Why do Muslim women wear veils?

[abdalrasyid]

"Muslim women must wear Hijab,How many times should we repeat that."

I don't object to women wearing the hijab.

What I find objectionable is men telling women they MUST wear the hijab.

the best for u to understand how really the muslim woman are by asking a muslim(ah) woman themselves. Not only the woman that have obligation to cover themselves properly, but also man. And if a man dont act or do as muslim should do, every muslim have right to warn him and straighten his behavior.

So its work on both side, on male and female. If Hezam found me, drinking alcohol he have right to warn me and forbid me for doing so, if that happen in the muslim country i deserve to be punish.

Its a law Roland, and every law draw a line, not only muslim law, but also christian law, budhist law, democratic law, communist or socialist law, and if some-one goes out from the line there are warning and punishment.

But u must know, here, in Indonesia. Things are work pretty contrary, there are many muslim(ah) who want to wear her hijab, but being forbid by their work place, school, institution, even their own family. Yes even we are the most populated muslim in the world that things still happen. So many muslimah here are force to put down their hijab by their bos, teacher, husband even their parents. This event also happening in some europe country for example french.

So its really depend on how wise we look at the situation. But i have suggestion for u, to understand how muslim woman really feel its cant be gather by reading point of view of non-muslim, to know it the best why dont u ask muslimah woman themselves? on how are they feeling? Some media are just taking picture here and there and write their own review and point of view on how their condition without minding asking their oppinion in the first place, unless it support their issue.

Why dont u ask our sister here, Ummah Sould and Redflower. She take a role as muslimah she must know better then any media that wrote things about her. She even know better then u and me. Because she is the one that we talking about. Best to ask her.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

"the best for u to understand how really the muslim woman are by asking a muslim(ah) woman themselves. Not only the woman that have obligation to cover themselves properly, but also man. And if a man dont act or do as muslim should do, every muslim have right to warn him and straighten his behavior."

It seems to me that you're giving up a lot of personal liberty there. In the US, and especially here in Alaska, we value our liberties very highly. If someone so warned me to "straighten" my behavior, I'd tell him to go do something unprintable. We would not tolerate religious laws here.

But I will grant a point in your favor. In your own countries, you have the right to establish standards of public decency. Here, a woman who goes topless in public, or anyone who goes naked, would be arrested. Still, requiring woman as a matter of law to cover their faces, while not imposing the same requirement on men, seems sexist to me.

The women get to check out the men, and the men don't get to check out the women. Not fair.

 

[abdalrasyid]

I will grant a point in your favor

Ty for.. granting me your point of favor, i will keep it save in my wallet if u let me so In return for your kindness i will explain u this matter.

Let me quote your argumentation :

It seems to me that you're giving up a lot of personal liberty there. In the US, and especially here in Alaska, we value our liberties very highly. If someone so warned me to "straighten" my behavior, I'd tell him to go do something unprintable

U said in the US, everybody have their "personal liberty", if everyone warn u to be "straighten" your behavior, u tell him to go.

I little bit concern about the definition of "personal liberty", what is the definition of personal liberty? so i can differs this is personal liberty, and others is not a personal liberty? Because this is a forum, and i cant get your answer directly according to this matters, i must struggle in my own effort to try to understand what do you mean by "personal liberty".

from one website i got this definition :

Freedom to behave as one pleases, circumscribed by the laws and codes of conduct of the society in which one lives.


businessdictionary.com/definition/personal-liberty.html#ixzz147UreHje

its a freedom to behave but its also strict or must harming (1) the law (legal law) and (2) codes of conduct of the society (a law that being agree as code of conduct by various society that live in USA). Its not something like u can do what-ever u want to do as u please, there are still a law that u must obey, first is your nation law, second is your society law, i want to ask you something, do Islam count as one of society in US that have their own codes of conduct? applying their code of conduct in their own society is maybe not appearing as their freedom as muslim society, but it is their right as muslim society according to this definition. Because codes of conduct not something that being neglect by this definition, further, its become the borderline, to define the term of "personal liberty".
Its a good law indeed, i praise it, in Islam at the time of the Caliph Umar Ibn Khatab ra. eventhough muslim have their own law to justify their personal affair, but the other non-muslim society like christian and jew, are giving an authority to use their own law to justify their own community not by Islamic law, but by their own law. This what i call balance. And that right being protect by the Syariah and execute by the Amirul Mukminin himself (the leader of believer)

And the hijab is one of the code of conduct in Muslim society.

Here, a woman who goes topless in public, or anyone who goes naked, would be arrested.

Now my question is, if u consider a personal liberty, not being strict by the law and society code of conduct, can we consider woman going out naked is also their personal liberty for being naked? can we? yes we can. So in what manners they have to arrest this naked woman spamming on the street? there are two possibility, first there are clear law that state its forbid to woman going out naked on the street, secondly its becoming wellknown as society code of conducts relating on things like "ethics" even more further "moral" issue.

And the different between my society of code of conducts and your society of code of conducts is lay on our difference in ethics. On your society u can accept if a woman wear clothes that not covering the shape of her body, so everybody will turn on her (shape) nakedness and said "wow!", its still alright. Further if they open it, little in this part, little on that part, and much of that part, and the results exposing her half naked chest, and most of her thigh, she 90 percent naked, its still "yeah ok, no problem". But if she put nothing on her body, and go on the street naked, like a bird or lizard u will says "hey ladies that already gone to far".

While we muslim, already define our own ethics on how the proper way should we cover our body. And establishing that law is not harming any muslim(ah) personal liberty, more further is being support by personal liberty itself according to the definition.

In the simple way, we do exactly the same thing rolland, the difference between u and me on this matters, or the line that seperate both of us, is how we define things. And yeah, i dont like my wife being stare by some-one or go on solo fashion show on the street and subway showing her body to all the strangers and pervert, then go to tv half naked being watch by the entire world. I cant imagine that. And so muslimah feel the same thing as i do. And maybe, deep in they hearth all woman feel the same.

I hope u do satisfy with my explanation Rolland.

 

[red flower]

The suicide rate in muslims's countries is zero or almost zeroThe suicide rate in USA is very high
The suicide rate in some non muslim countries is very high too either in the west or in the east

do you thing that (almost zero) has anything to do with the rules of Islamic religion??

yes ,, it does

these rules seems stric to others, but the truth is when you look deeply inside the meaning of them, you'll discover amazing things
Islam's rules are not superficial, it deal with the soul, with what will happen in the future etc

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

Video: Dream wedding Swiss pair humiliated at Maldives ceremony

An example of Muslim tolerance?

 

[abdalrasyid]

i have wrong expectation about u Rolland. So u use to generalize us? eventough we never support that idea? u want us to generalize u as well?

is this your implementation of human right and freedom in US?



is this how the american respect woman?



can i generalizing u have the same quality morale as the example of the video above? this is the reason u pay your taxes? because u want to support killing the innocent, raping of some-one wife and daughter? and you calling those who stand for their honor, right and dignity as terrorist?

 

[abdalrasyid]

We dont support that act so do Islam. But if u want to generalize us, i will back generalizing u either.

Is this how American respect woman liberty and freedom Rolland?

youtube.com/watch?v=t3w2mGQ7V3Q&feature=related

is this a morale of american?

youtube.com/watch?v=DZmUv18a1zU

are u on the same level of quality of those who done this thing Rolland? do u pay taxes to support this war, who kill 1 million woman and chilldern civilian only in Iraq? (man civilian uncount) is this the soul of moral value in US? are u them?

 

[bruno]

The suicide rate in muslims's countries is zero or almost zeroThe suicide rate in USA is very high
The suicide rate in some non muslim countries is very high too either in the west or in the east
do you thing that (almost zero) has anything to do with the rules of Islamic religion??
yes ,, it does
these rules seems stric to others, but the truth is when you look deeply inside the meaning of them, you'll discover amazing things
Islam's rules are not superficial, it deal with the soul, with what will happen in the future etc

There are always mentally ill people in every population and a high proportion of depressed people and those who suffer from mood related disorders commit suicide. If Islam does not allow suicide it is likely that families could be hiding the actual facts !!

 

[undrentide]

There are always mentally ill people in every population and a high proportion of depressed people and those who suffer from mood related disorders commit suicide. If Islam does not allow suicide it is likely that families could be hiding the actual facts !!

...or suicide is categorized under different name in the stats by those countries, such as "death by disease".

 

[red flower]

There are always mentally ill people in every population and a high proportion of depressed people and those who suffer from mood related disorders commit suicide. If Islam does not allow suicide it is likely that families could be hiding the actual facts !!

Nothing is hiding, at least from the nightbours ,not metioned the press
. i do not mean the suicide which commited by mentally ill people, i mean the one which commited by a man who was abandond by his lovers, a depressed woman, a man failed in his career etc
we can't just called everyone committed suicide is ill ! no not at all, the ill people are different, their mind are not good and not those i mean

and Yes, I do agree with some of what you said, there are lots of mentally ill people in every population, but still the suicide rate in Islamic countries is almost nothing comparing to other non muslim countries

there is a website called islam question and answer just write that name in google and you'll find it
it is in 12 language, go there and cartainly you will find your language Japaness

by the way, this reply is not a praise of muslims, it is a praise of Islamic rules

 

[red flower]

...or suicide is categorized under different name in the stats by those countries, such as "death by disease".

do you have any evidence?
because i hear no such a thing
people in my country and in some poor countries stick to this life despite their depress or illness and they grow old with what they have of lost
unlike some people, they are singers, actors, have a lot of money, famous .. and committ suicide when they feel a bit depress, or their lovers abandon them etc

 

[bruno]

"And do not kill yourselves. Surely, Allah is Most Merciful to you". (Surah An-Nisa Verse 29)
In another verse of the Quraan, Allah says:
"And do not throw yourselves in destruction". (Surah Al-Baqarah Verse 195)
The impact of this injunction still has considerable force in Islamic countries, and it may be one reason why, with the exception of Jordan and Turkey, there is no recorded suicide in national statistics of the Islamic Nations. But, in the last decade or so there has been a substantial increase of suicide in Muslims living in Non-Muslim countries, namely Britain and America.
www.inter-islam.org/.../suicide.html

 

[abdalrasyid]

Well Bruno, nice to seeing u quoting an Islamic website to understand Islam, i credit it as fair aprochal, but to be fair i havent check all the topic and discussion at your site refrence. So i cant yet claim if this is a good Islamic website, because it will be only an act of asumption. But i already bookmark it (before i write this latest sentence), thank you.

Back to topic, i want to ask you a question, what law can be apply to the dead man? if a person want to commit a suicide, i can guarentee, if he ever taking a step back from that action it musnt be because feeling affraid for the punishment on certain state region according to suicide action, he will be death anyway (and law cant be impelement to the already dead man). Things that will canceling him on doing that act is what we call "iman" (in muslim case), or faith. we have faith, that suicide only resulting suffering to us on the here after, i cant imagene i trade my 60 year of suffering (im26 now) with an eternal suffering. Compare 60 year (or it can be faster then that) with eternity, math will give u a result of zero, 0, what is zero mean according to this matter of comparition? maybe its mean, its not a worth to compare. 60 year, is even not a bink of an eye compare to eternity.

Second, we believe what ever happen to us, the end result only for our own good and benefit. We call it Husnudzon, its like positive thinking. Thrid we put faith, behind the hard part of life there is an easy part. Like the ayah below from Surah As-Sharh :

Verily then along with every hardship is ease. (5) Verily along with every hardship is ease. (6) Toil then when thou art relieved. (7) And attend thou to thy Lord. (8)

Wallahualam

 

[abdalrasyid]

"And do not kill yourselves. Surely, Allah is Most Merciful to you". (Surah An-Nisa Verse 29)
In another verse of the Quraan, Allah says:
"And do not throw yourselves in destruction". (Surah Al-Baqarah Verse 195)
The impact of this injunction still has considerable force in Islamic countries, and it may be one reason why, with the exception of Jordan and Turkey, there is no recorded suicide in national statistics of the Islamic Nations. But, in the last decade or so there has been a substantial increase of suicide in Muslims living in Non-Muslim countries, namely Britain and America.
www.inter-islam.org/.../suicide.html

i have find my free time, i found this :

Suicide rates of the world and why people kill themselves

i think its fun to read this free article because she provide us with clear statistic, and grouping the classes on each country. According to the class, muslim country appear on the 4 class, which is the most low, no-suicide at all.

No record for suicide in muslim country doesnt mean that they dont have any recorded data about the death cause, but they found there is no death being cause by suicide.

Assuming there is a faking-according to this assesment its "faking good", on the base assumption because suicide are being forbid in Islam so people tend to faking it. But one must know, suicide is not only being forbid on Islamic law, but also in Christian, Judhaism and Hindust (in Bhagavat Githa), so this assumption can't be appear as an argument since it have no "evidence" and second this argument can only being apply if there are no other religion beside Islam that forbiding the suicide, because they have also forbiding hence they have same probability on faking but they also got their number of suicide.

Have u encounter a cockroach? maybe we seeing them as low creature that mean nothing, but see how they will to survive while we attempt on killing them. They value their life so high, even they only a cockroach.

 

[Mycernius]

The suicide rate in muslims's countries is zero or almost zeroThe suicide rate in USA is very high
The suicide rate in some non muslim countries is very high too either in the west or in the east

False claim. A lot of Muslim countries do not publish data on suicide rates. I cannot find any for Saudi arabia, Yemen, Oman, Turkey, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Indonesia, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Malaysia in a qucik search I think I would have to dig very deeply to find any. Those that have are old data.
http://chartsbin.com/view/prm
File:Suicide rates map-en.svg - Wikipedia

do you thing that (almost zero) has anything to do with the rules of Islamic religion??
yes ,, it does

Again a false claim with no data to back it up. Either cite sources with a link or do not make such claims. From what I can find the muslims countries that do publish sucide rate are low, but match with South American countries (high christian population). There appears to be no correlation between suicide rates and which faith you follow.

these rules seems stric to others, but the truth is when you look deeply inside the meaning of them, you'll discover amazing things

I look over some islamic laws and I see some evry barabric practices and ones that belong in the Dark Ages. Death for witchcraft in Saudi Arabia. I mean what, witchcraft?

Islam's rules are not superficial, it deal with the soul, with what will happen in the future etc

Please provide evidence for a soul thank you. Until such time I will regard some of islams laws to belong back in the 8th century and not in the 21st.

http://nitawriter.wordpress.com/2007...-of-the-world/

i think its fun to read this free article because she provide us with clear statistic, and grouping the classes on each country. According to the class, muslim country appear on the 4 class, which is the most low, no-suicide at all.

The ones that published the rates. Plus you still fail in trying to show that muslims have a lower suicide rate because she also puts the UK (Christian, but with a high secular community), Brazil (christian), Thailand (Mainly Buddhist), Argentina (christian) and Israel (Jewish) in the same class. You still fail.

 

[abdalrasyid]

I look over some islamic laws and I see some evry barabric practices and ones that belong in the Dark Ages. Death for witchcraft in Saudi Arabia. I mean what, witchcraft?
Please provide evidence for a soul thank you. Until such time I will regard some of islams laws to belong back in the 8th century and not in the 21st.

This is more important then any, and this topic will be widespread to many issue. And i think this is more fundamental to answer before responding to any other subject and topic.
You consider Islam law or syariah as 8th century law. Further u give an example death setence for practicing witchcraft as a sign.

Do u think the transformation on miedeval law into modern law, are sign of human develptment againts law? Now before i start giving my explanation let me first hear your explanation on what evidence, argument or historical comparation u make a conclusion that modern european law are better then our Islamic law? I have my oppinion, but i will keep it first, so the discussion can work more dialecticly.

Yes. Islam recognize death sentence on witchcraft as any Abrahamic religion do, and do u have any idea what is witchcraft? have u saw it? do u know the base philosophy of it? and do u know that witchcraft perform sacrifycing on living things, include human and infant?

before answering my question, first watch this video, and after that tell me why we should tolarete witchcraft.

Interview with Vikcki Polin

check this also

They always appearing as occult, secret society, and if there are nothing awful, immoral, criminal behind their ritual, i wonder why should they hide it.

And yes, Jin and satan worshiper (that are mostly the main base of blackmagic), said like Anton Lavey, are death sentence in Islam. Its something that cant be negotiate. If u call it backward, then let it be your believe and your own oppinion.

 

[Mycernius]

And how many wiccan or witches have you met in your life? I know a few and they do not practice animal or any other type of sacrifice. Also I have yet to see any evidence of a successful spell. Witchcraft is woo, just as I find your religion, and others, woo. There is no magic, just as their is no all powerful bi-polar being looking over us. Now stop trying to push 7th century desert laws on a 21st century world aling with a ajusted desert deity that was origibnally a Canaanite war god.
You also show a lack of knowledge on LeVayan Satanism. Try actually reading his Satanic bible. Another hint, jin and satan do not exist either.

 

[Hezam]

Now stop trying to push 7th century desert laws on a 21st century world aling with a ajusted desert deity that was origibnally a Canaanite war god.

oh! this is very offensive,While the desert built the new modern world most people in the green lands in europe still refusing that the western civilization & sciences are an advanced version of that desert civilization & sciences you mocked.
This is very depressed.

 

[abdalrasyid]

And how many wiccan or witches have you met in your life? I know a few and they do not practice animal or any other type of sacrifice. Also I have yet to see any evidence of a successful spell. Witchcraft is woo, just as I find your religion, and others, woo. There is no magic, just as their is no all powerful bi-polar being looking over us. Now stop trying to push 7th century desert laws on a 21st century world aling with a ajusted desert deity that was origibnally a Canaanite war god.
You also show a lack of knowledge on LeVayan Satanism. Try actually reading his Satanic bible. Another hint, jin and satan do not exist either.

Lavey in first explanation try to connect satanism with similiary Nietzsche ideology, try to first deny the existence of god and other atheism campaign. Human being as animal that have a freedom to perform their desire, no such things like moral value the only moral are valor and strenght. Satanism is a symbol as a rejection of God and all things like that for the start. But he do explain u about the ritual, isnt u catch? and if u find it in the end, he just like Aleister Crowley in english, as u english man u do know.

Sayying desert 7th century isnt an argument Mycerius, its can be intimidation, insults, or maybe it can also be a super subjective point of view, imagination, hallucination but it cant never be an argument. As u know this 7th law as u recall are able to bring a domain that spread from africa to europe in the time of Caliphate Umar Ibn Abdul Aziz resulting no number of poverty, no zakat (charity) to be given, no man hold debt, no one live homeless, and its suprise me i first hearing about this caliphate not from the muslim.

There are no ideology, economic system, that able to match that record. Its being proove not ideologically but historically, its not the survey that proove but history. Comparing that economical system, into this contemporer capitalism, when a coorporate can be richer then a country, when banker are president to every politician, when world economic account are being decide only in one city : washington (world bank, US economic department and TNC/MNC equal to world foreign law on economy and trading) when poverty being create and un-employment results cheap labor, cheap labor produce margine. Compare this system with syariah, its like comparing deep abyssal sea with the highest sky. Its corrupt to the root.

Myc, put attention on my statement, dont mix time with quality, its like being plan inside our brain that the developtment of time are work in the same line with better system on politic, law and moral on human society. If it so there will be no word call decadence, demoralization, and other word that expressing time can resulting a decrease of quality toward things instead of increasing. If that is the case, no civilization be fall, greatest civilization will always being improving toward time, great become greatest, greatest become super, but that is not how things work. The early can be better then the last.
If u understand that basic simple thing, u will know, that u need argument on critizising Islamic law, point it as 7th century law, its not a reason, it cant be the logic.

Now lets we start from, do u think, modern prison punishment are better then Islamic punishment?

 

[abdalrasyid]

Canaanite war god.

this is a true false claim. Its weak from the root of the argument. Even the jew are better and more fair then u, even we battling them for over 50 year in palestine.

Hear from them the etimology of the word Allah swt.

Allah : Etimollogy

Insulting isnt the way to proove you are right and other wrong. Its weak to the root.

 

[abdalrasyid]

How many black magic performer have i met? megaliticum period, hindust monarch, nomaden society, simple farming society, industrial era, modern era until posmodern era like jakarta are exist here at once. We do have Dhani tribe, Dayax, javan animism dinamism and shamanism, Balinese mystism (Bali age) also black magic like Leak.

U dont ask me that question.

 

[Hezam]

Maybe he needs to visit Babel/India/Indonesia/Morocco to see how it works by his own eyes.
My family suffered from witchcraft...

 

[bruno]

While the desert built the new modern world most people in the green lands in europe still refusing that the western civilization & sciences are an advanced version of that desert civilization & sciences you mocked.

But :
'Scientific research in the Muslim world declined and the intellectual environment became inhospitable to the open and honest exchange of ideas.'
Prosperity and the rise and fall of Islam

 

[Hezam]

But :
'Scientific research in the Muslim world declined and the intellectual environment became inhospitable to the open and honest exchange of ideas.'
Prosperity and the rise and fall of Islam

I am very shocked !!
He said Scientific research declined because of Islam it self and Quran !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Such a stupid ignorant writer,He forgot the Mongol invasion and the Crusades that destroyed most libraries in Islamic world from Baghdad to Andalus (Corduba) !!!!
I don't know what part of Islam and Quran that declined the scientific research ?
He really drives me crazy !

If you just read about the destruction of Mongol and Crusades you will clearly understand why he claimed that Islam itself was the problem !
In Quran we have been orderd to search and open our minds,many many verses in Quran orderd muslims to search in their bodies and in the space and everything around.

Do you think you will have the time to make research while monsters from the west and the east came to cut your head ?
In crusades they eat the humans and animals in Palestine,and the Mongol made the biggest destruction in the earth.
the link shocked me...what an idiot that John L Perkins.

 

[bruno]

I am very shocked !!
Do you think you will have the time to make research while monsters from the west and the east came to cut your head ?

...and they still do ? Funny statement ! Have a nice day !