Why are U.S forces still in Japan

[Vanguard_Vendetta]

Keep it on topic, or start your own thread.

WTH!!?if you want to delete our threads i made for hours and hours..why not delete the whole thing...i was beating the crap out of US ..its whole history and religion..you cant compare other peaplos history with theirs..and just when its runned down..you shove this in my face...everything here has to do with the US base..first we must describe USA first...then talk about the US base... the whole US base is all the meets the eye.. its politics..and peaplo like you dont have the right to interfere because of your lack of interpretation...

is this US way of victory by exclusion...this is not the first time..ive been to so many japan forums..and this happens.. you dare leave bossel's last post hanging there.. as it seems that i am the false one..this victory by exclusion thing is also happening to mendella, saddam hussien,zarqawi,osama bin laden,and all the freedom fighters of the world..

Miss_Apollo7..keep your mouth shut... i was describing so many things after this..you bring up this irrelavant obsolete statement..north korea the threat?the threat is america whether you like it or not.. north korea can do nothing..cant conquer nothin.. compare with your nuclear balistic tactics and the range of economic and influencial power and cold war tactics..WTH are you talking about..

americans righteous days are over..the world dont see you as a good guy anymore.. you are the threat...you are the hegaemony...as i have explained earlier.. Mandylion you american jerk..

i dont need to explain to anybody further,im leaving this thread because the unfairness of this wesite...i decribed everything and now its gone..who ever replies to me can GTH.. america is crap..what ever it does can go to hell...whether its basses is on japan ,s.korea,iraq,afganistan or any country in the world..theres only one reason for this neo-imperialist country..and that is US hegeamony..

the problem of the world is not n-korea,china,asia,al-qaeda,islam or any crap.. the problem is arrogant USA...and the racist european union... this countries who exploit every political situation for its own gain..and hide its racist and prejudice motives...

this long colonist imperialist thugs...who plunder and ravage the world..and turn it into a ghetto because of them...you want to help the world?give back what you stole from the world..if you wanted to help the world..you could already done it..but no you have your little racist groupings...you think you want to help us..but you just want to suck us out of our debt..and forever bow to you..so you can turn this whole world into your ***** zoo...

i suggest you all read history..from the time the birth of civilization..to the opium war.. to the imperialist colonialist..until today..and use your brain to figure out why WW2 was born...why japan had to go to war..and why the world is like this now... the truth is more than the meets the eye..unless your brain is more than it..

 

[Vanguard_Vendetta]

Keep it on topic, or start your own thread.

WTH!!?if you want to delete our threads i made for hours and hours..why not delete the whole thing...i was beating the crap out of US ..its whole history and religion is crap..you cant compare other peaplos history with theirs..and just when its runned down..you shove this in my face...everything here has to do with the US base..first we must describe USA first...then talk about the US base... the whole US base is all the meets the eye.. its politics..and peaplo like you dont have the right to interfere because of your lack of interpretation...

is this US way of victory by exclusion...this is not the first time..ive been to so many japan forums..and this happens.. you dare leave bossel's last post hanging there.. as it seems that i am the false one..this victory by exclusion thing is also happening to mendella, saddam hussien,zarqawi,osama bin laden,and all the freedom fighters of the world..

Miss_Apollo7..keep your mouth shut... i was describing so many things after this..you bring up this irrelavant obsolete statement..north korea the threat?the threat is america whether you like it or not.. north korea can do nothing..cant conquer nothin.. compare with your nuclear balistic tactics and the range of economic and influencial power and cold war tactics..WTH are you talking about..

americans righteous days are over..the world dont see you as a good guy anymore.. you are the threat...you are the hegaemony...as i have explained earlier.. Mandylion you american jerk..

i dont need to explain to anybody further,im leaving this thread because the unfairness of this wesite...i decribed everything and now its gone..who ever replies to me can GTH.. america is crap..what ever it does can go to hell...whether its basses is on japan ,s.korea,iraq,afganistan or any country in the world..theres only one reason for this neo-imperialist country..and that is US hegeamony..

the problem of the world is not n-korea,china,asia,al-qaeda,islam or any crap.. the problem is arrogant USA...and the racist european union... this countries who exploit every political situation for its own gain..and hide its racist and prejudice motives...

this long colonist imperialist thugs...who plunder and ravage the world..and turn it into a ghetto because of them...you want to help the world?give back what you stole from the world..if you wanted to help the world..you could already done it..but no you have your little racist groupings...you think you want to help us..but you just want to suck us out of our debt..and forever bow to you..so you can turn this whole world into your ***** zoo...

i suggest you all read history..from the time the birth of civilization..to the opium war.. to the imperialist colonialist..until today..and use your brain to figure out why WW2 was born...why japan had to go to war..and why the world is like this now... the truth is more than the meets the eye..unless your brain is more than it..

 

[Apollo]

Miss_Apollo7..keep your mouth shut... i was describing so many things after this..you bring up this irrelavant obsolete statement..north korea the threat?the threat is america whether you like it or not.. north korea can do nothing..cant conquer nothin.. compare with your nuclear balistic tactics and the range of economic and influencial power and cold war tactics..WTH are you talking about..

No, I won't keep my mouth shut, because I have the right to express my opinions. The thread said why the American forces were in Japan, and THIS was my opinion....You don't have to be rude. If you can't handle people who disagree with you, you don't belong in ANY forum.

 

[SkippyDaStudent85]

Our forces are still there because we are the bully and that is our playground...

I swear the only reason they are still there is because we are the only country to have had atomic weapons AND use them on another country... twice. A show of power that large would make anyone keep their mouths closed and accept occupation (though I do not agree with it at all... I swear the US just needs to come clean and admit it because everyone else already knows its true)

Just my opinion though...

 

[Apollo]

Our forces are still there because we are the bully and that is our playground...

I swear the only reason they are still there is because we are the only country to have had atomic weapons AND use them on another country... twice. A show of power that large would make anyone keep their mouths closed and accept occupation (though I do not agree with it at all... I swear the US just needs to come clean and admit it because everyone else already knows its true)

Just my opinion though...

Yes, I see your point Skippy.

You are right, but the reality is that the winner always conquers. The Japanese had to accept occupation after war, as it was part of the deal when signing the terms of surrender in Aug. 1945.

The US used the bomb twice to win the war (or keep the Russians out - depending on which school of thought among historians), and revisionist historians argue that the Japanese were forced to enter the ww2 because of the American boycotting Japan economically etc...

So, the United States of course is expansionist when looking at it that way. There is a good book about it called "Rise to Globalism" by S.A. Ambrose, which is about US history from being isolationist to globalist after ww2 and especially during the Cold War.

Especially during the Cold War the United States (and the Soviet Union) were very expansionist, taking over (or convincing) some countries to join them in their ideological war e.g. African countries with the Truman Four-Point Program, Arab countries, Asian countries etc..
Another scholar called Geir Lundestad also has written about the United States as "a dog" taking over the Scandinavian countries with the Marshall Plan.

ANyway, I think I am getting off-topic, but I just wanted to express my opinions on America being expansionist. Sorry guys!

 

[SkippyDaStudent85]

I read somewhere that looking back, many historians have argued that the bombs were not necessary for ending the war, but I guess we will never know... oh well

 

[quakerman360]

why does the us military still stay stationed in Japan. Well people like to think that they are going to be stationed for eternity but since the new war on terror the us is planning a huge realignment in europe. They are shifting at least divisions of troups form germany and moving theam into eastern europe to countris like poland and romania. Also concernain Japan the US Forces Headquarters located in japan will be relocated. Also 20 thousand marines at okinawa are aso be redeployed further south into austrial. This is to put troops closes to the counties that are outside the core. The core being countires that are modern and politically stable. The countries around austrial like cambodiai and indonesia are countries were the poople have little political freedom. also about Also if u want to understand teh changing face of the us military its not about big weapons systems like the crusador program which thankfully they canceled. That is becaseu wars are going to be taking place inside the gap which the gap is nations that are 3rd world countries like most of present day africa and the middle east and parts of south asia. Its been said but i will say it again china is not going anywere and they are not about to start a war over tawaiin. Thats just china talking out of its a$$. yea chiina may have one of teh biggest populatosn but it does not have the researces or money to equip an army that could go up against the us army which is the most advanced army. i mean what country can afford to give most every soldier a armor vest and nighvision googles and other such stragetic advantages. As i will say again we are in japan as a deterance to otehr nations who might want to wage war on japan which is a succesful country. al quida would love to creat some terrism and cause japan to fall into a recession. teh day of big nation wars are over due to globalization and the us is the only country thts cable of policing the world and ensuring retards like al quada are kept at bay. we are the only nation that can devote the resources to projects like this. and no iraq was not a major war casue we rolled in and defeated it in a matter of weeks not years. threre was no real fighting in Iraq it turned into a hotbed for all teh international terrist who wanted to get back at america to get a chanch. A good book i recomend is a book called The Pentagons New Map. It outlines where our military is heading in the 21 centery and how the face of war is changing . And it discusses the impact globalisatoin has on the face of war. The reason why we are pulling out so many troops from north korea becaseu the treat if there is ever one will be something like a missle attack not some big troop attack casue that they know they can't win at cause of our surpior trained and equiped soldirs. And why is an artifial island airport being build off cost of okinwana becsue the new laser plan by lockheed martin i belive will be stationed there. and this will be the deterance for kim jong. So u see our precence in Japan is on declince. There i said it yes i am convervative incase yall were woundering. troops figures and sources all from website http://www.bjreview.com.cn/200436/World-200436(C).htm by Zan JiFang. the anaylis by a political scicne major and history major thath would be me.

 

[DoctorP]

Also concernain Japan the US Forces Headquarters located in japan will be relocated. Also 20 thousand marines at okinawa are aso be redeployed further south into austrial. This is to put troops closes to the counties that are outside the core.

Please don't spread rumors on the web...this was being said about 8 years ago, and is still being said, but is very likely that it "will not" happen! There may be a training area built, but it will not be a "permanent" base!

Its been said but i will say it again china is not going anywere and they are not about to start a war over tawaiin. Thats just china talking out of its a$$. yea chiina may have one of teh biggest populatosn but it does not have the researces or money to equip an army that could go up against the us army which is the most advanced army. i mean what country can afford to give most every soldier a armor vest and nighvision googles and other such stragetic advantages.

Hmmm? do the rebels in Iraq have all of that? They are doing quite a good job against us! How about Bosnia? Back on Iraq...do you really think those fighters are rebels? Or could that really be Sadaam's army? Maybe that is why we (the US) were able to move all the way into Bagdad as we did...so that their forces could live to fight another day, causing havoc, keeping us on our toes! Ever thought of that?

we are the only nation that can devote the resources to projects like this. and no iraq was not a major war casue we rolled in and defeated it in a matter of weeks not years. threre was no real fighting in Iraq it turned into a hotbed for all teh international terrist who wanted to get back at america to get a chanch.

See above!

 

[Shooter452]

Very interesting. That really sounds like a specialists' knowledge. So half of the US forces in Japan are in Okinawa, and these are the ones that would protect Taiwan. Does the Japanese government also have to support them financially, and does Taiwan also contribute to the bill ?

I struggle with this belief.

While I admit that one does not usually ask the opinion of the sword about when it is to be drawn and at what target it is to be wielded, there are things about military operations that are a constant. I find that many of those are missing when it comes to an amphibious op-plan to send forces to Taiwan.

Assuming sufficient amphibious lift to send III MEF forces from Okinawa to Taiwan (a rash assumption since there are simply not enough gray-bottomed hulls out there in the WestPac Gator Navy to do the job at this time), one would expect some of the base-plate staff work to be pre-loaded. It takes more than a CIA area study to put the (reduced strength) 3d Marine Division on the ground there, gang.

It would help if, for example, if the hundreds of detailed maps needed to coordinate air, artillery, and naval gunfire support were present. I am talking about topographic relief maps, not road maps, and finely detailed artillery maps, along with aerial photographic surveys, and so forth. And these maps would be needed in the thousands since every battalion commander would need several and each company commander would need at least one for each area of operation he would enter during the mission, and so forth.

Yes, I assume that the maps and charts could be made available, however, comma, unlikely in the numbers needed. And we are talking about an operation that would need to be spring-loaded, ready to jump off the line of departure at a moment's notice--I assume that the PRC is not likely to send engraved invitations for this dance in advance. We'll have little time to prepare.

The officers and SNCO's will need time to orient their missions to those maps, to study key terrain features, identify choke points, essential mission objectives, and a whole host of other things that you will not learn about by reading your History 101 text. To prepare a massive mount-out, you really need the dog-eared, re-folded, grease-pencil-marked copies that have been used in op-plan meetings for months/years/what-have-you. I would expect this if the sole mission of III MEF was to prepare to retake/reinforce Taiwan. Or, even if it was the primary mission. IMHO, such is simply not the case.

And we have only started with maps. There are lots of other things to consider. I believe it is safe to say that few out here on this Forum have the least bit of knowledge about what it takes to pack out and go to war, excepting myself. I have participated in this art form too many times.

The obvious signs that III MEF is engaged in preparation to imminently ship out to Taiwan are absent. Certainly, there are some plans. There is probably general planning in existance for making a landing in Antartica, but nothing in the detail one would expect if Antartica was a primary objective.

Besides, unless you are utterly devoid of historical knowledge, everyone should know that FMF forces have been given the mission to go just about anywhere and do just about anything. They are not limited to one mission of any kind, and certainly not to the extent that it is the one for which they train. Far more activity has been expended for landings in and assistance of the ROK or even the PI.

At least this is how I see it.

 

[DoctorP]

Assuming sufficient amphibious lift to send III MEF forces from Okinawa to Taiwan (a rash assumption since there are simply not enough gray-bottomed hulls out there in the WestPac Gator Navy to do the job at this time), one would expect some of the base-plate staff work to be pre-loaded. It takes more than a CIA area study to put the (reduced strength) 3d Marine Division on the ground there, gang.

While I agree with your post, I think that you should know that there are other options of how they can get there:

The commercially crewed HSV is a catamaran-style ship owned by Austal Shipping and is leased by the U.S. government to transport III Marine Expeditionary Force Marines and their equipment to and from exercises and operations. Capable of carrying 970 troops and 500 short tons of cargo in a single trip, the HSV is a more efficient and cost-effective mode of transportation than airplanes,

made the first trip from Okinawa to Iwakuni, Japan, to Pyongtaek in just under 48 hours, including a five hour stop in Iwakuni to load and refuel, according to *****. The second trip, a direct route from Okinawa to Korea, took 30 hours.

Then there are also the LCAC (hovercrafts) that are in use now...so getting troops on the deck wouldn't actually take that long...and while I was still operational we deployed within 30 hours of notification and formed our plans while en route!...it's not fun, but it can and will be done!

 

[Shooter452]

I would never argue with you, Cee-Cee

But when you are talking about a whole MEF (one MarDiv, one Air Wing, and one FSSG), you are talking about something around 200,000 tons of shipping.

While I never personally loaded more than a BLT (battalion landing team) for a MAU/MEU, I have numerous friends in the 0400 trade who loaded not only II MEF through numerous East Coast ports, and also loaded the 25th Mech Inf Div (USArmy) out of Charleston, SC so they could play during the SW Asia war games in the Persian Gulf (Gulf Wars, Part I). The Army still cannot pack their own ships, so the logistics guys in the USMC stay busy.

First, it is not gross weight that is the limiting factor, it is deck and hold space. There is almost no limit to the capacity of sea lift when it comes to weight, but the bulk of the material and equipment that sucks up the capacity of the gray-bottomed hulls (as well as leased commercial hulls) in nothin' flat.

Second, the sea lift capacity of the entire Gator Navy would not carry one MEF in a single lift. And only a portion of that capacity is in the Western Pacific. The rest supports amphib groups on the East and West Coasts and it constantly exercised by on-going operations. Even if commercial available transport could triple the lift capacity of the US Navy, we would still fall short of the transportation capacity to lift III MEF (which due to down-grading is now known as MEF-Lite) for an amphibious invasion. Differing from landing exercises, an invasion would necessitate the complete 3d Marine Division on the first lift, leaving little hull space for the FSSG support structure and the Air Wing ground support elements that would need to have immediate follow-on behind the invasion force.

So, if the PLA storms all of Taiwan before we can get there, we will find it difficult to take it back with the forces and shipping capacity we have available.

Different opinions welcome.

LCAC's do lend an over-the-horizon landing capacity, but they are not really sea-going vehicles. And they take up the well-deck spaces of amphib ships like LSD's and LHA's, along with LCM's, LCU's, AAV's, etc.

 

[DoctorP]

I wasn't arguing against what you said, merely pointing out that we can move faster than you thought. Actually, because of prepositioning, we can have a division on deck within 48 hours of most "hot spots" with all of the necessary equipment. The HSV could be used to augment the division with another MEU size group. Not enough for a war, but enough to cause serious worry!

 

[Martialartsnovice]

@CC1: Remember the Movie, Team America World Police. Thats how the US government, sees itself. We cant keep ourselves out of everyones business. Oh well. I guess the US Gov. likes to find the firt on everyone else. Look at the news crews when they accompanied the UN inspectors in Iraq for WMD's. I never saw any Non-US Based Crews there with them. Just NBC and MSNBC and those guys.


@Vendetta Vanguard:
Hey Man, jsut cuz You have a grudge or some ill will, to the US gov, dont mean you need to run around screamin at people. If you dont like the Forum, go start your own, so you can do things as you see fit.

 

[Shooter452]

I wasn't arguing against what you said, merely pointing out that we can move faster than you thought. Actually, because of prepositioning, we can have a division on deck within 48 hours of most "hot spots" with all of the necessary equipment. The HSV could be used to augment the division with another MEU size group. Not enough for a war, but enough to cause serious worry!

*LOL*

I wouldn't think of arguing with you, dude! And forgive me if my optimism is not up to speed with yours, but as a practicing Roman Catholic, I always expect the worst. Things generally take longer, are harder, and are more screwed up than we expect...you know! *knowing wink*

Semper Fi, bro!

 

[Shooter452]

Final Comments

During the discussion over the use of US forces in WestPac, we strayed from the real issue: why are they still in Japan.

Again, from my point of view, there is no good reason to maintain them there. And while the Japanese government obviously wants them to remain, they are also eager to strip away the very training areas that make Okinawa (I can only speak for the USMC forces stationed there) a desired base.

While the Diet and the PM may be of two minds about their presence, I am not. I want them removed to a more receptive location. The problem is, where?

Western Australia? Great location, prepositioned to counter PRC moves in the area. Problem: the Canberra gov't ain't so receptive, and the locals are less so.

Guam? The advantage is that we own it now. Problems: toooooo small, inadequate training area, and the locals are equally hostile to the idea.

Hawaii? Same advantages and problems of Guam, but much farther away from the potential flash-points.

The Aleutain Islands? God! Have you ever been there? Put it the same catagory as the rest of Alaska! Bugs in the summer, ice in the winter! Who the hell would want to go there? And you want to send 25,000 of our son's and daughters there? Get real!!!!

Hey, I got an idea? How about Taiwan? If it is a strategic hot spot, you cannot get any closer to there than being there? And if the locals want to be protected, they sure would appreciate having III MEF on site! Of course, that would piss off the PRC to an order of magnitude, doncha think?

Well, regardless, it is time to move them out of Japan.

Which--as I stated on another thread--is a shame in some ways. Okinawa is a beautiful island, and it pales next to other places in Japan. But it is time.

 

[Martialartsnovice]

I have to agree, that the US does need to pull back the soldiers, and start concentrating more on the current affairs, of our country. President Bush has done okay in office, but he needs to think more about the Iraq operation, now that he knows hes on his second term in office. Hey I realized this, that America has had a few dynasties in the oval office, The Bush Dynasty, The Roosevelt Dynasty, and the Virginia Dynasty, it seems that alot of the presidents are born there.

@Shooter452
hey, ya know there could be a distinct advantage to moving the forces to the Aleutians, yeah I know that cold is a hard bugger, but think of it this way, they could perform firearms practice on the Alaskan mosquiteers that I hear are huge up there.

 

[Shooter452]

Mosquitoes?

Trust me, novice, they are! I know some Airedales up at Elmendorf AFB who claim that every now and they they'll pump 'em fulla JP-5 before they discover that they aren't Starlifters!

The Aleutians still lack enough space for sufficient training areas, and while the rest of Alaska would be available, it would only be available for half the year.

THe PI would be perfect, except that their gov't is too greedy and it has the same political stability of most Third World nations (zippidy-do-dah!) so the Dept of State would never approve.

Again, the most important thing is to get them off of Okinawa. What a pity.

 

[Martialartsnovice]

Yeah, its a shame, but America needs to be more careful, as to where we deploy and station our boys. Hey do they have any bases in Southeast Asia, such as Thailand, or Vietnam. I bet their governments would like to lease us some space for a trainig camp. I htink that it would be a mutual benefit, for both of the countries. It might help everyone involved.


P.S
Mosquitoes are awful big in the Bayou country, and I was told that the locals of Alaska, have a urban legend of how the Bayou mosquiters, interbred with hte native stock of Alaska. I was told this by a friend who lived 50 miles from Nome, and I still think it might be true.

 

[Shooter452]

Yeah, its a shame, but America needs to be more careful, as to where we deploy and station our boys. Hey do they have any bases in Southeast Asia, such as Thailand, or Vietnam. I bet their governments would like to lease us some space for a trainig camp. I htink that it would be a mutual benefit, for both of the countries. It might help everyone involved.

Surprising, but I am told that the Vietnamese have expressed an interest in hosting US bases.

In addition to the details (how long, where, and for how much, etc.) there is some past drama and bad blood that must be addressed. Unlike many others, this is of some importance to me, being a participant of the SEAsia War Games (2nd Place finisher) myself.

There is also a matter of political contradiction that the hard-liners in VN must work out for themselves, but interestingly if the Viets have not torn up all the concrete, US forces could actually re-occupy facilities that they built back in the Sixties!

Don't count on it.

 

[Martialartsnovice]

Yeah, I agree with you, but the question is as you said, was If they havent torn them up yet. I agree also that the US jas to address the issues that our reoccupation of those bases might cause. I think it could cause some major issues with the war survivors. Thailand, might actually be the safest place to attempt military placement, I dont know of any past transgressions in the last century, between Thailand and the US. I heard of possible plans, to construct bases in Africa, in Madagascar, or on the West Coast, of Africa. Dont we have them in Europe, or do we co-operate with the European Union.

 

[DoctorP]

Yeah, I agree with you, but the question is as you said, was If they havent torn them up yet. I agree also that the US jas to address the issues that our reoccupation of those bases might cause. I think it could cause some major issues with the war survivors. Thailand, might actually be the safest place to attempt military placement, I dont know of any past transgressions in the last century, between Thailand and the US. I heard of possible plans, to construct bases in Africa, in Madagascar, or on the West Coast, of Africa. Dont we have them in Europe, or do we co-operate with the European Union.

We already have a few bases in Thailand and we currently perform a couple of huge exercises with the Royal Thai Marines and their other forces each year. But the placement of Thailand isn't actually that great. We have a very good relationship with them, but I don't think that they would enjoy hosting a large number of forces!

 

[sabro]

I guess we're using a former B52 base at Utapao (90 miles s. of Bankok) as a hub for tsunami relief.

 

[Martialartsnovice]

Yeah, It would be a logical area to set up the hub, but who all were affected, I know Sri lanka, and India were hit by the Tsunami, but who else.

 

[phelonious]

mou juubun da to omou. kikoku shita hou ga ii da yo.

 

[Doc]

I'm a history major so there are many different speculations about why certains have happend the way they have. I could go on in an objective manner of why certain things took place, and what really happened. However, I'm afraid if I try to I'll get blown to smitherings just because I'm an American, and apparently from the attitude of some of you Americans are nothing but lairs even in history. No matter how much I would defend myself in stating that I've taken objective courses that have no biased on side of point of the view or the other, and are very deatiled in historical events and value, I would still be bashed to hell. In short rather than putting my two cents on the deal, I'm just going to keep my mouth shut.

Doc