is it all about the visual?

[kairi~vs~rinoa]

[>Kaidan<] why do people like dir en grey so much?
[>Kaidan<] I just don't get it.
[+ pink spider +] because they're talented... do you not like them then?
[>Kaidan<] They haven't shown talent in their music for about four years.
[>Kaidan<] I don't like quite a bit of their work.
[+ pink spider +] hmmmm i'll admit their music isn't what it used to be, but thats not a bad thing. i think they're still good.
[>Kaidan<] Honestly, they can't even duplicate what little talent they showed in their earlier work. Toshiya TOTALLY ****** over the Cage solo in the 5 days concerts.
[>Kaidan<] It's funny. I was one of their biggest fans about five years ago. XD Oh how the mighty have fallen.
[>Kaidan<] I've given them more money than most every person that has accused me of just being a hater on them. XD
[jeunne_fille] i liked their music when they were visual, now they are more mainstream
[>Kaidan<] That's another thing. What is up with visual? Do people really need a pretty face to sell them music?
[>Kaidan<] Has the world become so shallow?
[jeunne_fille] visual kei is the basis of most japanese rock bands and now teen culture in Japan, why do you hate it? it is just an art form
[>Kaidan<] There are so many great bands out there (speaking of japanese music, that is) that don't have to dress up like ugly women to make good (better) music.
[jeunne_fille] excuse me , ugly? and its not shallow at all
[>Kaidan<] Most japanese teens LAUGH at visual kids.
[>Kaidan<] IT'S A JOKE.
[>Kaidan<] It's an insult to their fanbase.
[>Kaidan<] To think that their fans wont care unless they look good. Which is really a sad thing, because it's true. Most visual fans only like bands because of their looks.
[>Kaidan<] Talk to any cosplay girl at almost any visual live, and they'll tell you "i only like this band because ____ is so cute."
[+ pink spider +] so you're saying that most people don't like diru now because they've eased off on the vk?
[>Kaidan<] I'm saying who cares what dir en grey look like, their music has been kind of lacking for the past four years.
[>Kaidan<] I mean, every new release seems to have more and more distortion covering everything. There's little discernable guitar work that you can make out through the haze.
[>Kaidan<] Kyo's vocals have dissolved into hardly anything other than screams and moans and whines.
[>Kaidan<] I'm saying that dir en grey fans, for the most part, must be either fans of screamo, or are just being loyal to the band that they used to like, but still want to support (for some reason).
[>Kaidan<] I just lament the fact that they no longer seem to care what they sound like, as long as people will still give them money.
[>Kaidan<] Or maybe what some girl said yesterday is true, and that they're just trying to americanize their sound to appeal to their overseas fanbase.
[>Kaidan<] But seeing them in lives, they really don't seem to enjoy it. I mean, during the 5 days blitz thing, they acted like they didn't even want to be there. You could TELL they didn't want to play their old songs....
[>Kaidan<] it wasn't a comfortable set of lives.
[>Kaidan<] But they dropped the old sound while they played the old songs. They revamped them with their newly acquired haze of distortion and screams.
[>Kaidan<] In some of the songs, the audience sang more than Kyo.
[>Kaidan<] There are other bands that aren't so lackadasical towards their music even after being around for 7+ years.
[>Kaidan<] Other who despite changing their sound drastically, don't end up sucking with every song sounding basically the same.

i'd like to hear people's opinions on this. is it really all about the vk these days?

 

[DemonHunter]

i dont care about the vk clothing,i care more about the music

 

[kairi~vs~rinoa]

i agree. i won't deny that vk helps to like a band, but not that much to stop you going out and buying their stuff.

 

[DemonHunter]

the only j-music cd i own
is the melt banana-13 hedgehogs

most of the time i listen to punk/hardcore/metal or other j music

like G.I.S.M,Death Side,Nightmare(The Hardcore Band),Framtid,Hellchild,BBQ Chickens,10 Feet, Gauze,The Execute,Laughing Nose,Matsuji,Kemuri,The Stalin,
Acid Mothers Temple,Boredoms,Melt Banana, and some bands i forgot

 

[SaKeVi]

Hey, I totally agree with Kaidan !!!! Everything he said is true, eventhough DeG has quit to Visual...

All of those bands sell more because of their 'looks' than their music, and suddenly you can see a bad quality on music, all because this kids are more interested on being cute for the fans than giving a good alternative on music.

Hey Demon, you should get LP's of japanese punk, look around Distros worldwide, they worth every $$ you invest on them... Framtid?? great, hahahaha.

See you!!

 

[mizerable_d]

Kaidan is a girl btw. omg Kaidan?! was this taken from Gaia? cuz i know Pink Spider too...

and of course looks and talent dont relate at all. i mean look at the vocals of Alice Nine! he's as cute as a button, but his voice suck real bad. also nightmare appeal to me in the same way. actually a lot of VK bands suck, and most of them look alike. on the opposite, i don't think GO!GO!7188 look good at all, but their music just kick so much ***.

also on the Dir en Grey thing, Kaidan has talked about this before somewhere, and i can understand because their music HAVE gone western to appeal to oversea fans :stare: o well at least they'll get money from the lame. i just hope that they will change the style next album, it's getting boring as they've done the same style with 2 albums. i guess nothgin can compare with their earlier stuff.

 

[DemonHunter]

Hey, I totally agree with Kaidan !!!! Everything he said is true, eventhough DeG has quit to Visual...

All of those bands sell more because of their 'looks' than their music, and suddenly you can see a bad quality on music, all because this kids are more interested on being cute for the fans than giving a good alternative on music.

Hey Demon, you should get LP's of japanese punk, look around Distros worldwide, they worth every $$ you invest on them... Framtid?? great, hahahaha.

See you!!

@SaKeVi
im planing on getting

Stop Jap and Mushi by The Stalin on cd,and trying to get that framtid Under The Ashes cd and the latest Balzac cd
talking about framtid,ive found some lives by them,still in the waiting line for it

i dont own a LP player(my dad has one but that one's dead)

when are you on slsk?

 

[furan]

[>Kaidan<] Talk to any cosplay girl at almost any visual live, and they'll tell you "i only like this band because ____ is so cute."


that is tottaly true and it REALLY pisses me off...

i'm sorry i keep on bringing these guys into every dsingle topic, but i believe that they really are an extreemly talented Jrock band...
Kagrra, have changed dramatically over the 6 years they've been together... but they're still continuing to produce new music...
their sound has gone from good, hard rock/metal, to more melodic melo stuff... but lately Isshi#s returned to his dark lyrics, which makes me very happy...
but my point is... their sound has matured with them, as they've matured as a band....
yet their fans have imatured...
in the REALLy old lives of their, when they were under the name CROW... the fans were CLEARLY incredibly into the music... screaming and singing along, and moshing their heads off.... but.... now when i watch lives....
all you can hear is
AKIYA!!!!!!!!
NAOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
... no clapping, no CHREARING... just stupid fangirls screaming their names....
and... although you can tell they love it... i also think... Shin especially... get really tierd of it... because they put in a hell of a lot of work to come up with new and exciting things... but... the fans really don't seem to care...

i didn't know that Japanese singers were so hott untill the beging of this year... i'd been listening to their music for a good 3/4 months before hand...
i'#ve never been bothered by image... and it's ALWAYS been about the music... but that's because i'm a musical person....

to be honest... i know jack about Diru... but i know i like their music...
i LIKE heavier stuff... so i like it...
and to me... it's seemed more like they've been going the way THEY want to go... and not just doing what their fans want to do....
mybe they were getting fed up of jusat having fans loving them fir their image... so dropped it to see if thier fans would still like them....

Kagrra, did the same... they've changed their image as well as their music... but... i think because they're still young (and Isshi's still obsessed with himself XD) they're still.... yeah...
but they still blatantly love performing their old stuff... Kotodama (their first single) is practically done in hevery concert ^.^

AND... Plastic Tree... they're been going for even longer than Diru... and have also dropped their visual... and calmed down a bit...
loads of peopel hate them... buti love the pants off them...


anyways, i'll shut up now before i'm eaten

it was really interesting to read ^.^

 

[Horizon]

I'd have to agree with everything Furan said really.

And I'm also incredibly annoyed by people like Kaidan who go on and on about what the band seems to care about as if, somehow, they could actually read their minds or something. They still produce good music from what I can tell for one thing, although, of course, people have the right to say the exact opposite. However, other things, such as what I mentioned first in this paragraph, no one but the band pretty much has the right to say that. They could have just been tired for Pete's sake. I'd be pretty grumpy if I had to go perform in front of a bunch of fangirls/boys who only liked me because I'm hot or some crap like that. I think the band has just changed over time like many, many other bands have done so. There is, of course, I possibility of them actually not caring anymore, but one: it's none of our business why they produce music, whether it be from just wanting to express themselves to people to just making moola, as long as the music is good. Just like what Kaiden's seems a bit upset over. It's about the MUSIC, not about anything else. Not their intention(s) or motivation(s) and certainly NOT how they look.

Anyway, as people may just be able to tell, the look is nothing to me whatsoever. I'll admit, it makes them possibly a bit prettier, but it doesn't improve their music. I want musicians for their music, not their looks. That's what models are for.

And I think I had other things to say here, but I've completely and utterly forgotten them type of thing, so I'll just shut my mouth up here.

 

[furan]

mhh...
i agree mostly with what you say Horizon....

except... intentions are improtant for me....
i DON'T like people who just churn out music because they want to make money...

personally... i actually didn't have any problems with Avril Lavigne's music to begin with... but... then i saw her, and i was like.... what? i thought she was a country singer?
what bugs me about her is that she actually wanted to be a country singer, but her reccord lable said that wouldn't sell... be a punk instead... and so now she's all like 'o, i'm tottla hard cor'...
anf bands like blink 182... i used to LOVE them.... untill iheared interviews and watched lives of theirs.... it broke my heart because i was unter the misconception that they were actually nice guys just wanting to express them selves through music...

bowling for soup, however (sorry for all the english examples ) i don;t minds... because... they take the piss outta people like that... and yes, they are musicians, but they're prodominatly and entertainment act...
i saw them live at donnington, and they were possibly the best band to see live there... because they really involve themselves with all the fans and everyone... they're just happy to be where they are today, and wanna live it to their fullest... because they know they could be dropped anytime...

and Metalica... they were GODS... then they became sell outs and now i despise them...
i WILL, however, still listen to their old music... but i refuse to go see them, or support them any further...

 

[Horizon]

The musicians that actually do it for the fans and/or just to express themselves do get better respect from me in most situations. However, good music is still good music. Especially if, like, 95%, if not more, of your fan base only like you for your looks. What's the point of trying to express yourself through music and the likes when the only responses you're going to get a something like: "mhg! So-and-so is just so HAWT! lyk omgh!" and, in response: "yea! I know he is! I prefer this other so-and-so though. he so HAWWWWWT!"

If that's what makes up more than half the crowd/fanbase I have, psssht! I'm so NOT going to pour my heart and soul out for the Hotness Zombies, ne, ne? Or, at least, there'd be times I didn't quite feel up to it or anything of the sort. So, in some cases, I might not just be able to blame the band. It just might seem so damn hopeless to them, you know what I mean here...?

 

[furan]

lol
yeah... now tha i agree with...
it's just... for me, the music has to come as a whol pakage for me to be a REALLY big fan...

they have to be a respectable band, and make good music...

but that's because... like, i whent though the whole... 'revoluion' stage... like, you know when you get these people who only go arround listiening to 'unknown' bands and boycotting all corparate things?
yeah... my best friend's that to the extreem

 

[Horizon]

I really wish people would just listen to a band for the BAND (meaning, of course, through musical/talented senses and not physical attributes)!

Jeez! This is why you hope to be so-called 'ugly' when you create a band. At least then you'll know no one'll like you only for your looks!

But then you'd probably get people like your friend...☝

 

[furan]

lol

yes.... first and formost... it's all about the music...
BUT... i don;t believe prasie should be givin to people who don't give a rats *** to those people loving their music... or to those people who don;t even try with their music....
to me, they're no worse than those corparate market people.... *grrs at them*

example... boy bands... yes, some of them are actually good singers.... and some of them actually write their own stuff....
but a LOT of them just do what they're told to do because they know they can do it well, and it's a quick rout to fame....

now THAT pisses me off...

 

[Horizon]

Quite true, quite true! I agree!

And hence why I hate those television shows so much... American Idol, Canadian Idol, and that new one Rock INX or whatever it's called. These people, from what I can tell (judging by Kelly Clarkslu-I mean, Clarkson, Clay My-Ears-Are-Aching!-...Err, I mean Aiken, Ruben, Ryan Malcolm, et cetera) they have absolutely NO talent! And they get the easy way in? All the other talented people had to break in through the crowd and the hardships and everything and these talentless idiots just waltz into the scene with a few votes?

It's disgusting!

 

[mizerable_d]

[>Kaidan<] Talk to any cosplay girl at almost any visual live, and they'll tell you "i only like this band because ____ is so cute."


that is tottaly true and it REALLY pisses me off...

i'm sorry i keep on bringing these guys into every dsingle topic, but i believe that they really are an extreemly talented Jrock band...
Kagrra, have changed dramatically over the 6 years they've been together... but they're still continuing to produce new music...
their sound has gone from good, hard rock/metal, to more melodic melo stuff... but lately Isshi#s returned to his dark lyrics, which makes me very happy...
but my point is... their sound has matured with them, as they've matured as a band....
yet their fans have imatured...
in the REALLy old lives of their, when they were under the name CROW... the fans were CLEARLY incredibly into the music... screaming and singing along, and moshing their heads off.... but.... now when i watch lives....
all you can hear is
AKIYA!!!!!!!!
NAOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
... no clapping, no CHREARING... just stupid fangirls screaming their names....
and... although you can tell they love it... i also think... Shin especially... get really tierd of it... because they put in a hell of a lot of work to come up with new and exciting things... but... the fans really don't seem to care...

i didn't know that Japanese singers were so hott untill the beging of this year... i'd been listening to their music for a good 3/4 months before hand...
i'#ve never been bothered by image... and it's ALWAYS been about the music... but that's because i'm a musical person....

to be honest... i know jack about Diru... but i know i like their music...
i LIKE heavier stuff... so i like it...
and to me... it's seemed more like they've been going the way THEY want to go... and not just doing what their fans want to do....
mybe they were getting fed up of jusat having fans loving them fir their image... so dropped it to see if thier fans would still like them....

Kagrra, did the same... they've changed their image as well as their music... but... i think because they're still young (and Isshi's still obsessed with himself XD) they're still.... yeah...
but they still blatantly love performing their old stuff... Kotodama (their first single) is practically done in hevery concert ^.^

AND... Plastic Tree... they're been going for even longer than Diru... and have also dropped their visual... and calmed down a bit...
loads of peopel hate them... buti love the pants off them...


anyways, i'll shut up now before i'm eaten

it was really interesting to read ^.^

but thats only some bands. maybe you like them for their talent, but believe me, there are countless girls out there going"omg im such a fan of [insert band here] because they are SO pretty and kawaii!" and i've met people going "____ is so good and cute!" and i get some songs only to find that they are complete crap. they do exsist. the big bands make it big for a reason, like the ones you've mentioned, they have talent. but a lot of VK bands don't.

i also feel kind of bad that Kaidan feels this way because she was like the biggest Diru fan and in her opinion they've let her down.

 

[hebiichigo]

this topic makes me evil.

Of course the visual matters. It's exactly the same thing even for bands and artists that aren't visual. If they look good, they get a lot of support. If they look good, people will be interested..
I could name a few Visual Kei bands right now that don't deserve half the popularity they have because it's due to how 'cool' or 'hot' or 'cute' they look. And please no one say that it's a bad problem with the "Western" fans because the Japanese fans are just the same, if not worse.
I would be lying if I said I don't like the visual aspect. But if I don't like the music, even if it's the best looking band ever, I will not listen to them.

And seriously, Dir en grey's "old style"? Listen to their albums properly. The albums are each different. No one had a problem with the changes in their music until they stopped dressing up and 'looking good'. I like all of Dir en grey's music, but that's just my taste. I'd rather they kept changing than remaining stagnant and producing albums like GAUZE 5 more times.

It sures annoys me when I hear people who call themselves Dir en grey fans going on about how they've changed or how they should be. What makes them think they know what's best for the band?
Dir en grey lost fans in Visual Kei, but they gained them from elsewhere..

So yeah, the visual matters, but it's not the most important thing to me.

 

[Horizon]

i also feel kind of bad that Kaidan feels this way because she was like the biggest Diru fan and in her opinion they've let her down.

Well then...That's her fault, now isn't it? They're clearly doing what they themselves want to do. She should just accept it and either attempt to like their new sound(s) or just move on type of thing and stop hating so damn much type of thing.

Not to sound like a complete ***** here, but people like her don't really deserve feelings of sympathy or anything of the sort really.

 

[Horizon]

Of course the visual matters. It's exactly the same thing even for bands and artists that aren't visual. If they look good, they get a lot of support. If they look good, people will be interested..
I could name a few Visual Kei bands right now that don't deserve half the popularity they have because it's due to how 'cool' or 'hot' or 'cute' they look. And please no one say that it's a bad problem with the "Western" fans because the Japanese fans are just the same, if not worse.
I would be lying if I said I don't like the visual aspect. But if I don't like the music, even if it's the best looking band ever, I will not listen to them.

And seriously, Dir en grey's "old style"? Listen to their albums properly. The albums are each different. No one had a problem with the changes in their music until they stopped dressing up and 'looking good'. I like all of Dir en grey's music, but that's just my taste. I'd rather they kept changing than remaining stagnant and producing albums like GAUZE 5 more times.

It sures annoys me when I hear people who call themselves Dir en grey fans going on about how they've changed or how they should be. What makes them think they know what's best for the band?
Dir en grey lost fans in Visual Kei, but they gained them from elsewhere..

So yeah, the visual matters, but it's not the most important thing to me.

Yay! You're, like, my hero now! I can never figure out how to put what I think in the best possible way, but I pretty much think the same way as you do here, so, obviously enough, I agree heavily. Especially everything but the part about releasing GAUZE another 5 times. And that's only because I don't really know which songs are on which albums and stuff...

But, anyway, I thank you quite a bit for this and everything!

 

[mizerable_d]

And seriously, Dir en grey's "old style"? Listen to their albums properly. The albums are each different. No one had a problem with the changes in their music until they stopped dressing up and 'looking good'. I like all of Dir en grey's music, but that's just my taste. I'd rather they kept changing than remaining stagnant and producing albums like GAUZE 5 more times.

well visual things do have effect but it has nothing to do with talent.

now o: they still dressed up in Vulgar... yet i only like one half of the album. and i still love it when they play old songs such as cage and macabre in their normal, non-dressy clothing.

also i like Diru for changing too. i've like almost everything up till and including Six Ugly, and Vulgar was pretty nice too, but not as impressive as the complex composing of Macabre. when Withering came out, it's like "o my this sounds like Vulgar!". my problem is that they stopped changing music wise.

 

[lastmagi]

Thanks for the thread. This brings me to a related point I've been wanting to address in ages. Take a look at the other threads in this subforum. They're all littered with posts upon posts dedicated to pictures or talk of some kind of visuals (usually VK-ers): "cutest pic of any jrocker" "the manliest jrock thread" "A poll for the prettiest Jrockers" "most girlish jrockers" "Gackt is ugly" etc. Even if the threads' titles aren't picture-thread indicators, the posts still tend towards uploading huge amounts of unneccessary pictures (like the Gazette one). Is it because some look "cool" that I'm supposed to be interested? Does this serve as some indication as to where the fanbase of Japanese Rock and Pop is heading? I've personally tried out bands that looked "cool" and the looks hardly are enough to keep me in.

Anyway, there's been some kind of strange trend to make this kind of false assumption, that:

indies/old era bands = VK = cutecuteCUTE!!! = better

despite the innovations that the bands might have made to improve their music. To me, this seems disrespectful that one would so easily choose to like a band just because of their visuals. (of course, people like bands regardless of both talented music and visuals, but that's another story).

And also what Horizon said. (I actually also like Diru's newer and improved music than their older works.)

 

[mizerable_d]

Well then...That's her fault, now isn't it? They're clearly doing what they themselves want to do. She should just accept it and either attempt to like their new sound(s) or just move on type of thing and stop hating so damn much type of thing.

Not to sound like a complete ***** here, but people like her don't really deserve feelings of sympathy or anything of the sort really.

i meant i feel bad that she doesn't like Diru anymore like she should.

but that girl knows music. man does she know music... i got some songs from her and i like almost everything she's sent me.

 

[mizerable_d]

Thanks for the thread. This brings me to a related point I've been wanting to address in ages. Take a look at the other threads in this subforum. They're all littered with posts upon posts dedicated to pictures or talk of some kind of visuals (usually VK-ers): "cutest pic of any jrocker" "the manliest jrock thread" "A poll for the prettiest Jrockers" "most girlish jrockers" "Gackt is ugly" etc. Even if the threads' titles aren't picture-thread indicators, the posts still tend towards uploading huge amounts of unneccessary pictures (like the Gazette one). Is it because some look "cool" that I'm supposed to be interested? Does this serve as some indication as to where the fanbase of Japanese Rock and Pop is heading? I've personally tried out bands that looked "cool" and the looks hardly are enough to keep me in.

And also what Horizon said. (I actually also like Diru's newer and improved music than their older works.)

well see, everytime some thread about non-VK stuff is posted, it gets eaten up. so what's the point?

also i believe Diru imporved skill wise. they are so talented yet their composing isnt as complex as they had before. that's my problem with their new stuff. other than that, DeG is god.

 

[Horizon]

i meant i feel bad that she doesn't like Diru anymore like she should.

but that girl knows music. man does she know music... i got some songs from her and i like almost everything she's sent me.

If she hates a band just for changing their style, that's just sad...

 

[rose_of_eternity]

well see, everytime some thread about non-VK stuff is posted, it gets eaten up. so what's the point?

also i believe Diru imporved skill wise. they are so talented yet their composing isnt as complex as they had before. that's my problem with their new stuff. other than that, DeG is god.

Diru ish my god -is listening to them now- iono I dont think its all visual... yes Kyo is an adorable kitty, and Shinya and Toshiya are beautiful, and Die... well hes to die for and Kaoru is sexy, but I love their music, old and new -_-; Theyre one of my fav bands, and they have music that really makes me all emotional and stuff ok I'm done ranting -runs away and hides in a dark pit-