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Why Japan make Chinese so angry OFFTOPIC about Korean history textbooks

miles7tp

先輩
13 May 2004
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18
to Maciamo

Maciamo wrote:
I heard a few Japanese tell me that Japan had a 3000 years history

who?
I heard?
そんな奴は「とんでも」なの。
A few Japanese who tell Macimo that Japan has a 3000 years history are stupid fellows.
馬鹿はどこの国にもいるけど、
Korean President says that our history has 5000 years.
大統領をはじめ国民がみんな言ってるのはどうよ?
教科書にも書いてあるだろ。
Korean history textbook tells you that our history has 5000 years.

Maciamo wrote:
you seem to say that it is 2000 years

seem? seem? seem? seem? seem? seem? seem? seem? seem?
オレが日本の歴史は2000年って主張したってことかい?
ふーん?どこで?
 
miles7tp said:
seem? seem? seem? seem? seem? seem? seem? seem? seem?
オレが日本の歴史は2000年って主張したってことかい?
ふーん?どこで?

Here :

miles7tp said:
Korean President and Korean say that our history has 5000 years. But 3000 years is a myth made in 12 century.

5000 - 3000 = 2000. Fair enough. You can't just round up 500 years and expect me to think you are less stupid than the people who told me Japan had 3000 years history.
 
to Macimo

Korean President and Korean say that our history has 5000 years. But 3000 years is a myth made in 12 century.

I wrote :
Korean President and Korean say that "Korean" history has 5000 years. But "Korean 3000 years" is a myth made in 12 century.

I never wrote Japanese history.

おれは、韓国の歴史の話しをしているの。
どうして5000-3000で2000年が日本の歴史なんだよ?
 
横やりで失礼ですが、Maciamoさんは、「history」=「史書」と捉え、miles7tpさんは「history」を「歴史」と捉えているのかも。
そもそも、語意について一致していないことからくる誤解なのかもしれないですね。

「歴史」の意味は、「史書に記された出来事」に限られないより広い概念です。
歴史の検索結果 - goo国語辞書

ちなみに、「history」を「史書」と解した場合、「漢書地理志」において、紀元前100年頃の日本列島の様子が書かれたのが最初ですから、日本の歴史は2100年となりますね。

「歴史」を「人間社会が時間の経過とともに移り変わってきた過程と、その中での出来事」と解するならば、縄文時代なども含まれてきますから、さらに時代をさかのぼることになりますね。

欧州の歴史教科書については分かりませんが、日本の学校教科書では、これら有史以前の時代についても取り扱われていますから、「歴史」の意味をいかに解するかによって、頭に思い浮かぶ時間の広がりにずいぶん差が生まれるでしょう。

ちなみに、「済南事件」については、インターネットで検索すればすぐに出てきます。
済南事件 - Google 検索

Maciamoさんは日本語に堪能なのに、なぜその語学力を生かして日本語サイトをお調べにならないのか理解しかねますね。

私は、たとえ事件の真相がいかなるものであったとしても、日中戦争そのものの侵略性は不変だと思いますが、Maciamoさんが「歴史家」を名乗るのであれば、この事件については当然知っていてしかるべきですね。

そもそも、この事件について説明する英語のサイトがないのだとしたら、それはいかに当時の歴史について、西洋社会の知識に偏りがあるかを示す有力な証拠と考えられるのではありませんか?

ちなみに、韓国・北朝鮮や中国の歴史教科書については、これらを日本語訳したものが出版されています。
 
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ていうか、日本の歴史が2000年とか、どこにも書いた覚えがないのだが。
要は、韓国の歴史は正味2000年であると私が書いたのを
日本の歴史の長さと合わせたいんだろ!と邪推しただけだと思うす。
歴史の長さに異様に執着するのは、かの国の人の特徴だす。

彼は、日本語を翻訳ソフトを通じて読んでるようだす。
微妙に食い違うのはそのためだす。
 
miles7tp said:
おれは、韓国の歴史の話しをしているの。
どうして5000-3000で2000年が日本の歴史なんだよ?

Sorry for the misunderstanding. But Japan also had a mythical history going back to Jimmu (660–585 BC), about 1000 years before the first historical records.
 
kkkktttt said:
ちなみに、「history」を「史書」と解した場合、「漢書 地理志」において、紀元前100年頃の日本列島の様子が書 かれたのが最初ですから、日本の歴史は2100年となりま すね。

So you are saying that Japan's history starts 2100 years ago because that was when the country was first mentioned by the Chinese? This is different from the Western definition of history. Here is a definition from Wikipedia.

History is a term for information about the past. When used as the name of a field of study, history refers to the study and interpretation of the record of human societies
...
The events that occurred prior to human records are known as prehistory.

According to the classification of Wikipedia, Japan's prehistory is from Jomon to Yayoi, and history starts from Kofun. This is also how it is explained in the other books I have read on Japanese history.

Likewise, the history of Britain officially starts with the Roman conquest of AD 43, although we have may account from Phoenician, Greek and Roman traders of how was life in Britain as early as the 8th century BC. Britain also has a mythical history going back to the fall of Troy, about 3500 years ago. Anyway, officially the history of Britain is a bit less than 2000 years.
 
I correct a sentence I wrote before.

I correct a sentence I wrote before.
:sorry:
I wrote : Korean President and Korean say that our(Korean) history has 5000 years. But 3000 years is a myth made in 12 century.
I should have used "their", not "our".
Yes, I am poor at English.
😌
I correct Korean President, Korean people and Korean history textbook claim that Korean history has 5000 years. But 3000 years out of 5000 years is a Korean myth made in 12 century.
Maciamo will be able to understand that, I think.

Korean history textbook

1. Korean history textbook is a fantasy.
Korean President, Korean people and Korean history textbook claim that Korean history has 5000 years. But 3000 years out of 5000 years is a Korean myth made in 12 century.
2. Korean people dramatize history to keep self-esteem.
For a long time, Korea had been giving many VIRGINS to China as a present.
Such virgins are sex slaves, aren't they?
Korea people never write this fact in their history textbook.
Why could Korea become independent in 1897?
Korean history textbook never teaches you the reason.
3. You can find many obvious false descriptions in a Korean history textbook.
The description of a refugee government and the rebellion 幻の青山里の闘い will make you laugh madly.


Chinese education

1. All Chinese students get Anti-Japan education of all subjects.
They sing songs of fighting with Japanese in the musical textbook.
A story that a child fights with Japanese appear in the textbook of the Chinese language.
2. Chinese history textbook fans the flames of ill-feeling against the Japanese.
The number of victims is written exaggeratedly and the damage of a civil war is shifted onto Japan.
The fact that Chinese cruelly killed Japanese women and children is never written. 済南事件
3. China people never write the fact that China had destroyed, raped and plundered Korea in a Chinese history textbook.
Why does not Korea make a strong protest against China?

You can find many descriptions absurdly praising communism in Chinese history textbook.

🙂
 
Could some Chinese and Korean members tell miles7tp if (s)he is right or not on this ?

Anyway, why would the Koreans avoid mentioning that virgins were given (as sex slaves) to China ? This happened in almost every country in ancient times, and the practice of harem still exists in some Islamic countries. In old times, women had little choice about their marriage, and so could be considered as sex slave, but for one man.

Giving virgins as a present to a king or high ranking officials, so that they become their wives or concubines, is not the same as making those girls work as prostitutes for thousands of soldiers, like comfort women during WWII. A concubine only has one man to please and at least enjoy some kind of financial and physical protection.
 
Accuracy Please Sir !!

Perhaps this is the first and last time I comment on your outrightly biased statements in this thread. So please pay attention to each word. No, you have no problem with your English, there's no excuse for any sloppy reading or writing, Sir.
miles7tp said:
I correct a sentence I wrote before.
You should correct yourself in many statements you are making after before. I'm sure you have the capacity due to your astounding tendency towards flaming; I almost want to say 'that must have been a Japanese invention of some local ret*** society,' but I refrain from saying it because you hardly represent all of Japan. Your action speaks of your individual's level of existence. Do mind, Sir, about what you say, and how you say it; I am this close to filing an official complaint, but I know better than that.
Korean President, Korean people and Korean history textbook claim that Korean history has 5000 years. But 3000 years out of 5000 years is a Korean myth made in 12 century.
Maciamo will be able to understand that, I think.

Korean history textbook

1. Korean history textbook is a fantasy.
Korean President, Korean people and Korean history textbook claim that Korean history has 5000 years. But 3000 years out of 5000 years is a Korean myth made in 12 century.
Funny that the same claims were systematically made during the occupation period of 1910-1945. The Japanese were so intent on importing cultural items from Korea such as books and literacy since the 4th century CE, one would have assumed they admired learning and regard for the written record. They do have the regard for records, for so many were taken out of the country in either the official or the private capacity. Are you aware that there still exist huge numbers of smuggled Korean treasures, written or other, in the library of your king? In university archives, libraries, museums, and private collections that are not shared with the world, if not burned?

But why all is the book burning?
Or are you saying that never happened?
As Nanjing Massacre 南京大虐殺 never happened ?
Or as the Unit 731 Human Experiments 大日本帝國 陸軍關東七三一部隊 人間生體實驗 never happened?
Or as the Holocaust 猶太人種大虐殺 never happened?
2. Korean people dramatize history to keep self-esteem.
I take that as a shifted confession. I won't say what you shifted.
For a long time Korea had been giving many VIRGINS to China as a present.
I can clearly see you are not a professional historian, not even a serious reader of history. Mind you, Sir, this place is not a place to expose your bigotry and ignorance; for that, I suggest you go somewhere else. Do you know how much people hate that, Japanese and non-Japanese? Perhaps you imagine yourself as a devoted patriot for your country; go back to your fantasy world for that sort of debased satisfaction instead of wasting valuable JRef disk space. Are you aware that the whole world is watching what goes on this forum 24-7? Please stop defiling yourself and your country by quoting old-time bigotry. They are NOT welcome here.
Such virgins are sex slaves, aren't they?
Korea people never write this fact in their history textbook.
I'm not wasting my breath on this one; this only shows the uglier face of the old-militarist ghost of Japan. I choose not to be affected by any such unsupported statement. Go ahead write a book on it; I just might write you a free review.
Why could Korea become independent in 1897?
Korean history textbook never teaches you the reason.
You are some 90 yr old militarist ghost, or a younger wanna be who doesn't have a life, right?
3. You can find many obvious false descriptions in a Korean history textbook.
The description of a refugee government and the rebellion 幻の青山里の闘い will make you laugh madly.
Go ahead, enlighten me. You seem to be the only one laughing. Why not invite everyone on the humour?
Chinese education

1. All Chinese students get Anti-Japan education of all subjects.
They sing songs of fighting with Japanese in the musical textbook.
A story that a child fights with Japanese appear in the textbook of the Chinese language.
Can you blame them? What did your late Emperor Hirohito & his Japanese militarist leaders expect in the 'rare' case they lost? That didn't matter because they always had the Japanese big red button called forgetfulness. That is the primary reason why your country will never make it into the United Nations board of security council. Unless you shape up. Come on !! How unrealistic can your government get to even dream of it? Your PM should have gone into acting instead of politics. All that timed public display of tears for his Brazillian compatriots, while happy to relive the moments of militarist Japan's years of aggression. This does not make good politics, but I'm glad you seem to enjoy it. Are there many more like you? If so, better arm ourselves for the crazies!
2. Chinese history textbook fans the flames of ill-feeling against the Japanese.
The number of victims is written exaggeratedly and the damage of a civil war is shifted onto Japan.
So picking on numbers will make the criminal actions disappear? What is your unexaggerated version of victims of Japanese aggression towards your Asian neighbours since the Meiji period?
The fact that Chinese cruelly killed Japanese women and children is never written. 済南事件
Let's all write about it. Let me ask you again. What did you militarist Emperor & leaders expect when they started expanding out of your turf at the expense of your Asian neighbours? Did you expect them to welcome you open arms? Not fight back for all the crimes that your country committed? Wake up, Sir, this is reality !!!!! You seem to live in a fantasy world; this is not your favourite anime-manga.
3. China people never write the fact that China had destroyed, raped and plundered Korea in a Chinese history textbook.
Why does not Korea make a strong protest against China?
That is none of your ********** business Sir! Mind your manners, and you might fare better next time if ever !!
You can find many descriptions absurdly praising communism in a Chinese history textbook.

🙂
Wake up Sir! It's not exactly the Cold War now. For your information, that all ended in 1989 with President Gorbachev's Perestroika.

You're welcome. Glad to oblige.
 
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to miles7tp:

Atter reading your sloppy debate with that South Korean friend, I decide to make a plea upon you, my dear friend: Please shut up.

What you are doing in this forum is more than fanning hostility. You take on an indifferent posture, pretending not to know what you indeed know, pretending to be ignorant of what is common sense. I do hope you won't shake my positive impression about the majority of Japanese people.

Japan needs to make up with its neighbors no matter whether you are willing to do it or not. If you fail to make up with South Korea and China, oyu will feel increasingly isolated and deserted. Wait and see.

So, people without the ethic of repentance like you had better shut up, as you are harming none other than Japan for the shameful sake of your vain pride.
 
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