What is your religion? Why?

[Tsuyoiko]

The non-theists on the forum (especially Mycernius) are being quite easy-going trying to attack the errors present in scripture. In all honesty, however, I see no reason why this should be done.

For the moral high ground. For example, one good reason to attack creationists is for their lack of scientific knowledge. Having a good knowledge of their scriptures prevents them from making a counterattack on the same grounds.

I see no need to continue in this thread !
It's a waste to discuss religions and faith.

That's why I avoided this thread 'til now ;-)

if you wan't me to give Koran scientific miracles . i can

Go on then.

No one is denying the existence of a God. You scientifically cannot deny the existence of anything 100%.

Although it's not possible to prove it beyond any possible doubt, I think it's possible to prove the non-existence of creator gods (including those of all major religions) beyond all reasonable doubt.

Traditionally, god was used to explain phenomena such as the existence and design of the universe. Modern science can explain these without reference to god, making god epistemically unnecessary, i.e., god is not required to explain anything. Similarly, science has shown the ether and crystal spheres around the planets to be epistemically unnecessary.

The theologian will try to counter by pointing out that there are some things science can't yet explain, the origin of life being the old chestnut, and that therefore god is necessary as an explanation for these: the god of the gaps. But in order to claim this, they must demonstrate it; this brings them back to square one because it reiterates the fact that the burden of proof is on them.

While this doesn't prove the non-existence of god with absolute certainty, I think it allows us to deny the existence of god in the same way that we deny the existence of the ether - a) because there is no evidence for it; and b) because it is epistemically unnecessary.

And I realise Dawkins got there before me...

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i'm a Moslem, i believe because i know that my religion is the only true religion
why.?
first, because iman.
second, because i read Al-Qur'an, i learn and understand the contents
third, because i read As-Sunnah, i learn and understand the contents
the fourth and so on, because all about Islam has been proven true

I read and understood Crime and Punishment but I don't worship Raskolnikov, or even Dostoevsky (not quite anyway ;-)).

 

[Haruspex]

For the moral high ground. For example, one good reason to attack creationists is for their lack of scientific knowledge. Having a good knowledge of their scriptures prevents them from making a counterattack on the same grounds

That is my problem there. Yeah, but that is precious little to compensate for the frustration. Like for example when you want to tear your own hair out when some random fool with 3 posts and no intention to actually stay, become acquanted with the people on the forums, and, well, essentially no desire to deviate from the holy mission, makes 'common sense' arguments and appeals to whatever source he or she recognises as utterly authoritative. I find that moral high ground doesn't really make up for the rage. Ridicule and insults seem to be more entertaining, but again, that is a subjective view.

 

[Mycernius]

master Mycernius

please this site's are for fun only
There is a difference between ridicule and proof
and i can give you many site's ridicule with any Religion
so please give me a direct question about Islam and don't give me sites for ridicule .
read the Koran and tell me what's wrong on him but don't copy from site

The one site I gave you is not a fun site, but is showing where the quran fails. It gives you the violence, the inconsistanties, the intolerance, the injustices, the morally questionable (regards homosexuality, women, infidels). I should also like to point out I have read the quran and found it lacking. Have you read the bible?
The other links I provided are to sites that explain why the quran is wrong on what it claims. They are not "fun" sites or one that ridicule, but are based on solid science. It is not my problem that you do not wish to learn and continually use circular reasoning.

if you wan't me to give Koran scientific miracles . i can

Come on then. I need a good laugh

No one will agree nor belive even if we show many proofs.

Still waiting on that one. So far nothing has come up which hasn't been easily debunked for the apologist BS that it is. I expect something from the likes of Harun Yahya or Dr. Naik Zakir, which have been debunked many times by people much better qualifed than either of them.

 

[mohamed]

Lo! Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment. Lo! Allah is ever Mighty, Wise. (56) And as for those who believe and do good works, We shall make them enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow - to dwell therein for ever; there for them are pure companions - and We shall make them enter plenteous shade. (57) surat al-nsaa



The sensation of skin pain



It was commonly believed, for several centuries, that the body is all sensitive to pain. It was not clear then that there were specialized nerves in the body responsible for transporting all kinds of pain and other sensations, until recently when anatomy has discovered the role of specialized nerve endings in transporting all different kinds of pain.



The most significant nerve sensations in the human body are:

The sensation of touch: the corpuscles responsible for such sensation are called Meissners and Merkels corpuscles.

The sensation of pain: this is transported by the nerve endings in the skin.

The sensation of heat: this is the responsibility of Ruffini cylinders corpuscles.

___________________________________________________________________
Taking skin burns as a distinct cause for the skin sensation of pain, burns can be divided into 3 types:



1- Burns of first degree (sun burns): these affect the epidermis causing swelling and moderate pain. The phenomena of redness, swelling and pain usually disappear within two to three days. (Figure 1).

2- Burns of second degree: epidermis and dermis are injured. In such a case, a detachment occurs between epidermis and dermis, causing the collection of secretions between these two layers (Figure 2). The injured person suffers from severe pain, and excessive increase of pain sensation, due to irritation of exposed nerve ending particularly after the outburst of blisters. The skin starts to heal within 14 days as a result of the process of renovation and inversion under the skin.

3- Burns of third degree: the whole skin thickness is burned and perhaps the injury may reach the muscles or the bone. The skin loses elasticity and becomes rough and dry. In this case, the injured person do not feel much pain, as nerve endings have been damaged almost completely due to burning (Figure 3).


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[mohamed]

The Quran which was revealed fourteen centuries ago to Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) states: "Whomsoever Allah desires to guide, He expands his chest to Islam; whomsoever He desires to lead astray, He makes his chest narrow, tight, as if he were climbing up to the sky." (6:125)


Thus, this verse displays a miraculous similitude when presenting a scientific fact in a very eloquent and accurate style. Points of the miracles of this verse are:


1- When people first heard of the verse of man's climbing to sky (space) , they considered it as a sort of imagination, and that Quran regards the ascension to space in a metaphorical manner. Actually the verse is a prophecy that came true centuries after it was first revealed.

2- The similitude is very accurate, as climbing to high distances in the air causes chest tightness and the feeling of suffocation. The more the ascension increases, the more tightness reaches so critical and difficult stage that respiration is not possible any more. That's why oxygen cylinders are taken when ascending up the sky, as in space ships !


Miracle is that this talk has been said from more than 1400 years of the Quran and Sunnah, and now we discover
And there is something you must recognize about him .
Is that the error in a book by the Word of God means that the book is not reliable any word of it

thanxs

 

[Haruspex]

Mohamed, you're full of ****.

 

[Hezam]

Mohamed, you're full of ****.

No insult please,Discuss or Watch.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

People never climbed mountains in ancient times? Never got out of breath from climbing stairs?

 

[mohamed]

We are looking for the truth mr RolandtheHeadless

and thanxs mr Derfel

 

[imuseto]

there's no point forcing them to believe in Islam, akhee
they will continue to deny the truth, even though they already know that it is a truth

Derfel, if you can't deny it anymore, you'd better keep quiet

"People never climbed mountains in ancient times? Never got out of breath from climbing stairs?"
yeah even though they never do that, they already knew what would happen if they do that

 

[Emoni]

I share Derfel's frustration to be honest. I'd repeat Derfel's comment about any religion making unproven claims, stating they know everything based on one ultimate source, and threatening suffering for not following. I'd point straight at them, and say, "You're full of crap. Put up logical evidence for your bull or sit down and shut up and let someone with a sane brain speak."

To think that something like that is proof takes a lot of desperation and logic bending, not to mention a LOT of selective quote mining. How you can actually believe what you typed even connects or proves anything is something even a 5 year old would question. In any sense, none of what you have stated would ever hold up in a court as evidence in anything other than a witch burning trial. I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

Science is the struggle to understand more about the universe and the universe that we live in, asking questions and finding answers that are results of testable and reproducible experimentation. Sometimes the answer isn't what one hopes for, and it contradicts everything. Yet, science is dependent on building up evidence and strengthening theories

Religion is the opposite in behavior, it is blind following of an assumption that is almost always so outrageous that in any other context it would be considered an extreme child's fairytale. Instead of taking new information or correcting misinformation by new data, religion demands that the mind be closed off, and that a statement be followed on faith no matter what the evidence against it. This blind faith is paramount to, in my opinion, delusions and living in a fantasy world.

In a nutshell

Science: New information: May prove previous work wrong, but it must be considered and accepted if the evidence is strong.

Religion: New information: Rejected, ignored, while ears are plugged up and screaming, "Lalalalala, I don't wanna hear, lalalalala"

Only an immature fool says that they know everything. The first step to intelligence is standing up no matter what, and saying, "I don't know, but I will try so that someday maybe someone will through my efforts."

Once again, this is just another sneaky attempt at, "I'll ask you about something religious, and then tell you why you should be my belief while ignoring anything you say, and holding fast to why you must join __insert random insane magical superstition here___!" It's the same crap as always, and those who think for themselves, rather than blindly believing what a 1500+ year old guy in a desert with delusions says, are going to point it out as such any time this tries to seep in.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

From my relationships with devout Christians, I'd say that religious people cannot rationally defend their beliefs. It's just something they feel -- that they know in their hearts.

Many Christians make the mistake of trying to defend their beliefs in the arena of rational argument. They resort to false logic and dubious evidence. They deny obvious scientific truths like Darwinist evolution, and insist on the literal truth of every passage in the Bible. If you point out inconsistencies, such as two different accounts of Judas's death in the New Testament, they do that "la-la-la" routine with their fingers in their ears.

When our son was in his late teens, the Holy Spirit came to him. He realized that Jesus is his savior. But he no longer tries to convert me or to defend his belief rationally. He realizes it is a feeling, a spirituality, that he can't defend with logic and evidence.

I know that such things, such spiritual feelings, exist. I know I love my wife and children, but I couldn't prove it rationally. I have not been personally visited by a feeling of religious belief, but I can see that others have had such experiences.

 

[imuseto]

Emoni, your way of thinking is the same with the other believers you know
keep saying, "we need the proof..!!"
but when we show them the proof, all they can do is just blabbering some nonsense

mr. RolandtheHeadless
if you're talking about the christians, it may be just like with what you just said
but we're talking about Islam now, our friend show you the truth very rationally, logically, and full of evidence.

 

[ZainOn]

I am Muslim , and for sure no thing is created by accidental event . It must be a power behind that , for example the rotations of planets in our solar system , every planet rotates in his orbit without any collision with other ,

 

[mohamed]

please all of my friends in here
please read the quran
world life is 2 short
lit's look for agood life an forever life
let's help each other to find where is the trust isalm or cristain or Jewish or Atheism
and don't be like this surah


And verily We gave unto Moses the Scripture and We caused a train of messengers to follow after him, and We gave unto Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs (of Allah's sovereignty), and We supported him with the Holy spirit. Is it ever so, that, when there cometh unto you a messenger (from Allah) with that which ye yourselves desire not, ye grow arrogant, and some ye disbelieve and some ye slay? (87

 

[imuseto]

ya akhee
read surah Al-Baqarah: verse 6-7

 

[mohamed]

thanxs imuseto

but we have to read surat alaraf from 163-166

 

[Emoni]

From my relationships with devout Christians, I'd say that religious people cannot rationally defend their beliefs. It's just something they feel -- that they know in their hearts.

Many Christians make the mistake of trying to defend their beliefs in the arena of rational argument. They resort to false logic and dubious evidence. They deny obvious scientific truths like Darwinist evolution, and insist on the literal truth of every passage in the Bible. If you point out inconsistencies, such as two different accounts of Judas's death in the New Testament, they do that "la-la-la" routine with their fingers in their ears.

Very good point. I see this behavior a LOT

I am Muslim , and for sure no thing is created by accidental event . It must be a power behind that , for example the rotations of planets in our solar system , every planet rotates in his orbit without any collision with other ,

This right here symbolizes the void of logic and extreme level of simple ignorance behind this entire thread. I walked around in my room literally laughing to myself after reading this. This just backed up what Roland and many of us have said for sometime.

For those wondering why I'm saying this, please note two things that will give you a hint as to the reason.

1) Asteroid belts.
2) Planets tend not to be planets after they collide.
3) Theories for the existence of the moon

It's the same old, I don't understand it, therefore I'll play the "God did it" card.

Emoni, your way of thinking is the same with the other believers you know
keep saying, "we need the proof..!!"

What? My way of thinking is totally the opposite of religious believers. What on earth are you talking about. The only thing you got right is me pointing out the need for proof.

but when we show them the proof, all they can do is just blabbering some nonsense

Rambling about skin pain and oxygen deprivation is proof? Really? Are you insane or just delusional. Both?

mr. RolandtheHeadless
if you're talking about the christians, it may be just like with what you just said
but we're talking about Islam now, our friend show you the truth very rationally, logically, and full of evidence.

No religion is rational and logical. You're demanding people believe your way, with no logical or verifiable scientific evidence via threats of eternal suffering and demands of compliance. Oh, and by the way, every other religious zealot from the other religions says your wrong and their "psuedo-evidence" is correct and in their favor. Maybe you should go tell them they are wrong and you can yell at them till the end of time screaming, "lalalala" when they talk, and then killing eachother after you all get frustrated.

Oh wait! That's already happening. Silly me.

All this thread is, is some religious nut knocking at the forum door ranting illogical claims of an invisible super daddy in the sky, while they have a "God-gasm" spewing ignorance all over the place that those with an education always have to wipe up.

These threads show up every single month. This is a discussion, like slamming my head against a wall is getting a haircut.

 

[Haruspex]

All this thread is, is some religious nut knocking at the forum door ranting illogical claims of an invisible super daddy in the sky, while they have a "God-gasm" spewing ignorance all over the place that those with an education always have to wipe up.

Unsurprisingly, we have reached consensus there.

 

[mohamed]

You gonna became make me insane after what we come to you with evidence and you Does not believe it and say this is not enough Why do you don't want to open your heart and your mind, think correct thinking please. and see by the eyes of your heart. if you think that Arabs are behind you,do not hurry and say that about islam 2 there is us muslim and canda and italy england and all of word islam did not mean only arab ,maybe our leader's or your leader want that but they can't stop islam cuz he good . forget and look yourselves We are interested in your matter and the world around us we are complying with the words of our prophet and this Move us to think you have come to you with Prove mental and material no one can rejected only Who is did not searching for the truth and mislead the people . and there is evidence of more flies and stages of birth, eye, intestines and all this just to make sure of the sincerity of the quran book and he is the real work of god bring me something similar from any other book am waiting don't say words without mean just reply .
I want to say something why I am doing all this do I interested to harassing you no i swear by the God I hope the best for all people so I speak with you with attention and respect, and the in fact if that I am unwanted I can stop talk in this forum and enter this site again

 

[Emoni]

1) All this thread was, was another religious attempt to push your beliefs. It wasn't about polling the beliefs of the members and understanding why. That became apparent very quickly, but most of us knew that the second they saw the first post anyway.

2) There has been no evidence or proof. Please learn what the words evidence and proof actually mean.

3) Throwing a hissy-fit because you didn't get what you wanted is exceptionally child-like. If you want to post, do. If you do not want to, don't. Just because people don't agree with you and attack your arguments isn't a reason to start screaming. That's life. I hate to break this to you, but 99.99999% of the world won't agree with you on everything.

4) Try being more honest and direct next time you post, if you do, and you'll avoid a lot of problems. Oh, and learn what the scientific method is and what is actually considered legitimate evidence.

5) Myself, as well as many posters here, from non-religious atheists, devout Buddhists, and countless others, do not give a damn about your God. Get over it, and move on. The world would be a better place if you learned to focus on yourself, rather than pick on others for not believing the way you do. Once again, I never said I intend to change your beliefs, you can believe whatever you want, but if you are going to start preaching, expect us to shoot down all the illogical insane religious junk that comes out.

 

[mohamed]

there is man astray in the desert found a pool of bad water and if he did not drink he will die so he drinking and drinking even the taste of corruption is go not do you think if you give him agood water do think what are he gonna say he will say no this is not good i want pool of the water

Emoni

grow up and do not say words without mean or Interest we are in the medial of real serious discussion

 

[Emoni]

I'm starting to think I've been talking to a schizophrenic forum troll the entire time.

I choose my words very carefully Momo, I may misspell words and hit the post button to soon, but everything I said is quite serious. You can believe whatever you want, but if you are going to try to preach endlessly unethically disguised as an inquiry into the beliefs of this forum's members, then you can expect the reaction you have received.

Believe what you want, but don't ever try to force it illogically on others without evidence, proof, or reason. Most people don't believe the way you do, accept it, and grow up. This is part of life, and sometimes it really seems to be one of the most difficult concepts for people to grasp; that people aren't who you want them to be.

Just cause YOU want to ramble about invisible people in the sky, doesn't mean others want to. If you keep harassing them endlessly, eventually they are simply going to tell you to shut the bleep up, and go away.

There is telling people your opinions and thoughts, there is answering people's questions, but then there is forcing your opinion down other people's throats. The latter is not acceptable to me, nor most people here. If your intention is such, then I think I speak for many people on this forum when I say, go away.

If you want to have a conversation, then by all means, stay. Assuming you do want conversation, and by conversation I mean a TWO-WAY dialogue where both sides listen and actually respond sensibly.

 

[Haruspex]

grow up and do not say words without mean or Interest we are in the medial of real serious discussion

No we're not. Your presence in itself is capable of negating anything serious.

You lack the intellectual capacity to understand the basis on which science operates, as it was pointed out by Emoni. In addition, your posts make little sense. Without adequate communications, you will not be able to have an argument here, let alone win one. Your inability to understand concepts employed in argumentation mean that you will either be unable to respond to other users or that you will ignore the widely accepted rules of reasoning. Well, you actually are ignoring it. Also, out of curiosity, could you please name a secular field that you are well-versed in? One that involves reasoning.

 

[Emoni]

To the point and better said than I can do Derfel. Sums up things pretty much I guess.

I honestly don't expect a reply about any field he would be in, I actually expect he is quite young still, which is why I have "generally" been trying to be nice and work him through the reasoning (or lack of reasoning) behind things that have been said. Although of course that has been in vain as usual.