Not sure if to continue studying Japanese due to mannerisms.

[Shahar1992]

You remind me of my grandmother. Even if she wanted to do something she would act like she didn't because she wanted people to beg her to do it.

We're not cultural missionaries trying to convince you to learn Japanese. A native speaker of Japanese and several foreign residents who have lengthy and extensive familiarity with the language in real-world daily usage have told you that what you saw during flipping through a few television shows is not representative of what one encounters in most interactions in real-life. You are free to ignore us and to persist with your misinformed and inaccurate perceptions. It is no skin off our noses if you don't learn Japanese. Chances are you would have quit soon anyway.

I don't understand why you are still hanging around here, unless you're just trolling us.

You essentially joined this site just to tell us you're not going to learn Japanese. Do you always do stuff like this when you're not getting enough attention? Nobody cares if you don't want to learn. Bugger off and satisfy your need to be the center of attention somewhere else.

I am not trolling, I just wanted to see what others think about all this.

I have found the Japanese term that describes what I am talking about, it's called, "Aizuchi", 相槌.
I am qouting from the Wikipedia page in English on it:
In the Japanese language, Aizuchi (Japanese: 相槌 or あいづち, IPA: [aizu͍t͡ɕi]) are the frequent interjections during a conversation that indicate the listener is paying attention and/or understanding the speaker. In linguistic terms, these are a form of phaticexpression. Aizuchi are considered reassuring to the speaker, indicating that the listener is active and involved in the discussion.[1]

Aizuchi are frequently misinterpreted by non-native speakers as the listener showing agreement or fully comprehending what is being said.[2]

Common aizuchi include:

• hai (はい), ee (ええ), or un (うん)(yes, with varying degrees of formality)
• sō desu ne (そうですね) (I see.)
• sō desu ka (そうですか) (is that so?)
• hontō (本当), hontō ni (本当に), maji(マジ), or (in Kansai) honma (本真)(really)
• naruhodo (なるほど) (I see, that's right)
• nodding.

So this + the "ne" that the Japanese say after almost every sentence are the reasons I do not want to study Japanese.
If the Japanese did not use this "Aizuchi" and the "ne" I would have continued studying it.

 

[Toritoribe]

The phenomenon you are talking about such like elongated vowels or the sentence middle/final particle "ne" are not aizuchi. Again and again, learn the common way of speaking Japanese and use it. You don't need to talk like a "gyaru". Or, quit learning Japanese just because of your wrong assumption. You can choose the one you like.

 

[Shahar1992]

The phenomenon you are talking about such like elongated vowels or the sentence middle/final particle "ne" are not aizuchi. Again and again, learn the common way of speaking Japanese and use it. You don't need to talk like a "gyaru". Or, quit learning Japanese just because of your wrong assumption. You can choose the one you like.

I understand that you are the native speaker right?.
I just wish you, the Japanese people spoke your language the way people speak English or Hebrew that is without any of those interjections and without any nodding, and the "ne" after every sentence.
That is someone is speaking , and the other one is quite until he finishes to say whatever he wants to say.
Because again I really like the sound of your language I think it sounds good.

 

[Toritoribe]

Again and again and again, not all Japanese people speak like that, and no one forces you to speak like that. It's OK you just learn the common Japanese, and speak it. It's quite simple. If you want to learn Japanese, do it. And if you don't want, quite it. Period.

 

[Shahar1992]

Again and again and again, not all Japanese people speak like that, and no one forces you to speak like that. It's OK you just learn the common Japanese, and speak it. It's quite simple. If you want to learn Japanese, do it. And if you don't want, quite it. Period.

I actually thought of doing that, learning Japanese and speaking it the way I would speak my native language Hebrew or English whom I can also speak, that is without all the nodding and without all the Aizuchi and the "ne".
But wouldn't that be considered rude ?.
I mean after reading about the Aizuchi I understand that is meant to show the person you are listening to them and also all the nodding.
And the "ne" is supposed to "soften" the sentences right? So wouldn't that be considered rude to never use it?.
So all in all I am afraid that if I will speak Japanese without all that , the Japanese people will think I am rude.

 

[Toritoribe]

You still don't understand the function of "ne". It's a colloquial expression, and it can be rude to use it instead of polite language. What you watched in the TV shows is an extreme example, anyway. You won't come across those way of speaking so frequently, and you don't need to use it at all.

 

[diligentcircle]

I'm madly curious, what is so special about "the sound" of Japanese to you?

All languages, including Japanese, can sound very different from person to person. That includes sounding fantastic, and it includes sounding absolutely grating, and it even includes voices you hate that someone else loves.

 

[Shahar1992]

I'm madly curious, what is so special about "the sound" of Japanese to you?

All languages, including Japanese, can sound very different from person to person. That includes sounding fantastic, and it includes sounding absolutely grating, and it even includes voices you hate that someone else loves.

I just think it sounds good overall.
I like that it's not a tonal language like Chinese or many other asian languages.
I also like that the almost every word has to end in a vowel and not in a consonant.
That is mostly I noticed in loan words.
Also I like that unlike French or even English you pronounce the word the way it's written.
And also I like that it doesn't have annoying or awkward sounds like the hard ch in Hebrew or the th sound in English.
But again what ruins everything for me is the Aizuchi.

 

[Toritoribe]

Again, read the response more carefully.
The phenomenon you are talking about such like elongated vowels or the sentence middle/final particle "ne" are not aizuchi.
Not sure if to continue studying Japanese due to mannerisms. | Page 2 | Japan Forum

You don't need to use it if you don't like it. No one forces you to use it. Or, quit learning Japanese. No one forces you to learn it, either.

 

[Shahar1992]

Again, read the response more carefully.
The phenomenon you are talking about such like elongated vowels or the sentence middle/final particle "ne" are not aizuchi.
Not sure if to continue studying Japanese due to mannerisms. | Page 2 | Japan Forum

You don't need to use it if you don't like it. No one forces you to use it. Or, quit learning Japanese. No one forces you to learn it, either.

Ok forget about the "ne" or elongated vowels I am talking about the real Aizuchi now, the "hai", " eeee" ,"soo desu ka" and the nodding.
Can I just speak it without all those things?.
From my understanding it's pretty important to you the Japanese people so I am afraid that without nodding or saying "hai" or "eee" or "soo desu ka" and all the other Aizuchi I will come across as robotic or rude to native Japanese speakers.
For me as I am used from my own language, Hebrew, and from English, you show that you are listening by being quiet not by nodding or using "Aizuchi" words in the middle of the other person's speech.

 

[Toritoribe]

Can I just speak it without all those things?

Yes, of course.

From my understanding it's pretty important to you the Japanese people so I am afraid that without nodding or saying "hai" or "eee" or "soo desu ka" and all the other Aizuchi I will come across as robotic or rude to native Japanese speakers.

No, not at all.

Should I repeat the same words again?
You don't need to use it if you don't like it. No one forces you to use it. Or, quit learning Japanese. No one forces you to learn it, either.

 

[OoTmaster]

You're not a native Japanese speaker so you're not going to be perceived as rude unless you're specifically trying to be rude. The Japanese language is very difficult to use in the correct politeness if you are a non-native speaker. I very rarely used Aizuchi when I was in Japan when talking with natives. They didn't seem upset or think I was being rude, quite the opposite they were delighted I was conversing in their language and encouraged me based off the Japanese I did know.

 

[mdchachi]

It's true that aizuchi is a fundamental part of the language. But it's not something you sit down and learn, it's something that comes naturally as get immersed and talk with people. If you don't use aizuchi, it won't be thought to be rude or anything. You are already speaking like a foreigner. In real life conversation they are hardly noticeable in my opinion. I found an example of "normal" conversation for you.

There is aizuchi all throughout. If this still bothers you then yes you definitely should move on to another language. (Though actually there many other reasons not to study Japanese. Like the fact that it's a language that really is only useful in one country.)

 

[Mike Cash]

There is a fundamental logical disconnect involved in all this.

He doesn't want to learn Japanese because of the sound of certain features that he claims are universally present in all Japanese speech and which he finds annoying.

He claims to have wanted to learn Japanese because he likes the way it sounds.

These are mutually irreconcilable.

Troll, or attention whöre wanting us to beg him to learn Japanese.

 

[Shahar1992]

It's true that aizuchi is a fundamental part of the language. But it's not something you sit down and learn, it's something that comes naturally as get immersed and talk with people. If you don't use aizuchi, it won't be thought to be rude or anything. You are already speaking like a foreigner. In real life conversation they are hardly noticeable in my opinion. I found an example of "normal" conversation for you.

There is aizuchi all throughout. If this still bothers you then yes you definitely should move on to another language. (Though actually there many other reasons not to study Japanese. Like the fact that it's a language that really is only useful in one country.)

Hi.
Thank you for sharing this video but I still find it annoying how they speak.
They still spoke with "Aizuchi" and also with "ne".
From the beginning I have noticed the first guy who spoke used "ne" several times.
And also another annoying mannerism I have noticed with Japanese speakers is that some of tend to suck in air before speaking like the speaker did in 01:39.
I have already decided not to learn it.
Because of the "Aizuchi" which contrary to what many say here is a fundamental part of Japanese speaking.
And the second is because of Kanji which I also hate.
If the Japanese used only the phonetic alphabets Hiragana and Katakana than I would study it but it would take me years to learn all those Kanji characters.

 

[Shahar1992]

There is a fundamental logical disconnect involved in all this.

He doesn't want to learn Japanese because of the sound of certain features that he claims are universally present in all Japanese speech and which he finds annoying.

He claims to have wanted to learn Japanese because he likes the way it sounds.

These are mutually irreconcilable.

Troll, or attention whöre wanting us to beg him to learn Japanese.

There is no "disconnect" in here.
I don't have a problem with how "Aizuchi" sounds like, I have a problem the Japanese people use it all the time in speaking their language.
If they spoke their language like English without any "Aizuchi" I would have loved studying it.

 

[Toritoribe]

Japanese people use it all the time in speaking their language

It's wrong, as I repeatedly pointed out, but anyway, you will find soon the next excuse that you don't learn the language other than "ne" or aizuchi. Quit learning Japanese. Period.

 

[diligentcircle]

These are mutually irreconcilable.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Oh, I just love the way your chocolate chip cookies taste! But you know, I don't like the taste of the chocolate chips. I wish you would make your cookies chip-free like the sugar cookies I make back at home, then I would eat them. I love chocolate chip cookies, by the way!

 

[Shahar1992]

Exactly what I was thinking.

Oh, I just love the way your chocolate chip cookies taste! But you know, I don't like the taste of the chocolate chips. I wish you would make your cookies chip-free like the sugar cookies I make back at home, then I would eat them. I love chocolate chip cookies, by the way!

No, that's a bad analogy.
A more appropriate one is this :
I love the way the car looks ( the way Japanese words sound like).
However the way the Japanese people drive the car (speak their language) is with manual transmission (all of the nodding, and "Aizuchi" and "ne").
I am used to driving cars using Automatica transmission (without nodding and "Aizuchi" and "ne").
This is the disconnect in here and is why I am not going to study it because I want to speak Japanese "on my own terms" which is impossible of course.
Plus I don't have power to study thousands of Kanji characters.
Here too I think the Japanese should have adopted fully phonetic characters.

 

[Mike Cash]

Can we please lock this circular thread and/or ban Obvious Troll?

 

[Shahar1992]

Can we please lock this circular thread and/or ban Obvious Troll?

Please "Mike Cash" I opened this thread and I am asking you to please don't reply here.
You are free to take your negativity and rudeness to other threads.
This thread is for polite people who want to have a polite discussion.
I understand you have been living in Japan for many years, I would think living in Japan would make someone more polite, but I guess if that person is a complete jerk from the beginning it doesn't matter, he will stay a jerk.

 

[Toritoribe]

Please do not do personal attacks, otherwise this thread will be closed.

 

[AmerikaJin5]

Imagine if he had watched a detective drama. He would believe that Japanese people never face each other when having a discussion!

And that there's no electric interior lighting to speak of in Japanese office buildings.