Would you stop going to live in Japan mainly because the education system is not good for your kids?

[bentenmusume]

Have you ever thought that the reason the OP dismisses you is because your opinion does not reflect what he is experiencing in his situation and what he sees in his relationship is how I described it.

For one thing, you are being far more dismissive of me than the OP, for reasons I can't quite comprehend, unless you are stuck in a loveless marriage in Japan and resented my implication that not all relationships with a Japanese person need to be that way.

(You never clarified your original statement, leaving me no choice but to think you do actually believe love in Japanese marriages is some kind of oxymoron. You also never apologized for essentially implying that my wife, who you have never met and know nothing about except that she is Japanese, will cease to love me when/if we have kids.)

Why do you have a hard time believing that some one can actually learn and understand the way Japanese people think?

I understand you are offering up another perspective, but what is that perspective based on, because if its western logic how do you think that will appeal to the Japanese mind?

What in the world are you talking about? The OP (less so, now) and especially you came in here making these grandiose sweeping statements about what all Japanese people and all marriages in Japan are like. I did my best to offer a more nuanced perspective based on my own experiences in Japan and relationships with Japanese people (who I see as individual human beings and not robots possessing a single collective hive mind that you can generalize about and pigeonhole into a single category) and you accuse me of not understanding Japan and Japanese people and drawing conclusions based on "Western logic"? That's rich.

I'm sorry for getting a bit hostile, but I find the tone and implications of your posts rather insulting. I'm not the one assuming that my personal experiences apply to any and all relationships in Japan. You are.

Aside to johnnyG, beautiful picture and beautiful family! Thanks for offering one of the more positive contributions to this thread. I guess love can exist in Japan after all. Who'da thunk it?

 

[jt9258]

No one in their right mind would talk about "marriage in the US (or UK)" as if every single Western couple was the same, but people are all too quick to lump all of Japan/Japanese people into the same category as if they weren't individual human beings.

I would not either!! Because within those countries the culture is focused on individualism.

While Japan is a rule based group culture that has a rule for every aspect of Japanese life.

Does this mean that one can extrapolate that every single Japanese marriage/person/child/education/what-have-you will turn out exactly according to certain stereotypes? Of course f***ing not, because the world doesn't work that way.

The world may not work that way, but Japan does.

 

[bentenmusume]

The world may not work that way, but Japan does.

I'm sorry, but this is absolutely hilarious to me. I actually feel genuinely sorry for you if you've lived in Japan for an extended period of time and this is the conclusion you've reached.

Anyhow, I think it's very clear now which one of us is stuck in a "Western mindset" that leaves them unable to understand and appreciate Japan for what it really is.

I'll bow out of this thread now and let my posts speak for themselves. Hope you can find some kind of happiness in your life, whatever that means to you.

 

[jt9258]

(You never clarified your original statement, leaving me no choice but to think you do actually believe love in Japanese marriages is some kind of oxymoron. You also never apologized for essentially implying that my wife, who you have never met and know nothing about except that she is Japanese, will cease to love me when/if we have kids.)

I have a great marriage, its not based on love but respect and as we live our married life within Japanese values I have no complaints.

As for offering you an apology for making statements about your wife not loving you after child birth, I would gladly do that when you come back here and tell me I was wrong, six months after your first child.

 

[mickael28]

Hey guys, I know it was quite tricky to talk about these subjects here but I wanted to see different views of people who've lived in Japan or know the Japanese culture much more than I do.

We've all achieved that and there's too much information here for me to assimilate in just a matter of days. I'll need to print out and re-read all comments as you've guys have done great effort with your posts.

I think we all can park it here and keep on enjoying the rest of the community. It's good though that there are so many different views, so no one should really feel offended.

Keep it peaceful guys! Cheers and thanks!!

 

[Mike Cash]

OP, I've been in the exact situation you describe.

Lots of people in Japan think they want to live in a foreign country. Many actually go try it. Some adapt well. Some do not.

Lots of Japanese girls think they want to marry a foreign guy. Many actually do it. Some adapt well. Some do not.

Being in the "some do not" category regarding adapting to living outside Japan can in turn lead to entering the "some do not" category regarding being married to a foreign guy. Especially if the girl enters the "some do not" category regarding adapting after they have married a foreign guy. They feel stuck in a country they desperately no longer want to be in and their husband gets the blame (rightly or wrongly). With the blame comes resentment.... resentment of both the country and the husband and everything remotely connected to either of them. They quit trying to adapt, withdraw into whatever small cocoon of Japanese-ness they can find or create around them, and make life miserable for everybody.

Trying to hold a Japanese person outside Japan against their will is like trying to hold a big strong fish out of water.....you don't want what's left of it after it quits struggling.

---------------

Lose the disdain you have for your wife. Lose the disdain you have for her country. They are both very disrespectful and insulting. Lose the stereotypes you hold about Japan and Japanese people. You are using them merely to help yourself arrive at the conclusion you want to arrive at. (Throwing a dart at the wall and then drawing a circle around it).

It has been abundantly clear from the beginning that this is all about your happiness and your unwillingness to sacrifice. You don't mind forcing your wife to live in misery in England, because you are happy living there. You don't really care if moving to Japan would help her or not because you're certain you wouldn't be happy in Japan. You expect her to make sacrifices that you aren't willing to make. This is the problem with many marriages between Japanese women and foreign men.....the husband assumes the wife will and must live where he chooses and is unwilling to consider living permanently in Japan. Hell, we know your concerns about the nature of education in Japan are false and that you are just using them to leverage your wife into staying in England. How do we know this? Because you have admitted that it may be best if you end up divorced and your daughter halfway around the world...just so long as you are happy. You think that you being happy apart from them would mean they are happy too! (Which tells us the problem here isn't her....it's you). Where do you think your daughter is going to get her education then, genius?

Frankly, I find all this talk of "happiness" and that being your end goal thoroughly disgusting. There has been enough misery created in the world by adults who selfishly put their own "happiness" first in their lives. Try not to add to it.

 

[musicisgood]

Hey guys, I know it was quite tricky to talk about these subjects here but I wanted to see different views of people who've lived in Japan or know the Japanese culture much more than I do.

We've all achieved that and there's too much information here for me to assimilate in just a matter of days. I'll need to print out and re-read all comments as you've guys have done great effort with your posts.

I think we all can park it here and keep on enjoying the rest of the community. It's good though that there are so many different views, so no one should really feel offended.

Keep it peaceful guys! 🙂: Cheers and thanks!!

remember dude, the world is full of trickery

 

[jt9258]

I'm sorry for getting a bit hostile, but I find the tone and implications of your posts rather insulting. I'm not the one assuming that my personal experiences apply to any and all relationships in Japan. You are.

You may never read this as you have said privately that you will put me on ignore if I do not apologize and basically retract my statements, but personally I feel that anyone who lives in Japan with a closed mind to the real culture and mindset of the Japanese is not doing themselves any favors.

If a foreigner learns the language they also need to learn the culture and not just dismiss some thing, because it does not fit with how they want and imagine it to be.

I studied the culture because I wanted to better understand my wife and the culture that shaped her into the person she is, but during my studies I found that there is only a few foreigners who really want to understand the culture, the majority do not want to believe the Japanese are any different and there are those who are married who experience problems and are happy to dismiss the problems with western logic, instead of understanding the bigger picture.

 

[Shibui]

My obligations to my family are that they all are happy, with or without me. There are cases when it doesn't make sense to keep on doing something that's counter-productive as that would make no good to anyone.
.

Mike is correct. From what you have posted on here you are only concerned with yourself and the probably justifiable fear that if your daughter and wife go back to Japan they aint coming back.

You chose to marry someone from another culture. Deal with it.

Learn the language. Until you bother to do that your marriage is a lost cause.

 

[Seiko]

I've always ask myself that same question, if i was to married a Japanese woman.

This is not the first time i have read something like this in a relationship dating a Japanese women. Home sick is a relationship killer

 

[Habaek]

You have every reason to be concern of the Japanese education system, and beyond that.
In my opinion and this is just from reading about their education system. I don't think the youth can be happy with all the pressure they get from the system.

it beats the purpose of learning at all if you ask me. Learning should be something done at their own pace by their own choice.

 

[jt9258]

In my opinion and this is just from reading about their education system. I don't think the youth can be happy with all the pressure they get from the system.

it beats the purpose of learning at all if you ask me. Learning should be something done at their own pace by their own choice.

Reading about the education system is one way to understand it, but making comparisons is not a good idea.

I have two in the Japanese education system and our eldest is about to enter high school and neither of them would agree with you, in fact my eldest just said its normal.

 

[jt9258]

I've always ask myself that same question, if i was to married a Japanese woman.

This is not the first time i have read something like this in a relationship dating a Japanese women. Home sick is a relationship killer

But as you are not married to a Japanese woman how can you say anything?

 

[Oliver_King]

From from I've seen and heard, if I had children, I think I would rather them in a Japanese school.

 

[Transformer5]

I've got a couple of Aussie friends in Japan who went back/are planning to return to Aus with their Japanese wife and kids, and mentioned this as one of the reasons for them going back to Aus: that the Japanese education system turns you into a robot, you'll be strait-jacketed into your lifelong career when you're 15, and won't acquire a free-spirited nature.

I'm sure it's not just confined to Australians, but I haven't seen any other examples of people upping sticks and moving back home before their kids are due to enter elementary school, either wholly or in part because they thought the Japanese education system would deprive their kids of a "free spirit" which they will get from growing up back home. Does anybody know anyone like this, or has done it/considered doing it themselves?

I don't have kids but I've worked as a kids English teacher, ALT, and didn't notice much of this robotic, strait-jacketed, lack of free spirit. The most dull, sullen, "robotic", un-free-spirited kind of Japanese I see are the business workers on the trains and in companies in Tokyo, but it's a vast generalization to describe all of them as "robotic". I've got Japanese friends who live that kind of life, but aren't "robotic" (though they probably look it and act it at 8:00am on the Sobu or Keio Line, and like anyone working in a Japanese company, have to behave in a certain kind of formal way during the working day, which might appear stiff and robotic to outsiders).

Go to any beach in Japan in the summer and you'll see plenty of surfer dudes and traveller types up for "letting their hair down" and doing their thing. Even the business people do that kind of thing. Another thing that having a "free spirit" might be referring to is having creativity and an imagination, but I wouldn't say the Japanese are lacking in creativity compared to Western counterparts (just look at some of their advertisements....).

The posts further back on this thread, from people with kids who are growing up in Japan, seem to confirm the feeling that this idea of Japanese education and culture producing "robots" is a myth.

 

[DavidChiang]

Go to any beach in Japan in the summer and you'll see plenty of surfer dudes and traveller types up for "letting their hair down" and doing their thing. Even the business people do that kind of thing.

Interesting! And what should that prove?

The posts further back on this thread, from people with kids who are growing up in Japan, seem to confirm the feeling that this idea of Japanese education and culture producing "robots" is a myth.

That's definitely wrong! It is not really a myth but one of many stereotypes. Unfortunately, the reality is quite different, in fact, the education system as a whole has gotten a bad reputation because it hasn't undergone any reforms in the last 5 decades. This justifiably causes prejudice, which fortunately does not apply in all cases. In this respect, it's understandable that both Japanese and parents from Western countries are worried about it! Sooner or later, Japan will have to radically change its existing education system, or its international rank in the global economy will be lost forever.

 

[jt9258]

That's definitely wrong! It is not really a myth but one of many stereotypes. Unfortunately, the reality is quite different, in fact, the education system as a whole has gotten a bad reputation because it hasn't undergone any reforms in the last 5 decades. This justifiably causes prejudice, which fortunately does not apply in all cases. In this respect, it's understandable that both Japanese and parents from Western countries are worried about it! Sooner or later, Japan will have to radically change its existing education system, or its international rank in the global economy will be lost forever.

Can you support your comments with facts?

 

[DavidChiang]

Can you support your comments with facts?

Your question is completely superfluous, because the circumstances in Japan have long been so obvious that they have left therefore a very negative impression on the international scene too! To question this would only prove how bad you are informed.

 

[jt9258]

Your question is completely superfluous, because the circumstances in Japan have long been so obvious that they have left therefore a very negative impression on the international scene too! To question this would only prove how bad you are informed.

I think you are the one that is misinformed.

I have already discussed this subject in depth with the OP here and privately and feel you are just here to upset posters on this forum, because you never offer up any valid information to prove your argument, instead you continue to dispute and insult those of us who live here and who also have children in the education system.

And again I ask you to support your argument and comments with facts?

 

[DavidChiang]

I have already discussed this subject in depth with the OP here and privately and feel you are just here to upset posters on this forum, because you never offer up any valid information to prove your argument, instead you continue to dispute and insult those of us who live here and who also have children in the education system.

You give the impression here as if you had a problem with sensitive reading. My experiences go back to a lot of direct discussions with those affected, so I don't have to provide any facts, these are already obvious!

Wake up man, the reality is not as nice as some people would like to hear! Japan is certainly a great country, but unfortunately not as great as it is often portrayed. This should make my point of view sufficiently clear in this matter. Any further discussion would therefore only be a repetition of it.

 

[HanSolo]

Come on guys. This is an important topic. Make the argument a team effort rather than a d-swinging contest eh?

I think the margin is not as big as made out. Modern schooling is already pretty robotic, and from my experience in Japan the primary difference was only that there was less rebelliousness against it. In both cases schools are still teaching useless stuff that the kids don't care about, for the sake of grades, and basically being a university lead gen funnel. In both cases schools do dumb communal time wasting crap like assemblies and sports days and speech nights that more than half of the students want no part in but have to because the school says so.

I'd say the roboticness is primarily after school, in terms of the salaryman/OL married-to-the-office culture. The margin between roboticness in an Australian student versus a Japanese student is probably only 30%. The margin in robotic deference to the collective in an employee on the other hand is probably 300%.

I think as long as you made sure the kid spent some time overseas, e.g. exchange, it wouldn't be that bad.

 

[jt9258]

You give the impression here as if you had a problem with sensitive reading. My experiences go back to a lot of direct discussions with those affected, so I don't have to provide any facts, these are already obvious!

Wake up man, the reality is not as nice as some people would like to hear! Japan is certainly a great country, but unfortunately not as great as it is often portrayed. This should make my point of view sufficiently clear in this matter. Any further discussion would therefore only be a repetition of it.

Without facts to back up your comments, your posts are pointless and not valid.

As I have explained I do not need to wake up as you put it, or doing anything else you have mentioned, because I have direct experience of the education system in Japan as I live here and have children in the Japanese education system.

 

[johnnyG]

Here's one perspective on western education, tho it is a little dated:

 

[jt9258]

Here's one perspective on western education, tho it is a little dated: 🙂:

What is your point?

But the OP's concerns are that the Japanese education system would not be right for his daughter.

Making comparisons serves no purpose because each country decides what is right for them.

 

[Zizka]

Making comparisons serves no purpose because each country decides what is right for them.

Just like each person has an opinion that's right with them, right? So I guess there's no point in anyone trying to convince anyone else any further then.