Why do japanese learn English so quickly?

[uchimizu]

Here are my 2 cents. Some japanese may not learn conversation in a foreign language very quickly as they are very afraid of making mistakes, and would only speak if they are sure the sentence is correct.

I learned japanese conversation through trial and error, and sometimes, it seems I made my japanese interlocutors laungh quite a lot. However, after 1/2 years in the country, I could have a fluent conversation.

 

[Kayumi]

By what I've been seeing, japanese don't speak english that well, but then again, there are a lot of exceptions. I myself learnt how to speak english in 5 years (3 hours a week for 50 months, basic grammar and vocabulary in the 5th grade 'til the harder grammer in the 11th), but what helped me the most were the videogames, playing Pokémon as a child helped me a lot. Japanese do speak english, but in Japanese.

 

[alantin]

I can understand how a japanese person moving to an English speaking country might give out an illusion of fast learning since at first he wouldn't be able to understand or produce speech but once he gets the hang of it, he would be able to tap into all the info gained from years upon years of studying grammar and translation.

I wonder. What do they actually do in eikaiwa? It is so popular in japan and still it seems they can do it for months without being able to converse.. ☝

 

[Kayumi]

I can understand how a japanese person moving to an English speaking country might give out an illusion of fast learning since at first he wouldn't be able to understand or produce speech but once he gets the hang of it, he would be able to tap into all the info gained from years upon years of studying grammar and translation.

Exactly. The best way to learn a language is to emerse ourselves in the language's country or to find a boy/girlfriend from that same country.
I speak english and spanish fluently, but if I eventually go to a spanish/english speaking country, my language skills will get much better since I will talk 24/7 to those languages natives/speakers.

With japanese its the same thing.

 

[Glenski]

Eikaiwa is the Japanese word for English conversation, even though many/most people use it as the name for the school that helps teach such.

In eikaiwa schools, teachers have classes of 2-10 students of varying ages. They spend 45-90 minutes (depending on the school) going over grammar points that were usually taught in junior and senior high. To that end it is a review for anyone who has graduated. Teachers are supposed to use whatever textbook is provided, plus their charming personality and razor-sharp wits, to get students to practice the grammar point and related vocabulary. They may make up exercises of their own, use the ones in the book, play recordings (for various purposes), or just sit and be lazy enough to chat aimlessly with students.

Some eikaiwa schools have rigid formats, and students rat on teachers who deviate. Some places even videotape classes!

Ideally, such places serve to review the grammar in a casual, friendly, useful way and give students time to talk about 80% of the period. In reality, things are a gray area.

Exactly. The best way to learn a language is to emerse ourselves in the language's country or to find a boy/girlfriend from that same country.

I disagree. Many people, including myself, are immersed with girlfriends/boyfriends/spouses who can't or won't teach. Being "immersed" if you teach English in Japan is a horrible way to learn Japanese. You are always "on" during work, and are prohibited from using Japanese in the classroom. Many teachers hang out only with native English speaking friends who don't care to learn the language and who put peer pressure on you to go out with them (and speak only English, often to bad-mouth the school or country).

It takes self-discipline, not immersion or an intimate friend, to learn the language.

 

[alantin]

Eikaiwa is the Japanese word for English conversation, even though many/most people use it as the name for the school that helps teach such.
In eikaiwa schools, teachers have classes of 2-10 students of varying ages. They spend 45-90 minutes (depending on the school) going over grammar points that were usually taught in junior and senior high.
...
Ideally, such places serve to review the grammar in a casual, friendly, useful way and give students time to talk about 80% of the period. In reality, things are a gray area.

Hence, me wondering the name..

How about "英文法". Sounds like it would be more appropriate.
Thanks for the explanation Glenski! That was pretty much what I thought it would be.

I once attended this really great English conversation class here in Finland. We would gather into a comfortable, cozy, little room and each time someone would bring a subject we would discuss. A newspaper article or something like that, that we would read before the conversation.
Then after an hour or so of discussion the teacher would correct some mistakes that were made frequently and give some hints for how to speak more naturally. This would take up to 10 or 15 minutes.

It was a really great format and I learned a lot! True "英会話"

I disagree. Many people, including myself, are immersed with girlfriends/boyfriends/spouses who can't or won't teach. Being "immersed" if you teach English in Japan is a horrible way to learn Japanese. You are always "on" during work, and are prohibited from using Japanese in the classroom. Many teachers hang out only with native English speaking friends who don't care to learn the language and who put peer pressure on you to go out with them (and speak only English, often to bad-mouth the school or country).

I will have to say that I believe strongly in immersion being the single best thing for language studies although that requires actually getting "immersed" to an environment in which you have to use the language to survive..
I thought I could speak Japanese when I went to Japan (I had been studying it by myself for about three years) but noticed soon how dead wrong I was. After three months of daily having to use it to get the simpliest things done, I could truly say that I could make myself understood in Japanese.

It was not perfect but I could ask for directions, have some sort of conversations with people, etc. I truly learned more in those three months than in the previous three years and even that short stay really gave a boost to my studies.

It takes self-discipline, not immersion or an intimate friend, to learn the language.

I do agree 110% in that it takes self-dicipline!
I learned basics of English in school, but I really started understanding it when I began to read books, watch stuff in TV, play computer games, chat in the internet, and talk with people in English.

Using it to do all kinds of fun stuff was what really teached me and the same goes for Japanese too.

To reach the point where doing "fun stuff" stops being a burden and actually becomes fun is where some serious dedication and self discipline is needed but there too some real immersion can make it a great deal easier.


Btw. If you learn from your spouse, don't you just end up speakin the wrong way..? I.e. a guy speaking like a girl.
So no luck there..

 

[KirinMan]

I think it helps to think of Eikaiwa's in Japan as the schools that you never graduate from!

 

[Glenski]

I once attended this really great English conversation class here in Finland. We would gather into a comfortable, cozy, little room and each time someone would bring a subject we would discuss. A newspaper article or something like that, that we would read before the conversation.
Then after an hour or so of discussion the teacher would correct some mistakes that were made frequently and give some hints for how to speak more naturally. This would take up to 10 or 15 minutes.

I once taught a class at eikaiwa with a similar format. Nobody read their news clippings beforehand.

I changed tactics on this higher level group and asked each one to bring in a news clipping every week. They had so summarize in a sentence or two, or just express their opinion if the topic was well-known, and then we chatted about it. I merely moderated. Worked very well.

However, that may have been just my luck. Some of the students were carryovers from previous classes I taught there, so they were comfortable with me, and maybe that helped the atmosphere for the others. Most people who go to eikaiwa just want to socialize with each other or the teacher and perhaps pick up some English as they do it, instead of studying hard to master the language.

I will have to say that I believe strongly in immersion being the single best thing for language studies although that requires actually getting "immersed" to an environment in which you have to use the language to survive..

It is good, indeed. A friend of mine got posted to a rural area and was forced to learn that way. No bilingual signs in town, no really semi-fluent locals. Of course, he learned only the street talk grammar, and when he faced situations where he should have used more polite Japanese, he failed miserably, but he shrugged it off saying, "I'm not Japanese. I'm a foreigner, so they cut me slack." Perhaps some did, but I know for a fact that some didn't and just didn't tell him.

Immersion, experienced (ideally, licensed) Japanese tutor, and lots of practice time are the best combination, of course.

Btw. If you learn from your spouse, don't you just end up speakin the wrong way..? I.e. a guy speaking like a girl.
So no luck there..

Doesn't work that way if either of you realizes what you are doing, but it IS something to be aware of.

 

[~AXI's.black.neko~]

i think learning other languages is difficult for Japanese people because of their language/writing/grammar system that is very different than other languages and because it depends on using characters as well and they start learning it by the age 4 i think,please correct me if im wrong.
for me i find learning English is very easy though some of my friends find it very difficult.
before i learned English my English was actually good and i improved it in just one year.
i think the environment is what really helps in learning other languages faster then anything.

 

[KirinMan]

i think learning other languages is difficult for Japanese people because of their language/writing/grammar system that is very different than other languages and because it depends on using characters as well and they start learning it by the age 4 i think,please correct me if im wrong.
for me i find learning English is very easy though some of my friends find it very difficult.
before i learned English my English was actually good and i improved it in just one year.
i think the environment is what really helps in learning other languages faster then anything.

Kids start "officially" learning Japanese when they enter Kindergarten here, around age 6. However just about every kid I know is being taught from a much younger age.

In my opinion learning English here, which happens to be a multi-billion dollar a year industry, is a fad to many. There are so many different reasons why people want to learn but most fail to take it seriously enough to actually "master" the language.

But what is "mastering" English? Being able to pass the Eiken Step Test? Being able to carry on a simple conversation with a native speaker of English? Watching a movie with out having to read the sub-titles?

The majority of people here that I know who speak English well use it on a daily basis in their work. They constantly are using the language so their level is much higher than most.

But what about the rest? Of course the language of Japan is not English. What's the point of having 120 million or so people speak English when the overwhelming majority will never have a need for it in their daily lives.

That is something that I have regularly scratched my head about.

 

[Glenski]

i think learning other languages is difficult for Japanese people because of their language/writing/grammar system that is very different than other languages

I'm sorry, but I don't agree. Look at the number of Chinese, Korean, and other Asian groups who seem to do well, not to mention those who learn Arabic and Farsi, Finnish and other languages.

and because it depends on using characters as well and they start learning it by the age 4

Characters? Japanese start with katakana and hiragana characters, if that is what you mean, and yes, that's around age 4 (if you judge by my own son's abilities). The earlier you get someone to learning a language, the easier it will be, regardless of any differences with L1.

i think the environment is what really helps in learning other languages faster then anything.

Environment helps, of course. My kid has learned far more than any full-blooded Japanese, even though I am his only English influence at home (and I don't teach him directly, after learning the ABCs).

But as I wrote above, simple immersion isn't enough.