U.S. Forces in Japan: time to say good-bye?

[KirinMan]

The Army barracks there as well as here in Oklahoma, are like living in a public housing project. When I was in Okinawa, our barracks were like prison cells, without the bars.

And that makes it substandard? It's the military. Cripes, maybe it is time for them to leave if they can"t handle living in private rooms.

And according to the Veterans Administration, they're still contaminated with asbestos.

Depends on the buildings I think, the overwhelming majority of the barracks here have been built within the past 20 years or so. There maybe some offices and older structures left but housing?

If you have a website of further information could you please put it here? Thanks.

 

[Arc Light]

And that makes it substandard? It's the military. Cripes, maybe it is time for them to leave if they can"t handle living in private rooms.
Depends on the buildings I think, the overwhelming majority of the barracks here have been built within the past 20 years or so. There mayb e some offices and older structures left but housing? If you have a website of further information could you please put it here? Thanks.

I'm not sure how I should take your tone, so I'll say this: being in the military does not mean that soldiers should be subjected to materials that could harm them for the rest of their life. I lived in better buildings when I was on the skids a few years back. My own father has asbestosis resulting from asbestos used in Navy ships while he was a nuke tech for the Navy, and that was back in the early 80's. ANd myself, both of my sisters and my mother were all exposed to what he brought home from work. So what you're saying is that they just learn to deal with the lead in the water pipes, the asbestos in the building materials, and be good little soldiers and do what they're told...you'll be coughing up blood, have difficulty sleeping, have numerous bouts with pneumonia and cancer, but the VA will take good care of you. And sorry about that little sarin gas thing from the first Gulf war...oops, our bad.

http://www.house.gov/hobson/bushml.htm
http://pom-ima.monterey.army.mil/sites/directorates/dpw/inc/asbestos.pdf
http://www.ellsworth.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-070425-043.doc
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=News&id=1681317
http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2003/07/03/base/
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/jan2005/2005-01-03-04.asp
http://www.ellsworth.af.mil/ellsworthhousing.asp
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/expectmore/detail/10000066.2002.html

There's this website, called "Google," at www.google.com, and you type things into the text box and click on "go" and it shows you all different kinds of stuff pertaining to your search. It's really neat. Try it sometime.

 

[KirinMan]

....... being in the military does not mean that soldiers should be subjected to materials that could harm them for the rest of their life. I lived in better buildings when I was on the skids a few years back. My own father has asbestosis resulting from asbestos used in Navy ships while he was a nuke tech for the Navy, and that was back in the early 80's. ANd myself, both of my sisters and my mother were all exposed to what he brought home from work. So what you're saying is that they just learn to deal with the lead in the water pipes, the asbestos in the building materials, and be good little soldiers and do what they're told...you'll be coughing up blood, have difficulty sleeping, have numerous bouts with pneumonia and cancer, but the VA will take good care of you. And sorry about that little sarin gas thing from the first Gulf war...oops, our bad.

You know in all sincerity I am sorry that you and your family had to deal with issues such as this, you have my sympathy.

Now then in reply to the rest, I was asking you about here in Okinawa and what you know about the situations here. I know for a fact the the Marine, Army and AirForce enlisted and family housing have been either rebuilt or are in the process of it now.

I lived in the open squadbays and know very well what the housing situation was, plus the housing that is here now has none of the asbestos issues that you are claiming. Once again I repeat here I am sorry for your family and the issues you dealt with but what does that have to do with the question I asked you?

There's this website, called "Google," at www.google.com, and you type things into the text box and click on "go" and it shows you all different kinds of stuff pertaining to your search. It's really neat. Try it sometime

Sarcasm duly noted, oh and btw what do these links have to do with housing here in Okinawa? The current housing for the military here can not compare to what it was like. They have it great and on that there is no argument. Plus the issues that you raise here about asbestos, from what I understand, have NOTHING to do with the housing NOW.

Hence my question if you could provide information about HERE not every other place on the planet.

Lastly I know how to take your tone. Next time try asking for clarification instead of making assumptions about what someone is asking, particularly after writing;

I'm not sure how I should take your tone

 

[SouthernBelle82]

I think the US should leave country's like Japan especially since we haven't been at war or "war" with them in so many years and they're now more so allies than enemies and everything. I wouldn't mind if there were some of the military left (like maybe a very small handful of bases) and an embassy but I just don't see what the purpose is to have all these military bases there.

 

[KirinMan]

I think the US should leave country's like Japan especially since we haven't been at war or "war" with them in so many years and they're now more so allies than enemies and everything. I wouldn't mind if there were some of the military left (like maybe a very small handful of bases) and an embassy but I just don't see what the purpose is to have all these military bases there.

Ah SouthernBelle it would be nice but there are so many other issues involved particularly concerning China, Taiwan and North Korea.

The Us presence here has also allowed Japan to develop into the country that it is today.

What bases would you leave and what bases would you suggest they shut?

 

[Arc Light]

Because it's not just here, or there, it's military-wide. And I ain't about to go through 300 pages of web links to get your answer. I KNOW for a fact that there were buildings on Camp Hansen that do contain lead-based paint and asbestos in the building materials. Whether or not they have been torn down or still in use, I don't know. But the HQ for 9th ESB was moved into a new building back in 1992 due to unsafe building conditions from lead paint and asbestos, only to move into a new building with the same problems.

So now I assume you can speak for ALL servicemembers living on Okinawa are in great housing? So all of the buildings that were there in 1992-93 have all been torn down and replaced by newer, safer buildings? It's odd, because during my VA Disability briefing, they asked if I had been stationed there in the last ten years, which I have not. And even stranger, is that there are folks here who just returned from Okinawa and dispute your claim that housing is all hunky-dory there. I believe that the Marines/Navy budget is about the size of the Army's (or close, but I'm guessing), and the last time I checked, single-servicemember housing isn't a priority, at least not in the last ten years.

So, prove to me that there are new buildings there, and that the old ones have been torn down. Oh wait...you said "in the process of" which means it hasn't been done yet. So you're saying that half a battalion of feild artillery Marines who were stationed at either Schwab or Hansen are all lying about there living conditions?

The photo in Google Earth is too blurry, but I can see Camp Hansen and the town of Kin enough to say that it doesn't look much different than what it did back then. I can see where there may have been old houses/buildings on Kadena AFB that could have been razed, but I know the pace at which the government works, and I do not buy for a minute that the majority of all military housing there has been cleaned or replaced with safer housing. Neither the government nor it's contractors move that fast, especially when ther was all that talk about a drawdown of US Forces there in the last few years.

I want to see picture proof. I lived in Quonset huts too, but I dare say that barracks life was a hotel in comparison. Not even close, even to this day. I'll take a metal roof, pot-belly stove and a single window AC unit, with bunks and wall lockers anyday of the week over this mold-infested dump I'm in now.

My old barracks on Hansen was Building 2445 ( I think...). I'll bet you it's still there and still in use, and that barracks was built in the 70's.

Now my coffee's cold...

 

[SouthernBelle82]

Well I would keep bases that are closest to civilian life but in reality I would make that be the decision of the leader of Japan (does Japan call them a prime minister?) since they know their military strengths and all.

Ah SouthernBelle it would be nice but there are so many other issues involved particularly concerning China, Taiwan and North Korea.
The Us presence here has also allowed Japan to develop into the country that it is today.
What bases would you leave and what bases would you suggest they shut?

I also wanted to say I know my answer sounds like a cop-out to the question but that's just my answer. I'm not some military expert and won't pretend to be.

 

[KirinMan]

I want to see picture proof.

"I ain't about to go through 300 pages of web links to get your answer."
Have a good night.

Compared to back in the early to mid 80's, they have it great and there isn't anything you can say or "prove" to me otherwise.

I've been in the "old" and the "new" it's day and night. I was here in the Marines when you were in Elementary School or maybe Junior High School, and compared to what my Uncle's and cousins had back in the 1950's, 60's and 70's, from the stories I heard them tell, I had it better than they did.

So please don't start preaching to me about "sub-standard", it just isnt going to cut it with me. I would have taken the "new" vintage 1990's anytime any day.

Semper Fi.

 

[KirinMan]

Well I would keep bases that are closest to civilian life but in reality I would make that be the decision of the leader of Japan (does Japan call them a prime minister?) since they know their military strengths and all.
I also wanted to say I know my answer sounds like a cop-out to the question but that's just my answer. I'm not some military expert and won't pretend to be.

No actually it doesnt sound like a cop out, and I appreciate your putting your thoughts and opinions here. Yes here in Japan the leader is called the Prime Minister and I am pretty sure he knows what the strengths and weaknesses of this country are.

It is a good thing to have your opinions about topics like this, it helps to broaden one's horizon's and together we learn more aobut the world that we live in. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Arc Light]

"I ain't about to go through 300 pages of web links to get your answer."
Have a good night.
Compared to back in the early to mid 80's, they have it great and there isn't anything you can say or "prove" to me otherwise.
I've been in the "old" and the "new" it's day and night. I was here in the Marines when you were in Elementary School or maybe Junior High School, and compared to what my Uncle's and cousins had back in the 1950's, 60's and 70's, from the stories I heard them tell, I had it better than they did.
So please don't start preaching to me about "sub-standard", it just isnt going to cut it with me. I would have taken the "new" vintage 1990's anytime any day.
Semper Fi.

Whatever you say, God. Your'e always right. Your blindness and arrogance are duly noted. Typical.

I was here in the Marines when you were in Elementary School or maybe Junior High School,

Yeah, sure you were...and I'm not fixing to retire either.

 

[KirinMan]

Your'e always right

And dont you ever forget it ok....Top picture old barracks....bottom picture new barracks built and paid for with Japanese tax money. No problems with the use of asbestos in those.
Camp Hansen....

The older building is similar to all the barracks formerly used by Marines on Okinawa and the "new" building is the current barracks type building used by Marines in Okinawa.

Plus in the bottom picture you will see one of the older style barracks, now mostly used for offices.

Yeah, sure you were...

Glad to see that you understand.

 

[Arc Light]

Yup...that's the ones...the ones in that bottom pic. The same ones with asbestos in the linoleum floor tiles and ceiling tiles! Wow! The memories! Did they ever put carpet in? They were talking about it when I was barracks NCO, but I never heard about whether it happened or not. Us old farts preferred having the floors that had to be waxed and buffed.

What you hotlinked to in the first picture is what is similar to our line companies used for their company offices. I figured they used to be barracks, they sure smelled like it.

What surprises me is that you even bothered to post a reply, since oyu had already predetermined that you are right regardless, that the goverment is being scammed out of millions over false claims of asbestos contamination. That's what your saying, right? That all federal buildings built within the last 20 years or so are perfectly safe and that no one in the military today should be filing a VA disability claim for it...right? Hmmm...interesting statement you make there.

Sounds like you need to be calling some federal office, because you obviously have a secret that no one else knows about! I mean, yeah, you used pictures from other websites that aren't yours, but that doesn't prove your point. That bottom pic is exactly what we had.

But since your profile says that you've been living in Okinawa or Japan for 15 years, something isn't adding up. If you're there now, surely you would have access to get your own pictures of your acclaimed "new" buildings, instead of simply hotlinking to another site's pictures. I mean, if you even were in the Marines and decided to stay in Okinawa and got out, you still should have some form of access to military bases for purposes of healthcare and whatnot. Unless that is, you got busted for drugs and were booted out and decided to stay, or, you're just plain lying.

And judging by how defensive you're getting, one begins to wonder.

 

[KirinMan]

But since your profile says that you've been living in Okinawa or Japan for 15 years, something isn't adding up. If you're there now, surely you would have access to get your own pictures of your acclaimed "new" buildings, instead of simply hotlinking to another site's pictures. I mean, if you even were in the Marines and decided to stay in Okinawa and got out, you still should have some form of access to military bases for purposes of healthcare and whatnot. Unless that is, you got busted for drugs and were booted out and decided to stay, or, you're just plain lying.
And judging by how defensive you're getting, one begins to wonder

Dude you need to take a serious look in the mirror if you think I am being defensive. You my friend making quite a few wild judgements assumptions and insinuations here as well.

btw this is all off topic here and to prevent it from going any further I am going to let you know that unless you want to make a further comment about whether or not the US military needs to stay here in Japan I wont be commenting to your rather problematic posts.

Oh and back on topic I believe the military should stay but needs to be reorganized and unused land should be returned to Japan.

 

[EmperorHirohito]

In order to get this topic back ON-TOPIC, I have a question.

With North Korea still trying to develop a nuclear program, and even nuclear weapons, and still being regarded as an unstable political regime, would Japan feel safe if ALL U.S forces were pulled out off the bases thus opening up Japan to possible attack at some point in the future, even nuclear attack?

I think the answer would be a resounding NO.

 

[Arc Light]

Well, in relation to that, about a year or so ago, there was news about something like a drawback in the number of troops in Japan, and either Japan was paying for them to go, or the US was paying for them to go...whatever happened to that?

 

[Sukotto]

With North Korea still trying to develop a nuclear program, and even nuclear weapons, and still being regarded as an unstable political regime, would Japan feel safe if ALL U.S forces were pulled out off the bases thus opening up Japan to possible attack at some point in the future, even nuclear attack?

Would NKorea still try to develop nuclear WEAPONS,
if the US had not invaded Iraq which was not involved in any attack on the US and did NOT have nuclear weapons?

Well, in relation to that, about a year or so ago, there was news about something like a drawback in the number of troops in Japan, and either Japan was paying for them to go, or the US was paying for them to go...whatever happened to that?

I think there were some in the US that wanted Japan to pay for the redeployment and the building of a new US base to replace Utenma air field at Okinawa which is supposed to have been gone by now. The agreement was to remove the base after 7 years.
Is this the same thing?

 

[hanachan]

In my opinion,
as far as North Korea is being a dangerous country for the US, the US Force stays in Japan.
The US Force's role is also to protect their own country, not only Japan.
Japan is the first defense line against North Korean attack.
For this reason, the US Force won't leave Japan, even if Japanese people beg them to go. Of course I know the majority of Japanese never say so.

I think that Japan cannot protect by herself. When it comes, we don't know whether the US will act as Japan expects. But most of Japanese believe the US Force to do it, or try to believe that.
The US is the only one nation which declares that the attack against Japan is the same as the attack against the US, it moved us not a little and that is the one we believe.

 

[caster51]

I think US forces should leave OKinawa...

 

[SouthernBelle82]

I don't think any country should police any other country. That's just wrong to do so and goes against that nation's soverignty in my opinion. It depends on Japan and the military. Do they have mandatory service? I'm not sure. Some country's put great pride, tradition and honor in military service so I guess it just depends. I'm against mandatory service because you'd never know when another country does a George W Bush and invades another country like Irak. If here in the U.S. we still had a draft (the guy who ended the draft is now running for president, look up Mike Gravel) Bush would already be invading Iran and Syria which is scary because they haven't done anything.

Having been a military brat and Dad was in the Air Force until the major shutdown of bases was in the 70s when Vietnam was pretty much over. Whether they should leave and shut down to save American Dollars $$ may be important for a few of us, in the long run, It is a needed security to have our Advanced bases in case of a major crisis. As the USA are the Policemen of the World, we tend to be in everyone's back yard. Yes we can be mis-behave a little or a whole lot too while in the position. We are not the Major power over any country. The game field has even out a little. Can Japan haf=ve its own Military force ready? how many japanese (men and women ) would join the military (JASDF) to protect their country? If the Peace Constitution can be revisioned and other Asian countries NOT PANIC about Japan will be come a militaristic WARMONGER like it was in the mid 30-40s. WE are always looking over our shoulders of what the others are doingin thier backyard.
BTW,, Heisei tenno BANZAI !!
Ichi-KAZE

Oh good I'm glad it didn't seem like a cop-out. I do have members in my family past and present who have served in the military but I don't know much about military issues. My grandfather (rip) used to be in the navy (never saw war luckily) and he used to tell me stories of his time in the navy but it was just on his experiences so that's all I know. I thought they were probably called a Prime Minister since other Asian country's I know of also call their leader's PM. Thanks for welcoming my comments even though on issues of the military I'm not that smart on it. :relief:

No actually it doesnt sound like a cop out, and I appreciate your putting your thoughts and opinions here. Yes here in Japan the leader is called the Prime Minister and I am pretty sure he knows what the strengths and weaknesses of this country are.
It is a good thing to have your opinions about topics like this, it helps to broaden one's horizon's and together we learn more aobut the world that we live in. Thanks for sharing.

I could live with your plan Obeika. Definietley reorganize the US military and return unused land to Japan. I'm sure they could use it to build places or farming or something like that more useful than it being unused and the grass growing.

Dude you need to take a serious look in the mirror if you think I am being defensive. You my friend making quite a few wild judgements assumptions and insinuations here as well.
btw this is all off topic here and to prevent it from going any further I am going to let you know that unless you want to make a further comment about whether or not the US military needs to stay here in Japan I wont be commenting to your rather problematic posts.
Oh and back on topic I believe the military should stay but needs to be reorganized and unused land should be returned to Japan.

 

[SouthernBelle82]

No they wouldn't have. Also Bush ignored Mr. Il and didn't keep up relations unlike with the Clinton administration. Same thing with Iran and they wouldn't be talking about it and threatning (they're years away however). If someone was supposed to remove a base seven years ago why haven't the Japanese government enforced that?

Would NKorea still try to develop nuclear WEAPONS,
if the US had not invaded Iraq which was not involved in any attack on the US and did NOT have nuclear weapons?


I think there were some in the US that wanted Japan to pay for the redeployment and the building of a new US base to replace Utenma air field at Okinawa which is supposed to have been gone by now. The agreement was to remove the base after 7 years.
Is this the same thing?

 

[KirinMan]

I don't think any country should police any other country.

I agree with you here, and just to share with you the US Forces, at least here in Japan, are not involved in any police like work similar to the "other" two places in the world that currently come to mind.

If someone was supposed to remove a base seven years ago why haven't the Japanese government enforced that?

That is a huge complicated issue, because the US while being agreeable to returning the base in question do not want to give it back until it has similar use facilities somewhere else in country or near enough by that it could respond in a timely manner if anything arose in the region.

 

[Sukotto]

If someone was supposed to remove a base seven years ago why haven't the Japanese government enforced that?

Actually, it was only a few years ago the base was supposed to be gone.
They had agreed 7 years prior to that, that within 7 years the base would be gone.

Okinawans have formed human chains around the entire base a couple times in protest.
I found this site if you want more info:
Futenma-Henoko Action Network
http://www.fhan.org/index.html

 

[Kujiro]

Well my opinion is that todays world isn't a very good place to live ...
Since Japan will develop its own army it will need only weapons not soldiers .
Regarding who are Japan's neighbors I think it would be better if the Americans remain there. ( I've seen maps of Okinawa showing those damn bases and airfields and everything else ...)
But someone must protect it from North Korea and China .
That's the reality ...kashii:

 

[KirinMan]

Well my opinion is that todays world isn't a very good place to live ...
Since Japan will develop its own army it will need only weapons not soldiers .
Regarding who are Japan's neighbors I think it would be better if the Americans remain there. ( I've seen maps of Okinawa showing those damn bases and airfields and everything else ...)
But someone must protect it from North Korea and China .
That's the reality ...kashii:

I agree the world situation is not so great and that in reality there arent too many options available at this time but keeping such a large majority of them here in Okinawa is over-kill.

The mainland of Japan should take a larger percentage of the bases and give Okinawa some relief, but it wont, so we're stuck with them.

 

[caster51]

The mainland of Japan should take a larger percentage of the bases and give Okinawa some relief, but it wont, so we're stuck with them.

therefore,I think U.S should get out voluntary.
then Japan will change article 9 with option of A-bomd.