U.S. Forces in Japan: time to say good-bye?

[KirinMan]

therefore,I think U.S should get out voluntary.
then Japan will change article 9 with option of A-bomd.

Yeah right, and then wait and watch as the Japan we now know today disappears from the face of the earth thanks to it's neighbors to the west.

Caster you complain about Hiroshima and Nagasaki all the time however you want Japan to have the same WMD's. Something just doesnt quite make sense here.

 

[caster51]

Caster you complain about Hiroshima and Nagasaki all the time however you want Japan to have the same WMD's. Something just doesnt quite make sense here.

Nope.it is different story that Japan has a Abomd and complainig about Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
one is priblem of protecting.
the other is who doropped a- bomd there practically

 

[KirinMan]

Nope.it is different story that Japan has a Abomd and complainig about Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Yet they are interlinked, for the only country in the world that has suffered the effects of an atomic bombing, to want to build and develop the same weapons would be to me hypocritical.

 

[caster51]

for the only country in the world that has suffered the effects of an atomic bombing, to want to build and develop the same weapons would be to me hypocritical.

why?

that is why Japan shold have it to protect
Every country has a right to have A-bomd

for the only country in the world that has dropped the effects of an atomic bombing, to want to keep and develop more the same weapons would be to me hypocritical

 

[frostyg02uk]

Hmm ive tried to stay away from this post but its pulled me in. OK to start i dont think any country should have to "put" up with any other nations militery especially one that yearly brings disgrace with its antics such as a few bad ens raping local women and then disapearing back to the US or germany. I do understand that america has protected Japan and most definity helped alot with the economic booms but at the same time they havnt helped with neighbouring countries disliking Japan more because they are seen as hiding behind america and when things like Iraq come you have Bush saying send troops to help us in Iraq or we will pull out of Japan. what kind of F-ing blackmail is that? send troops to iraq a war no one agreed with making the countries envolved terrorist targets or we pull out and let china roll over you. If i think of germany winning the war and occupying England now i think myself as well as many, many others would still be trying to get independence now and of course its not the same but with the US being there and being depended on for protection i dont see Japan as free.

Of course to every coin there is 2 sides and when ever a country lets go of another they have to think of life without big brother. Lets talk IFs and say America are not there does it mean Japan need A bombs? hmm Ok for one america would NEVER allow it, like N korea. But we are talking IFs...then i believe they might need it. that would be a shame, as Japan dont need an army now they are one of the greatest peace promotors and probably the closest to total pafasism (spelling?) something close to my worldly ideal. I think todays world is controlled by the market...could China afford a war with Japan now? as the aggressor, no i dont think so.

To keep up with the latest topic on this thread ill also say that while Japan shouldnt get an A bomb just because they want one i do find the Us hypocritical to say who can and cant have an A bomb considering they are the only ones who have ever actually used one. I believe on one hand that the A bomb is probably the best invention made for peace, considering the amount of wars stopped due to fears of a nuking war. While trying to get Korea to stop their nuclear reactors is probably the only sane thing to do i also dislike how the Us try to police the world considering that when the world askes them not to do something they just ignore it anyway. (Iraq and NATO anyone?) While a agree with castor in ways i also agree with Obeika that Japan shouldnt produce any WMD's ...but probably for other reasons.

Its hard to listen to americans reason when they bomb so many.

 

[Sukotto]

I do understand that america has .... most definity helped alot with the economic booms but at the same time they havnt helped with neighbouring countries disliking Japan more because they are seen as hiding behind america and when things like Iraq come you have Bush saying send troops to help us in Iraq or we will pull out of Japan. what kind of F-ing blackmail is that? send troops to iraq a war no one agreed with making the countries envolved terrorist targets or we pull out

What?
You mean that "coalition of the willing"
that Donald Rumsfeld bragged about;
those "60 countries" we saw in said coalition scrolling across the bottom of
our screens during tv news programs as the bombs began to fall,
you're trying to tell me those governments weren't listening to their own people? :bikkuri: (sarcasm)

(the same goes for the International Criminal Court,
blackmailing countries into not endorsing it or to vote for the
exceptions for US troops (yeah, right, everyone knows who really fears that, !@#$ing bast--ds))

 

[frostyg02uk]

Hmm im not sure what you mean haha. If you mean governments not listening to their people then you can look at your country's best friend the UK. we didnt want anything to do with the war only tony blair did (proabbly because we owed america money from WW2)
but i dont think i should talk about that too much on this forum. But if you im happy to discuss other things with you ;oD

 

[Glenski]

caster,
You'd better talk to your fellow citizens (if indeed you are Japanese) about the so-called right for any country to have nuclear weapons. Go ahead and make a speech on that in the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki next week and see how long you last.

And, by the way, "protecting" one's country by a buildup of nuclear weapons is pretty much what the Cold War was all about, or are you too young to realize that?

frosty,
Yeah, the US military gets a bad rap from publicized "antics" of its juvenile-minded soldiers. Rape, robbery, assault. Such zany antics, eh? On the other hand, less sarcastic, look at it this way. There is a web site put up by people in Okinawa that tries to show huge numbers of crimes committed by the US military, so that people will force it to leave. Sorry, but if you examine the percentages of US military personnel that commit every one of those crimes, and compare it to the percentage of Japanese there, you get a higher figure for the locals than the military. The US "antics" get more press, and that is why people get upset.

Sukotto wrote:

Would NKorea still try to develop nuclear WEAPONS,
if the US had not invaded Iraq which was not involved in any attack on the US and did NOT have nuclear weapons?

Simple answer... yes. Il is crazy and power-mad.

 

[pipokun]

Sorry, but if you examine the percentages of US military personnel that commit every one of those crimes, and compare it to the percentage of Japanese there, you get a higher figure for the locals than the military. The US "antics" get more press, and that is why people get upset.

It is a bit fairer when you compare crimes by Japanese soldiers outside Japan or in Okinawa.

 

[Glenski]

It is a bit fairer when you compare crimes by Japanese soldiers outside Japan or in Okinawa.

Are you saying Japanese soldiers commit fewer crimes (on a percentage basis) than Okinawa locals?

 

[pipokun]

Sorry for my English.
I just wanted to say...
For a bit fair argument, please compare crimes by the US force with the ones by the Japanese Self Defence Force in Okinawa or outside their country.
Or just check how many civilians are jailed in both countries.

I am so scared if Japanese soldiers would gang-rape a girl in your country.

 

[Eugeniu]

I don't even know what to vote.

 

[Sukotto]

Sukotto wrote:

Would NKorea still try to develop nuclear WEAPONS,
if the US had not invaded Iraq which was not involved in any attack on the US and did NOT have nuclear weapons?

Simple answer... yes. Il is crazy and power-mad.

I don't necessarily agree.

What about the Sunshine Policy between N&S Korea?
What about N&S making peace all by themselves including cultural & sports
exchanges, increased trade, family visits for the first time in decades, etc...
before the Bush administration spoke these words together in public "axis of evil" and "North Korea" in the same sentence?

I believe South Koreans disagree.


Kim Jong Il is always called "crazy". Then they point to his vast movie collection, his elevator shoes, and crazy wild wickedly rad hair-do.
Woop-d. Seems like your average middle-aged guy with aging issues to me.
Or like any other national leader for that matter...
On second thought, maybe he is crazy.

 

[Calchas]

The cold war is over. I think our soldiers should be pulled out of Japan as it can now afford to protect it's own borders.

I am less concerned about local issues (crime) then I am about the cost of keeping our forces in Japan and where they might be put to better use.

 

[centrajapan]

USA should leave Japan and Okinawa ASAP and also Iraq.

 

[w1ngzer0]

Should USA leave? no. What do you think China,NK,SK, and the rest of asia would do to Japan once we leave? A whole lota bad things.

My roomate made a good example of this. USA should be doing business with canada and south america. They are closer and why would you make enemies with your neighbors. That's all you see in the news is illegals comming into america. Next to iraq and bush being stupid.

Anyway, Japan and europe is cool and all but we could do business with places a lot closer and save major $$$.

 

[Pavel123]

I think that the USA army should leave Japan because it reduces stress, and it reduces complaints about low pay.

 

[centrajapan]

US can still be an ally to Japan. If US must absolutely protect Japan they can do that from US. You don't see American bases all over Europe do you? Yet most western European countries are member of NATO. The reason why US wants bases is because of their own geo political interests.

 

[Sukotto]

US can still be an ally to Japan. If US must absolutely protect Japan they can do that from US. You don't see American bases all over Europe do you? Yet most western European countries are member of NATO. The reason why US wants bases is because of their own geo political interests.

I'm willing to bet the US still does have bases throughout Europe, even though the cold war is over - which was also the very reason for the existence of NATO. In the 90s there were some fighter jet pilots playing hot shot in Italy (or were they training? i do not remember) and tried flying under some gondola cars. The plane snapped the wires and killed those in the car.

There are still bases in Germany for sure. I know people who were stationed there or flew in and out of there on the way to from Iraq.
Still, I've heard stories of some people wondering what they were guarding in West Germany after the fall of the Soviet Union and Soviet troops had gone home.

We only really hear about the bases if there is some sort of tragedy or crime that occurs connected with the bases. It might surprise you to hear the US has over 700 known/admitted military bases and installations in over 130 different countries. (according to Chalmers Johnson in his "Sorrows of Empire")


Closing down those bases does not mean the countries or peoples have to be enemies. How would you feel if there was a military base of another country on the outskirts of town, or even right in the heart of it, with hundreds or thousands of foreigners who do not speak your language, understand your culture, nor even care to?

 

[centrajapan]

I'm willing to bet the US still does have bases throughout Europe

I think there are some US bases in Germany and not so many other places in Europe. Germany is cutting down on US millitary presence, I think its about the same in Japan. Hopefully they will be opening new bases in Iraq so that they can go there too.

 

[dark_secrester]

I voted that it yes should leave. However, I think it should leave when North Korea stops testing stuff.

 

[GodEmperorLeto]

I voted that it yes should leave. However, I think it should leave when North Korea stops testing stuff.

Aha! Yes, this I agree with.

However, I can't help but consider the current controversy over Japanese military strength and the whole thing with the old (and new) Prime Minister. Many nations wagged their fingers at Japan when they didn't commit troops to Iraq in 1991, ignoring the fact that in their constitution (which the U.S. wrote) it says they formally renounce war.

The committal of troops to Afghanistan has raised a lot of tension, both at home politically, and abroad in Korea, China, and Taiwan, especially because the Japanese supposedly renounced war. They essentially turned to the United States in order for them to have military protection. Should something happen, American troops are to be committed to defending Japanese soil against the first wave of enemy soldiers (whomever they might be).

Whatever happens, in my opinion, the fence-sitting must stop. If the U.S. maintains a military presence, it should be because the Japanese still renounce war, and the rest of the world should respect that. If they feel that it is time to rebuild their strength, the U.S. should reduce their presence in Okinawa.

 

[Sukotto]

I think there are some US bases in Germany and not so many other places in Europe. Germany is cutting down on US millitary presence, I think its about the same in Japan. Hopefully they will be opening new bases in Iraq so that they can go there too.

The US is actually building 14 permanent military bases in Iraq.
Some of the democratic party in the us congress repeatedly tried to pass some laws forbidding permanent US bases in Iraq, but they all failed.
THAT was the real "mission accomplished". Successfully getting INTO Iraq. The military-industrial-congressional complex needs its nutrients of used weapons and an endless list of potential threats (boogie-men) in order to keep on going.

The bases remain in Japan, 75% of which are at Okinawa, not because NKorea wants to take over the world, or even that portion of it, but for the sheer maintenance of the military-industrial-congressional complex.

If the US was not in that part of the world would N&S Korea fight?
At this point in history I do not believe they would.
Nor do I believe NKorea would try to attack Japan.
What would they have to gain?
Dictators are always paranoid, and with the US attacking a country (Iraq) which posed no threat to it or even to its neighbors (Iran, nor Kuwait feared Iraq at the time of invasion), nor even had any nukes or other such WMDs, is it any wonder NKorea would try to at least make it look like they were creating a deterant?

Why would NKorea want to attack Japan again?

 

[GodEmperorLeto]

Sukotto, please, if you can't discuss something without rubbing your partisan agenda in everybody's face, then SHUT THE HECK UP. This is about Japan. Not about Iraq, or how much you hate Bush, or how you can't wait for Hillary to become president for a 3rd term. Check your baggage at the door, or go post on moveon.org.

Now, as for the relevant stuff you had to say:

If the US was not in that part of the world would N&S Korea fight?
At this point in history I do not believe they would.
Nor do I believe NKorea would try to attack Japan.
What would they have to gain?
Dictators are always paranoid, and with the US attacking a country (Iraq) which posed no threat to it or even to its neighbors (Iran, nor Kuwait feared Iraq at the time of invasion), nor even had any nukes or other such WMDs, is it any wonder NKorea would try to at least make it look like they were creating a deterant?

Why would NKorea want to attack Japan again?

First, the Korean War never ended. A ceasefire is not a treaty, and North Korea and South Korea are not defined as political entities by a formal peace treaty, hence, they do not recognize one-another.

As for Japan, the North Korean government provides asylum to members of the Japanese Communist League/Red Army Faction, who hijacked a Japanese plane back in 1970. The KNCA is regularly claiming that minor statements made in American, Japanese, and South Korean politics and news as "declarations of war" and is constantly rattling its saber. Half the reason the Japanese have been considering removing Article 9 from their constitution is because they are afraid of N. Korea.

As for creating a deterrant, the North Koreans have been pursuing nuclear capabilities for years. In 1991, the U.S. withdrew its nuclear arsenal from S. Korea, and despite attempts by Bill Clinton, against Republican opposition, to negotiate with N. Korea, they still tested an ICBM by flying it over Japan and claiming it was a "satellite launch" in August, 1998, scaring the crap out of Japan. But Taepodong-1 missiles are not built to launch satellites.

I don't know what Kim Jong Il thinks he has to gain. Personally, I think he wants to keep his cushy lifestyle, and thinks that if he scares the rest of the world enough, and brainwashes his own people enough, he can keep his position of privilege.

 

[centrajapan]

USA should change their name to United States of Human Right Violations.