japan and china gene advantage

[jim83]

I think all the country blong to usa

 

[Grandpa Frank]

Just Wonderin ????

Jim , do you ever get any hate mail or death threats??
You seem to have a great talent for stirin the pot!!

Frank

:? :?

 

[Golgo_13]

I think all the country blong to usa

All of which country (singular, as in the quoted post)? The U.S.A.?

Yes, all of the U.S.A. belongs to the U.S.

Your point being?

Jim , do you ever get any hate mail or death threats??
You seem to have a great talent for stirin the pot!!

Frank

:? :?

Howaito-san,

Another great avater! Also from your family album?

I'm still desperately searching for a "We All Hate Japan" forum to refer Jimbo to, so he'll leave us alone.

 

[Grandpa Frank]

I Think We Should All Chip In And.....

buy him a spell checker program !! He seems like such an interesting character!! I would love to meet him in person
to ahh, shake his hand??

Frank

 

[kirei_na_me]

I'm still desperately searching for a "We All Hate Japan" forum to refer Jimbo to, so he'll leave us alone.

Here's one that was posted not long ago:

japan and china gene advantage

Give it a go, jim!

 

[Golgo_13]

Here's one that was posted not long ago:

japan and china gene advantage

Give it a go, jim!

The whole thing is in Chinese!

This is ideal for Jimbo! Now he doesn't even hafta translate his Japan-bashing into English!

So how about it, Jimbo? Damo?

He seems like such an interesting character!! I would love to meet him in person
to ahh, shake his hand??

Frank

Just don't say anything nice about Japan in his presence.

 

[Grandpa Frank]

I Won't Tell You What Will Be In The ....

hand that isn't being used to shake!! HE HE, hope he appreciates our humor and knows how much we really like him !!

Frank

:joyful:

 

[alanta]

Now that you mention Mongolia, it was in fact part of the Chinese empire during the 17th-19th century, until it was wrested from China by the USSR.

So, by your perception of my logic, Mongolia should unite with China. However, I favor the current status quo, considering the recent history of that country (and despite the calls of some Chinese radicals for reunification).

Mongolia was ever one of the colonised countries of Manchu empire which slaughtered nearly 1/3 Mongolia population to conquer whole Mongolia: Ovor Mongol (South Mongol), Ar Mongol (North Mongol) and Dzungar Mongol(today's North part of Xinjiang). Mongolians never really recognised the conolist rule of the Manchu court, It' just a matter of time for the Mongolians to drive the colonists out.

As for the opinion, that many believe history can be a key reason to claim a country or territory. for example, Chinese said Tibet had been a part of Chinese empire since Yuan dynasty (despite if China itself also was a colonised country of Mongolia like Tibet at that time), so they have no any reason to struggle for national independence. it sounds reasonable. however, if you make a deeper analysis on this point, you would find that we are following a very strange logic, that once your forefathers fail to stuggle to get freedom in many hundred years ago, you and your descendants would lost the right to get freedom forever, in a word, slave's son will always be slave~

 

[DaMo]

Because you seem to think all the countries around China, e.g., Tibet, Mongolia, Okinawa, and Japan, belong to China.

I never said that Okinawa belonged to China, just that it was a tributary, like Korea. I never even hinted that Japan was ever a part of China. Mongolia was a part of China at one point, but it's been under the Soviet wing for so long it might as well remain independent. Tibet is not a "country around China", it is part of China.

Mongolia was ever one of the colonised countries of Manchu empire which slaughtered nearly 1/3 Mongolia population to conquer whole Mongolia: Ovor Mongol (South Mongol), Ar Mongol (North Mongol) and Dzungar Mongol(today's North part of Xinjiang). Mongolians never really recognised the conolist rule of the Manchu court, It' just a matter of time for the Mongolians to drive the colonists out.

Don't kid yourself. Mongolia was held under unbroken Chinese sovereignty from when the Khalkha Mongol nobles of Outer Mongolia swore allegiance to the Chinese empire in 1691, all the way to 1911, and again between 1919 and 1921. Mongolia is always recognized as a part of the Chinese empire during the Qing dynasty, even by the most conservative of historians and cartographers. The only reason Mongolia completely broke from Chinese rule was because it was taken under the wing of the Russians and later the Soviets.

 

[jeisan]

yeah but since the mongols had conquered china before that wouldn't that mean china belongs to mongolia?

correct me if im wrong, but technicly by what youve said, every area that was, at one point or another, under chinese rule should belong to present day china. this would also include parts of vietnam, afghanistan, russia; hell kubli khan went all the way to turkey. so all what about all these places? should they be part of china too?
china has been divided and united so many times. warring states, qin, han , three kingdoms, jin etc etc. yet its kind of a moot point to argue china's claims for the previous countries so why bring up the same arguement for others?

i think the point people are trying to make is past rule does not equal present and future rule.

 

[PaulTB]

I think the point people are trying to make is past rule does not equal present and future rule.

Yeah, otherwise
... All your states are belong to UK.

 

[bossel]

the Khalkha Mongol nobles of Outer Mongolia swore allegiance to the Chinese empire in 1691, all the way to 1911, and again between 1919 and 1921. Mongolia is always recognized as a part of the Chinese empire during the Qing dynasty

Speaking of Qing: they weren't even Chinese, but Manchu. Therefore you could call China under Qing rule Greater Manchuria. At the end of Ming, China was by far not as big as nowadays, the Manchus conquered much of what you now consider Chinese: eg. Xinjiang & Tibet.

For the rest of it, Jeisan has said it all.

 

[Golgo_13]

Tibet is not a "country around China", it is part of China.

Don't kid yourself. Tibet is a part of China now because it invaded it and annexed it like what Japan did in Manchuria in the 1930s.

 

[Gaki]

This thread just goes 'round and 'round and 'round in circles.

 

[Golgo_13]

Like Gene-Gene "the Dancing Machine" on The Gong Show.

Most of you here are too young to know what I'm talking about.

Hey, maybe Gene-Gene "the Dancing Machine" had a gene advantage!

 

[DaMo]

yeah but since the mongols had conquered china before that wouldn't that mean china belongs to mongolia?

correct me if im wrong, but technicly by what youve said, every area that was, at one point or another, under chinese rule should belong to present day china. this would also include parts of vietnam, afghanistan, russia; hell kubli khan went all the way to turkey. so all what about all these places? should they be part of china too?
china has been divided and united so many times. warring states, qin, han, three kingdoms, jin etc etc. yet its kind of a moot point to argue china's claims for the previous countries so why bring up the same arguement for others?

i think the point people are trying to make is past rule does not equal present and future rule.

Mongolia and China have been one country during the Qing dynasty, not just the Yuan. If you want China and Mongolia to reunite, I have no problem with that.

And I never said that every single place on earth that was ever under Chinese rule hundreds of years ago should be under Chinese rule today. Didn't I already say that Mongolia should remain independent? Kublai Khn's conquests, those took place several centuries ago and don't hold today, while the Republic of China was the successor government to the Qing dynasty. Should they have just let the entire empire fall apart?

 

[alanta]

Don't kid yourself. Mongolia was held under unbroken Chinese sovereignty from when the Khalkha Mongol nobles of Outer Mongolia swore allegiance to the Chinese empire in 1691, all the way to 1911, and again between 1919 and 1921. Mongolia is always recognized as a part of the Chinese empire during the Qing dynasty, even by the most conservative of historians and cartographers. The only reason Mongolia completely broke from Chinese rule was because it was taken under the wing of the Russians and later the Soviets.

1, Mongolia was conquered by Manchuria not China, Both Mongolia and China were colonised countries of Manchuria empire. Don't deny there was already a country of Manchuria before it invaded and conquered Mongolia, China, Tibet, Korea and other asian countries. Today Manchuria doesn't exist that doesn't mean it didn't exist in the history.

2, The basic of Mongolia's independence was the wills to be independent of all Mongolians, it's why they can borrow Russia's power to drive Manchu rulers out and defeated Chinese invasion later.

 

[DaMo]

Don't kid yourself. Tibet is a part of China now because it invaded it and annexed it like what Japan did in Manchuria in the 1930s.

Was "Manchuria" a province of Japan? No. Was Tibet a province of China? Yes.
And don't forget that Tibet was even formally returned to China by the British.

Just because the Qing dynasty was deposed doesn't mean that the entire country should fall apart into individual provinces. If the Chinese couldn't retain Tibet, you could argue that they should have let all the other provinces go as well. Tibet was not invaded out of the blue, it was part of the campaign of the Chinese Republic to hold the country together. In some cases they succeeded, in some cases they failed (Outer Mongolia for example). For some reason, the Free Tibet crowd seems to hold the impression that Tibet was always independent until the 1950s.

 

[alanta]

And I never said that every single place on earth that was ever under Chinese rule hundreds of years ago should be under Chinese rule today. Didn't I already say that Mongolia should remain independent?

Hehe, Despite the thing about Mongolia, how do u judge a country/territory dwelled by Non-Chinese should or not be under chinese rule today if it's not a key reason that China ever conquered it or was conquered by it or was conquered with it at the same time by a same foreign force in the history? For example, if it's not a important reason for china to claim tibet that Tibet and China were united into a common empire by Mongolia later by Manchuria, then what reason is for China to claim Tibet? I think, you would never account Tibetant's wills into it, hehe...

Was "Manchuria" a province of Japan? No. Was Tibet a province of China? Yes.
And don't forget that Tibet was even formally returned to China by the British.

Just because the Qing dynasty was deposed doesn't mean that the entire country should fall apart into individual provinces. If the Chinese couldn't retain Tibet, you could argue that they should have let all the other provinces go as well. Tibet was not invaded out of the blue, it was part of the campaign of the Chinese Republic to hold the country together. In some cases they succeeded, in some cases they failed (Outer Mongolia for example). For some reason, the Free Tibet crowd seems to hold the impression that Tibet was always independent until the 1950s.

People like you really should be born into the time of 2000 years ago. Wasn't PRC a post Manchuria empire according to your logic? What's difference between a modern democractic country and an ancient empire in your idea?

 

[DaMo]

Hehe, Despite the thing about Mongolia, how do u judge a country/territory dwelled by Non-Chinese should or not be under chinese rule today if it's not a key reason that China ever conquered it or was conquered by it or was conquered with it at the same time by a same foreign force in the history? For example, if it's not a important reason for china to claim tibet that Tibet and China were united into a common empire by Mongolia later by Manchuria, then what reason is for China to claim Tibet? I think, you would never account Tibetant's wills into it, hehe...

A simple change in leadership shouldn't entail the collapse of the entire country into its constituent provinces. There was no more reason for the Chinese Republic to release Tibet than for it to release any other province.

 

[alanta]

A simple change in leadership shouldn't entail the collapse of the entire country into its constituent provinces. There was no more reason for the Chinese Republic to release Tibet than for it to release any other province.

Hehe, Leadership, Mongol Khans, Ming Emperors, Manchu Rulers, Japanese and other foreign lords, Communist leaders... Do u now understand why your people were/are always the slaves of those rulers? who are Chinese or non-chinese, not important in fact... poor chinese, the slaves under the wills of the (former) emperor and (today) directors. the passing of thousand years even changed nothing...

 

[DaMo]

Hehe, Leadership, Mongol Khans, Ming Emperors, Manchu Rulers, Japanese and other foreign lords, Communist leaders... Do u now understand why your people were/are always the slaves of those rulers? who are Chinese or non-chinese, not important in fact... poor chinese, the slaves under the wills of the (former) emperor and (today) directors. the passing of thousand years even changed nothing...

I am not Chinese. And the Chinese have been "slaves" no more than have any other people living under kings and emperors, which was the vast majority of the world for a vast majority of history.

 

[shiroma]

Here's one that was posted not long ago:

japan and china gene advantage

Give it a go, jim!

The whole thing is in Chinese!

This is ideal for Jimbo! Now he doesn't even hafta translate his Japan-bashing into English!

So how about it, Jimbo? Damo?

That individual might have come from one of such forums without knowing that PRC, ROK and DPRK are the only countries in the world where Japan-hatred is the basis of their national identity.

They will keep coming here. They will not become enlightened with just exchanges of a few posts (imagine what could happen to their families&relatives in homeland if they change their mind.)

Regular posters seem uncomfotable with it, but I personally love them always defeating themselves with racist comments on Japanese gene.
Some people might eventually start wondering how much of their propaganda about the "atrocities" are facts or myths.

 

[noyhauser]

---- I thought this guy was being racist... and he isn''t--- no need to flame him.

 

[jim83]

japan forever in the island , haha .
japan forever!