Pronouncing R in japanese
- Thread starter Razahia
- Start date
Angel Valis
黒川
- 15 Jul 2010
- 290
- 27
Okay. The Japanese "R" is made by placing the tip of the tongue on the alveolar ridge (the bumpy ridge behind your top front teeth) in about the same place as when making a "T" sound. Then try, from that position, to make an English "L" sound.
According to Wikipedia, the Japanese "R" varies between a retroflex flap and an alveolar lateral flap. Here are some links to those pages.
Retroflex flap
Alveolar lateral flap
There's an audio clip of someone saying "ramen" on the Alveolar lateral flap page.
EDIT: Later when I get home, I'll try to upload a recording of me saying the sounds so that native speakers can determine if I really know what I'm talking about haha.
According to Wikipedia, the Japanese "R" varies between a retroflex flap and an alveolar lateral flap. Here are some links to those pages.
Retroflex flap
Alveolar lateral flap
There's an audio clip of someone saying "ramen" on the Alveolar lateral flap page.
EDIT: Later when I get home, I'll try to upload a recording of me saying the sounds so that native speakers can determine if I really know what I'm talking about haha.
- Thread starter
- #3
Been practicing and when I try it L just seems like L to me. And trying to say a word like yoru(Night) Breaks my tounge trying to quickly get that tongue position. I assume thats just muscle practice, i don't believe I'm getting the right sound though. Unsure
Tamayo
先輩
- 15 Jan 2013
- 379
- 54
Just to be clear, is the "R" sound ALWAYS pronounced this way?
For example, if you say よろしく quickly, is it still a subtle mix of the "L" and "R" sound, or is it like a very soft "D"? I've been pronouncing it as a mix of a soft English "D" and "R". My biggest issue with this sound is when it comes at the beginning of a word, like レストラン, where it often sounds like "Lesutoran", "Resutoran", and even "Desutoran".
If it IS pronounced this way no matter how quickly you say it, then I've been making a lot of mistakes.
For example, if you say よろしく quickly, is it still a subtle mix of the "L" and "R" sound, or is it like a very soft "D"? I've been pronouncing it as a mix of a soft English "D" and "R". My biggest issue with this sound is when it comes at the beginning of a word, like レストラン, where it often sounds like "Lesutoran", "Resutoran", and even "Desutoran".
If it IS pronounced this way no matter how quickly you say it, then I've been making a lot of mistakes.
MajinSatoshi
後輩
- 8 Jun 2013
- 1
- 0
Some people pronounce it differently. I have heard japanese people pronounce it as both an l,r as well as something in between. I have also heard it pronounced between an "r" and a "d" or a "d" and an "l". It just depends on accent. They know what you mean.
- 27 Nov 2012
- 1,689
- 1,086
I've found the easiest way to describe it is to place your tongue in the 'd' position, and try to make an 'r'. In American English, the tongue doesn't touch when making an r, and on top of that, it's not a percussive sound. It's easy to say rrrrrrr (like Ben Kingsly in Iron Man 3 
). The Japanese 'r' touches the top, and it is a flick of the tongue, that can't be extended.
I've heard Americans say it sounds like d, and I never really heard them as similar, but making them is in a similar position. D presses a little more, but r flicks a little more.
Once you've got it, you can have it forever. Good luck!
). The Japanese 'r' touches the top, and it is a flick of the tongue, that can't be extended.I've heard Americans say it sounds like d, and I never really heard them as similar, but making them is in a similar position. D presses a little more, but r flicks a little more.
Once you've got it, you can have it forever. Good luck!
Angel Valis
黒川
- 15 Jul 2010
- 290
- 27
Try not to press too hard into the "R" position. It's considered a flap, so your tongue just has to flick into and out of the position quickly. An English language example of a flap is how when we say "water" quickly, it sounds like "wadder". You can also try to relax a bit on the positioning and use the blade of the tongue rather than the tip.
"T" and "D" sounds are articulated in the same position in English, so it's not surprising that Japanese "R", which is articulated in a similar position, could occasionally sound to English speakers like a "D". The only difference between "T" and "D" in English is that "D" is voiced whereas "T" is voiceless.
- Thread starter
- #8
Well ain't this difficult. How do you tell when you've said it right?
- 27 Nov 2012
- 1,689
- 1,086
Well, you have to listen to a lot of Japanese. If you can't say it at all, it's hard to recognize. Once you have it roughly right, it starts to stand out more. It's a weird phenomena, where it's really hard to hear until you can make it yourself.
But to ask people if you're doing it right on the Internet? We don't know what sound you're making.
It is very difficult for most adults to create new sounds with their mouth without a lot of conscious effort, but it can be done.
- Thread starter
- #10
Ah alright. Sadly I don't really have japanese people around to listen to them speaking the R sound so it's kind of difficult for me to practice the R when i don't know if i'm even saying it right.
/sigh.
Angel Valis
黒川
- 15 Jul 2010
- 290
- 27
If you want, you could record yourself and post it here. There are quite a few native speakers here as well as those who have been learning/speaking it for some time and can at least give you some idea if it sounds good.
Sorry that I haven't gotten around to making a recording of myself...I just wasn't up for it last night.
- Thread starter
- #13
Angel Valis
黒川
- 15 Jul 2010
- 290
- 27
If you click on "Go Advanced" there's an icon that looks like a paperclip that you can use to attach files to a post.
Angel Valis
黒川
- 15 Jul 2010
- 290
- 27
How big is the file? Looks like you can only upload a small amount; for me it says 14MB.
EDIT: You could also try to upload to another site such as mediafire and then give us the link.
EDIT: You could also try to upload to another site such as mediafire and then give us the link.
- Thread starter
- #17
Well I made two files. Both sound horrid to me but whatever.
japanese 1.wma
japanese 2.wma
japanese 3
EDIT: Added a third one. Trying to practice. Thanks to the people who've been helping me in this post
japanese 1.wma
japanese 2.wma
japanese 3
EDIT: Added a third one. Trying to practice. Thanks to the people who've been helping me in this post
Last edited:
- 22 Feb 2008
- 18,266
- 4,926
"Re" in 1 and "ro" in 2 are good. The two "ri"s both sound "i" to me.
- Thread starter
- #20
japanese 5.wma
I've been practicing a bit and I think that sounds a bit closer to me, But what do I know.
This is driving me insane xD
I've been practicing a bit and I think that sounds a bit closer to me, But what do I know.
This is driving me insane xD
- 22 Feb 2008
- 18,266
- 4,926
"Ru re ro" in 3 are good. "Ra" tends to be too trilling, and "ri" is too close to "l" in English.
- Thread starter
- #22
Ah ok. What about the fifth one.
I'm going to assume all of them are terrible in it.
Thanks again
- 22 Feb 2008
- 18,266
- 4,926
#3 is better than #5.
Unlike "ra", "ru", "re", "ro", the place of articulation of "ri" is palatal, which means it is articulated with the middle or back part of the tongue raised to the hard palate. That's why your "ri"s sound like "i" or "li".
Alveolo-palatal consonant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Unlike "ra", "ru", "re", "ro", the place of articulation of "ri" is palatal, which means it is articulated with the middle or back part of the tongue raised to the hard palate. That's why your "ri"s sound like "i" or "li".
Alveolo-palatal consonant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
- Thread starter
- #24
Ah ok, Ra and Ri seem to be the major problem for me, I've uploaded another one. Practice makes perfect I suppose.
japanese 6.wma
EDIT: Uploading another one since i've been practicing all day. It's really difficult to get that sound
japanese 8
Last edited:
- 22 Feb 2008
- 18,266
- 4,926
The third set in the file #8 is the best one among those.
How about to practice to pronounce actual words that contain "r" sounds? "R"s at the beginning of a word and the ones in the middle or at the end of a word are slightly different. The pronunciation we are talking about here is for the former ones.
How about to practice to pronounce actual words that contain "r" sounds? "R"s at the beginning of a word and the ones in the middle or at the end of a word are slightly different. The pronunciation we are talking about here is for the former ones.
