Negative Culture Shock, How do you Deal?

[Mike Cash]

What I said came from a book, "Learning to Bow" by an American teacher (Bruce Feiler) who spent 1 year teaching in Tochigi. He was sent by US Ministry of Education (or what it is called there) by invitation of Japanese Government.

Oh wow! A book by a clueless one-year noob on the JET program! Thanks for demonstrating again the pitfalls of choosing to remain in the ignorance and isolation of illiteracy! You have to rely on the dubious cuz-another-gaijin-sez-so misinformation grapevine. You crack me up!

Quite an informative book, no reason not to trust him.

Except that he is demonstrably WRONG and that either he has lied, has exaggerated, was just pulling stuff out his ***, or you have misunderstood, misrecalled, or misrepresented what he wrote.

Let me see....I could trust an academic paper in the native language of the country, prepared by experts in the field and who have full and unfettered access to necessary source material and the ability to read and analyze it and whose work is subject to review and examination..... Or I could swallow a load of horse**** from a guy who spent a year as a human tape recorder on what is the most notoriously undemanding English teaching job in Japan and then double down on it when presented with evidence contradicting him and the BS statements I made based off of it. Gee....which one should I do?

 

[think_too_mut]

Do I give a toss about what you googled? That junk from the net could be written by truck drivers who have little idea about the thematic.
Bought the book to rip it apart but after few pages realized the guy is onto something. Checked several surprising details with my colleagues, they all confirmed he knew what he was talking about.

 

[Mike Cash]

Do I give a toss about what you googled?

Certainly. You're here trying discussing it and asking your equally clueless colleagues to back up your incorrect assertion in order to refute it.

That junk from the net could be written by truck drivers who have little idea about the thematic.

More of your blinkered ignorance easily dispelled:

Hell, even you should be able to read that.

What is it that comes after doubling down? Is it tripling down or would it be quadrupling down?

Are you seriously going to try to maintain that a "fact" put in a book by a first-year human tape recorder at a junior high school in a country where he neither knew the language nor was in any position to know how much vocabulary is taught in junior school and high school or how it has changed over the decades is to be given more credence than an academic paper based on actually analyzing the curriculum, teaching guidelines, and teaching materials and which cites its sources?

That is one of the most laughable positions I have ever seen anyone anywhere try to defend. Quit digging; you've hit bedrock. You'd need dynamite to get yourself into a deeper and more inextricable position than that.

Bought the book to rip it apart but after few pages realized the guy is onto something. Checked several surprising details with my colleagues, they all confirmed he knew what he was talking about.

Since so far we have learned that you take as a matter of pride your complete lack of facility with the language and are thus far more than you will ever realize hopelessly hamstrung in your ability to have any clue whatsoever what is going on around you outside the tiny cocoon of the gaijin bubble you have chosen to remain inside for over a decade, are entirely dependent on what your small circle of bilingual Japanese acquaintances may choose to tell you or....worse.... the cuz-another-gaijin-sez-so hotbed of cluelessness, misinformation, hearsay, and urban legends passed one to another over the decades like priceless heirlooms..... just what was it you thought you would use to rip the book apart? You've chosen a course of such utter self-isolation and dependence on others that despite a dozen years here you're no better informed or less clueless than he was in his first year.

Try spouting some misinformation that takes more than about fifteen seconds of googling to refute. Your stuff isn't even a challenge.

 

[Mike Cash]

Still, your googling shows considerable number of words.

A bit over half what you and Feiler claim.

If my 5,000 words were for Uni entrance, does not change much.

Was that what it was for? Is that your pull-it-out-my-a** fact now? Also demonstrably wrong, and grossly so:

大学入試英語問題語彙の妥当性と実用性の時代的変化

 

[think_too_mut]

So, how does your googling junk (that probably surprises you with what you have stumbled on) explain that Japanese have English in their heads but refuse to speak it?

 

[Mike Cash]

So, how does your googling junk (that probably surprises you with what you have stumbled on) explain that Japanese have English in their heads but refuse to speak it?

Why should I be surprised by what I found? After all, I only dug it up to show you how wrong you were, your folly in relying on a source like that book, and the pitfalls of choosing to remain illiterate and dependent on dubious sources like that. Since I showed you to be mistaken by roughly a factor of two I should think it is you who would be surprised.

I haven't troubled myself with worrying about the state of English education in Japan or about the nature of practical English skills. I don't teach English and I don't use English in any aspect of my daily life outside a few places on the internet. I don't have to rely on others being proficient in English to translate the would around me and do everything for me, so it is a total non-issue as far as I'm concerned. One does not require English whatsoever to function just fine in this country.W

 

[Treky]

@OP:
Having lived in various countries for years, I can tell you that "cultural shock" is not what you are experiencing.
The "cultural shock" is when you look with disdain at everything in the new environment, idealizing what you left at home.

First of all, who are you to tell me what I am experiencing is not culture shock? Isolating yourself from others is one of the main aspects of culture shock.

Not trying to learn Japanese will just add to the negative stigma attached to foreigners here. If you at least show you are trying Japanese people appreciate it. You are in their country, at least try to use their language.

 

[Treky]

Treky: your posts reminded me of the author behind the ZoomingJapan website (a German woman living in Japan), who has had very similar experiences.




And, perhaps, most tellingly:


Unfortunately, it looks like she, too, doesn't really have a "solution" other than to just accept it (and occasionally react in Japanese as already suggested here).

Yea I agree, some days nothing like this happens, and other days its all the time. I guess its just learning to rise above it and not let it stress you out too much. I'm still working on that aspect.

 

[thomas]

Gentlemen, I have removed a few posts from this thread. A little reminder:

Forum Rules

Spoiler: Mutual Respect

I. Mutual respect
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[cocoichi]

First of all, who are you to tell me what I am experiencing is not culture shock? Isolating yourself from others is one of the main aspects of culture shock.

Not trying to learn Japanese will just add to the negative stigma attached to foreigners here. If you at least show you are trying Japanese people appreciate it. You are in their country, at least try to use their language.

Treky, culture shock in academic terms comes in a few phases. First everything is new and great, then you slowly start to see the annoying parts of a culture. Congratulations, you have reached the bottom of your feelings. From here things can only go better! From here you will start to adjust and later you will adapt to your environment. How long these phases are, depends on each person. I can guarantee that the negative feeling will go away, at some point.

You do have to avoid cocooning though. Personally I did not experience any negative feelings at first in my safe exchange student bubble, but it came after a couple of months when I moved to Okinawa for a bit. I had no friends there and everything looked different from the Japan that I knew. I was about to book a flight home, until I decided I should go to some bars by myself to meet whoever would be there. I can tell you I had the best months of my life after that.

Yes, it would be technically possible to die of old age in Japan without knowing more than a few words of Japanese, but not learning the language is the last thing I would advise someone. I know some people living in Japan for more than 10 years, and they are clueless to this date, relying on their wives for about anything. Learning words/kanji and finding them in street signs and advertisements has always given me a sense of satisfaction, because you literally start to understand your surroundings better. "Think too mut" might have different experiences, but I have encountered many Japanese people who were very surprised that I spoke some Japanese, and were very interested to know more about me. I had many entertaining conversations this way.