobody knows everything, we're all just trying to make our own contributions in the hope of being of benefit to others.

 

[Belkov]

A good few years ago, I started learning Spanish. I thought I was doing quite good at it where I could at least speak simple sentences. I had went on holiday there and I was meet with either blank faces when speaking to locals or that they spoke English. I gave it trying to learn the language because if you are not living in a country where the language is spoken, there is no use for learning the language other than the saying to people that you had did.

One thing I will say is that Spanish people speak very quickly where the words at times merges together. Even though you may know Spanish words, Spanish spoke by Spanish people is almost incomprehensible. I had learned Spanish using DuoLingo which used spoken language so I was able to get used to hearing Spanish words and in doing so, it was easier to understand spoken Spanish from YouTube clips even though they were talking fast.

It is part of the immmersion part of language learning where when you hear the words you will get used to listening to it and then be able to listen to it spoken by native speakers. In that way, while watching Anime might not be totally helpful in learning Japanese, it will help you to listen to native Speakers and be able to pick out words and in time when your proficiency improves, will be able to communicate with them.

 

[Uchiha]

Here's the textbook I will be using.

 

[mdchachi]

Sorry, mdchachi, I really don't want to be antagonistic, but MattvsJapan and Ken Cannon are not positive, authentic, or trustworthy presences in the Japanese learning community, and I would rather not see their lies and scams promulgated here. Thank you.

No need to apologize. My feelings weren't hurt. Actually I've never seen either of these people and I've only heard about Matt secondhand here. I should note that this is my first post in this thread so I'm not sure why you're saying my name in vain to begin with.

If you're not familiar with Sesame Street it's an American television show that teaches very young kids their letters and numbers and other basic educational stuff using funny puppets as the teachers. Is there anything like this in Japan maybe I could watch and learn from? Thanks for your help

To answer Uchiha's original question: you could try out Shimajiro which is an education anime aimed at preschoolers. If it gets to the point where you're not learning anything from it, you'll know you've reached the next level!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQOkMREmJU1KbbbnHWhkzxg

They also have it translated into English so I guess you could check the same episode in English if you wanted to check out something. Or feel free to ask questions here.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5flffL48dcmWolzXrPJA_A

 

[Buntaro]

Hi Uchiha and welcome to the forum.

Can you read and write all of the hiragana and katakana?

 

[Uchiha]

Hi Uchiha and welcome to the forum.

Can you read and write all of the hiragana and katakana?

No I don't start my first class until the 15th. I know nothing

 

[nice gaijin]

No I don't start my first class until the 15th. I know nothing

Let's reframe that, you have infinite potential

 

[mdchachi]

No I don't start my first class until the 15th. I know nothing

If you want to get a jump on things and surprise your teacher with your knowledge you can start with this thread:

Japanese writing system for beginners

There are many people who would like to learn Japanese but don't know where to begin. I know they would like to start by learning simple phrases such as "Hello," "How are you?", "It's a nice day, isn't it?", "What is your name", etc., but I want everyone to put aside the learning of such phrases...

jref.com

 

[Buntaro]

You should start NOW learning the basics of the Japanese writing system. This will make your life much easier when you start class. (It will also give you a slight head start over the other students in the class.) Would you like to try?

 

[Uchiha]

You should start NOW learning the basics of the Japanese writing system. This will make your life much easier when you start class. (It will also give you a slight head start over the other students in the class.) Would you like to try?

Yes! I would like to try! Also thanks to whoever made me my sweet new avatar!

 

[Buntaro]

Uchiha-san,

Mchachi has posted a link to my thread, "Japanese writing system for beginners." It is a list of YouTube videos to watch.

Watch one video a day. (You can watch more than one video a day, just don't burn out.) The fourth video is by a YouTuber called Tomo Sensei. This video begins introducing characters (called hiragana) one by one. Watch how to write them. (Make sure you write the strokes in the right order and in the right direction.) Watch each hiragana character, stop the video, write the hiragana character ten times, then go on to the next character.

Keep us posted as to how it is going.

 

[Majestic]

I already don't like your textbook

I don't like the name. Yookoso. As a word, its fine. It means "welcome". What I don't like is how the author has spelled it.

Yookoso = US readers will think its pronounced the same as yoo-hoo.
I would have much preferred Yōkoso!

And then the author's name: a hyphenated given name with double capitalization (Yasu-Hiko). Nobody does this in Japan. Horrible.
Why hyphenate and then capitalize the 2nd syllable? Already I wish to have a long discussion with the author.
Yasuhiko is fine.

But then - and my hands tremble as I type this - he spells his own surname (which has another elongated "o" sound just like yōkoso) with an "oh"! Good lord. I haven't even gone to page 1, and I already want to scream, "Pick a lane and stay in it!". If you are committed to representing the long "o" sound with a double-o, as in Yookoso, which I hate, then why choose a different way to represent it for you own name? Why not spell your own surname as Toosaku? Or, to keep it consistent with the first name, Too-Saku?? I weep for his students, who already have three inconsistencies to deal with, and they haven't even cracked open the book.

It should be: Yōkoso, by Yasuhiko Tōsaku. Any other spellings are rubbish.

Sorry - @Uchiha all this will fly over your head. I shouldn't confuse you. I'm poking fun at the author's expense, because he's all over the place with regards to how to transliterate Japanese words into the English alphabet. Ideally, you will memorize the 46 hiragana characters quickly, and say goodbye to inconsistent English spellings forever. (Note the use of the word "Ideally"). Its not too hard to memorize them, and once you do you can begin spelling words like yōkoso （ようこそ）, which are native Japanese words and don't have any kanji equivalent. No need to wait until class starts. You can pick up 5 hiragana a day and you'll be set.

 

[mdchachi]

And then the author's name: a hyphenated given name with double capitalization (Yasu-Hiko). Nobody does this in Japan. Horrible.
Why hyphenate and then capitalize the 2nd syllable? Already I wish to have a long discussion with the author.

How dare you pick on Professor Tohsaku!

Yasu-Hiko Tohsaku is Associate Professor at the University of California, San Diego, where he is the Director of the Language Program at the Graduate School of International Relations and Pacific Studies and the Coordinator of the Undergraduate Japanese Language Program. He received his Ph.D. in Linguistics from the University of California, San Diego in 1983. He is the author of numerous articles on second language acquisition and Japanese language pedagogy. In addition, he has been involved with the development of Japanese language teaching videos and computer-assisted language learning programs.

Chances are when he started romanizing his name, it wasn't even possible to write the long o that way. Probably ASCII was all he had.
Actually I don't know even know how you do it now. How do you write the letters with macrons on a PC?
As for the hyphen, my guess is that a long time back he got tired of dumb gaijin mispronouncing his name as Yashiko or Yasuko and had to resort to this representation.