Rewriting History Again "Japan to Revise Books on WWII Suicides"

That's naive. Do you really believe that American soldiers, in the heat battle, never raped and killed any enemy non-combatants, never killed enemy soldiers attempting to surrender? These atrocities seem modest compared with the indiscriminate bombings on major cities, but nevertheless, they were inevitable part of the battle, and they did happen, historians say. During the war, the sadistic acts of enemy soldiers were propagandized, but after the war, it's just that tight censorship controlled how much the media could report, and people do not talk about the incidents as much.

Reference: Saburo Ienaga
: Senso Sekinin

I have little doubt that it might have happened, but rape, killing civilians and POW's were all offences that were court martial-able, while similar tales made the newspapers in Japan declaring the same soldiers as courageous heros.
 
That's naive. Do you really believe that American soldiers, in the heat battle, never raped and killed any enemy non-combatants

In the "heat" of battle I doubt any soldier from any military raped anyone. Never killed any non-combatants, well that is a well known fact that nearly every military in the history of the world is guilty of. That is one of the saddest things about war, is the non-combatant casualties.

That sad....once again....this thread is not about American soldiers and what they did or did not do, and I am 100% sure you know that. Tiring to say the least.

Technically soldiers cannot "order" civilians to do anything. In English anyway,

However here in Japan during WWII they could and did order civilians about quite regularly.

But you need to remember that soldiers gave grenades to civilians for the purpose of committing suicide - which on its own is a huge breach of protocol, unless they were ordered to hand it over, in which case the Army has in essence ordered and sanctioned the action. Its like giving a gun with one bullet to a desperate and depressed individual - you know what is going to happen, you are equally responsible.
As I wrote here somewhere previously civilians would have been shot if they had proffered the grenades on their own, they were supplied not only to be used in the case of their own suicide, but also to take as many of the "enemy" with them as they committed suicide.

That is part of the reason that the US Military was forced in defending itself from reguard actions against them into using flame throwers to burn out people left in caves, crevices, and in some cases graves as well.

The US had experienced numerous casualties from people running out of the caves screaming and launching themselves as human bombs into the assembled soldiers or Marines at the mouth or entrance area of the caves.

Did the Japanese soldiers truly believe the Americans were hell-bent on pillaging the Okinawan populace?
I doubt it, but at the time the Japanese soldiers and civilian population of Japan believed that they were not only fighting for their country but their Emperor as well, and to die in his service was honorable and just, vs having to live with the shame of defeat of capture. However Okinawan's not being totally ingrained with the same beliefs or doctrine, but believing the Japanese soldiers and the governments propaganda at the time, followed along at their orders.
 
Here is another article that people may find interesting to read.


Historians Battle Over Okinawa

TOKYO (Reuters) - Sumie Oshiro was 25 when she and her friends tried to kill themselves to avoid capture by U.S. soldiers at the start of the bloody Battle of Okinawa.

"We were told that if women were taken prisoner we would be raped and that we should not allow ourselves to be captured," Oshiro said on last month's anniversary of the March 26, 1945, invasion of the Japanese islet of Zamami.

"Four of us tried to commit suicide with one hand grenade, but it did not go off," Ryukyu Shimpo, a local Okinawa newspaper, quoted Oshiro as saying at a gathering of now elderly survivors.

The fighting on Zamami, south of the main Okinawan island, was the prelude to three months of carnage that took some 200,000 lives, about half of them Okinawan men, women and children.

Many civilians, often entire families, committed suicide rather than surrender to Americans, by some accounts on the orders of fanatical Japanese soldiers.

"The army ordered them to commit suicide," said Yoshikazu Miyazato, 58, who plans to publish testimony from survivors on Zamami, where he says suicides accounted for 180 of the 404 civilians -- about half of the islet's population -- who died.

The accuracy of such accounts, however, has been questioned by conservative historians who argue the suicides were voluntary.

Late last month, the education ministry ordered publishers of high school textbooks to modify references to Japanese soldiers ordering civilians to kill themselves.

The textbook revisions echo other efforts by conservatives to revise descriptions of Japan's wartime actions, including Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's denial that the military or government hauled women away to serve as sex slaves for Japanese soldiers in Asia before and during World War Two.

Abe has sought to dampen overseas outrage over his remarks by repeating his backing for a 1993 apology to the "comfort women," as they are known in Japan, and offering his own brief apology.

"In every case, Abe's administration is saying there was no military involvement," Shoukichi Kina, an opposition lawmaker from Okinawa told Reuters in a phone interview.

"They are distorting history and it is unforgiveable."

"WORSE THAN DEVILS"

One reason cited for the revisions was a lawsuit by a former Japanese army officer and relatives of another charging the two men were was falsely described in works by publisher Iwanami Shoten as having ordered civilian suicides in Okinawa.

That prompted the publisher and Nobel Prize-winning author Kenzaburo Oe to send a letter of protest to the education ministry, criticizing the fact that only the views of the plaintiffs in the court case had been taken into account.

The Battle of Okinawa, which also took the lives of about 94,000 Japanese soldiers and more than 12,000 Americans, looms large in the collective memory of inhabitants of the island -- a separate kingdom until its monarch was exiled to Tokyo in 1879.

The battle, in which up to one-third of Okinawa's inhabitants died, has been described as a futile sacrifice ordered by Japan's military leaders to delay a U.S. invasion of the mainland.

Masahide Ota, a former governor of Okinawa who fought as a member of a "Blood and Iron Corps" of students mobilized to defend the island, says soldiers gave civilians two hand grenades -- "one to throw at the enemy and one to use on themselves."

Many historians and survivors blame military propaganda that sought to convince civilians they faced rape and torture if captured by Americans, as well as an education system that taught the virtue of dying for an emperor who was considered a living god.

"They were taught that Americans were fiends, worse than devils, and that if women were caught they would be raped and men would be killed," Miyazato said. "It was the same as ordering them to commit suicide. They were taught it was better to die.

Ota, a historian as well as a member of parliament, fears the lessons of Japan's wartime past are in danger of being lost.

"Education has the responsibility to convey history accurately to our children so that our country does not repeat the tragedy of the Pacific war," he said in a statement.

"Textbooks are one method of fulfilling that mission. I think that is being forgotten."
 
The army ordered them to commit suicide," said Yoshikazu Miyazato, 58, who plans to publish testimony from survivors on Zamami, where he says suicides accounted for 180 of the 404 civilians -- about half of the islet's population -- who died.
so , Were they given any fair compensation.
if not ,why?
in akamatusu case, fair compensation was given, why did not they do?
why now?

In Zamami case , a girl ,Niyazato mieko at that time did testimony

I said "When we wanted to commit suicide, I asked the principal"
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Any translation on this article?
Hiya there! That's what the following basically is:
me said:
Since not everyone can follow the Japanese in the evidence presented thus far...

There are something like 17 textbooks that are on display at Naha, comparing the same page before and after the revising. The example that is given is a change in wording from "(the people) were forced by the Japanese military" to commit suicide to "(the people) were cornered into" committing suicide.

There is indeed mention of hand grenades in the evidence presented, and no one is denying where they came from, but in the revised textbook it just isn't mentioned where they might have come from.

The video does show a demonstration against the proposed change to the textbook, with a man quoted as saying, "The military said, 'Don't become captives of the American army! If it looks like you will, kill yourself instead!' That was the Japanese military and the country's order. We must strongly oppose anyone who would try to twist history!" This man is described at "someone who experienced events" in the onscreen text.

Aside from the demonstrators in the news video, the articles themselves do not take a side. They matter of factly describe what is happening, from the exhibit of the textbooks to the mayor of Naha describing the change as "regrettable" to the demonstrations themselves.
 
the schema of arter war is cruel Japanese army and " the order and forced" by army.
it is a propaganda of Nikkyoso,commie , Ooe and some foreigners who transformed to leftist intention when coming to Japan.


Man thinks that a cheap conviction in the peaceful age that won't be killed himself is a cause if an outside factor like the instruction of the army etc. doesn't exist.
A cheap diagram of compulsion by a martial instruction might be able to turn one's eyes away from the truth of the mass suicide in the Okinawa war rather.

I hope to know the truth in the Ooe and Iwanami's trial
 
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"They were taught that Americans were fiends, worse than devils, and that if women were caught they would be raped and men would be killed," Miyazato said. "It was the same as ordering them to commit suicide. They were taught it was better to die."

Whats the difference between being told by an Army Officer "Its better to die that be captured" and "You should die rather than be captured"?

so , Were they given any fair compensation.
if not ,why?

The why is obvious.
 
Yeah, even witness and survivors did not think it was ordered and forced.
it was natural....

Caster there is nothing natural in war, particularly this issue of suicide. Caster go on believing what you want, I live here in Okinawa and I know these people pretty well, I am not arrogant to say I know everything, but I know quite a bit about the people and let me share something with you about them. I doubt that you will truly pay attention but here goes anyhow, they are a quiet and docile community by nature, abbhorant of violence and peaceful. Welcoming to all vistors and extrememly friendly and honest.

Caster the people giving their testimonies and leading the demonstrations against these changes are honest, believe what you want to believe, but this issue is far from over and is going to get bigger and bigger before too long.


Wait and watch.

Any translation on this article?
Hiya there! That's what the following basically is:
Thank you.
 
...
Caster the people giving their testimonies and leading the demonstrations against these changes are honest, believe what you want to believe, but this issue is far from over and is going to get bigger and bigger before too long.
Wait and watch.
Thank you.

ツ抗窶ケcツ渉絶?督シ窶啣窶毒凪?啗窶啀窶啖窶啖ツ人窶堙可/ツ「ツ集窶冂ナスツゥナ塚?」ツ修ツ青ウ
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http://www.okinawatimes.co.jp/day/200706081300_03.html
Collected 28177 signatures against the revise
18000 out of 28177 signatures comes from outside Okinawa. Japan Teacher Union mainly collected them.
I am not surprised if they would collect millions of it, for there are tons of voters supporting JCP, SDPJ, or whatever.
It must scare me if all people in Okinawa would be anti-US base activists.

Caster there is nothing natural in war
Right. Many died in the war, but the real tragedy in this matter is that people had to survive even after they killed their families after the war, therefore they needed the reason, that is, to claim it had been the military order.
Ask your wife to read the Sono's book. It tells her or you that the war was terrible even it was not the military order or even after the war.
 
Collected 28177 signatures against the revise
18000 out of 28177 signatures comes from outside Okinawa. Japan Teacher Union mainly collected them.

Whats you're point - are you saying if they aren't Okinawan, their opinions don't count? Ultimately it is teachers who have to use these books, and apparently at least 18,000 don't agree with it.

Many died in the war, but the real tragedy in this matter is that people had to survive even after they killed their families after the war, therefore they needed the reason, that is, to claim it had been the military order.
Ask your wife to read the Sono's book. It tells her or you that the war was terrible even it was not the military order or even after the war.

So you are claiming it is the fault of the survivors families that they died!? Whoa, would love to see you say that to the face of someone who lost family in the war.
 
I have little doubt that it might have happened, but rape, killing civilians and POW's were all offences that were court martial-able, while similar tales made the newspapers in Japan declaring the same soldiers as courageous heros.
Like which newspapers in Japan said that raping and killing civilians were courageous acts? :eek:

These acts were penal offenses in the IJA
back then, but then again violence is an inevitable part of war. (cf. military laws 海軍刑法/陸軍刑法. ) After all, the IJA was developed with foreign assistance, much of it was modeled after France and Germany.
 
And Yes that article is a very good place to start. In wartime it is a case of Kill or be Killed, and most soldiers understand that, but to make it into a contest of killing as many as you can and to turn it into some sort of race, is in my view Wrong.

And I am afraid to say that I think the execution of the two Officers was justified. To me there is something very wrong in cutting off the head of a Chinese farmer just so that your tally of dead can exceed your opponents.
 
I found this part of the article to be especially interesting:
wikipedia said:
Bob Tadashi Wakabayashi, who, in 2000, undertook one of the most comprehensive studies of the incident ever conducted, reached the conclusion that "the killing contest itself was a fabricated story", but served as a positive influence in Japanese culture, making the Japanese more aware of some of the wartime atrocities that had actually been conducted by the Imperial Japanese Army.
 
video of Tokashiki's survivors and teruya's exposure

japanese soldiers said " Civilians should not commit suicide . get away here to safe place"






sorry Japanese language only
 
Whats you're point - are you saying if they aren't Okinawan, their opinions don't count? Ultimately it is teachers who have to use these books, and apparently at least 18,000 don't agree with it.
So you are claiming it is the fault of the survivors families that they died!? Whoa, would love to see you say that to the face of someone who lost family in the war.

Ewok85, force your wife to read the book.
Your wife and you can find the deep-rooted reason.
 
Ewok85, force your wife to read the book.
Your wife and you can find the deep-rooted reason.

My wife hasn't got any interest in reading it, and I wouldn't force her anyway.

How about you just tell me the deep-rooted reason that so many Okinawan survivors of WWII say that Imperial Japanese Army soldiers and officers told them to kill themselves, and are in your opinion apparently lying?
 
OK, but don't forget that it is unfair if you call Japanese women are stupid in the future, just because your wife is not interested in history or whatever.

It might have been happier if the Japanese/US solders or officers killed them, but in the alleged suicide case, the survivors could survive because they had not been killed by their family members or neighbors.

About the Union, it has been a long mystery for me that you can find tons of anti-Japan or US propaganda, but no anti-PRC, DPRK or commies propaganda even in the caricature section.
http://www.jtu-net.or.jp/colume/pic_news/series/series22.html
http://www.jtu-net.or.jp/colume/pic_news/series/series09.html

Anyways, I will not be surprised even if they or another union supporting JCP will collect hundreds of thoudsands of the petition.
 
My wife is an adult. This book is for children. She has already read a similar book, and we all know what was written in the old versions, as well as the new.

And the links you gave aren't propaganda, its caricatures and political comments.
 
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