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Miyamoto Yuriko

karenk

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I think 正しい modifies 武器, not 階級. It's also possible to interpret that 正しい modifies 萌芽.
That was my first thought. So it would be "the right/proper weapon of the (proletarian) class", right?
 
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karenk

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Could you check my understanding of this passage, please?

「早発性痴呆とかいうんじゃないかしら……私の風邪もそのおかげなのよ。帝大病院へつれて行ったんだけれど、電車を降りてずっと歩き出すとそのまんまどこまででも真直に行っちまうんですもの。――傘をひろげると、すぼめることが分らなくなるんですもの……とても骨を折っちゃった」
「会社の方はどのくらい休めるの?」
「今は欠勤だけれども、どうせもう駄目だわ」
「そんなに遊んだことがあるのかしら……」
 第一次世界戦争が終り、日本に気違い景気があった頃、彼女の父親は丁度妻を失った時であった。気違い景気のいく分のおこぼれにあずかり、彼も小市民らしい遊蕩をやった。相当ひどくやって、九年の恐慌とともに、その放埒は終結したが、今その不運な成果が現れたという訳なのであった。

What I've gathered is that Ineko's father probably has dementia and when Yuriko asks her how long he can stay away from work, Ineko answers that he is not working at the moment, but probably would not be able to do it anymore. From this point on, it seems that the dissipated lifestyle he led during the "crazy economy years" is blamed for his current condition and そんなに遊んだことがあるのかしら…… could be translated as "I wonder if he played so hard to get like this..." Is that so? Thank you!
 

karenk

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And by the way, when she says 九年の恐慌, she is refering to a economic crisis that occured in taisho 9 (1920), right?
 

bentenmusume

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Your interpretation seems mostly on target to me.

The daughter believes her father has early-onset dementia. He's currently on unpaid leave, but as she sees it, he's probably too disabled to ever resume the job. He lived a wild life of boozing and womanizing when he was single and petit bourgeois in the booming economy days, then it all came crashing down with the postwar economic crisis and he's paying the piper now, so to speak.

karenk said:
そんなに遊んだことがあるのかしら…… could be translated as "I wonder if he played so hard to get like this..." Is that so?
I'm pretty sure you're interpreting the meaning right, but I'm not sure that we would use "play" like this in English (perhaps it has that nuance in the word "playboy", for example, but not when used alone). But yes, I would also interpret it as musing/wondering to herself whether his excesses were so extreme that they would lead to this sort of a condition while he's still (relatively) young.

(edit: of course, Toritoribe-san can come along to let me know if I'm completely wrong here ;))
 

karenk

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Your interpretation seems mostly on target to me.

The daughter believes her father has early-onset dementia. He's currently on unpaid leave, but as she sees it, he's probably too disabled to ever resume the job. He lived a wild life of boozing and womanizing when he was single and petit bourgeois in the booming economy days, then it all came crashing down with the postwar economic crisis and he's paying the piper now, so to speak.


I'm pretty sure you're interpreting the meaning right, but I'm not sure that we would use "play" like this in English (perhaps it has that nuance in the word "playboy", for example, but not when used alone). But yes, I would also interpret it as musing/wondering to herself whether his excesses were so extreme that they would lead to this sort of a condition while he's still (relatively) young.

(edit: of course, Toritoribe-san can come along to let me know if I'm completely wrong here ;))
Thank you, yes my translations into English are a bit "raw" because I translate into Portuguese and I'm unable to elaborate too much in English. lol
 

bentenmusume

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No worries at all! I figured you understood it just fine, and considering my (nonexistent) skills in any language besides English and Japanese, I'm certainly not one to pick nits with your English. ;)
 

Toritoribe

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Bentenmusume-san already gave the correct interpretation of 今は欠勤だけれども、どうせもう駄目だわ, which is the only one point I wanted to say.:)

And by the way, when she says 九年の恐慌, she is refering to a economic crisis that occured in taisho 9 (1920), right?
Right.
 

karenk

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Ok, I'm going back to Ippon no Hana because there are some points that are not very clear to me, like here:  若し今まで結婚生活が続いていたら、自分はこのように細かに、何か木の芽でも育つのを見守るように心や官能の生長を自分に味うことが出来たであろうか。朝子はよくそう思い、世間並に考えれば、また当時にあっては、朝子にとっても大きな不幸であった不幸を、ただ不運とばかりは考えなかった。女一人の生長。――自然はその女が夫を持っていようといまいと、そんなことに頓着はしていない。時が来れば、花を咲かせる。――自然は浄きかな――

How do you interpret this passage: 世間並に考えれば、また当時にあっては、朝子にとっても大きな不幸であった不幸を、ただ不運とばかりは考えなかった。?

Is 当時 refering to her past or to her present? To me it is the former, that from the point of view of society, what happened to her (losing her husband) was seen as a great tragedy, but that to her it was nothing more than bad luck.
 
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Toritoribe

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Yes, it's the former.
当時にあっては is not 当時にあったのは "what happened to her." It's 当時は "at the time."
 

karenk

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Yes, it's the former.
当時にあっては is not 当時にあったのは "what happened to her." It's 当時は "at the time."
Do you interpret this passage the same way I do?
The book with the translation of this text that I've ordered back in September arrived yesterday, but the translator interpreted it like: "if she thought like everybody else, and also according to herself in those moments, this tragedy was a great adversity, but she didn't believe that it was necessarily bad luck" (this is a literal translation, of course). I hoped that the translation could help me clarify some points, but I feel that it confused even more. lol
 

Toritoribe

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I think the subject of 考える is not her in 世間並に考えれば. It's more likely "from the point of view of society", as you translated. The rest interpretation is OK.
 

karenk

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Hi, please, does anyone know if 横通り mean simply "crossroads" or "bystreet" or if it is the name of a street in Tokyo?

その時外はすっかり夜で、細かい雨が降り出していた。寒さの用心にスウェーターを包んだ風呂敷包みをかかえ、傘をさし、もう一人のスパイと人通りのない雨の横通りを歩いて駒込署へ行った。

And how would you describe a 高等室? Dignified, high class?

二階の狭い高等室に誰もいず、カサのないむき出しの電燈が、机の上のさまざまな印形の詰った箱だの「自警」という雑誌の表紙だのを照らしている。
 
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mdchachi

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Hi, please, does anyone know if 横通り mean simply "crossroads" or "bystreet" or if it is the name of a street in Tokyo?
I think bystreet or side street is a safe bet. In Japan streets mostly aren't named except for large thoroughfares like Meiji Dori or famous roads like Takeshita Dori.
 

karenk

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「どっちみち大したことはないさ。二三年行って来りゃいいんだ。――気の毒だが君もこれからは不安な生活をしなければならないね」

My take: "Anyway it is nothing serious." (I understood that by 二三年行って来りゃいいんだ he is saying that Yuriko would be coming and going to the Police Station or getting in and out of detention for a good 2-3 years. Is my understanding right?) "2-3 years in and out will be enough/do you good. Unfortunately, your life won't be easy from now on."
 

karenk

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I think that i've found the meaning of 高等室, it would be the inspetor/director's room...
 

karenk

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I think that i've found the meaning of 高等室, it would be the inspetor/director's room...
Thank you! That helps a lot, it was the room of a special police division that cracked and repressed political/socialist movements then...

Do you know if the police at the time still wore swords? When she describes an officer she says: 剣を吊って or could it be a bayonet?
 
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mdchachi

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Is this Taisho era? I think swords were common.
1614975483667.png
 

Toritoribe

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その後、西南戦争での抜刀隊の活躍や、欧州各国の警官が洋刀を佩用していること考慮して、帯刀の解禁が検討されるようになり、1882年12月2日の太政官達第63号をもって、1883年5月24日より、全国一斉に帯刀が開始された
佩刀としては基本的にはサーベルが用いられていたが、幹部などは刀身が日本刀の場合もあり、外装も高級であった。

サーベル・短剣は、連合国軍最高司令官総司令部(GHQ)の指示に基づき、1946年3月12日に公布した「警察官及消防官服制、巡査服制及判任官待遇消防手服制臨時特例」(昭和21年勅令第133号)により佩用禁止となり


Policemen used to wear a saber or Japanese sword until the end of WW2.
 

karenk

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Hi, how would you translate 保護室? Is it a kind of infirmary ward? Or is it more like a solitary confinement? By the descriptions I've read, it would be somewhere between the two, but since there were many people together in there, it could not be "solitary"...

四月に入ってはいるが、毎日雨が降る。じかに床に坐っているので冷える。ヤスが和服と暖い下着をさし入れてくれたのを着て、綿ネルの襤褸(ぼろ)になった寝間着を畳んだものの上に坐っている。留置場へ入れられた翌日も雨で寒かったから、多勢の男のいる保護室の誰かがその上に座っておれと云ってその古ネマキを貸してくれたのであった。
 

Toritoribe

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保護室, which is often translated "protection room", is a room to confine heavily drunken people, i.e., not a detention room for suspects. The following explanation in the wikipedia page is about police after WW2, but 保護室 also existed before WW2 for the same purpose.

警察の保護室
「酒に酔つて公衆に迷惑をかける行為の防止等に関する法律」に基づき泥酔者・同法違反者を保護収容・留置するために、警察署には保護室(トラ箱)が設けられている。

 

karenk

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保護室, which is often translated "protection room", is a room to confine heavily drunken people, i.e., not a detention room for suspects. The following explanation in the wikipedia page is about police after WW2, but 保護室 also existed before WW2 for the same purpose.

警察の保護室
「酒に酔つて公衆に迷惑をかける行為の防止等に関する法律」に基づき泥酔者・同法違反者を保護収容・留置するために、警察署には保護室(トラ箱)が設けられている。

Thank you! I read this explanation, but I was not sure if it was used just for drunk people. In some instances it seemed to be used for people who were out of themselves for some reason or other and needed to be isolated. I think I will translate it as something like "drunkard room".

And what about やって下さい/やってくれ below? Could it be translated just as "let/allow to me go (to the bathroom)"?

「ねえ、旦那やって下さいよ、お願いします」
と、保護室でいっている。
「さっきの交代の時、次の時間まで待てと云ったからおとなしく待っていたんですから……ねえ、旦那」
 便所へやってくれというのである。わたしは腹立たしい心持と観察的な心持とでそれを聞いている。
 
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Toritoribe

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In some instances it seemed to be used for people who were out of themselves for some reason or other and needed to be isolated.
Yes, 保護室 can be used for suspects for that purpose, but suspects and drunken people are not accommodated in the same room at the same time, I think.

And what about やって下さい/やってくれ below? Could it be translated just as "let/allow to me go (to the bathroom)"?
Yes.
 
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