Japan & Taiwan: Bilateral relations

there is no such doccument that taiwan was a part of china
there was no official signature in cairo Communiqué
will someone stop posting pictures of the cairo declaration? it was only a communique, that is a press release. (btw, in Chinese, communique is translated as ナ津カ窶「テア which means "announcement" or "bulletin"). Yes, it is an internationally recognized document, but it has no legal status.
It cannot nullify the Treaty of Shimonoseki which handed taiwan + penghu over to japan "in perpetuity". (Might I add that the Treaty of Shimonoseki was also an internationally recognized document of legal status even though it was "unfair.") According to international law, treaties can only be canceled out by other treaties, not press releases. Further, both the San Francisco Peace Treaty (1951) and the Taipei Treaty (aka Sino-Japanese Peace Treaty) state that Japan renounces all claims on TW + PH, but do not state which government that sovereignty was to be transferred. Therefore, are taiwan + penghu legally part of the ROC??? no. It therefore cannot even be considered a part of the PRC.


btw, I'm curious as to whether the en.wikipedia.org links i posted could be reached in PRC. Can someone check them to see?
 
you could read Potsdam Proclamation... , It confirm the cairo declaration .

I know you will deny it~! I nearly foget that you have half blood of Japanese.
 
will someone stop posting pictures of the cairo declaration?... Yes, it is an internationally recognized document, but it has no legal status.
It cannot nullify the Treaty of Shimonoseki which handed taiwan + penghu over to japan "in perpetuity". (Might I add that the Treaty of Shimonoseki was also an internationally recognized document of legal status even though it was "unfair.") According to international law, treaties can only be canceled out by other treaties, not press releases....
I agree with this.

If it were not for the Treaties mentioned in this quoted post, Taiwan would still legally be Japanese territory (barring any agreements that might have sprung up).

It's funny to me how Japan gets flack for having once controlled Taiwan, but Britain does not for having once controlled Hong Kong, which Britain obtained from the first Opium War.
 
TaiWan of China is like Alsace of France, although, cession....once it has been stolen by the German,After the WW1, it returns to French

at first, taiwan was not a part of Han china.
only Qing dynasty made taiwan a part of Qing.
Qing dynasty was not China( han chinese) dynasty.
if manchurian says so, I admit.

Japan abandoned taiwan at SF treaty.
It does not means taiwan became a part of china
 
well, relax~~

There is so many historical evidence ,you can't deny them all .

Don't you know there is also YaltaConference shows that China could seize Japan? but the civil war start... Then you only could see the America army in Japan today.
 
There is so many historical evidence ,you can't deny them all

I want to see it:-)

Don't you know there is also YaltaConference shows that China could seize Japan? but the civil war start... Then you only could see the America army in Japan today

it has nothing to do with it
 
historical evidence?

well, relax~~
There is so many historical evidence ,you can't deny them all .

what other historical evidence do you know? i not only want to see it, i want to deny it, now that you say i can't. plus, are there any treaties that i have not mentioned in the above post that supercede the treaty of shimonoseki. (btw, like i already mentioned, the potsdam proclamation is not a treaty.)

further, taiwan has a military, foreign relations, and a president who is internationally recognized (except for maybe in China) unlike the Special Administrative Regions of Hong Kong and Macau.

ps- can u reach the links i posted? i'm trying to confirm something i read on wikipedia.
 
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two country:

<b>Holland and Japan</b>.

Holland colonist take TaiWan as its colony in 1600's.But after they

landed TaiWan for 38 years--In 1662 , Zheng Chengu-gong expelled the

Holland and controlled Taiwan, Zheng Chengu-gongis a great leader of

the soliders of the Ming Dynaster .In 1680', the Manchu won the war

between the Ming Dynasty and the Manchu Dynasty take control of

Taiwan. And people in TaiWan has lived the same way as the people in

China. They knew how to grow crops, how to build their house, what

kinds of clothes to wear and so on.

But in 1895, Tiawan was given to Japan because the Manchu government

lose the battle between China and Japan. People in Taiwan were very sad

to hear the bad news.......

Fifty years later(1945), TaiWan belongs to the Han people again.

Koxinga - Wikipedia

In politics, Koxinga is an interesting figure because several opposing political forces have invoked him as a hero. For this reason, historical narratives regarding Koxinga frequently differ in explaining his motives and affiliation.

He has been considered a national hero in Mainland China because he expelled the Dutch from Taiwan and established Chinese rule over the island.

During the Japanese control of Taiwan, Koxinga was honored as a bridge between Taiwan and Japan for his maternal linkage to Japan.

The Chinese Nationalist Party regarded Koxinga as a patriot who retreated to Taiwan and used it as base to launch counterattacks against the Qing Dynasty government on the Mainland. As such, the Nationalists have frequently compared Koxinga to their own leader, Chiang Kai-shek.

Supporters of Taiwan independence have historically held mixed feelings toward Koxinga. But recent Taiwanese Independence supporters have presented him in a positive light, portraying him as a native Taiwanese hero seeking to keep Taiwan independent from a mainland Chinese government.
 
In 1662 , Zheng Chengu-gong expelled the
Holland and controlled Taiwan, Zheng Chengu-gongis a great leader of
the soliders of the Ming Dynaste

Ming dynasty ended in 1644.
then Qing dynasty started....
it means Taiwan was not a part of official Ming(han) Dynasty in china continental.
That is, remnants of han chinese only invaded and ran away to Taiwan.
 
I believe you are clear already~

It's useless for you to talking about Qing dynasty and Ming dynasty, manchu and Han people ,you are all refer to China,and Chinese. you are very humor

or you could ask your teacher to reteach you for free.

look up this person:卫温 AD 230 .
 

台湾与大陆间的关系,从现存的史料上追溯,第一次被明确地记载下来的中国大陆人民与古台湾之间发生的重大事件,是出现于公元三世纪的孙权遣人远征夷州之役。

据陈寿《三国志·吴志》孙权传记载:
"黄龙二年(230)春,遣将军卫温、诸葛直将甲士万人浮海求夷州及澶州,澶州在海中,……所在绝远,卒不可得至,但得夷州数千人还。"

孙权一方面派人航海到辽东,与公孙渊联络;另一方面,则积极向东南沿海及海岛扩展,以壮大其经济、军事势力。这是他谋划统一中国的步骤,也是孙权派卫温、诸葛直出征夷州的主要原因。这次远征,留下了有深远历史意义的见证,本世纪初,在台湾北部发现了属于三国时期的指掌型古砖,这极有可能就是卫温等的遗留物。因为当时的台湾原住民不用也不可能与大陆交换这种物品。那么,卫温、诸葛直把砖带到台湾,惟一的解释就是想在那里建立孙吴的统治。
 
Origin of the Taiwan Question

Taiwan was returned to China de jure and de facto at the end of the Second World War. It became an issue only as an aftermath of the ensuing anti-popular civil war started by Kuomintang, and more especially because of intervention by foreign forces.

Taiwan question and civil war launched by Kuomintang. During the war of resistance against Japanese aggression the Chinese Communist Party and other patriotic groups pressed Kuomintang into a national united front with the Communist Party to fight Japanese imperialist aggression. After victory of the war the two Parties should have joined hands to work for the resurgence of China. But the Kuomintang clique headed by Chiang Kaishek flouted the people's fervent aspirations for peace and for building an independent, democratic and prosperous new China. Relying on U.S. support, this clique tore up the 10 October 1945 agreement between the two Parties and launched an all-out anti-popular civil war. The Chinese people were compelled to respond with a people's liberation war which was to last more than three years under the leadership of the Communist Party. Since the Kuomintang clique had already been spurned by the people of all nationalities for its reign of terror, the government of the "Republic of China" in Nanjing was finally overthrown by the Chinese people. The People's Republic of China was proclaimed on 1 October 1949 and the Government of the new People's Republic became the sole legal government of China. A group of military and political officials of the Kuomintang clique took refuge in Taiwan and, with the support of the then U.S. administration, created the division between the two sides of the Straits.

Taiwan question and responsibility of the United States. Against the backdrop of East-West confrontation in the wake of the Second World War and guided by its conceived global strategy and national interest considerations, the U.S. government gave full support to the Kuomintang, providing it with money, weapons and advisors to carry on the civil war and block the advance of the Chinese people's revolution. However, the U.S. government never achieved its objective. The White Paper on United States Relations with China released by the Department of State in 1949 and Secretary of State Dean Acheson's letter of transmittal to President Harry S. Truman had to admit this. Dean Acheson lamented in his letter: "The unfortunate but inescapable fact is that the ominous result of the civil war in China was beyond the control of the government of the United States. ... Nothing that was left undone by this country has contributed to it. It was the product of internal Chinese forces, forces which this country tried to influence but could not."

At the time of the founding of the People's Republic of China the then U.S. administration could have pulled itself from the quagmire of China's civil war. But it failed to do so. Instead, it adopted a policy of isolation and containment of New China. When the Korean War broke out, it started armed intervention in the inter-Taiwan Straits relations which were entirely China's internal affairs. On 27 June 1950 President Truman announced: "I have ordered the Seventh Fleet to prevent any attack on Formosa." Thus the Seventh Fleet invaded the Taiwan Straits and the U.S. 13th Air Force set up base in Taiwan. In December 1954 the U.S. concluded with the Taiwan authorities a so-called mutual defense treaty placing China's Taiwan Province under U.S. "protection". The erroneous policy of the U.S. government of continued interference in China's internal affairs led to prolonged and intense confrontation in the Taiwan Straits area and henceforth the Taiwan question became a major dispute between China and the United States.

In order to ease tension in the Taiwan Straits area and seek ways of solving the dispute between the two countries, the Chinese Government started dialogues with the United States from the mid-1950s onwards. The two countries held 136 sessions of talks at ambassadorial level from August 1955 to February 1970. However, no progress had been made in that period on the key issue of easing and removing tension in the Taiwan Straits area. It was not until late 1960s and early 1970s when the international situation had undergone changes and as New China had gained in strength that the U.S. began to readjust its China policy and the relations between the two countries started a thawing. In October 1971 the United Nations General Assembly adopted at its 26th session Resolution 2758 which restored all the lawful rights of the People's Republic of China in the United Nations and expelled the "representatives" of the Taiwan authorities from the U.N. U.S. President Richard Nixon visited China in February 1972 in the course of which the two countries issued a joint communiqu'e?? in Shanghai stating that: "The U.S. side declared: the United States acknowledges that all Chinese on either side of the Taiwan Strait maintain there is but one China and that Taiwan is a part of China. The United States Government does not challenge that position."

In December 1978 the U.S. Government accepted the three principles proposed by the Chinese Government for the establishment of diplomatic relations between the two countries, namely, the United States should sever "diplomatic relations" and abrogate the "mutual defense treaty" with the Taiwan authorities and withdraw U.S. military forces from Taiwan. On 1 January 1979 China and the United States formally established diplomatic relations. The Communiqu'e on the Establishment of Diplomatic Relations said that: "The United States of America recognizes the Government of the People's Republic of China as the sole legal government of China. Within this context, the people of the United States will maintain cultural, commercial and other unofficial relations with the people of Taiwan ... ... The Government of the United States of America acknowledges the Chinese position that there is but one China and Taiwan is part of China." Normalization of Sino-U.S. relations was thus achieved.

Regrettably, however, scarcely three months after the event, a so-called Taiwan Relations Act was passed by the U.S. Congress and signed into law by the President. A domestic legislation of the U.S. as it was, this Act contained many clauses that contravened the communiqu'e? on the establishment of diplomatic relations between China and the U.S. and the principles of international law, and seriously prejudiced the rights and interests of the Chinese people. Invoking this legislation, the U.S. Government has continued its arms sales to Taiwan, interference in China's internal affairs and obstruction to Taiwan's reunification with the mainland.

In order to resolve the issue of U.S. arms sales to Taiwan, the Chinese and the U.S. governments negotiated and reached an agreement on 17 August 1982. A communique? bearing the same date became the third joint communique? governing Sino-U.S. relations. In that communique? the U.S. Government stated that: "It does not seek to carry out a long-term policy of arms sales to Taiwan, that its arms sales to Taiwan will not exceed, either in qualitative or in quantitative terms, the level of those supplied in recent years since the establishment of diplomatic relations between the United States and China and that it intends gradually to reduce its sale of arms to Taiwan, leading, over a period of time, to a final resolution." Yet in the past dozen or more years the U.S. Government has not only failed to implement the communiqu'e? in earnest, but has repeatedly contravened it. In September 1992 the U.S. Government even decided to sell 150 F-16 high-performance fighter aircraft to Taiwan. This action of the U.S. Government has added a new stumbling block in the way of the development of Sino-U.S. relations and settlement of the Taiwan question.

It is clear from the foregoing that the U.S. Government is responsible for holding up the settlement of the Taiwan question. Since the 1970s many Americans of vision and goodwill in or outside the administration have contributed much by way of helping to resolve the differences between China and the U.S. on the Taiwan question. The aforesaid three joint communiqu'e?s testify to their effort and contribution of which the Chinese Government and people are highly appreciative. On the other hand, one cannot fail to note that there are people in the U.S. who still do not want to see a reunified China. They have cooked up various pretexts and exerted influence to obstruct the settlement of the Taiwan question.

The Chinese Government is convinced that the American and the Chinese peoples are friendly to each other and that the normal development of the relations between the two countries accords with the long-term interests and common aspiration of both peoples. Both countries should cherish the three hard-won joint communiqu'e?s guiding the development of bilateral relations. As long as both sides abide by the principles enshrined in those communique?s, respect each other and set store by their overall common interests, it will not be difficult to settle the Taiwan question that has been left over from history and Sino-U.S. relations will surely see steady improvement and development ahead.
 
again
Qing Dynasty ceded Japan Taiwan at shimonoseki treaty.
If CCP succeeds Qing Dynasty, it is necessary to defend the agreement with Qing and Japan.
---------------
Then Japan abandoned Taiwan.
it did not mean Taiwan became a part of China
You must learn a word of cession
Since the 1970s many Americans of vision and goodwill in or outside the administration have contributed much by way of helping to resolve the differences between China and the U.S. on the Taiwan question

It is nothing to do with that.
The agreement or treaty give priority over all.

can I see the real documment of that?😊
 
TaiWan of China is like Alsace of France, although, cession....once it has been stolen by the German,After the WW1, it returns to French

Japanese makes a big trouble ...
Chinese shall remember that~...
 
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窶佚、ヒ徘窶膿窶佚・陆间窶廬关ナ地ツ,ヒ慊ク现窶伉カ窶廬ナスj窶板ソツ湘」窶凖?クティツ,窶佚ヲヒ?ェナスナク窶敕ュ窶督セ确窶冢记载窶ーツコ窶藩??廬窶吮??ツ坂?倪?佚・陆ツ人窶督ッ窶膿ナ津??佚、ヒ徘窶抃间发ツ青カ窶廬ツ重窶佚・ナス窶毒陳渉,ツ青・ツ出现ヒ慊ーナ津カナ陳ウナスOツ青「纪窶廬孙权ナ陳ュツ人远ツ青ェヒ?篠州窶抃窶禿ーツ。

ツ斥?#38472;ナステオツ《ナスOツ坂?佛スu·吴ナスuツ》孙权传记载ツ:
ツ ツ ツ"窶ーツゥ龙窶愿ア窶扼ツ(230ツ)ツ春ツ,ナ陳ュツ渉ォ军卫窶ーツキツ、诸ナ?窶ケ窶卍シツ渉ォツ甲ナスm窶毒督人窶「窶塲?C窶ケツ⇒?篠州窶ケy澶ツ州ツ,澶ツ州ツ催敘?C窶吮??ツ,ツ…ツ…ツ焦?ツ催?#32477;远ツ,窶伉イ窶「s窶ーテや?慊セナスナ?ツ,窶僊窶慊セヒ?篠州ツ絶?敖静ァツ人还ツ。ツ"
ツ ツ
孙权ヒ?ェ窶「テサ窶禿岩?拮ツ人ツ航ナ?C窶愬セ辽东ツ,窶膿ナ津カ孙ナクツサ联络ツ;另ヒ?ェ窶「テサ窶禿環,则积极ナ津シ东窶愿ャ窶ーヒ??C窶ケyナ?C岛扩窶弩ツ,ヒ?遺??窶佚・窶伉エ经济ツ、军ナス窶?#21183;窶氾債。这ツ青・窶伉シ谋划统ヒ?ェ窶吮??ツ坂?倪?廬步骤ツ,窶禿ァツ青・孙权窶拮卫窶ーツキツ、诸ナ?窶ケ窶卍シツ出ツ青ェヒ?篠州窶廬ナステ・窶牌ナ陳エヒ?カツ。这ナスナク远ツ青ェツ,窶板ッ窶ーツコ窶板ケ窶猫ツ深远历ナスjヒ??#20041;窶廬见证ツ,窶怒ツ青「纪ツ鞘?ーツ,ツ催昶?佚、ヒ徘窶徒窶「窶?#21457;现窶板ケ窶伉ョヒ慊ーナスOツ坂??#26102;ナ?テコ窶廬ナスwツ渉カナ耽ナ津?#30742;ツ,这极窶猫窶ーテや?拿ツ就ツ青・卫窶ーツキ窶懌┐窶廬遗窶板ッ窶「ツィツ。ヒ?カ为窶懌??#26102;窶廬窶佚、ヒ徘ナ陳エツ住窶督ッ窶「s窶廃窶禿ァ窶「s窶ーテや?拿窶膿窶佚・陆ナ津ー换这种窶「ツィ窶「iツ。窶愿?#20040;ツ,卫窶ーツキツ、诸ナ?窶ケ窶卍シ窶拂砖带窶愬セ窶佚、ヒ徘ツ,ヒ?塚?ェ窶廬窶ーテー释ツ就ツ青・窶?ツ催昶?愿溪?板「ナ椎。窶板ァ孙吴窶廬统ナスツ。ツ。

What's this suppose to mean? Please put translations with your text if you are going to write/copy/quote something that is not in English and you are in the English section. Thank you in advance
 
TaiWan of China is like Alsace of France, although, cession....once it has been stolen by the German,After the WW1, it returns to French

where is an evidence of that?

------------------------------------------
a man: let me make love with you.
a girl : i dont like you. go away
a man :can you see this Knife. I will rape you.
 
Origin of the Taiwan Question
Taiwan was returned to China de jure and de facto at the end of the Second World War. It became an issue only as an aftermath of the ensuing anti-popular civil war started by Kuomintang, and more especially because of intervention by foreign forces....
If you're going to cut and paste, at least give your source credit. If it's copywrited, our policy is to include a link to the original source.
 
the document of "the origin of the taiwan question" has no power to repeal the treaties. it was part of a document the prc published.
Taiwan was returned to China de jure and de facto at the end of the Second World War.
that's an empty and baseless statement as we have mentioned the treaties several times already.
In December 1954 the U.S. concluded with the Taiwan authorities a so-called mutual defense treaty placing China's Taiwan Province under U.S. "protection".
"Taiwan Province"??? even english wikipedia calls this a "claimed province": "Taiwan Province of the People's Republic of China is a claimed province of the People's Republic of China (PRC), covering the entirety of the island of Taiwan and its surrounding islets, including the Pescadores. This territory is currently administered by the Republic of China (ROC). The People's Republic of China holds the view that it succeeded the ROC as the sole legitimate authority in China upon its founding in 1949, and that the ROC currently on Taiwan does not exist legitimately." Taiwan Province, People's Republic of China - Wikipedia
The Government of the United States of America acknowledges the Chinese position that there is but one China and Taiwan is part of China.
The U.S. side declared: the United States acknowledges that all Chinese on either side of the Taiwan Strait maintain there is but one China and that Taiwan is a part of China. The United States Government does not challenge that position.
Notice the word "acknowledge" which means "recognize" and in terms of law does not mean "the united states believes that taiwan is a part of the people's republic of china."
I would also like to point out that the PRC has no power over Taiwan it can only pressure Taiwan to do something, e.g. in the '04 Olympics, it did not lawfully force Taiwan into entering under "Chinese Taipei." Instead, it pressured Taiwan into accepting this name. Also, note that Taiwanese passports say "Taiwan" and not "People's Republic of China," their national flags are different, Taiwan has its own government and president like PRC, etc.... Also, consider that Taiwan meets all requirements for membership in the UNGA since it "has a defined territory, a population of 21.8 million (greater than that of two thirds of the Members of the UN), and a Government which has the capacity to fulfil international obligations. It therefore meets all prerequisites for statehood [not "provincehood" as the Chinese say]...." (http://www.un.org/documents/ga/docs/53/plenary/a53-145.htm)
 
What's this suppose to mean? Please put translations with your text if you are going to write/copy/quote something that is not in English and you are in the English section. Thank you in advance

Ok,thank you for your advise,I remember that . then translate it shortly:
Code:
Chinese army landed Taiwan at the 3rd century and build house there, people still find the bricks of the house in TaiWan today.


If you're going to cut and paste, at least give your source credit. If it's copywrited, our policy is to include a link to the original source.

Thank you ~!give the link here :
 
Chinese army landed Taiwan at the 3rd century and build house there, people still find the bricks of the house in TaiWan today.

is that supposed to prove anything?
 
again
Qing Dynasty ceded Japan Taiwan at shimonoseki treaty.
If CCP succeeds Qing Dynasty, it is necessary to defend the agreement with Qing and Japan.
---------------
Then Japan abandoned Taiwan.
it did not mean Taiwan became a part of China
One of the main aim of the revolution launched by Chinese nationalist
party as well as Chinese communist party is to repeal any unfair treaty
imposed to China by imperialist.
shimonoseki treaty definitely is an unfair treaty, so it must
be repealed.
You must learn a word of cession
It is nothing to do with that.
The agreement or treaty give priority over all.
can I see the real documment of that?😊
I guess that Japanese learned a lot of words, but there are two
words that Japanese seem have never learned,
they are "right" and "wrong"
 
One of the main aim of the revolution launched by Chinese nationalist
party as well as Chinese communist party is to repeal any unfair treaty
imposed to China by imperialist.
shimonoseki treaty definitely is an unfair treaty, so it must
be repealed.

yes, the treaty of shimonoseki was an unfair treaty, but it is legal and internationally recognized. treaties are not repealed, but can be superceded by other treaties as i have mentioned before. the treaties of taipei and san francisco clearly supercede the treaty of shimonoseki.

I guess that Japanese learned a lot of words, but there are two
words that Japanese seem have never learned,
they are "right" and "wrong"
the Japanese have learned the words "right" and "wrong" a lot better than the Chinese. a quick glance at the current state of affairs proves this. 1. US imports from China: over 500 ships of food, goods, etc from China have currently been sent back because of the dangerous chemicals in them that harm the human body after consumption; e.g. the lychees i see at my local Asian Food Market contain formaldehyde; 2. is there anyone in china who is enforcing the minimum wage salary? the answer is: NO. the majority of the chinese population is starving, underpaid, underprivileged. what is the chinese government doing? NOTHING. Two years ago, in one province alone, there were 8000 riots. Tanks were sent in, people were killed, but their needs were not provided.

Don't criticize another country without first looking at your own- it will only embarrass you.
 
yes, the treaty of shimonoseki was an unfair treaty, but it is legal and internationally recognized. treaties are not repealed, but can be superceded by other treaties as i have mentioned before. the treaties of taipei and san francisco clearly supercede the treaty of shimonoseki.
childish
the Japanese have learned the words "right" and "wrong" a lot better than the Chinese. a quick glance at the current state of affairs proves this. 1. US imports from China: over 500 ships of food, goods, etc from China have currently been sent back because of the dangerous chemicals in them that harm the human body after consumption; e.g. the lychees i see at my local Asian Food Market contain formaldehyde; 2. is there anyone in china who is enforcing the minimum wage salary? the answer is: NO. the majority of the chinese population is starving, underpaid, underprivileged. what is the chinese government doing? NOTHING. Two years ago, in one province alone, there were 8000 riots. Tanks were sent in, people were killed, but their needs were not provided.
Don't criticize another country without first looking at your own- it will only embarrass you.
has anything to do with this topic?
 
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