spanking kids; what do you think?

[Bellevance]

I do not understand objections to 'cruel and unusual' punishment.

That's clear. And that's why, as a conscientious student, you owe it to yourself to examine the large body of refined, contemporary thinking on the matter before you start tossing out aggressive opinions based on hollow supposition, discredited assumptions, and antiquated "common sense."

 

[Haruspex]

The problem I see with spanking is that it is a means for manipulating a kid. 2 different persons would consider spanking their kid for completely different reasons. So, what is to be drawn? Spanking indeed builds character, the character some foolish parents want to build.
Not to mention that the whole thing isn't about pain. Its humiliating, yes it is. And if we look at the European Convention on Human Rights, Article 3 on torture, clearly it can be (may happen in the future) interpreted to include chastisement of children.
I mean, you go and slap a kid. That is an aggressive way of telling the kid that you're dominant (hence [a very poor argument]) you know it better.

You want proud individuals or society building blocks?

 

[pugtm]

That's clear. And that's why, as a conscientious student, you owe it to yourself to examine the large body of refined, contemporary thinking on the matter before you start tossing out aggressive opinions based on hollow supposition, discredited assumptions, and antiquated "common sense."

so you want me to abandon my point of view despite logic common sense and some thousands of years of evidence that it works to listen to your refined and high flying psycho babel?
I guess common antiquated sense isn't cosmopolitan enough for your sensibilities. or maybe it's simplicity doesn't appeal to your sophisticated mind.
i have studied, the "refined modern thinking" and found that thinking is exactly what they don't do.

 

[Haruspex]

so you want me to abandon my point of view despite logic common sense and some thousands of years of evidence that it works to listen to your refined and high flying psycho babel?
I guess common antiquated sense isn't cosmopolitan enough for your sensibilities. or maybe it's simplicity doesn't appeal to your sophisticated mind.
i have studied, the "refined modern thinking" and found that thinking is exactly what they don't do.

Common sense is often an excuse for lazy people not to think and use their brains.

 

[Bellevance]

i have studied, the "refined modern thinking" and found that thinking is exactly what they don't do.

This kind of sweeping contempt grows out of a reflexive, populist anti-intellectualism that happens to be one of this culture's least appealing and most dangerous aspects. This statement represents an incandescent example of cognitive bias at its worst--and at its most shameful.

It's unfortunate, it's wooden-headed, it's frustrating, and it's sad. No student--no college student especially--should ever succumb to such an attitude, truly. It's the attitude of a proud and defiant ignoramus.

"Education" derives from from the Latin, meaning to lead out [of the darkness]. Those would-be learners who must so furiously keep their eyes squeezed shut will never figure out whether it's dark or not.

 

[pugtm]

Common sense is often an excuse for lazy people not to think and use their brains.

quite contrary, common sense is normal people using logic instead of being lazy and having pseudo researchers think for them.
as for populist? i think that's the first time i have ever heard myself called that. if by populist you mean a person who uses his own intellect and doesn't really on silly notions of modern culture you can keep it. it is you who is ignoring millennium of data to put forth your own pseudo culture that is incompatible with basic humanity. pain is a mechanism developed by nature to help socialize men(women, whatever) into society. it tells you when you are doing something hazardous to your health. you want us to ignore that for a professor with a pad of paper and "intellectual" idea's that have little to recommend them? That is what is wrong with our culture nowadays, anything logical is abandoned for stupid "progressive theories" and anybody who says otherwise is shot down as being anachronistic or old fashioned or closed minded.

 

[Haruspex]

I don't see that strong a connection between society and pain.
If I went on to slap people whenever they fail to do something that is their duty to do, I would quickly end up in a cell, and that would be for the best of society. Not to mention that its usually not "Oh, sorry dear, I know this is going to hurt, but its for your sake so you will be a good building block in the wall of society blah blah..." but "IM DA PARENT, I KNOWS BETTER!"

 

[Bellevance]

...as for populist? i think that's the first time i have ever heard myself called that.

You have misheard. If you'll look more carefully, you'll see that the reference is to a populist streak of anti-intellectualism in this country. Your incoherent, tantrum-like condemnation of "pseudo researchers" (whatever they are) and "pseudo culture" (whatever that is) in favor of the imagined primacy of common sense is a pure example of an anti-intellectual rant. This is the kind of pugnacious stupidity and obtuse refusal to investigate established evidence that has made the teaching of intelligent design an issue in this country. It impedes and corrupts rational thinking.

The experience of pain is a fundamental, natural mechanism that teaches animals to fear and/or avoid the cause of pain. Deliberately inflicted pain teaches animals to fear and/or avoid the creature that deliberately inflicts the pain--a parent, for instance. This we recognize as common sense. Superficially, physical punishment and humiliation can make a child stop doing whatever the parent objects to. To that extent it's effective. But the deeper, less obvious effects are often too great (and unnecessary) a price to pay for the superficial result. This finding is well documented. There are better tactics and strategies that parents can employ to change a child's objectionable behavior. Parents can learn, just like college students, as long as they are willing and open-minded.

 

[arty963]

I am not against spanking, but there is a difference between spanking and abuse. Most people have wanted to smack child at one time or another, but the basic choice is between hitting them on the face or swatting them on the behind. The bottom is covered with a thick layer of fat and can absorb a bit of punishment and pain. The reason why kids need a painful reminder sometimes is because words will not do when kids are not in control of their impulses / emotions. At these moments are kids or teens are not rational beings and they cannot be dealt with rationally. A good spanking is like shock therapy; it brings young people back to a place where they can control themselves, which will be, as it turns out, a requirement of them as adults throughout their lives. Yes, we should reason with young people until reasoning stops working, but after that only a physical reminder will suffice. In the US now, young people are increasingly never punished (neither verbally nor physically) due to the political correctness of feminism and the 'progressive' approach used in schools. It is well documented that US school children and teens are out of control, which is well illustrated by rampant drug use, violence, promiscuity, and disrespectful behavior for schools, teachers, principals, and parents. One common sense way to measure whether strict parenting is a good idea is to listen to the stories of people who have been raised in a permissive household vs. those raised in a strict household. Those who have been raise by lax parents are lackluster and place no value in rules, hard work, earning things, or respecting people. They don't carry about anything and generally are hard to work with or be around. Those who were punished when they needed it are vivacious and recall how angry their parents got on this or that occasion with a big smile on their faces--because they indeed got what they needed, not what they wanted. If you visit a state like Texas in the US, you'll notice that young people and adults are generally very polite. This is because you grow up there saying 'yes sir / mame' and 'no sir / mame', and parents demand respect always. So young people in Texas grow up to respect not only their parents, but also adults and society in general. Children have been spanked for thousands of years and they did not turn out to be depressed or unhappy, just the opposite in fact. Look at the cultures in the world who demand respect from young people; they have populations that are productive and mature. Look at cultures who are afraid of their young people; they have populations that are childish, entitled, and spoiled.

 

[Davey]

@arty963 You got some good point in your post but if you want to present facts about kids in the US please give us some of your resources or share your experience.

 

[Wardie1993]

it stops them from being naughty, i got spanked once and sent to me room i never did owt again

 

[MitsuKasuka]

I don't see anything wrong with the occasional slap on the thigh/backside

For example, you are about to cross the road, your child decides to run into the road risking their lives. You grab them back onto the pavement/sidewalk and slap them. The pain is a negative reinforcer, demonstrating that what they just did is bad and that they shouldn't do it again. Most children will not be able to grasp the concept of future consequences of their actions; things that MAY happen but don't necessarily. The instant pain received from a slap is an entirely reasonable replacement to actually getting hit by a vehicle from running across a road.

I believe slaps should only be used in situations where the consequences of the child doing wrong is not clear, as what I mentioned before. Situations where the consequences are clear are things such as: 'If you don't clean your room, you'll not get your pocket money for the week' This consequence WILL be seen if the child does not clean their room, therefore acting as the reinforcer for future good behaviour.

I hope that made sense! I used a bit of my psychology knowledge from college.


-EDIT- I also got 'spanked' when I was younger, I can't say if it worked or not as apparently I was the 'devil child'. However one time I remember being smacked around the face by my mother for being a bit moody e.e which I think was completely out of order.

I have heard stories of how my dad used to get caned at school (hit with a long wooden cane/stick) which I think is a lot worse than a slap and that used to be legal in all/most schools!

I have also heard stories off my old boss about his school in Pakistan, where they stripped them down and hosed them with cold water in front of the whole school if they did anything wrong. I think in comparison, spanking is really not that bad (when used appropriately).