So you want to live in Japan? - Japanese Culture and You
- Thread starter Kirirao
- Start date
- 17 Sep 2005
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Hello, Tragedy! In Pierrot's defense, he was merely just giving advice based on his own experience. Of course not everyone will have the same experience as he has.
I'm glad to hear that you had a good experience and joined the underground racing culture! I'd love to hear more about that!
I, too, have had what you could call a "good experience", although I sincerely hope that it has only just begun. I find a lot of problems, being a minority resident, but I expect no less. I'm actually constantly amazed at how egalitarian the vast majority of Japanese people I meet are, and how they react to us foreigners often in the exact same way they react to each other when they behave in the same way as "we" do. Of course there are exeptions, but ALL of us are only human, right?
I'm glad to hear that you had a good experience and joined the underground racing culture! I'd love to hear more about that!
I, too, have had what you could call a "good experience", although I sincerely hope that it has only just begun. I find a lot of problems, being a minority resident, but I expect no less. I'm actually constantly amazed at how egalitarian the vast majority of Japanese people I meet are, and how they react to us foreigners often in the exact same way they react to each other when they behave in the same way as "we" do. Of course there are exeptions, but ALL of us are only human, right?
sgt. Pepper
後輩
- 29 Jul 2004
- 162
- 2
Suicide!?
*Here's your extra ten characters, sucka!*
*Here's your extra ten characters, sucka!*
TyPe-ZeRo
先輩
- 13 Aug 2003
- 490
- 2
I'm so glad someone took the time to write this. I'll be honest here and think of my self with some amount of things that I view Japan as, but I believe my ideas, expectations of it, and the experience of it could/will be. I'm glad this exists because, had it not been for my realist personality, I would be in distress. I wholeheartilly agree that this thread is for specific, "wapanese" at my school who think pocky, anime, manga, and honda are the best things ever concieved by man, and have some false idea of Japan and its 'superiorness' to homeland (U.S.) or anywhere these thinking-japanese-elitists hail from. I don't mean negative about Japan, but some people go for the wrong reasons, which this essay is trying to point out based on personal experience.
Excellent posting!
I've been to Japan twice over the last few years and during that time spent a year there. Great country but not a place you'd want to live.
I work in IT/finance and gained some good skills which are now benefitting me in my own country.
Despite being another regular country, Japan has got itself a reputation as being the home of 'cool'. Geisha, robots, vending machines.....etc. The Japan I and most foreigners lived in was none of the above, apart from vending machines! And as for all this bowing and 'arigato gozaimasu' - not cool. Just how they do things there.
There's another website visited by foreigners that is jam-packed with threads asking 'how can I come to Japan', 'what are my chances of getting a job'. Get a life, people.
I've only ever met one guy who was honest enough to say the reason to be in Japan was for the women!
I've been to Japan twice over the last few years and during that time spent a year there. Great country but not a place you'd want to live.
I work in IT/finance and gained some good skills which are now benefitting me in my own country.
Despite being another regular country, Japan has got itself a reputation as being the home of 'cool'. Geisha, robots, vending machines.....etc. The Japan I and most foreigners lived in was none of the above, apart from vending machines! And as for all this bowing and 'arigato gozaimasu' - not cool. Just how they do things there.
There's another website visited by foreigners that is jam-packed with threads asking 'how can I come to Japan', 'what are my chances of getting a job'. Get a life, people.
I've only ever met one guy who was honest enough to say the reason to be in Japan was for the women!
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- 15 Mar 2002
- 16,758
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chome4 said:
Thanks for the heads up.
I never knew that there were any two foreigners who lived in the same Japan.
Those of us for whom life entails living and working in Japan appreciate the candor, if not the content, of your opinion.
senseiman
先輩
- 24 Jun 2003
- 679
- 47
chome4 said:
Really? I spent five years living in Japan and would gladly go back to live anytime. Its not without faults but I found they were more than outweighed by the positives.
chome4 said:
Vending machines are supposed to be cool? And robots and Geisha for that matter? The Japan I lived in didn't have many robots or Geisha either, but then again anyone of even borderline intelligence wouldn't have expected to find wall to wall Robots and Geisha upon arriving either.
chome4 said:
Yeah I know, what a bunch of losers. Asking for advice about how to get a job, jesus. If they were really cool like you they'd be posting a bunch of mind-numbingly moronic, judgmental crap.
chome4 said:
Yeah, what a rarity, meeting a one-year gaijin like yourself who is only in the country for the women. Such honesty, amazing.
gaijinalways
puzzled gaijin
- 15 Jan 2006
- 681
- 21
Hmm, opinions, opinions. Just like assholes, everybody has one. Japan is what you make it, but I would say cultural wise, it is difficult for Westerners to fit in here. I mean actually, it's difficult for Koreans to fit in here unless they submerge their ethnic identity.
As to the women, well, my time is running short, online today, that is. A pity.
As to the women, well, my time is running short, online today, that is. A pity.
alchow
Padawan
- 25 Jun 2006
- 8
- 0
*nods*
Amen to this. One of the Japanese-controlled companies here replaced the Japanese MD posted here because of one (admittedly costly) mistake, disregarding that the MD had led the company well for seven years, and that he had done quite a lot of good things for it. That's one example of the price of failure.
Tokyo-K1 said:
Amen to this. One of the Japanese-controlled companies here replaced the Japanese MD posted here because of one (admittedly costly) mistake, disregarding that the MD had led the company well for seven years, and that he had done quite a lot of good things for it. That's one example of the price of failure.
ghettocities
Sempai
- 16 Jun 2002
- 812
- 13
I do not want to live in Japan, I just want to die there.
Josh
Josh
leonmarino
Back
- 19 May 2006
- 1,258
- 64
The original post was very negative in my opinion, but I guess some "dreamers" might need such a wake-up call before they get their dreams shattered by reality.
I think experiences abroad can be positive or negative, for any country. I mean, I live in Holland and I like it here, but I can understand that any other person might not like it; no traditional cuisine, people are talkative (or plain rude), income taxes are high, intolerance by the government against immigrants etc. If you come here with the idea that "Holland is most free-minded country in the world" as many people say (about the same kind of people that say that Amsterdam is the coolest country in Europe), you will be disappointed. We are normal people, we live, we eat and sh*t and die. We are not stoned every day of our lives.
The same is for Belgium. Many people in Holland consider Belgium to be a fine place to live because of the fine cuisine, beautiful cities and favorable tax laws, but if your image is blurred by this dreamy wonderful image one might be disappointed to find that Belgium is not a utopia; the way of communicating is very different, level of healthcare is different etc. Oh yeah, and their football sucks. Kidding.
So the way false imagery can disappoint people with regards to Holland or Belgium, in the same way living in Japan can be a very negative experience. It is increased in the case of Japan, I think, because (1) many people have a weird image of Japan because of sensation seeking media coverage and manga, games etc. and (2) the Japanese culture is very different and isolated from many other cultures.
The original post may be a very good warning for people wanting to go to Japan. I am sure though that there are many people (also on this forum) that have lived in Japan for years and found themselves able to cope with the culture shock or cultural differences, and are able to enjoy Japan in their own way. It's not all negative and gaijin-hating. It's up to the person himself if he can enjoy Japan and its wonderful culture, cuisine and people.
I think experiences abroad can be positive or negative, for any country. I mean, I live in Holland and I like it here, but I can understand that any other person might not like it; no traditional cuisine, people are talkative (or plain rude), income taxes are high, intolerance by the government against immigrants etc. If you come here with the idea that "Holland is most free-minded country in the world" as many people say (about the same kind of people that say that Amsterdam is the coolest country in Europe), you will be disappointed. We are normal people, we live, we eat and sh*t and die. We are not stoned every day of our lives.
The same is for Belgium. Many people in Holland consider Belgium to be a fine place to live because of the fine cuisine, beautiful cities and favorable tax laws, but if your image is blurred by this dreamy wonderful image one might be disappointed to find that Belgium is not a utopia; the way of communicating is very different, level of healthcare is different etc. Oh yeah, and their football sucks. Kidding.
So the way false imagery can disappoint people with regards to Holland or Belgium, in the same way living in Japan can be a very negative experience. It is increased in the case of Japan, I think, because (1) many people have a weird image of Japan because of sensation seeking media coverage and manga, games etc. and (2) the Japanese culture is very different and isolated from many other cultures.
The original post may be a very good warning for people wanting to go to Japan. I am sure though that there are many people (also on this forum) that have lived in Japan for years and found themselves able to cope with the culture shock or cultural differences, and are able to enjoy Japan in their own way. It's not all negative and gaijin-hating. It's up to the person himself if he can enjoy Japan and its wonderful culture, cuisine and people.
Silverpoint
後輩
- 17 Jul 2005
- 483
- 44
There are two quotes from this debate that I found quite insightful, the first was from the OP:
Sometimes being in the 'gaijin club' can be a good thing. But I tend to avoid known gaijin haunts, bars etc. for the very reason that I don't want someone to automatically assume they can engage me in conversation, or that they can ask me 20 questions about my life in Japan simply because I'm someone they can communicate with. I also find it extremely annoying that they often assume I share their view (or often their moans) about Japan, simply because I'm another non-Japanese.
The second quote I liked was Elizabeth's, when she descrived living in Japan as a "never ending project" - lovely way of expressing it.
I think there is a fair degree of truth to this, at least with regard to short-term residents, who often don't make much attempt to integrate or learn the language. I actually made a similar point once in my wedding speech, when I commented that the gaijin I'd invited to attend my wedding party, were the kind of people that I'd choose to have as friends back home, rather than just a bunch of people who happen to speak the same language. However this is a strong argument in favor of studying Japanese, so you have a much wider base of people to choose from.
Sometimes being in the 'gaijin club' can be a good thing. But I tend to avoid known gaijin haunts, bars etc. for the very reason that I don't want someone to automatically assume they can engage me in conversation, or that they can ask me 20 questions about my life in Japan simply because I'm someone they can communicate with. I also find it extremely annoying that they often assume I share their view (or often their moans) about Japan, simply because I'm another non-Japanese.
The second quote I liked was Elizabeth's, when she descrived living in Japan as a "never ending project" - lovely way of expressing it.
Rather long but interesting read.
In my opinion all it takes for anyone to live in a foreign country that is radically different both linguistically and culturally is an ability to be flexible and not try to compare things with your country of origin.
Being able to accept things as they are imo helps one immensely in dealing with the people and the culture. I would also add that lowering one's expectations of what they are going to enounter would be beneficial as well.
It also makes it easier for "them" to accept you.
Interesting point, too many times I have run into another "gaijin" here and they expected that I was going to be automatically friendly and open with them just because they are "gaijin".
I am generally open and friendly to any person that I meet for the first time, but it doesnt mean I am going to automatically invite them over to the house for a beer. I've actually met other "gaijin" here that got upset because I would not assist them with some problems that they had at the time.
Their assumption was that just because I am a "gaijin" as well I am somehow obligated to be friendly or assist them.
In my opinion all it takes for anyone to live in a foreign country that is radically different both linguistically and culturally is an ability to be flexible and not try to compare things with your country of origin.
Being able to accept things as they are imo helps one immensely in dealing with the people and the culture. I would also add that lowering one's expectations of what they are going to enounter would be beneficial as well.
It also makes it easier for "them" to accept you.
Interesting point, too many times I have run into another "gaijin" here and they expected that I was going to be automatically friendly and open with them just because they are "gaijin".
I am generally open and friendly to any person that I meet for the first time, but it doesnt mean I am going to automatically invite them over to the house for a beer. I've actually met other "gaijin" here that got upset because I would not assist them with some problems that they had at the time.
Their assumption was that just because I am a "gaijin" as well I am somehow obligated to be friendly or assist them.
Silverpoint
後輩
- 17 Jul 2005
- 483
- 44
Here's a perfect example of this kind of thing, although I'm going to be a bit cagey and deliberately vague, because you never know who reads these forums.
Recently we employed a second foreigner in our department at work. I am his direct line manager, however I didn't recruit him. The organisation I work for made it pretty clear to me that because few people here speak English, I would need to take overall responsibility for him which I was happy to do.
On his first day at work he disclosed to me that he had lied on his application form and in his resume and in fact there were several major issues with his employment which would at best make him a poor choice for the job. In reality the situation is serious enough that he shouldn't really be working here at all. The organisation I work for has been *extremely* good to me, and it severely pissed me off that he thought it was fine to laugh about how he'd screwed with the system and assume that I'd somehow automatically side with him just because he's another gaijin.
My loyalties lie with people I like, and people I respect. No one has an automatic right to think I'm going to take their side just because I share their ethnicity. A jerk is a jerk, regardless of where they're from.
Recently we employed a second foreigner in our department at work. I am his direct line manager, however I didn't recruit him. The organisation I work for made it pretty clear to me that because few people here speak English, I would need to take overall responsibility for him which I was happy to do.
On his first day at work he disclosed to me that he had lied on his application form and in his resume and in fact there were several major issues with his employment which would at best make him a poor choice for the job. In reality the situation is serious enough that he shouldn't really be working here at all. The organisation I work for has been *extremely* good to me, and it severely pissed me off that he thought it was fine to laugh about how he'd screwed with the system and assume that I'd somehow automatically side with him just because he's another gaijin.
My loyalties lie with people I like, and people I respect. No one has an automatic right to think I'm going to take their side just because I share their ethnicity. A jerk is a jerk, regardless of where they're from.
kafkaesque
後輩
- 29 Jul 2010
- 3
- 0
Read through this thread recently. I am aware the pierrot le fou's experience is not the definitive Japan experience. His article may very well be a generalized analysis of one subgroup. However I'm afraid that as a person who has grown up around Japan's products and extensions of soft power, I too am a part of this group of people who may have an adoration for Japan for the "wrong" reasons. Having visited Japan twice in the past, however briefly it may have been (three months for both trips), I must agree that the Japan I came to imagine through my glimpses at movies and television shows does not exist in the flesh. I experienced the pros and cons of being an isolated foreigner. But, retrospectively beneath the culture-shcok, Japan was still a fascinating and beneficial experience.
Having recently graduated from my university, I have hoped to once again return to Japan. After spending a year working and saving up some money, I found that I had a bit of flight credit left with United Airlines. Using my credit, I purchased a round-trip ticket to Japan, moved out of my apartment, and now intend to visit yet again...and perhaps find work as well. Unfortunately, upon reading through this thread, I must say that I now feel apprehensive and rather unclear about my future, my goals, and a great level of homesickness for the people I will be leaving. Having played a minor role in my community of Austin, TX, I feel now that I may never see my friends nor my favorite places again. Am I abandoning my life and potential here? What if I were to stay?
As many post-graduates at this time, I feel that what I am experiencing is a bit of an identity crisis with my career-orientation. Traveling and moving on to something beyond my currently predictable lifestyle felt like something that would be positive, however upon hearing the varied opinions here, perhaps it is something foolish?
As Pachipro stated, I am a new member; I wrote a bit more about my own situation which can be found in the Japan Practical forum under the title "Homesickness and Apprehension". Looking back on my feelings, it does seem that I need a "vacation" anyway.
Having recently graduated from my university, I have hoped to once again return to Japan. After spending a year working and saving up some money, I found that I had a bit of flight credit left with United Airlines. Using my credit, I purchased a round-trip ticket to Japan, moved out of my apartment, and now intend to visit yet again...and perhaps find work as well. Unfortunately, upon reading through this thread, I must say that I now feel apprehensive and rather unclear about my future, my goals, and a great level of homesickness for the people I will be leaving. Having played a minor role in my community of Austin, TX, I feel now that I may never see my friends nor my favorite places again. Am I abandoning my life and potential here? What if I were to stay?
As many post-graduates at this time, I feel that what I am experiencing is a bit of an identity crisis with my career-orientation. Traveling and moving on to something beyond my currently predictable lifestyle felt like something that would be positive, however upon hearing the varied opinions here, perhaps it is something foolish?
As Pachipro stated, I am a new member; I wrote a bit more about my own situation which can be found in the Japan Practical forum under the title "Homesickness and Apprehension". Looking back on my feelings, it does seem that I need a "vacation" anyway.
Last edited:
- 19 Jan 2005
- 1,972
- 232
I think you should still go kafkaesque because if you don't, now that you have the chance, you will forever wonder, "What if?" and you don't want that haunting you for the rest of your life because it will always eat at you.kafkaesque said:
Don't just go by what you have read in this thread as both sides have been stated and different people have different experiences. You have to do what you feel is right and no one can make that decision for you. There are positives and negatives with every decision and if the positives outweigh the negatives, go for it. It's not like you can never return home again.
If you find employment and stay and after a year or two or three of living there you find it's not for you, there will still be positives to take back home with you like your language ability and the experience of living and interacting in a foreign country which many people never get. And if your stay is just for the length of your tourist visa, you'll probably be glad you went anyway even if it's just to get away for a while and ponder your future. Like you said, "Looking back on my feelings, it does seem that I need a vacation anyway."
tartSprite
tart_sprite
- 17 Jul 2010
- 1
- 0
Thanks
Thank you, your post was very helpful, for I have been doing research on the JET program and living in Japan for a few years now. I realize how different it will be, even scary, and I can't wait dive in and do my best. I do worry about the adaption, but I will have my husband with me, so we can fee isolated together I guess. I have about 4 years before I will apply, so I have a lot of time for more research, and become more fluent in Japanese.
Thanks again.
Thank you, your post was very helpful, for I have been doing research on the JET program and living in Japan for a few years now. I realize how different it will be, even scary, and I can't wait dive in and do my best. I do worry about the adaption, but I will have my husband with me, so we can fee isolated together I guess. I have about 4 years before I will apply, so I have a lot of time for more research, and become more fluent in Japanese.
Thanks again.
Kafkaesque, new horizons are never a bad choice!
I've grew up traveling a lot for my parent's work, so you could say I have the travel bug pretty bad. But even so, the decision to leave the US and move to Japan to teach English was extremely hard. It was exciting, panic inducing, adventurous, glamorous, nauseating, terrifying and much much more even to a seasoned traveler. I had actually been to Japan 3 other times in my life but still, its never easy to leave what you know and love. I wish that I hadn't waited so long to leave the US, after college, I did get that normal boring kind of job and sucked it up for 5 years before I realized that I was truly miserable.
That said, Japan can be hard (I'm a single, white female who doesn't speak Japanese at all) but it can be truly a great experience if you let it. Just don't doubt your choice too much or you won't enjoy your time abroad as much.
Good Luck!
Having an identity crisis after graduation is completely normal, and I think it's a great time for a little self-reflection. Traveling and expanding your horizons can never be foolish unless you are not prepared to open your mind to the adventures that await you!
I've grew up traveling a lot for my parent's work, so you could say I have the travel bug pretty bad. But even so, the decision to leave the US and move to Japan to teach English was extremely hard. It was exciting, panic inducing, adventurous, glamorous, nauseating, terrifying and much much more even to a seasoned traveler. I had actually been to Japan 3 other times in my life but still, its never easy to leave what you know and love. I wish that I hadn't waited so long to leave the US, after college, I did get that normal boring kind of job and sucked it up for 5 years before I realized that I was truly miserable.
That said, Japan can be hard (I'm a single, white female who doesn't speak Japanese at all) but it can be truly a great experience if you let it. Just don't doubt your choice too much or you won't enjoy your time abroad as much.
Good Luck!
Certainly an interesting read. A lot of the points do hit home and think this guy has made a very valid summary of how most people have a massive misconception of life in Japan.
Nonetheless....it got a bit dramatic and apocalyptic towards the end. lol. He may as well have said "life is good if you're not expeciting anything too abnormal. But...beware!!! For there will be dark days. Days in which your mind is consumed by evil that eventually drives you to suicide!!!"
dun, dun, duuuh, duuuuuuuuh!!!
Nonetheless....it got a bit dramatic and apocalyptic towards the end. lol. He may as well have said "life is good if you're not expeciting anything too abnormal. But...beware!!! For there will be dark days. Days in which your mind is consumed by evil that eventually drives you to suicide!!!"
dun, dun, duuuh, duuuuuuuuh!!!
Very interesting article, although I never thought of the country as "crazy women, nice gadgets" and stuff like that, I read the whole article. The problem with a guy like him, the one who wrote the article, is that: 1. He came from college with lack of work experience. 2. He has issues.
The guy says you can kill yourself in that country. Well, i don't know about that, i never been there, but it sounds to me like he is overreacting. Not everyone are like him. I've been in Belarus for over 3 years from 2003 to 2006. And i had lots of things to do in there. I quickly after landing there look for school to study in and a job to work. I kept myself busy all the time so i didn't have to worry about it. And yes, many of the cultural stuff are like what he said: "swallow your pride". Even if I didn't do anything wrong I apologized to my friends/aunts/cousins/uncles out there. And yes it's more alike what the writer described Japan.
The guy says you can kill yourself in that country. Well, i don't know about that, i never been there, but it sounds to me like he is overreacting. Not everyone are like him. I've been in Belarus for over 3 years from 2003 to 2006. And i had lots of things to do in there. I quickly after landing there look for school to study in and a job to work. I kept myself busy all the time so i didn't have to worry about it. And yes, many of the cultural stuff are like what he said: "swallow your pride". Even if I didn't do anything wrong I apologized to my friends/aunts/cousins/uncles out there. And yes it's more alike what the writer described Japan.
