Boy x boy - why is it sexy?

[Ma Cherie]

Hey, give Sweden time, they'll come around.

 

[Doc]

Hey, give Sweden time, they'll come around.

I know, I just find it funny that's all. I mean they're allowed to have hardcore sex on television, and people prancing around in their birthday suits, but that yaoi is wrong. What wrong with this picture? ☝

Doc

 

[Kinsao]

I like your picture Furan!

 

[Limonette]

I'm avoiding this thread because I want to answer isayhello but i've procrastinated so long that it was pages ago. I have a phobia about getting behind. But I soon will because it was an interesting post. As well as some other posts....I'm also avoiding a couple other threads too...*dread*

 

[Limonette]

That reminds me- I hope you can still give out reputation points for posts from....about a million years ago...I will get to it soon!

 

[isayhello]

And I thought you guys were very sexaually liberated people (especially with that Big Brother fiasco with the two contestants having sex on live television).

Doc

... you know ! Omg, Big Brother scandal known over the world.. ... how embarrassing.


You're right: We are sexually liberated, I think. (This is not me, this is the swedish people ☝ ☝ ) I mean, we have gay pride festivals and loads of porn and people most of the time accept most things that has got to do with sex and meh meh whatever. BUT: yaoi? No. People don't know, people don't want to know. First of all: They go: 'series?' 'Cartoons?' - 'why would I wanna check out two guys having sex in a cartoon?' - 'I'm not gay!' (and that phrase goes for both girls and boys) - 'They're gay!' ... yeah. People don't seem to understand. They think the fascination for this genre must have deep underlying reasons, and think (I) am in some sort of way twisted or have a twisted way of looking into sexual relationships. (my friends say this ) I mean - why would a GIRL wanna watch 'gay'-manga!? ... I think the swedish people havea a problem with understandig that, but also the whole 'cartoon' thing (as they referr to it)
I seriusly don't know why - if they think yaoi is strange (or wrong) , why then can people (as Doc said) have SEX in national television!? ... I'd rather see two non-real guys loving eachother, than watch a real, damn bodybuilder from god-knows-what-small-town making NON-sweet love to some blonde bimbo who wants to be a 'star'... ******* **** makes me mad! *angry*

Hey, give Sweden time, they'll come around.

Myeah... the day my mom buys me a yaoi series instead of a weekly magazine I'll know that sweden has come around
Mom: Here, the latest pairing in a new novel - it's popular among kids your age now, I hear. *handles over yaoi magazine*
Me: ☝ ☝ ☝ Yay! *starts reading*
...
No. No. wait. I don't think I'd want my mom to buy yaoi magazines for me...

Forget what I said! :?

Limonette: I'll be waiting. Don't panic!

 

[furan]

lol
awwww isay, dear.... you're such a dear

.... maye that's what inspired our bigbrotherscandles..... my sister came running inot my room to scream about what some girl did with a wine bottle.... i really scouldn't care less....

but yeah, yapi's arrounf here... it's just really underground... like... you get these kinds gettig into it because they go spacifically LOOKING for things that they think no-one else knows about....
ad then they get all pissed when they discover they know nothing about it compared the the 3 millon people of the world who are OBSESSED....

and... that fan art... it's Gravitation fan art btw... guy on the right - SHUICHI!!!!!
as he is in the MANGA, lol

thanks ^^; but... usually i can draw him a LOT better...

 

[furan]

wait... the links didn'#t work?

work fine for me.... try this:
http://www.teenhavenforums.com/Gravi Remix Scanlations/Remix 01/

 

[Ma Cherie]

I'll never forget the day I became interested in yaoi. But the strange thing is how I became interested in sexual relationships involving two guys. That happened when I began reading Anne Rice novels. She's famous for her homosexual tendencies. At the same time, I started watching anime and reading manga with boyXboy relationships. That sparked my interest.

Thanks for the link furan. And it's in English!

 

[isayhello]

... aww furan.. you're such a dear too! *tackle*

... big brother... I couldn't care less... as you said!

and... that fan art... it's Gravitation fan art btw... guy on the right - SHUICHI!!!!!
as he is in the MANGA, lol

thanks ^^; but... usually i can draw him a LOT better...

ohooo! Well, I really liked that fanart - nice nice! *has saved it to her computer* .. if you can draw him a lot better than that - I'd wanna see! *waits*

I'll never forget the day I became interested in yaoi. But the strange thing is how I became interested in sexual relationships involving two guys. That happened when I began reading Anne Rice novels. She's famous for her homosexual tendencies. At the same time, I started watching anime and reading manga with boyXboy relationships. That sparked my interest.

... really? I got into it something like that too. I mean, I was into Japan then too, and I'd noticed some parts of the japanese popular culture was sort of.. hinting a fascination for... boyxboy relationships, or just the bishonen. But then I read the french author Joucenar (sp?) - 'Hadrianus memories', about a roman emperor who falls in love with a young man (Antonius) and how their love story turns into tragedy.. good book, well written (it's NOT erotic in the way you might think, and quite complicated too). It was written in 1951 (or around that year I think) ... 'tis a good book. I read it, and found that the malexmale relationship - friends and lovers at the same time - fascinated me. and then, to my great happiness, I found that Japan has a WHOLE genre for this.

 

[Ma Cherie]

Yeah, that's so cool! I love literature with maleXmale relationships. I'm not into all the gay/lesbian type of literature. But something that's not directly related to it. That's why I love yaoi, it's not about homosexuality all that much.

 

[isayhello]

Exactly! Exactly! ... gay relationships don't really interest me.. Now, yaoi is something different. Difficult to explain, but meh! You understand! *wink wink*

 

[ladipeach]

Well, do you know why I like boy x boy?
Their story seems so sweet and ...wow!
Have you ever read Errie quierre?
It is a magna book and you must read it. It is sooooooo cool!

 

[furan]

*thinks* how th hell did i get into yaoi.....

umm.... gravitation was my first shonen-ai... but..... :?:?:?

hmmm..... *thinks hard*
.... i really have no idea when i got into guy on guy.... i don;t think i'm spacifically into it... just like it...
no more so than girl on gilr... or guy on girl...

well... except with guy on guy it's more.... 'forbiden' because i know i can't take part

i don;t know.... *is mind boggled*

lol, i'm glad the link worked for you guys!

that's the first volume of Gravitation Remix... you want the next ones, just go up a number on the end of 2001 on the url

hand draw by Maki Murakami herself, lol... she did a doujinshi to her own comic

 

[Limonette]

I like movies & stories with gay guys because I can easily put myself into one of their places. Maurice is one of the most romantic movies I've ever seen - I think it has alot to do with that it was in olden repressed times, and homosexuality was very taboo. So there was all this tension like, will they get together? Will they stay together - sooooo romantic and passionate and leaving you in suspense.

It's sort of the same thing with the aliens and humans in the tv show 'Roswell' - there was plenty of conflict and tension in the relationships between the humans and aliens, and will they, can they get together? I like that. So boy love or alien love - they're all hot. And I'm lucky since my name is Mindy and aliens are so drawn to me

I've read alot of gay literature, and the funny thing is - I didn't know many of the authors were gay before reading them. Like Christopher Isherwood - it took several books to figure out he was gay. They have alot of soul and I can relate alot to gay problems. Truman Capote is one of my very fave writers. Mishima too. But it's interesting that the boyXboy doesn't necessarily have to be gay. By the way I rented a new samurai boy&boy movie I think hope it's good.

 

[Limonette]

It's nice discovering how accepted this boyXboy thing is in Japan and with you guys (girls I mean). I always laughed to myself because in America it's guys who are supposedly so into the girlXgirl thing. Nobody talks about girls liking boys liking boys - so it's a good thread - people here can understand how I feel. That must mean I'm not crazy after all. Either that or you're all crazy too

 

[Limonette]

Ok at last I answer isayhellos post - prepare yourselves for a marathon post. I still haven't got the hang of the quote thing, (argh!) so isayhellos quotes are in quotations, and the interviewees as well. Hope it makes sense.

isayhello:

"The japanese are.. in some ways.. very consevative, and (I think Ma Cherie said this) they'd frown upon young people kissing, or even holding hands, in public. But at the same time, they have this ultra hard core porn industry....

I love this wierd mixture of old culture, old virtues/conservatism and new strange hard core porn. There's... so much I don't understand that I really do wanna understand!"

me: I totally agree that's why I find Japan sex so interesting. It's a puzzler. A mystery that I need to figure out, if only to satisfy my curiousity. Yeah I thought I could ask Japanese people about it, but I always get too embarrassed and we end up talking about the weather... It's nice that you people have these discussions.

isayhello:

"(Like, what's with the damn tentacle porn!? WHO finds a girl being raped by a giant, green octopus sexy!!?)"

I found an interview with Toshio Maeda who does tentacle manga. I don't get it either. But he said:

"at that time (pre-Urotsuki Doji) it was illegal to create a sensual scene in bed. So I just created a creature. (His tentacle) is not a (penis) as a pretext. I could say, as an excuse, this is not a (penis), this is just a part of the creatures. You know, the creatures, they don't have a gender. A creature is still a creature. So it is not obscene - not illegal.

Drawing intercourse was, and is, still illegal in Japan. That is our big headache: to create such a sensual scene. We are always using any type of trick."

One of the first odd things I read was that the film "In the Realm of the Senses" is censored in Japan, it's country of origin. I just thought it odd, and they have all this porn, and yet that is illegal to show. But on the other had, maybe that's spurred on more imagination. After all like they say, sometimes it's sexier not to show everything, but to suggest things.

I still don't understand the appeal of tentacle sex though. However, octopuses are supposed to be great lovers, and I wouldn't mind coming back as one in my next life. Even so, I'm not at all attracted by the octopus.

One more thing I thought interesting that Maeda said - he was asked why the high school girl was a common victim. He said:

"(sighs) Personally I don't like it. In Japan, so many maniac people like the innocent type of young girl. It is their taste. It is almost criminal. I don't like for some young girl to be kidnapped or raped. I don't like that style. I like a style based on a Japanese samurai or ninja falling in love with a regular girl."

and he says "Personally, I like a conservative lady - innocent, old-fashioned type."

isayhello:

"The slave/master thing is very popular. It's got to do with s/m, and is also part of the whole rape thing. Many people (especially guys when it comes to rape) like feeling in charge. Maybe they feel they're being looked down upon in everyday life, and need to feel like 'masters' at least in the bedroom...? :?"

I separated the slave master (victim is willing participant) thing from the rape (victim not willing) thing. It seems that people who like one don't necessarily like the other, from what I've heard. I have a hard time with people telling me what to do, so count me out! It would be like that movie where "the Servant" (Dirk Bogarde) controls the weak master. Although I don't like telling people what to do either. I'd be a happy anarchist. But they do seem related in a way. And I read this interview a long time ago with a therapist who said that the percentage of his male patients who were masochistic was the same as his female patients. I think it's more accepted or expected that women are that way, but alot of guys like being slaves, rape victims and all that. Just look at that wacky gay scene. Not that most gays like that but...

I also think you're right about those wanting to feel like masters being ones looked down upon. It seems that way anyway.

isayhello:

"Adults in diapers... hah! I've heard about that too... A little... scary... But then again, there are some really really really strange fetish stuff in Japan... *thinks about it and dies*"

Lol I die with you, hehe. It's very interesting but it weirds me out sometimes. Though I mean, sometimes it seems ok for them, as long as they're not hurting anyone, even tho I don't get it.

isayhello:

"Ha-ha. But Japan does have a huge obsession with 'kawaii' - everything that's cute. And that's not only school girls liking Hello Kitty. That's everyone! It's the same - girls trying to act all cute too. I read (somewhere, wont quote) that Hello Kitty was sort of like the 'ideal' for japanese people. She's little, she's cute, and her expressionless face is supposed to come from old japanese female ideals; big eyes, no mouth. She's basically cute, and harms no one with strange ideas or dangerous comments."

That's so funny. You describe the cuteness so well isayhello.

isayhello:

"Yeah, and there's recently been problem with the 'men-liking-underaged-girls' thing in Japan. In the early 90s, the main sex-symbol was the 'oeru' - the OL - the Office Lady - a typical japanese office working girl in her 20s. Then, over time, the youger girls - the upper highschool girls - became popular, the school uniform became a sex symbol, and now, there's even been porn magazines focusing on elementary school girls It's terrible..."

That's very interesting that it's a recent thing. It makes me wonder the reason why. Is it because there's more underage porn and people are exposed to it? Or is there some underlying psychological reason? I may never know.

isayhello:

"I see nothing wrong with blood and gore" [/QUOTE]

Oh well, I didn't really mean blood and gore, because I don't mind that. More the type of blood and gore - I'm just not into torture for it's own sake. I watched a bit of Ichi the Killer in the middle, and it was a bit boring. I guess I assumed that torture was the main thing about the movie. I think torture is an aquired taste perhaps. I think it's good and shocking when done effectively as part of a story, although I used to be quite squeamish about it, and still am if done well.

I'm not a gore fan, like there are whole magazines dedicated to the art of gore, but since I'm fond of horror and action movies, it can have it's place. As for blood - I don't like real violence or real blood, as in the tv news. But in fiction - I'll never forget that Samurai film where the one slices off the head of the other and gallons of blood comes spewing out the top of his head. And in Throne of Blood the arrows - Kurasawa had a way with bloody dramatization. That I like. Once, after reading alot of Mishima, I had a beautiful dream about 100 Japanese men using swords to cut off the heads of 100 handsome Japanese soldiers. It was a beautiful dream... Obviously was reading MUCH too much Mishima at the time. LOL

 

[Limonette]

If anyone can give me how to quote people so it shows up in a box like everyone elses it would be great. I'm so ignorant about such things...sigh....

 

[MajideSaiaku]

In response to the thread author, that first theory was a good one, could be true.


As for my personal thoughts on boy on boy, i dont personally see the appeal, and it is interesting to note the large female interest in it, infact ide say that media and literature about it is activly targetted at them.


In my opinion, for my own tastes, so, no worries or anything, boy on boy i only want to see if it is a key part of a character or two within the context of a story i am reading or watching, i wont read or watch a movie thats whole "thing" is that its got gay folk in it.


I think it also helps the few actual homosexual individuals find comfort with their sexuality, if they have been ashamed or feeling lost and worried and all that, it can help give them a way to feel relaxed and comfortable and normal with how they were born.

So in conclusion, i dont feel strongly in either direction for or against boy-on-boy, and recognise its usefulness for the young boys (and maybe girls) who are homosexual and are having problems comming to terms with it.

 

[Limonette]

I misspelled Kurosawa's name - shoot me now please!!!! (worshipping the ground he directs on)

 

[Kinsao]

Thank you very much for the link Furan (I feel a bit late with that now after all that intense postageness!)

Good points all round.

How did I get interested in boy x boy? uhhhh... this thread....

And quotations: at the beginning of the bit you want to quote, you type [ QUOTE ], and at the end you type [ /QUOTE ] - except, don't put any spaces between the square brackets and the characters (I had to do it like that otherwise I'd just end up quoting the bit in the middle ) Hey presto!

 

[isayhello]

Wow - Limonette and all others! A lot of reading in this thread... and.. *needs a lot of time to write a post for this one* ... I should be doing something else right now *meaning homework* ... but heck!

Prepare for major-ultimate-super-ultra-megasize-posting NR.1!
*claps hands together* Let's startoooo!

(about sex in Japan)
me: I totally agree that's why I find Japan sex so interesting. It's a puzzler. A mystery that I need to figure out, if only to satisfy my curiousity. Yeah I thought I could ask Japanese people about it, but I always get too embarrassed and we end up talking about the weather... It's nice that you people have these discussions.

I think the reason I (and you and a lot of other people) are interested in the japanese ways of sex (err... not talking about the actual techniques of sex as much as the differnt views on sex as a subject ... but then again... techniques can be pretty interesting too... ☝ ) ANYWAYS! - the reason I am interested in the japanese sexual culture (wow, sexual culture, that's something... are there people actually doing research on sexual cultures? *pictures herself doing just that in the future* ... *hits herself* I never get to the point!) - the reason I am fascinated by the japanese ways of sex is that it's very different (already discussed) but also; that it's quite taboo.

As you mention; speaking about sex with japanese you barely know (and actually, japanese you DO know) can be a tough task. Usually, you don't. The weather proves a safer topic for discussion - besides, that's not just the japanese being not very keen on discussing sex. I mean - bring up the subject of strange sexual fetishes with ANY group of people and I can promise you there will be tension (ok, ok, there might be SOME groups of people who wouldn't mind... )

But sex has been, and is still in many ways, sort of taboo in JApan (at least more taboo than in Sweden, of that I'm sure). And that is why, I think, there is also such a massive industry for the same; sex - or porn. If you can't have something, and want it really bad, once you get your hands on it - you might want it soo much you'll exaggerate it. And as strange as that might have sounded - I did NOT mean the japanese get too little sex, and all turn out perverted - nononon NO NO! Definitely not. (although, it has been discussed that the japanese marriages include very little, or none sex - which means a profit for hostess/host bars) - I think the whole taboo-thing on the sex subject, that has existed in Japan, shaped the japanese peoples image of sex; - As something exciting (well, that's not strange, it IS exciting! ) as something secret, but at the same time as something that can give you a chance to let go of your morals and/or restrictions. For examlpe, many swedish people I've discussed this with all say they think the japanese have a very childish view on sex, and on erotics, but then at the same time enjoy very wierd sexual adventures in Love Hotels and have some of the most twisted sex-fetishes in the world.

I'd say, it seems as if - even though some japanese fetishes are very very extreme, the japanese have still kept their sort of... liking for the innocent. Some would argue (my mom ) that this makes the japanese even more perverted - as they're into the whole lolita-innocense, but at the same time would loove to watch the very same tiny lolita getting raped by an octupus... (please, I'm NOT talking about ALL japanese people - so no offense. I discuss this because I am very fascinated, and not at all disgusted, by this phenomena, and am probably a pervert myself - for all I know... *paranoid*)

The same goes for the strange and very-difficult-to-understand fascination for panties. I mean; there are tons of homepages filled with paparazzi-shots of girls accidentally letting their skirt slip up to show the panties, and even MORE actual porn-pics where the girl in question has been asked to simply let her panties show vaguely from under her skirt. This sort of sneak-and-peek porn is majorly popular in Japan. I know of no other country where this porn is popular among the great masses, this sort of fetish is usually only common amongst pedophiles. But in Japan, the normal, non-phedophilistic man can find this sort of thing amazingly sexy.

Jeez, I don't even know why the hell I'm writing this - everyone probably started scrolling by this post about a million years ago... ☝

I found an interview with Toshio Maeda who does tentacle manga. I don't get it either. But he said:

"at that time (pre-Urotsuki Doji) it was illegal to create a sensual scene in bed. So I just created a creature. (His tentacle) is not a (penis) as a pretext. I could say, as an excuse, this is not a (penis), this is just a part of the creatures. You know, the creatures, they don't have a gender. A creature is still a creature. So it is not obscene - not illegal.

Drawing intercourse was, and is, still illegal in Japan. That is our big headache: to create such a sensual scene. We are always using any type of trick."

One of the first odd things I read was that the film "In the Realm of the Senses" is censored in Japan, it's country of origin. I just thought it odd, and they have all this porn, and yet that is illegal to show. But on the other had, maybe that's spurred on more imagination. After all like they say, sometimes it's sexier not to show everything, but to suggest things.


Lol I die with you, hehe. It's very interesting but it weirds me out sometimes. Though I mean, sometimes it seems ok for them, as long as they're not hurting anyone, even tho I don't get it.

Thanks for that quoting! Very interesting indeed - interesting to hear views from someone who's actually making the tentacle porn...

(About how the age of the girls is getting younger) That's very interesting that it's a recent thing. It makes me wonder the reason why. Is it because there's more underage porn and people are exposed to it? Or is there some underlying psychological reason? I may never know.

I couldn't say what the reason is. I think there are many. One thing I've noticed, though, is that japanese people, and the whole of japanese society, has a huge obsession for youth. And that's not just in the sexual context - but when it comes to everything! People are obsessed with being young, girls get depressed when they're 20 because then they say they're all Oba-sans (grandmothers) - youth is celebrated as something beautiful, and the most valuable thing in Japan. This might be one of the reasons there's a slightly 'pervy' fascination for highschool girls (and growning younger).

I misspelled Kurosawa's name - shoot me now please!!!!

... aww... I wont kill you.. we all make mistakes...

Nobody talks about girls liking boys liking boys - so it's a good thread - people here can understand how I feel. That must mean I'm not crazy after all. Either that or you're all crazy too

... you're not crazy? ... I'd rather say we're all crazy! ... but then again, nah! I, for one, am completely sane.
...
...
... ☝
*starts dancing on the table wearing a clown-mask*
Did I mention I was sane?

...
About the quotations - there's also a 'quick' button in the 'post a reply-edit section'. Above the space where you're typing, there's loads of little icons for formatting the text and stuff. Well, there's one right furthest to the right - one that looks like one of those small bubbles that come in cartoons when they say something (and I don't know what they're called, did you notice!?) Anyways, click it, and the copy-paste the thing you want to quote.
You can ALSO just press directly while you're reading a post; in the lowest right corner of that post, there should be a button that says 'quote' - press and go!

*faints*

 

[Limonette]

Thanks very much for that info on quoting Kinsao - now I can quote proper -YIPPPEEE!

isayhello - we could be the Kinsey style sex researchers of Japan *imagines us with doctors coats, glasses, pens and notepads in hand* What a fun profession that would be!

I actually did have a guy from Japan that I discussed sex with a long time ago - and I lost his address He had a thing for women in police uniforms. I miss him - he was very imaginative, and tasteful and nice. I can't remember how we got started on discussing sex, but it does seem so awkward to bring up.

I gotta finish answering later...not good to get started posting this early in the day...mata ne

 

[furan]

.... did i mention that the basic reason why Japan accepts homosexual relationships more so than other contries is, because of the seclusion, they 'grew up' - as it were - without Christianity? :?

 

[Ma Cherie]

Yes, that's true furan. At least I believe so. :?