Why Japan does not need to apologize to Korea

[Aerain]

I really think it is meaningless to make excuse for something your country did in the past to another one. I mean you don't have to excuse yourself because your grand father killed someone. Anyway, that is what I think, but my sister don't think so and thinks Japan should really apologize to Korea for thing it did in the past, because she feels bad for them and "because she is Korean"... War is war and thing happens... Its too bad but life goes on... Feelings we have for our country is stupid, we should get over it...

 

[GodEmperorLeto]

This is a deeply depressing thread. To see people are still slugging this out months after it was first opened is somewhat disheartening, to say the least.

I'm somewhat honored that caster51 would invoke my name (while I was purposely avoiding this thread) and demand "bad facts" or somesuch from me.

Anyway, there is no excuse for a country to not own up to what it has done in the past unless it plans on doing it again, and even then, there is no reason not to own up. My country has done a slew of rotten things to indigeonous peoples from the Jersey Shore to the beaches of California, and you'll find it in our high school textbooks, because knowing what reprehensible actions we've committed makes us more aware and teaches us to avoid them in the future.

That's why Abu Ghraib was criticized so severely here in the United States. The liberals, the media, young people, all cried out against what was going on. The things we've done are the sort of things many Americans would not like to see repeated.

Apparently this is not so with Japan.

As for apologizing, the Japanese of today owe no one an apology. Very few of the Nanking Rapists are alive today, and their numbers further dwindle each year that passes. The Korean and Chinese victims of Japanese aggression are also dwindling. It is an event that should have had an apology 30 years ago, maybe, but not now. It would be too little, too late.

Best to educate yourselves and move on with life. But that does mean owning up to what was done in the past, instead of burying it. It isn't the lack of an apology that I find wrong with Japan. It is Japan's refusal to recognize what has been done that I find reprehensible. You cannot grow and improve as a person or culture unless you face your past and deal with it.

 

[caster51]

I'm somewhat honoured that caster51 would invoke my name (while I was purposely avoiding this thread) and demand "bad facts" or somesuch from me.

As for the fact that annexes Korea, it is very regrettable for me first that is today's idea..
Even the bad Fact was Good fact at that time.
most Foreign countries evaluated as a great thing.
It was also a fact.
However, it is not today's thought.
WHICH fact is true?

Japan & Taiwan: Bilateral relations

I think the relation of Japan and Taiwan is very good. The Japanese feel Taiwanese is a like brother I think They are evaluating Japan reasonable though There are their independence issues in the background. . The relation between prewar days is the same as Korea. I think korea was...

jref.com

The things we've done are the sort of things many Americans would not like to see repeated.

the thing we have done had a reason at least
I think the Phenomenon( result) is nothing.
that is, many Japanese want to take out the seeds of Phenomenon that would not like to see repeated
Terrorism and retribution are linked as reason and result.,reason.and.........................
HOW can cut this Link?
If the cause is not understood, it is meaningless.
many Americans will repeat it...

 

[YAPONLUQ]

Question : Why Japan does not need to apologize to Korea?

Answer : Because Japan had already apologized in formal way.

-------------------------------------------------------------

I have a question,
Why does Korea ask Japan for apology so often?
Is it one of a means they take to be politicaly superior to Japan?

 

[KirinMan]

The liberals, the media, young people, all cried out against what was going on. The things we've done are the sort of things many Americans would not like to see repeated.

And not just the liberal's but many conservatives as well. You make the point very well. American is getting better at being critical of itself, it has a long ways to go but at least by keeping things out in the open instead of continually denying and hiding it's faults shows the strength of the country as a whole.

To openly acknowledge one's faults in the open is a sign of strength not weakness. It would be nice to see Japan do that with regards to it's own recent history, particularly the era of the Korean Annexation, WWII, the "Comfort Women" Issue along with a few others as well.

Question : Why Japan does not need to apologize to Korea?
Answer : Because Japan had already apologized in formal way.

While that may be true, it sure makes those apologies seem hypocritical when the government is continually attempting to rewrite students history books to white wash the era in it's entirety. Future generations of Japanese people will forever be in the dark about what actually happened in Japanese history. One really can not blame the people throughout Asia in thinking that any apology from Japan is false.

the thing we have done had a reason at least
I think the Phenomenon( result) is nothing.
that is, many japanese want to take out the seeds of Phenomenon that would not like to see repeated

??????? Just what is the "phenomenon" you are refering to here?
Also Caster this is the 2nd time I am asking you these questions here;

In the case of the Naking (Rape of?) Incident, what do you, Caster, think occured?

Also is it a figment of everyones imagination that so many people were killed?
Lastly if it wasn't the Japanese that were responsible for what occured who logically could be blamed?

If the cause is not understood, it is meaning less.
many Japanese will repeat it....

You know what is saddest, and I highly doubt that I will live to see this happen but I fear Japan is destined to repeat it's past because it can not admit what it did previously was wrong.

"Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It" I fear that someday Japan will endevour to create the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere again, this time with much more terrifying results for the nation as a whole.

 

[caster51]

You know what is saddest, and I highly doubt that I will live to see this happen but I fear Japan is destined to repeat it's past because it can not admit what it did previously was wrong

" you should look at Japanese today's reality"
you are still in the sinoceterism because you are still in the past.
and you are depending on past too much and judge.
are you chinese or korean?
LOOK at Japanese constitution.
Even japanese Sovereignty is abandoned by the constitution because of apology

Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It" I fear that someday Japan will endevour to create the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere again, this time with much more terrifying results for the nation as a whole

.
the human being history is the history of WAR
we cant avoid it.
In generaly, It is not because Japan repeats it.
An important thing is to avoid the similarity that became the cause.
It is not avoided by learning a cruel thing.
all we know what cruel thing is ....

 

[diceke]

And not just the liberal's but many conservatives as well. You make the point very well. American is getting better at being critical of itself, it has a long ways to go but at least by keeping things out in the open instead of continually denying and hiding it's faults shows the strength of the country as a whole.
To openly acknowledge one's faults in the open is a sign of strength not weakness. It would be nice to see Japan do that with regards to it's own recent history, particularly the era of the Korean Annexation, WWII, the "Comfort Women" Issue along with a few others as well.

This is a good sign that Americans are learning how to apologize from the Japanese. But the US has a long way to go when it comes to war responsibilities.


Mainichi Daily News "All apologies: the U.S. handles damage-control the Japanese way -- by saying sorry"

http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/features/archive/news/2006/01/20060125p2g00m0fe039000c.html

 

[KirinMan]

This is a good sign that Americans are learning how to apologize from the Japanese.

Actually you took that wrong, I hope that Japan will learn from the US and how it looks at it's own history. It took a long time but at least in the US we openly acknowledge many of the wrongs of our past.

Japan has a long way to go.

 

[diceke]

Actually you took that wrong, I hope that Japan will learn from the US and how it looks at it's own history. It took a long time but at least in the US we openly acknowledge many of the wrongs of our past.
Japan has a long way to go.

You could have easily pointed out the faults the US hasn't owned up to, just like you do about Japan, but for some reason you don't. You choose Japan to pick on. Nobody can do anything about it.

 

[caster51]

Actually you took that wrong, I hope that Japan will learn from the US and how it looks at it's own history. It took a long time but at least in the US we openly acknowledge many of the wrongs of our past

However they are repeating that

 

[KirinMan]

You could have easily pointed out the faults the US hasn't owned up to, just like you do about Japan, but for some reason you don't. You choose Japan to pick on. Nobody can do anything about it.

This happens to be a Japan Forum not one about the United States, you might want to try to remember that. Oh and perhaps you didnt know this but btw I happen to live in Japan and have been for quite a number of years now.

However they are repeating that

That's true, and how very sadly so.

 

[diceke]

This happens to be a Japan Forum not one about the United States, you might want to try to remember that.

So don't you ever tell bullshit like how much the US has owned up to the past, and how Japan could learn from the US. That's crap.

 

[KirinMan]

So don't you ever tell bullshit like how much the US has owned up to the past, and how Japan could learn from the US. That's crap.

Listen first off if you can't refrain from swearing here and having a reasonable discussion I would suggest not responding at all.

I also suggest that you take the time to read what I wrote.

Umm Japan could learn something as well from Germany as well.

The German education system focuses on teaching about the Holocaust and the Third Reich and denounces the crimes committed during World War II. Additionally, German legislation outlaws Nazi works like Mein Kampf and makes Holocaust denial a criminal offence. Furthermore, even other symbols of Nazism, like the Swastika and so-called "Hitler Salute", are illegal in Germany.

German war crimes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Since the two countries were allies it seems appropriate to include this here. Germany has been praised for its open acknowledgement of its past. It would be nice to see Japan do the same.

 

[diceke]

Listen first off if you can't refrain from swearing here and having a reasonable discussion I would suggest not responding at all.
Arguing and using language like this here just makes you look really, really, bad. Profanity is not allowed here.

Ok, go ahead, report my post.

 

[KirinMan]

Ok, go ahead, report my post.

I'm sure that others will take care of it for me.

 

[junjunforever]

the worst thing U.S. ever did in its history is the near massacre of American Indians, and they still own up to American Indians, giving them tax breaks and other privileges. That happened 200 years ago.

60 years ago, Japan did the same to China, and we have Japanese politicians rewrite the history books, saying japan did nothing wrong and it was just part of a global war. Of course, the Prime minister, despite the protest of all its neighboring nations, insists and defy everyone and go to the grave of the executed criminal and pays tribute.

Really, nomatter how terrible america may seem, she is an angel compared to the hypocrisy of Japanese politicians.

No nation is perfect, but from a scale of 1 to 10, U.S. owning is 7, and Japan owning up would be 3.

 

[hanachan]

the worst thing U.S. ever did in its history is the near massacre of American Indians, and they still own up to American Indians, giving them tax breaks and other privileges. That happened 200 years ago.

the worst thing U.S. ever did in its history?
Why do you ignore Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
I think that it is nonsense to compare Japan with the US... by such way.
by the way...
Do you know the fact that Japan gives "zainichi" Koreans tax breaks and other privileges?
We Japanese have made mistakes in the past. As you say, no nation is perfect.
I know Japan is not perfect. If no nation is perfect, China and Korea can't be perfect. Are you agree with that? But...
Sometimes I feel empty. Only Japan is so bad?
Only Japanese rewrites its history? China and Korea are always saying truth?
Their textbooks are really true? (China says that the US invaded Korea and the war occurred, right?)
Under the Japan rules, there were Diet member, general and officers (one of them became President later) from Korean peninsula. Were they erased from Korean history? Do you know that? (I want to ask all of you here)

 

[Aerain]

the worst thing U.S. ever did in its history?
Why do you ignore Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
I think that it is nonsense to compare Japan with the US... by such way.
by the way...
Do you know the fact that Japan gives "zainichi" Koreans tax breaks and other privileges?
We Japanese have made mistakes in the past. As you say, no nation is perfect.
I know Japan is not perfect. If no nation is perfect, China and Korea can't be perfect. Are you agree with that? But...
Sometimes I feel empty. Only Japan is so bad?
Only Japanese rewrites its history? China and Korea are always saying truth?
Their textbooks are really true? (China says that the US invaded Korea and the war occurred, right?)
Under the Japan rules, there were Diet member, general and officers (one of them became President later) from Korean peninsula. Were they erased from Korean history? Do you know that? (I want to ask all of you here)

I think we shouldn't subsume the nation with their people; and stop refering to history to justify hatred against each other... I don't know if anyone shares the same feeling, but I wish people would, people often generalise, so do I, and often are misleaded in their narrow conception of reality...

 

[GodEmperorLeto]

This is pathetic.

diceke, you give evidence that you are just another U.S.-hating troll, like so many others. You and many others love to go pointing fingers at the United States. Well, go ahead, fine, but be aware that most of the intelligent forumgoers are going to see you for the troll that you are and ignore your uneducated and ignorant comments.

the worst thing U.S. ever did in its history?
Why do you ignore Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Umm, no. The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is far from the worst thing we've ever done. In loss of life and damage of property, the fire-bombings of Kyoto and Tokyo were worse. And honestly, Germany was pounded worse than Japan was by bombing raids. Indeed bombing civilian and industrial centers was very much a part of the Second World War, and perpetrated by both sides. If anything, the atomic attacks by the U.S. on Japan saved millions of both Japanese and American lives that would have been lost during Operation Downfall.

What was done to the Native Americans far outweighs anything that we've ever done to anyone else. Indeed, I'd wager it outweighs what Japan did to China and Korea, and it most certainly outweighs anything that Nazi Germany did to the Jews. Entire nations of people were wiped from the face of the planet by men like Andrew Jackson. In comparison, anything we have done to Japan seems like a minor insult. I'm sorry, but that's the case.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Nanking, and comfort-women are all an opportunity for people to go and play the victim card. "Oh, poor me, look how I was victimized". It is time to grow up. If you keep acting like a victim, you are leaving yourself open for someone to victimize you a second time.

 

[KirinMan]

What was done to the Native Americans far outweighs anything that we've ever done to anyone else. Indeed, I'd wager it outweighs what Japan did to China and Korea, and it most certainly outweighs anything that Nazi Germany did to the Jews. Entire nations of people were wiped from the face of the planet by men like Andrew Jackson. In comparison, anything we have done to Japan seems like a minor insult. I'm sorry, but that's the case.

At least in the US we acknowledge that these atrocities occured and keep them in the text books for future generations of children to learn about the bad along with the good of American history.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Nanking, and comfort-women are all an opportunity for people to go and play the victim card. "Oh, poor me, look how I was victimized". It is time to grow up. If you keep acting like a victim, you are leaving yourself open for someone to victimize you a second time.

However true this may be, ambigious responses by the current government causes many to question the sincerity of past responses to these issues. Future generations are going to be totally in the dark about their own countrys' history. Which I think would be the bigger crime.

 

[Aerain]

This is pathetic.
diceke, you give evidence that you are just another U.S.-hating troll, like so many others. You and many others love to go pointing fingers at the United States. Well, go ahead, fine, but be aware that most of the intelligent forumgoers are going to see you for the troll that you are and ignore your uneducated and ignorant comments.
Umm, no. The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is far from the worst thing we've ever done. In loss of life and damage of property, the fire-bombings of Kyoto and Tokyo were worse. And honestly, Germany was pounded worse than Japan was by bombing raids. Indeed bombing civilian and industrial centers was very much a part of the Second World War, and perpetrated by both sides. If anything, the atomic attacks by the U.S. on Japan saved millions of both Japanese and American lives that would have been lost during Operation Downfall.
What was done to the Native Americans far outweighs anything that we've ever done to anyone else. Indeed, I'd wager it outweighs what Japan did to China and Korea, and it most certainly outweighs anything that Nazi Germany did to the Jews. Entire nations of people were wiped from the face of the planet by men like Andrew Jackson. In comparison, anything we have done to Japan seems like a minor insult. I'm sorry, but that's the case.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Nanking, and comfort-women are all an opportunity for people to go and play the victim card. "Oh, poor me, look how I was victimized". It is time to grow up. If you keep acting like a victim, you are leaving yourself open for someone to victimize you a second time.

I don't know what the American did exactly to the native Americans, but I always thought that what the Nazi did to the Jews was by far the worse thing humanity has ever done, for example the case of torture on some Jewish captive were horrible, they would often castrate people without putting them on anaesthetic for application cost; or even worse, they would kill Jewish kids and women with pesticide in an enclosed bunker which I believe is the worst way to die. But number wise I think the Chinese communist government during Mao's regime committed far more execution than any other regime in human history. Nevertheless, I think we cannot really compare one event to another, because each of them is exceedingly horrible to a point it is almost rude to compare them. But, I understand hanachan's point of view, I think the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was the worst thing a civilised nation did to another, it not only hurt the pride of the nation, but also caused physical wounds by irradiation to its people for many generations.

 

[KirinMan]

I think the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was the worst thing a civilised nation did to another,

I hope you realize that you are using todays information to judge an event that happened over 60 years ago.

Hindsight is 20/20.

The United States from the Atlantic to the Pacific Ocean used to be filled with Native American's, it was the European settlers that pushed them back and along the way slaughtered thousands, just to create more space for the people emigrating from Europe. It is a very sad chapter of American history.

 

[hanachan]

In Japanese history, we took land away from people of "Ainu" (native of Hokkaido region). We learn about this at schools. It's similar to "Native American" case of your history.

But I want to know... How do you learn about the war against Mexico of 19th century? As a result of the war, the US got a very large territory including Texas and California, right? (if it is wrong, please correct)
If we know how you learn about the case like that, it would became a hint to solve the problem between Korea and Japan... I think.

And about Hiroshima and Nagasaki,
It happened 60 years ago, but never ends. A gene damaged by radioactive rays does not recover. The damage is continued eternally until a generation of a child and a grandchild in the future.
I'm not surprised that many Americans don't know this. A-bombs saved lots of American soldiers lives. That's a view of Americans.
It's difficult to write history between 2 countries with the same point of view.

Japanese doesn't hate the US and its people. We like you and your country. My father survived from fire bombing of Takamatsu on July 4th 1945. He was a kid then. He talks about that terrible night, but he never hates America.
We Japanese cannot keep mentality to continue hating for a long time.
We say "no more Hiroshima, Nagasaki", not "remember".

Sorry, it is out of the thread. but I wanted to say my feelings.

 

[KirinMan]

In Japanese history, we took land away from people of "Ainu" (native of Hokkaido region). We learn about this at schools. It's similar to "Native American" case of your history.

You have a selective memory, Japan also stole the Ryukyu Island from the Uchinanchu (Okinawan's).

I'm not surprised that many Americans don't know this. A-bombs saved lots of American soldiers lives. That's a view of Americans.

Americans are taught about the horror's of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, please don't assume otherwise, if you aren't sure it would be better to ask first.

Believe it or not the bombs ended up saving Japanese lives as well. Try to imagine the Battle of Okinawa from Kagoshima to Hokkaido , and you having to take a hand grenade and blowing yourself up at the orders of a Japanese soldier. Then you'll get the idea of the lives those two bombs saved. Lives on both sides of the war. Believe this two, if either Japan or German had the same bombs at the time, you know they would have used them too.

To educate people about the horrors of war and the atomic weapons is right and just.

We say "no more Hiroshima, Nagasaki", not "remember".

It's basically the same thing, it's semantics.

 

[hanachan]

Thanks for replying to me, Obeika.
You are very inteligent person. I like reading your writings.
But you always answer "selectively".

I wanted to know how you learn history that associates with other countries, for example, about the war against Mexico of 19th century.
It's difficult to write history between 2 countries with the same point of view.
It's also a problem of Korea and Japan.
The US and Japan has a same problem about WW2. However, both of us respect each viewpoint. Don't you think so?

Americans are taught about the horror's of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, please don't assume otherwise, if you aren't sure it would be better to ask first.

Yes, you really know that. But I thought that GodEmperorLeto had different opinion. I didn't put a bad meaning to my writings.ﾂ