Would you stop going to live in Japan mainly because the education system is not good for your kids?

[tomoni]

OP

The Japanese education system has both good and bad-as I assume the UK system does.

To my mind, the most important thing in getting the best out of any education system is support in the home.

If they have a good home environment, in my opinion it will be fine.

Furthermore some things that you won’t need to worry about at least to the degree would worry about them in the UK is drugs and crime. I also think the kids don’t get forced to grow up as quickly as they do in the west. You have a little bit more time to be kids, and are forced to be a mini adults as fast.

Some might argue that Japanese kids or two depending on the parents and don’t grow fast enough, but I think it’s nice the kids can be kids for a little bit longer than they might be in the west.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[mickael28]

Hi guys,
First of all, sorry about catching up a little bit late. A couple of meetings with clients, accountants and the weather in London created a big chaos due to the bad weather, hence not much physical time left. Anyway, as for the comments (sorry about the mega post in advance):

How can you dismiss Japan as not being an option if you have no experience?



You need to consider the bigger picture and not assume that Japan does not have anything to offer.
You also need to listen to your wife, because most Japanese will return to Japan at some point.



If you decide to move to Japan do it for the whole family not just your wife.

I have sent a private message.

There are a few main points why I think staying in the UK is better for all of us as a family:

• Education wise: which was my main concerned when starting the thread. To help my daughter have a brighter and INDEPENDENT future, without depending on a future husband to take care of her (whilst she stays at home the Japanese style) and without depending on a company to be able to have an income
• Language wise: my daughter would benefit more in her life being a native English speaker
• Social wise: my daughter would find a lot easier to interact with other people by growing up in a Western way. She'll be more open to different ways to see the world and try things (and not just follow the established Japanese way. Which in many many cases is simply wrong - no matter how you look at it - and no ones seems to bother or do anything about it; eg, how Japanese ex-wives kidnap kids when they go back to Japan and Western husband cannot do anything legal to be able to see their own kids. All without anyone in the government doing anything about it). So I want my daughter if she sees something is not right, raise your voice and fight for it.
• Economy wise: we'd be at least 80% worse off if we go back to Japan economically, and that's if my wife manages to get a good job. I doesn't make much sense from this point of view, to leave an IT business in London that it has taken 10 years to build, just to go somewhere else to basically do nothing. And less Japan, where it doesn't matter how hard working or bright one is, they have their own rules where the older gets the best pay, end of the story. (On top of the problem of the language)

Generalising here - they tend to be far more respectful and compliant of the rules compared to western kids and they tend to be less inclined to comment negatively about the system. However, they are just as funny, intelligent, clever and social as any western kid, just not bubbling away at the surface. School is a big part of their life but no bigger than their parents interaction and direction is.
With regard to your situation there are a couple of alarm bells. One is you are married to a Japanese person, and have a child with her, and you speak no Japanese. Being blunt that's pretty selfish. At some stage in life your wife, not to mention your child, will want to connect with their heritage and you have effectively precluded yourself from involvement. It also makes it way more difficult to find work and assimilate if as a couple you decide to relocate to Japan, even for a short period.
My suggestion is engage in your wife and childs culture, learn the language, at least to the basic conversational level, and see if things improve. Your wife may be much happier and content if you can engage in her language together.

Good luck in the future.

My view on a few points here:

• Kids not commenting negatively about things in the system, sounds to me like they won't have their own say in anything in life in the future. Which I don't think is correct to start with, just being a follower doesn't seem ideal to me.
• I agree with the importance of parents interaction and direction, hence that I prefer to stay in the UK and help my daughter in a lot of things when we both can speak English. If we go back to Japan and she's surrounded by Japanese language and culture, how can I properly exercise my right as a father to show her ways to see and do things? I won't be able to do so.
• My not speaking Japanese whilst I am not a native English speaker is as selfish as my wife not speaking Spanish or even with her not doing anything for keep on learning and improving her English. Not taking into account that she has been a house wife for 8 years here (even when we didn't have the kid) with plenty of time to spare but that time is not redirected to anything productive. Whereas I mentioned in another post above that I am swamped with tasks and sleeping 4-5 hours/day, so if you tell me where I can get the physical time from to learn Japanese, I'd love to do so 🙂:
• They wanting to connect to their heritage is as important as my wanting to connect with mine. And another point to note is that I am 100% willing for my daughter to learn as much Japanese as possible (language and cultural wise) so I try that my daughter gets involved in Japanese, English and Spanish whereas my wife is thinking in some weird way where she's thinking that our daughter just needs to learn Japanese stuff whilst we are living in the UK. I've never seen her putting her cartoons in Spanish without me asking for 10th time and quite likely neither in English. Which I think it's not fair for our daughter and even for our Spanish family or my daughter's English friends (she cannot make many English friends because she cannot speak much English and my wife doesn't help HER to improve on that)

You mentioned your wife has been in the UK for 8 years. Just curious, when was the last time she went back to Japan for a visit? I've lived in Japan for nearly 20 years now (time flies), and I know that if I don't get back home every few years or so, I start to get a bit nuts. Would a good, long visit help her re-charge and re-focus maybe?
This is not to belittle your situation, or try to offer a quick trip home as a solution. It looks like the honeymoon is over and you and your wife have some real grown-up stuff to work out. I think jt's comments are spot on. Do everything you can to keep this from becoming a battle.

• Even with the expensive trips to Japan during the summer holidays, she's gone once a year, every single year, and stayed there a minimum of 30 days. Aka they've spent the complete summer there. I've gone a few times with them but I cannot go always and of course, I cannot stay 30days out of work. We've never gone to Spain with our daughter during summer, but my wife doesn't even consider that a possibility as she just wants to go back to Japan and doesn't quite care that there are 2 families in this relationship. I've suggested to go there in Xmas and to Spain some times in summer, but it's a no from her. So for avoiding the fight, they've kept on going every year.

....says the guy that says he doesn't speak any Japanese. Sheesh. Don't know that I'd be throwing around the 'lazy' label that easily.



Sounds like you didn’t want a wife, you wanted at live-in maid.



So you’re spending all your time with everything and everyone *but* your wife…and you wonder why she’s a bit withdrawn?

Everything I’ve read from you paints a picture of a husband spending little time with his family, and a housewife in a foreign country where she doesn’t know anybody and is stuck at home. Does she have friends? Do you have family friends that are all your friends?

Are you aware of the stress she likely feels having to deal with the UK school in her second language? Japanese schools also expect a considerable amount of parent involvement, but for my (and your) wife, it’s harder in the UK because a) it's an entirely unfamiliar education system, and of course b) it’s in another language.

The whole ‘education in Japan vs the UK’ question is irrelevant, the issue is the relationship between you and your wife. I’d focus on fixing that first; you – and I mean YOU, not your wife - have some serious issues to address. The way you describe your wife does not portray you as a loving husband, to say the least.

I think I've talked about some of those points in previous posts, so maybe you've not read them but I don't want to repeat myself much. Summarizing a little:

• No speaking Japanese as above. Lazy label as above. Being at home watching youtube videos rather than doing anything productive, you tell me what that is.
• Live-in maid as above. I started saying that she's not contributed to anything (outside or inside the house), starting with getting a job, any kind of job (and not so much for the money but for going outside and getting to know other people), or doing any exercise, or enjoying life with some friends. I wanted a wife who enjoyed life and was happy, not much to ask.
• I don't spend as much time as my wife as I'd like as above, because she doesn't help with anything we need to do in the family. If I come back home and she's researched, phoned and resolved things we have to do as a family, we could spend more time together. If she doesn't help with anything and those things need to be done anyway, who's going to fix them?
• I don't know if you started reading half way the story or the misunderstanding rises from somewhere else. If you don't have a lazy wife, I really congratulate you 'cos talking to other people married to Japanese women that's not usually the case.
• She has some friends here, all mainly Japanese. But not the kind of people I'll call friends with a Spanish mentality, I'd say she knows people, but they don't meet often, they don't call each other, they don't plan things together, etc. I keep on telling her to try and do things she enjoys with other people here (so that I'd take care of our daughter and she could do whatever) but it doesn't seem to work that way. When I mention anything, she just says that that's how things work in Japan and she's Japanese, so she doesn't need to change anything.
• Not sure what you mean about the stress with the UK schools system, as mentioned many times now, she doesn't help with anything to do with the family. So that stress with the UK school system comes to me, who is the one researching, applying for things, talking to teachers, etc. All this after work, commuting, studying, even cleaning the house 'cos she's busy with internet.
• I don't know what issues you've seen in me. I'd love to see you in this situation and see how you'd react. I doubt you'd have so much patience and try to fix the relationship as much as I'm doing. Certainly none of my close friends understand why I'm still trying to stay with someone so passive in live and making things so difficult. If you want to swap wives for a while next time you come to London, let's go for it 🙂:

If you do move to Japan, you really might consider being self employed or work for your wife.

• Not quite sure about how that'd work without me speaking Japanese, but yes, that'd be ideal which is what I've been doing in London since I came. But much easier to get clients when the work environment is just English

Are you actually married to a Japanese woman?

I have not actually given the OP any information, but I have asked a few questions, but he has not replied. Basically I do not want to get involved in a debate about the culture.

• Sorry, thanks for the email. I'm still catching up with things. The content was good, as you said not criticizing anything, just trying to help. Thumbs up!

To my mind, the most important thing in getting the best out of any education system is support in the home.

If they have a good home environment, in my opinion it will be fine.

Furthermore some things that you won’t need to worry about at least to the degree would worry about them in the UK is drugs and crime. I also think the kids don’t get forced to grow up as quickly as they do in the west. You have a little bit more time to be kids, and are forced to be a mini adults as fast.

Some might argue that Japanese kids or two depending on the parents and don’t grow fast enough, but I think it’s nice the kids can be kids for a little bit longer than they might be in the west.

Just my 2 cents.

• That was one of my concerns, that in Japan I wouldn't be able to help my daughter much. Due to the language and to the different culture, as I'm pretty sure I'd have different ways to see the world (not the Japanese way) and I'd like my daughter to know about all of them, not just follow what she's told.
• Totally agree about drugs and crime. That's the really bad point here, scary at best!
• Agree about being good for kids to be kids, but with a fine balance about when to grow up. Saying this because my wife is still acting as kid and not an adult and she's in her mids 30s. So better a balance but if one has to really choose, growing up early is better than staying kid forever (as that won't help themselves when they grow up)

 

[DragonAsh]

Education wise: which was my main concerned when starting the thread. To help my daughter have a brighter and INDEPENDENT future, without depending on a future husband to take care of her (whilst she stays at home the Japanese style) and without depending on a company to be able to have an income

This depends on how she is raised, not the education system.

Language wise: my daughter would benefit more in her life being a native English speaker

This depends on how she is raised, not the education system.

Actually, she's already essentially a native English speaker - she was born and raised in the UK, right?
My daughter is 6. We came back to Japan when she was 5. Her and her brother speak English to each other, I speak English to them, they watch English youtube videos (my son wants to be a Youtuber, LOL).
And the added benefit is now they are both starting to learn to read/speak/write Japanese as well.

My assumption would be that someone with two native languages will benefit more than someone with just one. Wouldn't you agree?

Social wise: my daughter would find a lot easier to interact with other people by growing up in a Western way. She'll be more open to different ways to see the world and try things (and not just follow the established Japanese way.

This depends on how she is raised, not the education system.

Economy wise: we'd be at least 80% worse off if we go back to Japan economically, and that's if my wife manages to get a good job. I doesn't make much sense from this point of view, to leave an IT business in London that it has taken 10 years to build, just to go somewhere else to basically do nothing.

Oh, well you're right, Japan has no IT jobs, so you'd be out of luck....
Seriously - I've worked for a lot of big companies in Japan, and they all have IT departments with non-native Japanese speakers, and most of them speak little or no Japanese. If you're good at what you do and are diligent, there's zero reason to assume you would be lazy and thus 'doing nothing' in Japan.

And less Japan, where it doesn't matter how hard working or bright one is, they have their own rules where the older gets the best pay, end of the story. (On top of the problem of the language)

You know this because of...what, your extensive experience living and working in Japan?

I agree with the importance of parents interaction and direction, hence that I prefer to stay in the UK and help my daughter in a lot of things when we both can speak English. If we go back to Japan and she's surrounded by Japanese language and culture, how can I properly exercise my right as a father to show her ways to see and do things? I won't be able to do so.

Why do you think you will no longer be a dad to your daughter in Japan?

I really congratulate you 'cos talking to other people married to Japanese women that's not usually the case.

And you base this on...what? I'm sure there are housewives of any country that could be considered 'lazy', and there are stereotypes about Japanese housewives, but not sure that 'lazy' is one of them.

Do you know how much work is involved in keeping a house running? Do you think everything just gets done auto-magically? One thing I tend to *like* about Japan is that being a housewife / home-maker is respected as a profession.

I still see someone that has these built-in prejudices about Japan, these built-in assumptions about Japan gleaned apparently from...er, bulletin boards and other such reliable sources, without ever having lived there yourself. I see someone that clearly does not respect the work his wife does around the home and doesn't seem to be communicating with her very well - does *she* know what you think and assume about her country?

 

[mickael28]

This depends on how she is raised, not the education system.

The education system is part of how one is raised, a big part of it in fact, as she'd be in school a lot more hours that she'd be with working parents on a daily basis.

And the country where one lives in is part of how one is raised. So if my wife is the way she is it's due to the country, family and education system. All combined creates the end result.

The more native languages the better of course, but I speak to my daughter in Spanish and a lot of times in English as well mainly to not leave my wife out of the conversation and have the possibility of talk the 3 of us together. My wife doesn't speak to my daughter in English (even when I ask her to do so, so that I can understand the conversation). So again, the way your wife behaves seems good and normal to me, but my wife would see it as... "she's not a real Japanese like me, she's been living abroad for too long, and I don't need to speak English to my daughter". I wouldn't matter how many arguments you could show her to prove her that 2 native languages are better than one, she would have her own idea in mind and that's it. No possibility to discuss anything further.

I've not lived in Japan to know about jobs and IT in general, but there are plenty of documentaries and articles from reliable sources, many more from personal experiences in blogs, forums, youtube, etc... and I've asked questions to my wife and Japanese family, who interestingly do agree with me, and I'm pretty sure they have lived in Japan and understand the Japanese way much more than you do.

The difficult of being a dad in a foreign language is crystal clear to me. Just change the countries and you'll see it easily. Say that you've got a Russian wife and you move to Russia without speaking that language whilst your wife and daugher are both already speaking Russian. The daughter joins Russian schools, makes Russian friends and basically speaks Russian. How are you going to talk to her about everything in life? Because she's not going to understand your English and you're not going to understand her Russian.
If you really think, even for a second, that you are going to be as good of a dad as a Russian father, I think you've never experienced the situation and one doesn't even fully enjoy their kids because they cannot communicate properly.

As for the house, that's another of your assumptions, that things get done here? I am one of the people who really respect housewives doing their chores, but that's it, if they're doing anything. Having a 'housewife' who's leaving all dirty dishes in the sink when we've got dishwasher for days, leaving hairs in toilet sink and shower, having dust in living room that one can catch with the hands, having dirty hair/dirtiness in the room carpets that one can catch with the hands again, not having food in the fridge (or outside dor that matter) and much much more, is not the best of the experiences. Because what's happening then is that I arrive late or on weekends and those things that do not get done auto-magically need to be done by myself.

Of course she knows everything, one good or bad thing we've got, is that we talk about everything. Which can cause more problems than it solves TBH.

 

[DragonAsh]

I've not lived in Japan to know about jobs and IT in general, but there are plenty of documentaries and articles from reliable sources, many more from personal experiences in blogs, forums, youtube, etc... and I've asked questions to my wife and Japanese family, who interestingly do agree with me, and I'm pretty sure they have lived in Japan and understand the Japanese way much more than you do.

And I'm telling you based on *my* personal experience of living and working in Japan and at Japanese companies for over 30 years that you're wrong to think that 'this is the only way it is ever done in Japan, end of story'.

How are you going to talk to her about everything in life? Because she's not going to understand your English and you're not going to understand her Russian.Only about 15% of a children's time is spent at school.

I don't understand what this completely irrelevant example is supposed to show. You said that you and your child (and your wife, apparently) already speak English. Why would you think that your daughter would suddenly just completely not be able to speak English and never speak to you again if you moved back to Japan?

Kids only spent about 15% of their time in school.

Parenting is far, far more important than schooling. That's not just my opinion, it's backed by research.

That's true even in the UK, btw. Don't assume your daughter will grow up a certain way if you simply check her into the UK education system and stop being an actual parent.

The issues you have are due to the relationship between you and your wife, and have nothing to do with the education system in any country. The lack of respect you have for your wife is palatable in your posts; maybe she's just not a good housewife, maybe she feels that she's not appreciated or respected; either way, you have far bigger issues to address, and they have little to do with where you live or where your kid goes to school.

The issue is that you seem to think that your wife is 'the way she is' because of where she went to school. I'm telling you that my wife - and the wives of my and my family friends - went through the same system, and while there are many things men with Japanese housewives might complain about, the wife being 'lazy' is sure not one of 'em (quite the opposite, at least in my experience).

Fix your relationship with your wife - for your daughter's sake.

 

[tomoni]

OP

Thank you for your thoughtful and open replies. As far as kids growing up slower I think that your wife’s case is not typical.

I honestly think from the things you described, that your wife is not lazy but she’s may be suffering from mental depression. Lethargy, a lack of involvement in life, and so on.

As you know, it can be very tough to live outside of your own country and you’re engaged through your life in work, in your kids, friends and so on. but not everyone handles it as well, so I really think you might be looking at a case of mental depression rather than laziness. Presumably when you first met your wife she wasn’t lazy, or probably was more engaged at the beginning in life.

I’m not a mental health expert though unfortunately I’ve seen cases here in Japan.


And I really think you are making great efforts to try to make your five family happy. I don’t know what the right answer is for you. I hope you find it.


I hope this helps because I understand it’s a really difficult decision.

 

[bentenmusume]

To the OP:

I'm sorry, but for someone who speaks no Japanese and has never lived in Japan, you continue to make far too many assumptions about Japanese people and Japanese culture. Despite repeatedly professing how your Western upbringing has made you so open-minded, hard-working, and intellectually curious, you seem to have no problem making these authoritative sweeping statements pigeonholing and dismissing an entire country based on almost nothing but your own personal experience with the people around you (primarily your wife) and things you've seen/read in English (or Spanish?), which makes you extremely susceptible to what is called confirmation bias.

Despite extensive responses from people who have successfully made lives for themselves in Japan, all of your responses keep doubling down on this idea that you fundamentally understand what sort of culture and society Japan is, that it is irreconcilable with your mindset on life, and that it is somehow inferior (even if you're not outright saying this, you're implying it) to your own cultural upbringing. If you truly believe this, no one is going to be able to change your mind (and in this case, I have no doubt that you would actually be miserable in Japan).

Also, believe it or not, many Westerners have been able to master Japanese to a level that, if not technically native, is close enough (say, at or above the level of your English) that they are able to have deep and nuanced conversations in the language. You don't seem to be particularly interested in this (again, not to be rude, but probably because you don't seem to have much respect for or interest in Japanese culture), but this idea that you could never be a proper father to your daughter in Japan is patently ridiculous. Besides the fact that if you speak in English to her at home, she will almost certainly grow up bilingual, there is (again) nothing stopping you from learning Japanese, which in addition to allowing you to interact with your family on another, deeper level, would also open up worlds of opportunities for you in terms of employment. I don't have kids yet, but plenty of my colleagues do, and have succeeded in building happy, loving, communicative families. You are essentially denying these people's existences simply because the entire concept does not coincide with your own experience or beliefs, which I'm sorry to say is not a particularly enlightened or intellectually honest thing to do.

Again, I'm not trying to be rude, but the message doesn't seem to be getting across. You keep talking about how precious your time is and how you can't waste it studying Japanese, while still having time to complain about how useless your wife is to strangers on the internet. I'm not judging, but one of those activities seems like it would be more productive than the other. At the very least, you could start by throwing away some of your assumptions about Japan and Japanese people and making an effort to learn and observe rather than judging everyone.

Despite the harsh words (again, I apologize for those), I do wish you the best and hope that you're able to salvage your relationship with your wife and find happiness with your family.

---

An aside to the other jt (everyone else can ignore this):

Are you actually married to a Japanese woman?

Yes.

Criticizing posts is not going to help the OP

I've made three extensive posts addressing the OP in this thread.

we all have different opinions based on our own experience.

This is why I believe it's best to not express opinions such as "love in Japanese marriages is nonexistent" as if they were indisputable truths.

 

[jt9258]

This is why I believe it's best to not express opinions such as "love in Japanese marriages is nonexistent" as if they were indisputable truths.

I think you need to re-read what I wrote in my post, I raised the question:-

Is there really love in marriage here in Japan?

 

[bentenmusume]

I think you need to re-read what I wrote in my post, I raised the question:-

Is there really love in marriage here in Japan?

Does the question itself, phrased as such and in the context you used it, not clearly imply that the answer is "no"?

At the very least, it suggests that it's possible to generalize about "marriage in Japan" versus marriage elsewhere, when in actuality (at the risk of stating the obvious) both loving and loveless marriages can exist anywhere, depending entirely on the individuals involved.

If that wasn't your intention, you may want to clarify, because the most straightforward interpretation of your original post isn't a particularly flattering one.

 

[mickael28]

And I'm telling you based on *my* personal experience of living and working in Japan and at Japanese companies for over 30 years that you're wrong to think that 'this is the only way it is ever done in Japan, end of story'.

I don't understand what this completely irrelevant example is supposed to show. You said that you and your child (and your wife, apparently) already speak English. Why would you think that your daughter would suddenly just completely not be able to speak English and never speak to you again if you moved back to Japan?

Kids only spent about 15% of their time in school.

Parenting is far, far more important than schooling. That's not just my opinion, it's backed by research.

That's true even in the UK, btw. Don't assume your daughter will grow up a certain way if you simply check her into the UK education system and stop being an actual parent.

The issues you have are due to the relationship between you and your wife, and have nothing to do with the education system in any country. The lack of respect you have for your wife is palatable in your posts; maybe she's just not a good housewife, maybe she feels that she's not appreciated or respected; either way, you have far bigger issues to address, and they have little to do with where you live or where your kid goes to school.

The issue is that you seem to think that your wife is 'the way she is' because of where she went to school. I'm telling you that my wife - and the wives of my and my family friends - went through the same system, and while there are many things men with Japanese housewives might complain about, the wife being 'lazy' is sure not one of 'em (quite the opposite, at least in my experience).

Fix your relationship with your wife - for your daughter's sake.

• "The Japanese way" is what I am seeing from my wife, in-laws and other foreigners living in Japan. Good to see that you are able to do things different to how native Japanese people will do them and everything is fine.
• I don't know how you calculate your percentages. but if a day as 24h (my daughter sleeps 11-12h at present, 6h in school, 1h in school clubs). We've got 7h out of 12 waking hours she's in school (aka 60% of her time!). Add that her father is working and just manages to see her 1h/day = 8% of her time. Where do you get that they're just 15% of time in school?
• My daughter does NOT speak English, she has been all the time with her Japanese mum who has not made any effort to teach her any English, hence that my daughter is a proper Japanese kid living in the UK. They've joined Japanese communities, clubs, etc so my daughter is starting to learn English now in school properly. I can communicate with her for some basic things and have fun together whilst playing, but not to talk anything important just yet. Whilst my wife can in Japanese.
• The lazyness is one thing, another thing is the way she thinks, reacts to experiences in life, wants to improve her knowledge, etc. And this way of thinking is what I've seen when we've met the Japanese marriages we've met in London, quite a few. I guess the line between education and culture gets blurry at some point but the difference in ways of doing things and think is a fact as well. So it has to come from somewhere.

OP

Thank you for your thoughtful and open replies. As far as kids growing up slower I think that your wife’s case is not typical.

I honestly think from the things you described, that your wife is not lazy but she’s may be suffering from mental depression. Lethargy, a lack of involvement in life, and so on.

As you know, it can be very tough to live outside of your own country and you’re engaged through your life in work, in your kids, friends and so on. but not everyone handles it as well, so I really think you might be looking at a case of mental depression rather than laziness. Presumably when you first met your wife she wasn’t lazy, or probably was more engaged at the beginning in life.

I’m not a mental health expert though unfortunately I’ve seen cases here in Japan.


And I really think you are making great efforts to try to make your five family happy. I don’t know what the right answer is for you. I hope you find it.


I hope this helps because I understand it’s a really difficult decision.

• I think it might be mental depression as well. I've suggested her to go (alone or as a couple) to have a chat with mental therapists in the UK, or talk to the NHS about how she feels, etc... but she just says that she's fine and doesn't want to fix her issue. Whatever she's got, she's not fine and as a result we are not fine as a family.
• The idea about going to Japan was to see if she could become happier there, but I don't know if that's going to fix the problem. And if that's not going to be bad for my daughter when she's got the chance to stay here instead.

To the OP:

I'm sorry, but for someone who speaks no Japanese and has never lived in Japan, you continue to make far too many assumptions about Japanese people and Japanese culture. Despite repeatedly professing how your Western upbringing has made you so open-minded, hard-working, and intellectually curious, you seem to have no problem making these authoritative sweeping statements pigeonholing and dismissing an entire country based on almost nothing but your own personal experience with the people around you (primarily your wife) and things you've seen/read in English (or Spanish?), which makes you extremely susceptible to what is called confirmation bias.

Despite extensive responses from people who have successfully made lives for themselves in Japan, all of your responses keep doubling down on this idea that you fundamentally understand what sort of culture and society Japan is, that it is irreconcilable with your mindset on life, and that it is somehow inferior (even if you're not outright saying this, you're implying it) to your own cultural upbringing. If you truly believe this, no one is going to be able to change your mind (and in this case, I have no doubt that you would actually be miserable in Japan).

Also, believe it or not, many Westerners have been able to master Japanese to a level that, if not technically native, is close enough (say, at or above the level of your English) that they are able to have deep and nuanced conversations in the language. You don't seem to be particularly interested in this (again, not to be rude, but probably because you don't seem to have much respect for or interest in Japanese culture), but this idea that you could never be a proper father to your daughter in Japan is patently ridiculous. Besides the fact that if you speak in English to her at home, she will almost certainly grow up bilingual, there is (again) nothing stopping you from learning Japanese, which in addition to allowing you to interact with your family on another, deeper level, would also open up worlds of opportunities for you in terms of employment. I don't have kids yet, but plenty of my colleagues do, and have succeeded in building happy, loving, communicative families. You are essentially denying these people's existences simply because the entire concept does not coincide with your own experience or beliefs, which I'm sorry to say is not a particularly enlightened or intellectually honest thing to do.

Again, I'm not trying to be rude, but the message doesn't seem to be getting across. You keep talking about how precious your time is and how you can't waste it studying Japanese, while still having time to complain about how useless your wife is to strangers on the internet. I'm not judging, but one of those activities seems like it would be more productive than the other. At the very least, you could start by throwing away some of your assumptions about Japan and Japanese people and making an effort to learn and observe rather than judging everyone.

Despite the harsh words (again, I apologize for those), I do wish you the best and hope that you're able to salvage your relationship with your wife and find happiness with your family.

• Thanks for the message. Yes, I don't understand the whole Japanese culture (or much part of it) because I've not lived there or studied about it. I've done quite a lot of research though and the way I see things is what you mentioned, but I've seen around us (wife, her family, her friends, her city).
• From the comments of all of you at least, it seems things might not be as bad as I thought in general. Good to know.
• As for your colleauges with kids. Out of curiosity, is the wife Japanese and they Western? And do they speak to their daughter in Japanese or in a foreign language? Because if the daughter just see their father a few hours a day due to their work, even if the father speaks in her native foreign language, the daughter is not going to learn or understand much. I'm saying this again from personal experience and from other people in the same situation, kids get the language of the person they spent most time with (most likely the mother).
• I have never said or implied that studying Japanese would be a waste of time, I've just said that I haven't got physical time to dedicate to it at presnet (partly because I have to do housewife tasks - such as cleaning, tidying up, etc, and partly because I have to do other family tasks as well after work which my wife doesn't help with - insurances, schools, holidays, weekend activities, etc)
• I'm not judging people without observing and researching. It's just after the fact that one makes conclusions about what they see though.

At the very least, it suggests that it's possible to generalize about "marriage in Japan" versus marriage elsewhere, when in actuality (at the risk of stating the obvious) both loving and loveless marriages can exist anywhere, depending entirely on the individuals involved..

• Similar to the last point above. Going by personal experience, what I've observed myself, and I've read about others. One can actually generalize about differences in the marriages when one or two Japanese people are involved. I don't know if 'love' means something else for Japanese people but they're quite cold in general in relationships. I don't want to go outside the main topic of education though, so maybe if we don't expand on these differences as that can create more confussion even.

 

[jt9258]

At the very least, it suggests that it's possible to generalize about "marriage in Japan" versus marriage elsewhere, when in actuality (at the risk of stating the obvious) both loving and loveless marriages can exist anywhere, depending entirely on the individuals involved.

This is not going to assist the OP, regardless of what you may or may not think, we are not here to make comparisons with other countries about different aspects of the culture, we are here to assist the OP understand how things are here in Japan.

I would agree!! That everyone's cultural experience will depend depend on their level of exposure to the culture and where they live in Japan and how much time they have invested in fully understanding the culture and if they live their life within that culture.

What matters for the OP is what would work best, staying in the UK or making a move to Japan with his wife, because personally I feel her problems relate to two issues, firstly she is outside the group and cannot tolerate the loose individualist culture and has said she wants to return to Japan and secondly she has to put up with her husband harassing her on a daily bases spouting what he feels is best for her and his daughter from a western perspective.

I personally feel he is scared to make a move to Japan because of the security he has with his work and the personal changes that he would need to make with a move to Japan, he fails to consider the bigger picture and what he could achieve with a move to Japan.

I personally feel if he continues on the road he is taking, he may find when he gets home from work one day that his wife has taken his child back to Japan while he was working, at that point there will be little to nothing he could do, because for his wife the marriage would be over.

With regards to the OP stating that he only spends an hour a day with his daughter, he should think himself lucky, most Japanese men never see their children during the week, at most they will spend the day with them on Sunday.

The OP also needs to consider that no Japanese husband would put up with a wife who does nothing around the house etc, it may be her way of hoping the OP will divorce her if she is a bad wife, so she can return to Japan.

 

[jt9258]

As for schooling, my children leave for school at 7am and return at 7pm.

With Juku (cram school) they would not be home before 9:30pm.

 

[mickael28]

I don't have kids yet, but plenty of my colleagues do, and have succeeded in building happy, loving, communicative families. You are essentially denying these people's existences simply because the entire concept does not coincide with your own experience or beliefs, which I'm sorry to say is not a particularly enlightened or intellectually honest thing to do.

I forgot to say about this, that we both (wife and myself) were fine until we had our daughter, after, she changed and became like a different person. Like day and night to be fair. My western female friends who have had kids, are basically the same woman with a kid, my wife became like a mother to my daughter and she forgot that she's still a woman, we are in a relationship and that she should still enjoy her life (alone, as a couple and as a family) regardless of being a mother.

This has happened to other people I know who have married Japanese women and not until this extent to people marrying Western women. This is not related to the main topic, but I just thought worth mentioning as I would have never believed this drastic change is even possible should I have not experienced it like I have.

The OP also needs to consider that no Japanese husband would put up with a wife who does nothing around the house etc, it may be her way of hoping the OP will divorce her if she is a bad wife, so she can return to Japan.

This is good to know as well, as I don't have that perspective and my wife just says it is normal in Japan. And just compares herself with some of her friends in Japan or some of the ones I know here (which according to her just watch youtube videos as a daily past time. My wife at least uses twitter and plays some tablet games to keep it varied.)

Kids only spent about 15% of their time in school.

As for schooling, my children leave for school at 7am and return at 7pm.

With Juku (cram school) they would not be home before 9:30pm.

Thanks for the specifics. I was thinking today and we've been talking a lot about generic theory, stereotypes, different ways to view things, how my wife and I get along, etc. And too little about when kids leave the house, reach home, in which language they talk to their non-Japanese parents and how good such a language is (expressions, undersanding of different ways to see the world, etc).

Let's see if my wife and I talk again this weekend about our short term future. I see it more staying in the UK at present, but we will see.

Thanks all for reading and contributing to the post.

 

[jt9258]

I don't have kids yet, but plenty of my colleagues do, and have succeeded in building happy, loving, communicative families.

Wait until you have children it all changes.

 

[DragonAsh]

"The Japanese way" is what I am seeing from my wife, in-laws and other foreigners living in Japan. Good to see that you are able to do things different to how native Japanese people will do them and everything is fine.

How do you know what the 'Japanese way' is if you've never lived in Japan? What you have seen is *your wife's* way. You say you're so constantly busy, so I don't know how you could have all this time to spend hours in deep discussion with other Japanese friends about their marriages and such - so how can you claim to have such detailed insight in to the 'Japanese way'?

I don't know how you calculate your percentages. but if a day as 24h (my daughter sleeps 11-12h at present, 6h in school, 1h in school clubs). We've got 7h out of 12 waking hours she's in school (aka 60% of her time!). Add that her father is working and just manages to see her 1h/day = 8% of her time. Where do you get that they're just 15% of time in school?

Do your kids go to school on the weekends? On holidays? Vacations?

In the UK, IIRC the number of days of school per year is 190, or a bit over 50% of the the year. Let's assume 7 hours per day at school for 190 days.

There are 365 days out of the year, 24 hours a day = 8760 hours in a year.
190 days x 7 = 1330 hours.
1330 / 8760 = 15.2%.

So - I stand by my calculation - kids spend only 15% of their time in school. Even if your child slept 11-12 hours a day every day, it'd be only 30% of waking hours. That leaves *70% of waking hours* for you, as the parent, to do something with. I'll repeat: parenting is far, far more important than the education system.

My daughter does NOT speak English, she has been all the time with her Japanese mum who has not made any effort to teach her any English

Ignoring yet again another rather nasty comment about your wife...
Of course your daughter doesn't speak English -now-, she's growing up with a Japanese mother. She will start going to school, and will learn English (assuming you stay in the UK) whether you like it or not. My children didn't learn English until they started going to school. There was little need to learn English; at the parks and such we went to there were children from all over the world, and they still played together just fine. Once they got in to school, of course, they all learned English really fast, and even now after almost a year back in Japan, they still speak English to each other.

The lazyness is one thing, another thing is the way she thinks, reacts to experiences in life, wants to improve her knowledge, etc. And this way of thinking is what I've seen when we've met the Japanese marriages we've met in London, quite a few.

I still wonder how you're able to gain this in-depth insight to to the Japanese mind when you say you're basically constantly busy 24/7 with only an hour to spend with your daughter. Where are you learning about all these 'Japanese marriages' in London?

As for your colleauges with kids. Out of curiosity, is the wife Japanese and they Western? And do they speak to their daughter in Japanese or in a foreign language? Because if the daughter just see their father a few hours a day due to their work, even if the father speaks in her native foreign language, the daughter is not going to learn or understand much.

Your kid is not even five years old. How in the world can you claim what your daughter is going to learn or understand?

You're basically a walking, talking example of confirmation bias.

 

[bentenmusume]

Wait until you have children it all changes.

Clearly, I have nothing more to contribute here, because the OP only wants to hear a certain thing (opinions that coincide with what he already believes about Japan and his wife). You are giving him that, whereas I'm trying to offer another perspective, so of course he's going to listen to and upvote you while dismissing me.

That said, I resent the implication that you know my relationship with my wife (and my friends' relationships with their wives) better than I do, and are somehow qualified to "educate" me on the nature of any and all marriages in Japan.

No one in their right mind would talk about "marriage in the US (or UK)" as if every single Western couple was the same, but people are all too quick to lump all of Japan/Japanese people into the same category as if they weren't individual human beings. Are there certain cultural differences and traits? Sure. Does this mean that one can extrapolate that every single Japanese marriage/person/child/education/what-have-you will turn out exactly according to certain stereotypes? Of course f***ing not, because the world doesn't work that way.

I genuinely pity you people if you've already written off your significant others (and, in some way, your own lives, because you've chosen to spend them with these women) by thinking "oh, she's Japanese, of course this is just the way it's going to be."

This is not going to assist the OP, regardless of what you may or may not think, we are not here to make comparisons with other countries about different aspects of the culture, we are here to assist the OP understand how things are here in Japan.

The latter is quite literally the only thing I've been trying to do in this thread. The difference is that you are sharing your experience in terms of exactly the sort of stereotypes the OP believes (and wants to hear), and thus he is being very receptive to that. I am trying (desperately) to point out that it is not so easy to generalize about an entire nation/culture/society, and that every human being and relationship is different, and the both of you are talking to me as if I have two heads and am saying the moon is made of green cheese.

"The Japanese way" is what I am seeing from my wife, in-laws and other foreigners living in Japan. Good to see that you are able to do things different to how native Japanese people will do them and everything is fine.

That's not what he's saying. What he's saying is that your understanding of "the Japanese way" is far too narrow, and that even in Japan, there are a wide range of personality types and lifestyles, and not everyone is a passive, submissive robot who approaches life in 100% the same manner.

As for your colleauges with kids. Out of curiosity, is the wife Japanese and they Western?

Yes, of course. Why would I have given the example if it were irrelevant to your point?

And do they speak to their daughter in Japanese or in a foreign language?

Many speak their own language specifically to give their child exposure to both languages, while also speaking Japanese at times when communicating with both their child and their wife (though in most cases, both the father and mother are fluent in both languages). It's honestly quite funny to me that I am telling you I know many happy, loving Japanese/Western couples where father, mother, and child are communicative in both parents' languages, and you're basically telling me that this is impossible just because it doesn't jive with your own experience.

My daughter does NOT speak English, she has been all the time with her Japanese mum who has not made any effort to teach her any English, hence that my daughter is a proper Japanese kid living in the UK.

Once your daughter starts going to school in the UK, she will be exposed to plenty enough English to make her a native speaker in the language, whereas if your wife (and other Japanese people, be it friends or at a Japanese language school) does not speak Japanese to her, she will have no chance to acquire the language, and yet you somehow resent your wife for teaching your daughter Japanese?

The lazyness is one thing, another thing is the way she thinks, reacts to experiences in life, wants to improve her knowledge, etc. (...) I guess the line between education and culture gets blurry at some point but the difference in ways of doing things and think is a fact as well. So it has to come from somewhere.

Yep, all Japanese people think the same way, and react to life experiences with absolutely no curiosity or interest in improving their own knowledge. That is why the entire nation of Japan has produced exactly zero artists, authors, scientists, scholars, Nobel prize winners, etc. in its entire history. Oh, no, wait, it has—but obviously those people are just exceptions to the rule (maybe they had Western friends who were able to enlighten or educate them?), and everyone _else_ in Japan is a passive, submissive robot. Confirmation bias. Look it up.

I don't know if 'love' means something else for Japanese people but they're quite cold in general in relationships. I don't want to go outside the main topic of education though, so maybe if we don't expand on these differences as that can create more confussion even.

Yep, all Japanese people feel the same way about "love", just like all Westerners do. Sorry that you had to marry a cold-hearted Japanese woman instead of a loving, enlightened, open-minded Westerner who perfectly shares your mindset, because of course everyone from the same culture shares exactly the same outlook on life.

I'm sorry, I've gotten a bit sarcastic here, which isn't really my intention, but I'm just extremely frustrated with how the both of you seem unwilling or unable to consider alternative views that don't align with your own personal experiences.

I think I'm going to bow out of this thread, not because I harbor any ill will towards either of you as human beings, but because I've said all I have to say. To the OP, I wish you the best of luck and happiness with your family. To the other jt (this is sort of confusing), our experiences seem to be quite different, but it seems at least you're content with your life here, so I hope that continues.

To everyone else, it was nice chatting.

(I only saw DragonAsh's post after my own went up, but I just wanted to say that I agree 100%. I notice we even used some of the same wording. Good to know that I'm not completely out of my mind.)

 

[mickael28]

How do you know what the 'Japanese way' is if you've never lived in Japan? What you have seen is *your wife's* way. You say you're so constantly busy, so I don't know how you could have all this time to spend hours in deep discussion with other Japanese friends about their marriages and such - so how can you claim to have such detailed insight in to the 'Japanese way'?

The Japanese way is a way of talking to express that total strangers know about how my relationship with a Japanese woman and my life is, with details!, since we were boyfriends, to when we got married, to when we had kids, to when they changed their character, to how that charater changed, etc etc. It'd be impossible for anyone other than myself if there was not anything in common with what's happening.

I don't have a clue about these details about siblings, close friends and even less strangers. How people can even know about how my wife behaves without knowing her, it's just a mystery to me. And the only explanation I can find is that there are a lot of things in common that Japanese people learn whilst growing up that makes them behave that way. A pre-determined way in a lot of actions.

Do your kids go to school on the weekends? On holidays? Vacations?

Yes, she goes to Japanese school and Japanese clubs on weekends, and for all her school holidays to Japan.

Of course your daughter doesn't speak English -now-, she's growing up with a Japanese mother. She will start going to school, and will learn English (assuming you stay in the UK) whether you like it or not. My children didn't learn English until they started going to school. There was little need to learn English; at the parks and such we went to there were children from all over the world, and they still played together just fine. Once they got in to school, of course, they all learned English really fast, and even now after almost a year back in Japan, they still speak English to each other.

We'll that's the issue at the moment. That my wife in the last couple of months just talks about wanting to go to Japan, ASAP. If it were from her, she'd go this month. Which would mean that my daughter moves back without having learnt English yet.

I still wonder how you're able to gain this in-depth insight to to the Japanese mind when you say you're basically constantly busy 24/7 with only an hour to spend with your daughter. Where are you learning about all these 'Japanese marriages' in London?

As you might have seen by know, all activities we do in London are with the Japanese community. She meets her Japanese friends to go to Japanese parties, or go to the park with Japanese kids, or events, and I've met a lot of married people (Japanese/Japanese and Western/Japanese) and talking about different subjects with them, is how one gets their ideas.

Your kid is not even five years old. How in the world can you claim what your daughter is going to learn or understand?

Not sure what that meant but I'm saying that she's got the problem that she can just speak Japanese whilst she's living in London, having problems understanding even basic things with myself, with my family, with the teachers, difficulty making friends which she cannot understand, etc

I am trying (desperately) to point out that it is not so easy to generalize about an entire nation/culture/society, and that every human being and relationship is different,

That's what I think from a theoretical point of view, but as detailed more extensively above, when strangers know my life and my relationship as well as I do even without knowing my wife. It makes you wonder how on earth is that possible. As what you are saying, in normal circumstances, that's not possible at all. So there has to be some kind of commonality in my marriage and my wife so that people can accurately guess how my life is evolving. Sometimes even they know what's going to happen, before it has happened (like how my wife was going to change with the kid and everything involved).
I didn't believe them, as it was impossible to know how an individual was going to behave in the future, until it happened, and they nailed it, to my surprise.

Many speak their own language specifically to give their child exposure to both languages, while also speaking Japanese at times when communicating with both their child and their wife (though in most cases, both the father and mother are fluent in both languages). It's honestly quite funny to me that I am telling you I know many happy, loving Japanese/Western couples where father, mother, and child are communicative in both parents' languages, and you're basically telling me that this is impossible just because it doesn't jive with your own experience.

I'm not saying it's impossible, I am saying that in those cases quite likely either the kids speak the Western language as well or the Western father speaks Japanese, as it won't be possible to communicate other way (without both, parent and kid, speaking the same language).

Once your daughter starts going to school in the UK, she will be exposed to plenty enough English to make her a native speaker in the language, whereas if your wife (and other Japanese people, be it friends or at a Japanese language school) do not speak Japanese to her, she will have no chance to acquire the language, and yet you somehow resent your wife for teaching your daughter Japanese?

I am not resenting my wife to teach her Japanese, in fact, I have always encouraged her to teach her as much as possible, join her to clubs/classes, etc. But, our daughter should learn English as well (to help her make friends more easily - dont' just delegate the total responsability of this to the teachers and wait 4 years until she starts learning anything of the language of the country where she is living) and if the 3 of us are talking, use English so that we 3 can talk together. Even the teachers and professionals in the school specialized in cases where kids don't speak much English told us that, as we went specifically for this, and still... my wife has not changed anything and doesn't speak to her anything in English.

I'm sorry, I've gotten a bit sarcastic here, which isn't really my intention, but I'm just extremely frustrated with how the both of you seem unwilling or unable to consider alternative views that don't align with your own personal experiences.

I think I'm going to bow out of this thread, not because I harbor any ill will towards either of you as human beings, but because I've said all I have to say. To the OP, I wish you the best of luck and happiness with your family. To the other jt (this is sort of confusing), our experiences seem to be quite different, but it seems at least you're content with your life here, so I hope that continues.

Sorry if it seems to you I am not listening. I really am, and thank you for all the posts and showing me a different way to see things. I don't fully understand it yet I must say, as what you mentioned, my limited experience is quite different and I am still trying to put pieces together to understand how people can know my life and relationship when married to a Japanese woman if each one of them is a different individual like basically happens in the places where I've lived (mainly Spain and UK so far).

I just wanted to let you know and thank you again for the posts. All the best!

 

[bentenmusume]

I know I said my previous post would be my last, but I just wanted to say thank you for keeping the discussion civil and cordial. Despite us not seeing eye to eye (yet?) because of our vastly different experiences, I appreciate that you're at least making an honest effort to consider what I and others are saying. If you keep an open mind about things going forward (regardless of where you eventually decide to live) I suspect that your perspective will gradually expand, and that you and your family will be much happier for it.

I don't fully understand it yet I must say, as what you mentioned, my limited experience is quite different and I am still trying to put pieces together to understand how people can know my life and relationship when married to a Japanese woman if each one of them is a different individual like basically happens in the places where I've lived (mainly Spain and UK so far).

I would argue, firstly, that they don't fully understand your life and relationship. I would also argue (not to be rude) that you don't fully understand your wife's perspective either. You might be inclined to think that all the situations are the same because they share certain common traits (all of which are foreign to your experience, and thus stand out more), but what is happening beneath the surface is almost certainly far, far more nuanced. If it was true that all Japanese people shared a common mindset, all Westerners shared another, and never the twain shall meet, then it would stand to reason that all intra-cultural marriages would succeed and all extra-cultural ones would fail—something that is obviously not the case. The former might be easier to navigate than the latter due to a shared cultural background, but at the end of the day, you are still talking about two unique human beings who will, simply by definition, have both similarities and differences that they will need to work out through communication and experience.

I'm going to make an analogy that might seem somewhat off-topic and arcane, but try to bear with me. I've been searching for a way to illustrate why people find it so easy to make sweeping generalizations about people of other nationalities/cultural groups that they would never make with their own (and mind you, by no means am I saying that this is a one-way street—many Japanese people are all too quick to draw conclusions about "foreigners" as if they were some monolithic entity), and the best I can do is liken it to a sort of color-blindness.

If you've spend your whole life thinking in terms of red and yellow (and the colors that can be formed by combining them), then the first time you encounter azure, cerulean, turquoise, and violet, you might think "what's the difference? they're all just blue." On the other hand, consider a person who's spent their whole life thinking in terms of shades of blue. To that person, red, yellow, and orange will just seem like random loud colors at first, not nearly as nuanced as what they know.

It's only after considerable exposure to all colors on the spectrum that one is able to appreciate that while some might be closer to each other than others, all of them are unique and, in many cases, even contain elements of one another.

Wishing the best to you and your family.

 

[Mike Cash]

You keep on trying to rationalize your way out of your problem and you're going to end up divorced with your kid halfway around the world anyway.

 

[DragonAsh]

Even the teachers and professionals in the school specialized in cases where kids don't speak much English told us that, as we went specifically for this

You said your child was 4. Which mean she's not even in Year 1 yet, she's in reception, and there is an astonishingly small chance that a proper specialist would tell you to 'speak English at home so the child learns English'. My cite is both my children that also had visits with language specialists when entering Grade 1 precisely because they were coming from a family with more than one language spoken.

Also, what Mike Cash said.

 

[johnnyG]

On the off chance that someone reading this thread might wonder if anything normal/wonderful happens in Japan...

Daughter, wife & grand-daughter, guitar: (tonite)

 

[mickael28]

It's only after considerable exposure to all colors on the spectrum that one is able to appreciate that while some might be closer to each other than others, all of them are unique and, in many cases, even contain elements of one another.

Wishing the best to you and your family.

Thanks again, same there!

You keep on trying to rationalize your way out of your problem and you're going to end up divorced with your kid halfway around the world anyway.

Yes, that's another possibility, which might be the right one as long as at the end we all live a happy life. Trickier because of the distance and the stories about parents not seeing their kids after divorcing a Japanese partner, but it might well happen.

You said your child was 4. Which mean she's not even in Year 1 yet, she's in reception, and there is an astonishingly small chance that a proper specialist would tell you to 'speak English at home so the child learns English'. My cite is both my children that also had visits with language specialists when entering Grade 1 precisely because they were coming from a family with more than one language spoken.

Also, what Mike Cash said.

As well as her class teacher that's what we were told by the Special Educational Needs specialist which the school provided (external to the school), so I was going by what those professionals told us, which made sense anyway as my daughter could not follow anything about what teachers or her little mates where doing in class.

Daughter, wife & grand-daughter, guitar: (tonite)

Good old times, congrats!

Thanks all again for your views!

 

[Mike Cash]

Yes, that's another possibility, which might be the right one as long as at the end we all live a happy life. Trickier because of the distance and the stories about parents not seeing their kids after divorcing a Japanese partner, but it might well happen.

If that's the way you think then you're done already. The most important thing to you is your personal happiness, not being a man and living up to your obligations to the family you created.

 

[mickael28]

If that's the way you think then you're done already. The most important thing to you is your personal happiness, not being a man and living up to your obligations to the family you created.

My obligations to my family are that they all are happy, with or without me. There are cases when it doesn't make sense to keep on doing something that's counter-productive as that would make no good to anyone.

I'm trying that this doesn't happen, hence that I was exploring the possibility of moving to Japan. But it's certainly a possibility, which if taken, will be the best thing for my wife's future happiness as well as my daughter's and mine.

 

[jt9258]

Clearly, I have nothing more to contribute here, because the OP only wants to hear a certain thing (opinions that coincide with what he already believes about Japan and his wife). You are giving him that, whereas I'm trying to offer another perspective, so of course he's going to listen to and upvote you while dismissing me.

Have you ever thought that the reason the OP dismisses you is because your opinion does not reflect what he is experiencing in his situation and what he sees in his relationship is how I described it.

Why do you have a hard time believing that some one can actually learn and understand the way Japanese people think?

I understand you are offering up another perspective, but what is that perspective based on, because if its western logic how do you think that will appeal to the Japanese mind?