Why Is Japan Whaling's Bogeyman When Norway Hunts Too?

Tokis-Phoenix

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"For the anti-whaling lobby, Japan appears to be its Moby Dick, a foe to be singled out and endlessly pursued.

For example, activists chased Japanese whalers across the Southern Ocean under a full media glare this past winter.

But are the attacks fair, when other nations also engage in substantial amounts of whaling―and unlike Japan, in open defiance of international conventions?

Hunting opponents seeking to influence the International Whaling Commission (IWC), the world regulatory body, at its annual meeting in Santiago, Chile, this week were unequivocal.

Japan is the "head of the zombie and needs to be cut off," said Willie Mackenzie, oceans campaigner for Greenpeace U.K. "It's very, very clear that, internationally, Japan is behind the drive towards commercial whaling"";


Full Story;

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/06/080627-japan-whaling.html


Personally i do think that people do attack Japan too much for its whaling- yes, it kills the most whales, however at least it does its whaling under the guise of research (which BTW is not total rubbish, but not completely true either). I do think Japan is being unfairly overly targeted in this debate- there is not even half as much coverage about Iceland and Norways whale hunts in comparison to Japanese ones even though they also kill hundreds of whales.

"Greenpeace still supports subsistence whale hunts by native peoples in Arctic waters. In 2006, Greenland inhabitants alone accounted for almost 200 whale kills, including 11 fin whales, which are listed as an endangered species by the World Conservation Union (IUCN).

"Greenpeace doesn't campaign against aboriginal subsistence whaling, because it's not the problem," Mackenzie said.

That view isn't shared by the World Society for the Protection of Animals (WSPA), one of the few groups to campaign against subsistence whaling."


There seems to be a massive conflict of opinion/ideals here between certain major animal/environmental groups- Greenpeace is not completely against all whaling, but WSPA is. I think Greenpeace is being more reasonable by supporting aboriginal subsistence hunting- this way at least they aren't completely putting animals before people.

""It has almost become a religion, that whales are the only symbol of the marine ecosystem," she said. "People who believe this religion think all Japanese people are evil, because we kill whales.

"Food security is a serious problem for Japan, particularly with rising fuel prices around the world. And the government and Japanese people should stand up and say that whale meat is a good food resource that should be used to provide protein," Misaki said."



I do think there is some degree of racism towards the Japanese because of the countries whaling policies- i've seen it myself, like people saying "Lets harpoon those Japanese yellow bastards" etc.

I don't think its healthy to have so much coverage on Japanese whaling and anger directed at the Japanese- there are many more much more important wildlife problems going on it the world and i think that all of this whaling religion anger stuff often overshadows more important stuff like the poor failing state of the marine ecosystems on the whole in general etc.

I also respect the idea that whales and whaling could be a more environmentally friendly form of marine harvest- a whale has a considerable amount of meat and fat on it and every single part of the whale can be used for something. Commercial whaling is less damaging on the environment than commercial fishing like trawling- its less destructive to marine ecosystems in general.
 
These are two reasons, taken from the National Geographic article, that are probably why Japan is pressured more:

According to IWC figures, Japanese ships killed 866 whales in the 2006-2007 season, a haul that included minke, fin, sei, and sperm whales—the most of any nation. Norway placed second with a total catch of 545 whales.

Whaling countries such as Norway and Iceland confine whaling to coastal regions inside their own waters, but Japan is the only nation that still exploits Antarctic seas, now an internationally recognized sanctuary for whales.
 
These are two reasons, taken from the National Geographic article, that are probably why Japan is pressured more:
Another explanation is a long-standing reluctance the Japanese have had to improving the humaneness of their whale killing methods.


BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Whaling 'too cruel to continue'

"The Norwegians, for example, do kill a high percentage of their whales instantaneously."

Whalewatch says Norway reported around 20% of whales failed to die instantaneously in 2002/3, and that Japan reported almost 60% were not killed outright.
 
Hmm. Well then Japan needs to make more effort in making its whale killing techniques more humane and to also stop hunting in Antarctic sea's.
Still though, there are so many people on the anti-Japan whale hunting band wagon these days, and i've seen so many people surprisingly ignorant about what really goes on, i do think in part there are still many people that hold almost racist anti-Japan whaling opinions simply because the country hunts whales and not much more- some of these people i've come across didn't even know that places like Norway also hunts whales etc.
 
There seems to be a massive conflict of opinion/ideals here between certain major animal/environmental groups- Greenpeace is not completely against all whaling, but WSPA is. I think Greenpeace is being more reasonable by supporting aboriginal subsistence hunting- this way at least they aren't completely putting animals before people.

I disagree.

WSPA is at least consistent. Groups such as Greenpeace and IFAW are incredibly inconsistent and represent the double-standards at play at the IWC. My understanding is that the WSPA opposes all whaling on the grounds that whaling is "too cruel". "Aboriginal subsistence" whalers tend to take much longer to kill their whales, and so naturally this whaling is unacceptable to WSPA. Greenpeace and IFAW on the other hand, claim to oppose the whaling that is conducted using the most modern techniques, but the reasons for this are unclear. GP and IFAW do not complain about the higher levels of cruelty, nor the higher levels of conservation risks associated with "aboriginal subsistence" hunting.

Whether you are a whaler from Alaska, Canada, Greenland, Iceland, Indonesia, Japan, Norway, Russia, South Korea, St Vincent and the Grenadines, or anywhere else where whaling takes place, the condition that absolutely must be met is that the harvest be sustainable, at least over the medium to long term. The levels of conservation risk that accepted ought to be applied equally for all people, regardless of geography, race or other background.
 
Japan is the only nation that still exploits Antarctic seas, now an internationally recognized sanctuary for whales.

The sanctuary is an artifact of years of bad faith at the IWC.

The IWC was originally created because of the competing interests of whaling nations in the Antarctic hunting grounds.

During the 1960's and 1970's, although it took too long, various whale stocks that had been over-exploited were protected internationally. Whaling nations accepted these protections (although the USSR allowed illegal whaling to continue for some years).

In 1982, the "moratorium" was established, and yet it was in the main a duplication of the previous conservation measures adopted in the 1960's and 1970's. What the 1982 moratorium did acheive was ban the hunting of even the Antartic minke whale, which by 1990 was recognised by the IWC to number in the hundreds of thousands. The species was by no means over-exploited, and yet the moratorium banned further exploitation despite catch levels at the time being around 6,000 ~ 8,000 a year. Whether these levels of catch would have been sustainable over the long term or not is debatable, but with some hundreds of thousands of minke whales, they certainly weren't about to result in the sudden collapse of the minke stock like other whale stocks before them. Nonetheless, Japan eventually agreed to accept the moratorium, albeit while starting a research program to obtain a source of biological data on the population.

Roll around 1994, the IWC had received new advice that it was now possible to set sustainable catch limits for minke whales in the Antarctic. Whaling nations were willing to accept this new catch limits setting procedure, which was likely to produce lower quotas than those prior to the moratorium. At this point the IWC should have abolished the moratorium in recognition of this development, and permit catches for minke whales once again.

What the IWC did instead was establish the Southern Ocean Sanctuary, completely covering over the entire Antarctic hunting grounds that the IWC was originally established to co-ordinate exploitation within, and additionally demand that whaling nations accept new sets of regulations on whaling operations that would make whaling operations prohibitively expensive, so that even if legal, they would be impossible.

This sanctuary is certainly not "internationally recognized ". Many nations have explicitly stated that they think it's establishment was illegal.
 
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Another explanation is a long-standing reluctance the Japanese have had to improving the humaneness of their whale killing methods.

That explanation doesn't bear up well to the facts.

It was the Japanese who developed the penthrite grenade harpoons that are currently used in modern whaling operations today.

See this record from the IWC meeting held in 1983:
20. HUMANE KILLING (1983)

" The new model penthrite harpoon is expected to be fully employed by Japan in the 1983/84 Antarctic whaling season, and the 1984 coastal season. Japan intends to continue research and development of further improvements, and its objection to the Schedule amendment prohibiting use of the cold grenade harpoon will be withdrawn as soon as safety considerations are certain.

Many governments congratulated Japan on the success of its programme to replace the cold grenade harpoon, including Australia, the Netherlands, St Lucia, Seychelles, USA and Argentina.

Norway outlined the way in which the research programmes had been developed since 1979. Japan had investigated the development of the penthrite grenade whilst Norway had undertaken to look for novel alternatives. This review was now completed although no potential alternatives were found. "


As for today in 2008, Japan's hunts and Norway's hunts are different in nature. Japan's hunts are restricted by scientific requirements on the selection of whales that be hunted (they follow a strict random sampling technique in selection of the whales for hunting), where as Norway's hunts are completely commercial and thus without such requirements.

Japan has consistently continued to improved the efficiency of it's operations in recent years. If you look for more recent figures you'll see that they are an improvement on the report you quote from.
 
Whale munching b'tards!

Norwegians are a bunch of whale munching bastards - but the Japanese are worse - they try to claim that they are doing valid research - this has been shown categorically to be nonsense - it has no value whatsoever - I think Japanese should be ashamed to travel outside their own country whilst they continue this disgusting habit.
Please don't spout any crap about culture - it's a completely facile argument....the next thing is you'll be justifying cannibalism or female circumcision.......
 
Norwegians are a bunch of whale munching bastards - but the Japanese are worse - they try to claim that they are doing valid research - this has been shown categorically to be nonsense - it has no value whatsoever - I think Japanese should be ashamed to travel outside their own country whilst they continue this disgusting habit.
Please don't spout any crap about culture - it's a completely facile argument....the next thing is you'll be justifying cannibalism or female circumcision.......

Oh yeah, well Thais are bunch of chicken and shrimp murdering bastards. How dare you hurt those poor chickens, they have feelings too you know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In all seriousness, defending whales or what not like they deserve some sort of special treatment is totally ridiculous.

Of course over hunting is wrong, but to say that you (another person/culture) should not kill one animal, and yet you go home and eat another is totally hypocritical.

Get over it already.
 
If the extinction of whales does not bring chaos to the ecosystem, I see no problem with hunting them, even to extinction. Species go extinct, that's just what they do and I don't think it should drive them extinct without any valid reasons, such as harvesting them as food, but that is exactly what the Japanese are doing. Once the whales are gone, believe me, the Japanese will stop whaling. And if you think whaling is cruel, let me invite you to the pig slaughtering and cooking contests in Hungary. :D
 
Japan is the "head of the zombie and needs to be cut off," said Willie Mackenzie, oceans campaigner for Greenpeace U.K.

It has almost become a religion, that whales are the only symbol of the marine ecosystem," she said. "People who believe this religion think all Japanese people are evil, because we kill whales.

"Lets harpoon those Japanese yellow bastards" etc.

Majority of Japanese know the aboves well. Greenpeace/Sea Shepard/various activists are racists in the name of anti-whaling. And Media in their countries are flaming uneducated people and leading them towards hatreds. The same tactics as Natism.

Probably their way of thinking is quite different from us. "declare a dare" is always good, I think. 🙂 Because the West is not so powerful anymore in terms of economy.
 
I guess it's because Norway doesn't claim to be doing scientific research. Maybe I'm just crazy, but I think being blatantly lied to tends to enrage people. Or, you know, hunting in the well-established Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary. I guess Japan doesn't have to abide by that whole thing because they're Japan and it's okay because they're special.
 
"Whalewatch says Norway reported around 20% of whales failed to die instantaneously in 2002/3, and that Japan reported almost 60% were not killed outright."

Wow, there's nothing like made-up. . . er, I mean self-reported statistics for influencing public opinion.

Can anyone think of any cultural or domestic-political reasons why the Japanese figure might be more reliable than the Norwegian one?
 
It's a national disgrace for Japan - they will never be regarded as a humane nation as long as they pursue whales and then lie about it - do they think the rest of the world is populated only by fools???

Oh yeah, well Thais are bunch of chicken and shrimp murdering bastards. How dare you hurt those poor chickens, they have feelings too you know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In all seriousness, defending whales or what not like they deserve some sort of special treatment is totally ridiculous.
Of course over hunting is wrong, but to say that you (another person/culture) should not kill one animal, and yet you go home and eat another is totally hypocritical.
Get over it already.


THis is the most childish and irrational argument that is regurgitated time and again.

Most cultures eat DOMESTICATED animals and have systems for both breeding and humanely killing them.
Whales are NOT domesticated, they are mostly ENDANGEREd and are not killed humanely. Furthermore their deaths are patently unnecessary - like the killing and eating of so many wild animals and their deaths upset the ecosystem and deprive the world of intelligent and majestic animals. If you can't see the difference between killing a whale and a chicken then I feel sorry for you.
 
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It's a national disgrace for Japan - they will never be regarded as a humane nation as long as they pursue whales and then lie about it - do they think the rest of the world is populated only by fools???

Well, I guess Japan could just withdraw from the IWC and resume full scale commercial hunting. The IWC is, after all, a voluntary organization. Several non-whaling nations have withdrawn in protest (such as Canada) because the IWC has not reinstated commercial hunts even though it's scientific commission has stated that certain whale stocks (particularly the minke) are at a levels that would allow a viable commercial fishery. Never mind that the IWC does not have the authority to declare the Southern Ocean a whaling sanctuary.

I mean it does strike me as rather foolish of Japan to remain part of an organization who's stated purpose was to manage whale stocks for a viable commercial fishery but has been taken over by nations who will never vote to reinstate that commercial fishery even though the organizations own scientific committee has stated that the populations can support one.

Whales are NOT domesticated, they are mostly ENDANGEREd and are not killed humanely. Furthermore their deaths are patently unnecessary - like the killing and eating of so many wild animals and their deaths upset the ecosystem and deprive the world of intelligent and majestic animals. If you can't see the difference between killing a whale and a chicken then I feel sorry for you.

Define killing humanely. Is it humane when we use a bolt gun to try to kill a cow? How about taking a chicken, turning it upside down, sticking it's head in a funnel, and slitting it's throat?

And as for endangered - the minke whale (which makes up the majority of the Japanese catch) has never been endangered. Humpbacks have been moved from vulnerable status to least concern (1 step from being removed from conservation status all together). The only whale species the Japanese currently take that is endangered is the Fin whales (and I can agree with you there, IMHO the Fin population is to delicate to be killing individuals).

And yes, I do see a big difference between killing a whale and a chicken. On one hand you have an animal that was able to live free and (to engage in a bit of anthropomorphism) enjoy it's life before it was relatively humanely shot and killed. On the other hand you have an animal that was bred to put on weight as quickly as possible, crowded into the smallest confines possible, has it's mouth cut 1/2 off to keep it from damaging itself and others, who's whole life is (to use a bit more anthropomorphism) a living hell. Guess which one I'd rather be if I had to be reborn as an animal?
 
A supremely ignorant post - I'm sorry but only a fool argues with a fool - your arguments are facile beyond belief
If you a going to voice an opinion - do yourself a favour and get up to speed on the issues - simply trying to use "endangered" as a yardstick is just pathetic - as is your whole attitude to the subject - go and READ!!!!
 
A supremely ignorant post - I'm sorry but only a fool argues with a fool - your arguments are facile beyond belief
If you a going to voice an opinion - do yourself a favour and get up to speed on the issues - simply trying to use "endangered" as a yardstick is just pathetic - as is your whole attitude to the subject - go and READ!!!!

Let's count it down here:

1. Bilqis decides to use endangered as a yardstick with emphasis!

they are mostly ENDANGEREd

2. I refute Bilqis's post on pretty much every point.

3. Bilqis cries and screams "you're ignorant, using the wrong yard stick (that I provided), and need to read". Never mind the whole "voicing an opinion" when s/he opins (although I happen to agree with the opinion) about what a shame it would be to deprive the world of these

intelligent and majestic animals

4. And this is why environuts as a general rule make such a poor argument. Once they have an argument set in their tiny little minds they start screaming, when faced with the real facts, that the person who happens to disagree with them is ignorant and obviously hasn't educated themselves enough because they happen to hold a different opinion (based on the facts) than the environut.

5. Go hug a tree and eat some granola hippie. See, I can throw around insults too!
 
A supremely ignorant post - I'm sorry but only a fool argues with a fool - your arguments are facile beyond belief
If you a going to voice an opinion - do yourself a favour and get up to speed on the issues - simply trying to use "endangered" as a yardstick is just pathetic - as is your whole attitude to the subject - go and READ!!!!
bilqis, go somewhere else and spew your regurgitated drivel. No one wants to listen to someone who obviously has an agenda and won't listen to any other opinion other than their own. :rolleyes:

Why do they call it common sense? It certainly is not common.
 
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