Japan IN Asia VS Japan AND Asia

It's not a question of guts....unlike uncivilized our neighbours - being barking dogs.
As far as I know, it has been moving ahead. Japan already concluded EPA (more than FTA) with Thai, Indonesia, India, Singapore, maybe Vietnam. Regarding the rest of the countries, it will depend on negotiation, I think.
But of course NO POLITICS. 🙂

Well, I admit the description "lack of guts" was a bit unpatriotic. However, it is true that political action has been neglected by Japan ever since their statesmen decided to stick to Yoshida Doctrine and devoted to maximizing economic gains.

Anyway, we can extend the effort Astroboy mentioned to China and Korea and establish a regional economic bloc!
 
Well, I admit the description "lack of guts" was a bit unpatriotic. However, it is true that political action has been neglected by Japan ever since their statesmen decided to stick to Yoshida Doctrine and devoted to maximizing economic gains.

Don't worry. Japan remain unchanged.

Anyway, we can extend the effort Astroboy mentioned to China and Korea and establish a regional economic bloc!

Carry on! 🙂
 
See, different versions of history are believed in different nations. Americans will flatly object to such a claim. Japanese do not have guts to challenge China and Korea because they are afraid of the damage to their economy.

Just ask British posters here about a bit different point of views on the (US) War of Independence in their history textbook. I've never heard of any claims, "WE SHOULD TEACH BRITONS A LESSON". Why don't you object to the views? Americans also have the same view, different historical interpretation in different nations.

Anyways, this thread is about Asia.

Fortunately, the Chinese Premier, Wen Jiabao, addressed his great speech in his last visit to Japan. And his great speech was aired in China as well.

He enlightened me a lot, because he clearly mentioned that the Chinese government as well as its people positively recognize what Japan did to their country after the both parties normalized diplomatic relations.

4.ツ坂?倪?ーテッ窶ー窶ーツ静?
ツ(1ツ)ニ竹ニ辰ニ停?愴暖
ツ 窶?ヒ彙窶堙ー窶堙坂?堋ウ窶堙昶?堙や?堙つ、窶愿コ窶吮??ナ?テ披?堙娯?氾ーナスj窶堙娯?禿「窶佚ィ窶堙嫁陳セ窶ケy窶堋オ窶堋ス窶堋ェツ、窶愿コ窶怒窶伉、窶堙娯?佚披?忸窶「\窶督セ窶堙ーツ「ツ静鞘?ケテ俄?廬窶堙俄?「]窶ーツソツ」窶堋オ窶堙??堋「窶堋ス窶彑窶懌┐窶堋ェ窶卍坂?禿壺?堋ウ窶堙ェ窶堙ゥツ。窶堋サ窶堙個湘」窶堙?、窶愿コ窶吮??ナ?テ滅淡窶堙娯?敖ュ窶弩窶堙娯?「テサナ津シ窶堙 窶堙や?堋「窶堙?、窶佛?ナ津敖信窶版?窶堙娯?伉敖進窶懌┐窶堙個鞘?敘陳エ窶伉・窶堙ー窶凖アナスツヲ窶堋オツ、ツ静ュ窶板ェ窶廬ナ津敘鍛ナ?テ滅淡窶堙個新窶堋ス窶堙遺?ケテ??禿岩?堙ーツ静倪?堙ィナ?J窶堋ュ窶堋ス窶堙溪?堙可、ニ但ニ淡ニ但窶ケy窶堙鯛?「ツスヒ彗窶堙??敖ュ窶弩窶堙娯?堋ス窶堙溪?堙俄?堙??堙?窶堙俄?忤窶氾坂?「ツア窶慊ャ窶堋オ窶堙??堋「窶堋ア窶堋、窶堙?津??堙 窶堋ゥ窶堋ッ窶堙??凖キ窶堙淒?窶。窶堙≫?堋スツ。
ツ(2ツ)窶ー窶ーツ静?窶堙個最毒スq
ツ(ニ辰ツ)窶認ツ湘ョ窶堙??ケツヲ窶氾坂?堙娯?堋ス窶堙溪?堙可、窶卍キ窶堋「窶愿コ窶吮??窶認ツ好窶堙娯?氾ーナスj窶堙娯?彖窶慊昶?堙ーナステウ窶堋ッナ恥窶堋ャツ、窶敖ュ窶波窶堋キ窶堙ゥ窶「K窶牌窶堋ェ窶堋?窶堙ゥ窶堙??堋オ窶堙?、窶板シツ坂?倪?堋ェナ津昶?堋「窶堙固弛ナ陳ア窶堙ーナ?w窶堙堕坂?。窶堙≫?堙??堋ォ窶堋ス窶堋ア窶堙??堙ー窶氾。ナスツヲ窶堙ー窶慊・窶堙懌?堋ヲツ湘絶?ーテョツ。
ツ(ニ陳債)窶認ツ湘ョ窶堙??ケツヲ窶氾坂?堙娯?堋ス窶堙溪?堙可、窶「sツ幸窶堙按催芝椎ス窶堙娯?氾ーナスj窶廬窶ケツウナ単窶堙ー窶伉最?窶。窶堋オ窶禿≫?ケL窶堋キ窶堙ゥ窶「K窶牌窶堋ェ窶堋?窶堙ゥ窶堙??堋オ窶堙?、窶吮??ツ坂?伉人窶堋ェ窶愿コ窶怒ツ人窶堙ーツ鞘?「窶堋ッ窶堋スナスO窶堙や?堙姑竪ニ痴ニ箪ツーニ檀窶堙ーツ湘絶?ーテョツ。窶愿コ窶怒ツ青ュ窶「{窶堙 ナスw窶慊アナステ停?堙娯?氾ーナスj窶禿「窶佚ィ窶堙俄?佚寂?堋キ窶堙ゥ窶佚披?忸窶「\窶督セ窶堙ー窶吮??ツ坂?伉青ュ窶「{窶堙?人窶督ッ窶堙債静鞘?ケテ俄?廬窶堙俄?「]窶ーツソ窶堋キ窶堙ゥ窶堙??堋オ窶堋スツ湘」窶堙?、窶愿コ窶怒窶伉、窶堋ェ窶堋サ窶堙ェ窶堙ーナステ?ツ催帚?堙個行窶慊ョ窶堙?スツヲ窶堋キ窶堋ア窶堙??堙ーツ心窶堋ゥ窶堙ァナ?テウ窶転窶堋キ窶堙ゥナス|窶敖ュナ陳セツ。
ツ(ニ地ツ)窶認ツ湘ョ窶堙??ケツヲ窶氾坂?堙娯?堋ス窶堙溪?堙可、窶愿コ窶吮??ナ?テ滅淡窶堙娯?敖ュ窶弩窶堙娯?「テサナ津シ窶堙ーツ青ウ窶堋オ窶堋ュ窶拂ヒ?ャ窶堋キ窶堙ゥ窶「K窶牌窶堋ェ窶堋?窶堙ゥ窶堙??堋オ窶堙?、窶吮??ツ坂?倪?堙娯?ーテシナ?vナ?J窶「テコ窶堙??ケテ溪?佚」窶ーツサナ椎。ツ静昶?堙債、窶愿コ窶怒窶堋ゥ窶堙ァ窶堙固スx窶ー窶。窶堙ー窶卍ク窶堋「窶堋ス窶堙?窶堙娯?堙 窶堋?窶堙ィツ、窶吮??ツ坂?伉人窶督ッ窶堙坂?堋「窶堙や?堙懌?堙??堙?窶添窶堙ェ窶堙遺?堋「窶堙??堋オ窶堋スツ湘」窶堙?、ヒ?遺?ーツコ窶堙固陳エ窶伉・窶堙ー窶凖アナスツヲツ。1ツ)窶佛?ナ津敖信窶版?窶堙ー窶伉敖進窶堋オツ、窶禿ア窶伉ゥ窶堙ー窶版。ツ行窶堋キ窶堙ゥ窶堋ア窶堙?。ツ(ナスO窶堙や?堙個青ュナスツ。窶廬窶「ツカツ鞘?倪?堙俄?凖ィ窶堙溪?堙ァ窶堙ェ窶堋スツ鞘?敘陳エ窶伉・窶堙ー ナ陳オナステァ窶堋オ窶堋ウ窶堋ヲ窶堋キ窶堙ェ窶堙篠、窶板シツ坂?佛?テ滅淡窶堙債鞘?。窶卍イ窶堙俄?楼ツ進ツ。窶佚、ヒ徘窶禿「窶佚ィ窶堙俄?堙や?堋「窶堙?慎ツ重窶堙遺?佚寂?ーナセ窶堙ーナ?テウ窶転ツ)ツ。2ツ)窶佚・窶ケテ??堙ー窶抂窶慊ェ窶堙俄?冰窶堋「窶堙?、ツ渉ャヒ?吮?堙ーナスc窶堋オ窶佚・窶慊ッ窶堙俄?堙や?堋ュ窶堋ア窶堙?。3ツ)窶「ツス窶懌┐ナ津敘鍛ツ、窶ケツ、窶慊ッ 窶敖ュ窶弩窶堙ー窶禿塲スw窶堋キ窶堋ア窶堙?。4ツ)窶督「窶藩??堙俄?禿壺?堙ーナ津シ窶堋ッツ、ナ津ー窶板ャ窶堙ー窶ケツュ窶ーツサ窶堋キ窶堙ゥ窶堋ア窶堙?。5ツ)窶ケツヲ窶ケc窶堙ー窶督ァツ静壺?堙俄?堋オツ、窶卍ァツ静ュ窶堙俄?板ァ窶堋ソナ津シ窶堋ゥ窶堋、窶堋ア窶堙?。
外務省: 温家宝中国国務院総理来日(概要)

For grapefruit and bammbamm&pebbles
窶吮??窶愿コ窶溺ナ津ーツ青ウツ湘ュ窶ーツサヒ?遺?藩?,窶愿コ窶怒ツ青ュ窶「{ヒ彗窶愿コ窶怒领导ツ人窶伉スナスナクツ催?#21382;ナスj问题ツ湘」窶「\窶督セ态窶忸ツ,ナ津カ开ツ渉ウ认ツ侵窶板ェ窶コテウ对ナステウナ?Qツ坂?倪?「\ナスツヲツ深ツ債鞘?敖スツ湘依彗窶慊ケナク]ツ。对ツ最クツ,窶吮??ツ坂?伉青ュ窶「{ヒ彗ツ人窶督ッ给窶能积极评ヒ愿?。窶ーテ、 们窶卍渉心ナ?テウ窶転ツ,窶愿コ窶「テサヒ??#23454;际ツ行动窶佚?#29616;窶猫关窶「\态ヒ彗ツ渉ウ诺ツ。窶吮??窶愿コヒ彗则两窶藩慊,窶徑则俱伤ツ。实现两ツ坂?伉人窶督ッツ青「窶佚」窶認ツ好ツ,ナ?ツョ窶牢窶「窶楪坂?。历ナスj窶卍ェ窶板ャヒ彗两ツ坂?伉人窶督ッナ禿??転ツ,窶禿ァツ青・亚ツ洲ヒ彗ツ坂??#38469;ナステ絶?ーテッ窶廬 ナクuツ静佛?テコ盼ツ。
窶吮??ツ坂?倪?廬窶ーテシナ?v开窶「テコヒ彗现窶佚」窶ーツサナ椎。设ツ,窶慊セ窶愬セ窶板ケ窶愿コ窶怒ツ青ュ窶「{ヒ彗ツ人窶督ッ窶廬ナスxナスツ昶?膿帮ツ鞘?「ツ,对ツ最ク窶吮??ツ坂?伉人窶督ッ窶ーi远窶「s窶ーテッ窶添记ツ。
中华人民共和国外交部
 
He enlightened me a lot, because he clearly mentioned that the Chinese government as well as its people positively recognize what Japan did to their country after the both parties normalized diplomatic relations.

I think ... Chinese have increasingly been realizing that China is hitting the wall in these days.

When The Olympic Flame traveled across the West (Europe, USA and Australia), they had shocked to see strong protest against China over Tibet issue in those countries. Of course, it was just a matter relating to human right issue in China, but in Chinese point of view, they must have been embarrased as Western media viewed China as "uncivilized".

Maybe they remembered the times when China was colonized by UK, France, German (and Japan) some 100 years ago. At that time, Chinese pride was seriously damaged as they were treated as "uncivilized".

Compared to the West, Asian countries (including Japan) were relatively calm about the human right issue in China. So, maybe they want to see something common with neighbouring countries. 😊
 
Just ask British posters here about a bit different point of views on the (US) War of Independence in their history textbook. I've never heard of any claims, "WE SHOULD TEACH BRITONS A LESSON". Why don't you object to the views? Americans also have the same view, different historical interpretation in different nations.

Anyways, this thread is about Asia.

Fortunately, the Chinese Premier, Wen Jiabao, addressed his great speech in his last visit to Japan. And his great speech was aired in China as well.

He enlightened me a lot, because he clearly mentioned that the Chinese government as well as its people positively recognize what Japan did to their country after the both parties normalized diplomatic relations.

Interestingly, there seems to be a slight change in nuances between the Japanese summary and the Chinese speech.

The Chinese version says "中国的改革开放和现代化建设,得到了日本政府和人民的支持与帮助" China's reform and opening-up to the world and its modernization received support and help of the Japanese government and its people.

The Japanese summary, on the other hand, "中国の改革開放と近代化建設は、日本からの支援を頂いたものであり" is more like "China's reform and opening-up to the world and its modernization has its basis on the support from Japan." The Japanese version seems to have enhanced the role of Japan in the development of modern China. I wonder why it was not translated as "中国の改革開放と近代化建設は、日本からの支援を頂きました".

Also the summary posted on the Japanese government site omitted to mention that the Chinese side urged the Japanese side to stick to the policy of not possessing military forces.
 
Interestingly, there seems to be a slight change in nuances between the Japanese summary and the Chinese speech.
...

The Japanese version is just a summary as you kindly pointed out.
Just google the full speech translated into Japanese.

I understand not all Chinese people would agree with his speech or renouncing the war reparation.
But if you don't agree with them, first you should protest the ex-Chairman Mao or Mr. Wen.

the policy of not possessing military forces.
About the military stuff, it is you who distorted the sentences, or Japan-China relations after 1972.

The both parties agreed no hegemonic military powers in Asia or the world.

Don't forget that Japan had already had its Self Defense Force as well as the Japan-US defense agreement and that there was the time when even Deng xiao ping encouraged Japan to spend more money on our military force.
 
I understand not all Chinese people would agree with his speech or renouncing the war reparation.


It's never a subject of great concern to ordinary Chinese stooges,only 窶「ツョツ静 ( 粪ツ静 literally means "****-youth" or "idiotic youth", same pronunciation) act out according to their government anti-Japan propaganda.
 
Ah .. I see,Koreans can forger their names to Japanese ones permissible by law.:eek:

No wonder,online Koreans have been telling us that Japanese who look like Korean are actually ' Korean people 😌 ' not real Japanese.
 
We keep thinking of Japan's relations with Asian nations as if Japan is not part of Asia. It is, and should be more actively involved in regional affairs. Too many Japanese still feel more comfortable in Western countries than in Asia. I know that is changing but we need better relations with our neighbors, not just with countries

Asian nation's sense are still in the relation of tribute or tse-feng 冊封 system except Japan
冊封体制 - Wikipedia
Tribute - Wikipedia

their value is always "to win or to lose" that is, man or slave
If Japan apologizes, they are heard like this " you are a victor".
Sounding in sweetness in their minds might be natural.
A further apology is requested.
It has gotten poisoned like the drug offender.

Politically apologizing to South Korea is foolish. ...
China is good about that...
China calls, shouts and threatens. South Korea.
South Korea shudders, and grovels.
And, they follow China......

I think The foreigner doesn't know that and not understand
 
Maybe they remembered the times when China was colonized by UK, France, German (and Japan) some 100 years ago.


China was carved-up as ' sphere of influence ' not colonization.

Actually,it was Japan officially colonized by America & other Western powers between 1945-1952,as was colonization of Korea peninsula by Japan Empire.
 
China was carved-up as ' sphere of influence ' not colonization.
Actually,it was Japan officially colonized by America & other Western powers between 1945-1952,as was colonization of Korea peninsula by Japan Empire.

LOL. This is useless discussion. But it is obvious that Chinese are still mentally wounded by their modern history - colonized & enslaved. 😊
 
LOL. This is useless discussion. But it is obvious that Chinese are still mentally wounded by their modern history - colonized & enslaved. 😊
True. Japanese were lucky that it was Americans who occupied the islands. Little suffering arose out of the occupation. It would have been an extremely traumatic experience, had the Soviet Union occupied the country.
 
LOL. This is useless discussion. But it is obvious that Chinese are still mentally wounded by their modern history - colonized & enslaved. 😊

The problem is ..... Chinese are quite embarrased even today as they are still regarded as inhuman by rest of the world, while they are the people of great pride....



I am somewhat sympathetic to Chinese, but unavoidable as their presence/influence becomes much bigger. 🙂
 
The problem is ..... Chinese are quite embarrased even today as they are still regarded as inhuman by rest of the world, while they are the people of great pride....
I am somewhat sympathetic to Chinese, but unavoidable as their presence/influence becomes much bigger. 🙂

That's right. Chinese people do need to regain their confidence. It will probably take a long time but the day will surely come.
 
It would have been an extremely traumatic experience, had the Soviet Union occupied the country.

why?
I think you dont know about battles against Russia in Northern territories
after Aug 15th
 
Japan was the one-and-only NE Asia naton ever wholely colonized by Western powers,and also Japanese were owned as slaves by the Portuguese.

that is why japan is xenophobia:p
I think debit should understand it
 
why?
I think you dont know about battles against Russia in Northern territories
after Aug 15th
That is all because of what happened in the territories occupied by Russians after Aug. 9th. What happened to Japanese prisoners of war in the Soviet Union after the war was awful. So were hardships experienced by Japanese people who were in Manchuria after the invasion by Russia.
 
121-1.webp

Posta, 16.2.01
HUMANITY SEEMS TO HAVE DIED
Photographs published in the German magazine Stern make one wonder whether "Humanity is Dead." A dead baby lies in the street, and life goes on as if nothing had happened!
http://www.harunyahya.com/e_turkestan05.php

Common sense of Chinese is quite different from us (Japan), and thus Japan wants to keep distance from them. So question is not about "Japan IN Asia VS Japan AND Asia" but "What is China?" I think.
 
That is all because of what happened in the territories occupied by Russians after Aug. 9th. What happened to Japanese prisoners of war in the Soviet Union after the war was awful. So were hardships experienced by Japanese people who were in Manchuria after the invasion by Russia

it has nothing to do with Soviet Union's rule in Japan.
I dont know why iraq hates it?
US also killed citizen Indiscriminately..
 
That is all because of what happened in the territories occupied by Russians after Aug. 9th. What happened to Japanese prisoners of war in the Soviet Union after the war was awful. So were hardships experienced by Japanese people who were in Manchuria after the invasion by Russia
it has nothing to do with Soviet Union's rule in Japan

Right, most of Japanese have never experienced occupation by the Soviet Union. That's why I said,
It would have been an extremely traumatic experience, had the Soviet Union occupied the country.
 
It would have been an extremely traumatic experience, had the Soviet Union occupied the country.

most japanese have been an extremely traumatic experience by US soldier

It would have been an extremely traumatic experience, had the Soviet Union occupied the country

Do you know why Stalin gave up to land hokkaido ?
 
most japanese have been an extremely traumatic experience by US soldier
Do you know why Stalin gave up to land hokkaido?

I don't think so.

After Meiji Revolution , Japan continued to fight Bigger Enemies.
Japan-Sino War
Japan-Russo War
Japan-ABCD (America, Briton, China and Dutch) War.

Unfortunately, Japan was defeated at the last war, but it is also true that the country did its best against ten-times bigger enemy - USA.

My grandpa said "We did our best with limited resource".
 
most japanese have been an extremely traumatic experience by US soldier
Do you know why Stalin gave up to land hokkaido?

The degree of "extreme" is a subjective thing. So, it is futile to discuss what the "extreme" is. I'm sure the US occupation left something in the Japanese' psychology.

I don't think so.
After Meiji Revolution, Japan continued to fight Bigger Enemies.
Japan-Sino War
Japan-Russo War
Japan-ABCD (America, Briton, China and Dutch) War.
Unfortunately, Japan was defeated at the last war, but it is also true that the country did its best against ten-times bigger enemy - USA.
My grandpa said "We did our best with limited resource".

I think so too.

Besides, seeing North Korea and other states on the Soviet Union's side, I must say Japan is better off than what would have been under the Soviet's occupation.
 
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