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Miyamoto Yuriko

karenk

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Hi, I'm translating Miyamoto's "Ippon no hana" and have a doubt about a passage:
去年からでは、でも千ばかり減りましたね。……田舎のひとだって、この頃は婦人雑誌どんどんとるんだから、断るのが自然ですよ。比べて見れば、誰だってほかの雑誌がやすくって面白いと思う んだもの」
 一円本の話が出て、それに矢崎も加わった。
「娘がやかましく云うんで、小学生全集をとっているんですが、一体あんなものはどの位儲かるもんでしょうな……」
社でも何か一つとってくれないかな、そうすると僕たち助かっちゃうんだが」
「矢崎さん、いかが? それ位のこと出来ませんか」

Is the person asking Yazaki to subscribe to the 小学生全集 and saying that they would help with the money? Could anyone clarify? Thanks!
 

Majestic

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He's asking for the company to subscribe to it so that he/they can read it without paying for it.
In other words, it will help him out financially if the company subscribes to one of these magazines.
 

karenk

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Hi, what about this passage:

「一度是非聴きにいらっしゃい、全くそこいら辺のガアガアの雑音の入るのとは訳が違うんです――もう二三日すると、京城も入るようにします、朝鮮語ってえものは一寸いいですね

京城 is how Seul was called during the Japanese occupation, I get that the man wants the radio to tune to Korea, but I didn't get the last part about the Korean language: えものは一寸いいですね

Could anybody explain it to me?
 

Majestic

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I'm partially guessing at both, but I think

朝鮮語ってえもの is just colloquial use of ~というもの
一寸いいですね quite nice (a little nice).
 

karenk

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I'm partially guessing at both, but I think

朝鮮語ってえもの is just colloquial use of ~というもの
一寸いいですね quite nice (a little nice).

Thank you, it makes sense, I have a hard time translating dialogues because I have to guess a lot.
 

karenk

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Hi! In this passage:
 金庫を背にした正面の机の前から、嘉造が、入って来る朝子に挨拶した。朝子と同じ年であったが、商売にかけると、二十七とは思えない腕があった。
「おい、工場へ行っといで」
「――二階――よござんすか」

 濃い髪が一文字に生えた額際に特徴ある頭を嘉造は、
「どうぞ」
と云う代りに黙って下げた。
 自分の腕に自信があって、全然情に絆(ほだ)されることなく使用人を使うし、算盤を弾くし、食えない生れつきは商売を始めた親父より強そうな嘉造を見ると、朝子はいつも一種の興味と反感とを同時に覚えた。朝子は、団栗眼(どんぐりまなこ)の十二三の給仕が揃えてくれた草履に換え、右手の壁について階段を登った。

To whom the order/questions are addressed?

「おい、工場へ行っといで」I believe that he is asking an employee to go to the fabric and not the woman he is with. Or is he inviting her to go to the second floor?
「――二階――よござんすか」Is he shouting to someone on the second floor, or is someone he sent to the second floor asking the others if everything is okay? Or, is he asking the woman if she is okay about going to the second floor?

Ideas? Thanks!
 

Majestic

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Isn't he telling Asako to go to the factory (which is on the second floor)?

"Go to the factory" = or alternatively, "Please go to the factory", "Please go to the factory (and wait for further instructions)".
"The 2nd floor, got it?"

Its quite colloquial Japanese. Feels like it would be a tough book to use for studying Japanese.
 

karenk

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Yes, that was my first interpretation, but then I started second guessing myself and asked if someone would use 行っといで to ask someone to go upstairs. The dialogues are very colloquial and a bit dated. Thank you!
 

Toritoribe

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Karenk-san's understanding is correct for the first line of the conversation. 嘉造 is asking an employee to go to the factory to get 校正 for 朝子. As you know from the context, she came to the printing office to get 校正.

The second line is 朝子's words. Right after this line, 嘉造 nodded his head instead of saying yes, thus, this line can't be his question. In fact, 朝子 went upstairs at the end of your quote.
 

karenk

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Karenk-san's understanding is correct for the first line of the conversation. 嘉造 is asking an employee to go to the factory to get 校正 for 朝子. As you know from the context, she came to the printing office to get 校正.

The second line is 朝子's words. Right after this line, 嘉造 nodded his head instead of saying yes, thus, this line can't be his question. In fact, 朝子 went upstairs at the end of your quote.

Hi, Tori! Ok, then it would go like:

Kazô — Hey, go to the factory (and get the proofs ready)! (to an employee)
Asako — Second floor, right? (It is implicit that she is going there to get the proofs, right? Is she asking permission to go or just confirming where the the proofreading room is?
 

karenk

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Well, this text will probably make me ask many questions, here:

鶴巻町で電車を降り、魚屋の角を曲ると、磯田印刷所へは半町ばかりであった。魚屋の看板に色の剥げた大鯛が一匹と、同じように古ぼけた笹が添えて描かれている。そのように貧しげなごたごたした家並にそこばかり大きい硝子戸を挾まれて、磯田印刷所がある。震災で、神田からここへ移って来たのだった。

鶴巻町 Do this neighborhood is called Tsurumakichô or can I write just Tsurumaki?
半町 This is a lenght measurement, right? The print shop is located about 50m after turning the corner of the fish shop.
 

karenk

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Could anyone clarify the last part of this passage:
 磯田は近年激しい神経痛に悩まされ、駿河台の脳神経専門家の許(もと)で絶えず電気療法を受けていた。朝子などには、慢性神経痛だと云った。実際の病気は決してそんな単純なものではなかりそうなことは、知らぬものないこの男の家庭生活のひどさを思っても推測されるのであった

For me it says that the explanation for Isoda's ilness/problem, was not a simple neuralgia for anyone who knew the violent/terrible environment of his houselhold.

Is it too off the mark?
 
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Toritoribe

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It is implicit that she is going there to get the proofs, right? Is she asking permission to go or just confirming where the the proofreading room is?
Right.
She is asking permission to go. She must know where the proofreading room is since she no doubt goes to the printing office repeatedly, not the first time.

鶴巻町 Do this neighborhood is called Tsurumakichô or can I write just Tsurumaki?
I think the former is more common.

半町 This is a lenght measurement, right? The print shop is located about 50m after turning the corner of the fish shop.
That's right.

Could anyone clarify the last part of this passage:
 磯田は近年激しい神経痛に悩まされ、駿河台の脳神経専門家の許(もと)で絶えず電気療法を受けていた。朝子などには、慢性神経痛だと云った。実際の病気は決してそんな単純なものではなかりそうなことは、知らぬものないこの男の家庭生活のひどさを思っても推測されるのであった

For me it says that the explanation for Isoda's ilness/problem, was not a simple neuralgia for anyone who knew the violent/terrible environment of his houselhold.

Is it too off the mark?
知らぬものない is a classical way of saying 知らない人はいない, meaning "everybody knows/well-known", and it modifies この男の家庭生活のひどさ.
 

karenk

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知らぬものない is a classical way of saying 知らない人はいない, meaning "everybody knows/well-known", and it modifies この男の家庭生活のひどさ.

Then it would be more like: In fact, his illness didn't seem to be something so simple considering the terrible environment of his household which everybody was aware of.

But what is implicit here? Violence?
 
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karenk

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Questions, so many questions! Here:

「須田さんその後どうしていらっしゃいます?」
 矢崎は、厭な顔をして、
「この頃出かけないから」
と低く答えた。
「ここ罷(や)めることは、もう決ったんですか」
「決ったでしょう」

Asako is asking about how Suda is doing after what has happened and Yazaki answer that he has no ideia because Suda is not going out lately, is that it? And here:

 さっきの小娘のことを皮肉に思い合わせ、朝子は、
「もう浅野さんはおやめですか」
と訊いた。浅野というのが駿河台の医者であった。ふっと、老人らしい眼付で窓外の景色を眺めていた磯田は、
「ああ、いやまだです」
と元気な声と共に、眼を朝子に移した。
「実は今日もこれから出かけにゃならんのです……浅野御存知ですか……遠藤伯なんぞあの人を大分信任のようですな」
 そして、半ば独語のように、
その縁故で、死んだ津村二郎なんぞ、金を出させたって云う話もあるが……」

もう浅野さんはおやめですか Asako is asking if Isoda has stopped seen his doctor, right?

その縁故で、死んだ津村二郎なんぞ、金を出させたって云う話もあるが... Would その縁故で imply that Tsumura gave/spend money with this doctor because he trusted him like Earl Endo did?
 

karenk

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Wow, this text is killing me, but now I can't stop! 😂

This is dialogue between two workers:

 朝子のいる室を板戸で区切った隣室で、二人の職工がこんなことを云っている声が聞えた。
「――陰気くさいが、柳なんぞ、あれで、陽(よう)のもんだってね」
「そうかねえ」
「昔何とか云う名高い絵描きが幽霊の絵をたのまれたんだとさ。明盲(あきめくら)にしたり、いろいろやるが凄さが足りない。そこで考えたにゃ、物は何でも陰陽のつり合が大切だ。幽霊は陰のものだから陽のものを一つとり合わせて見ようてんで、柳を描いたら、巧いこと行ったんだって」
「ふうむ」
「――死ぬと変りますね、男と女だって、生きてるときは男が陽で女が陰だが、土左衛門ね、ほら、きっと男が下向きで、女は上向きだろう。――陰陽が代って、ああなるんだとさ」
「……じゃあお辞儀なんか何故陰の形するんだろう……」
 工場らしい話題で、朝子は興味をもち、返事を待った。けれども、何故辞儀に陰の形をするのか、職工はうまい説明が見当らなかったらしく、やや暫くして静かに、
「そりゃ私にも解らないねえ」

They started talking about the willows, saying that despite all the gloominess associated to them, they still have a positive side. Then, about the painter, they are saying that there is a balance between positive-negative elements in everything, just a blind man was not terrifying enough, but by adding a willow to the painting, the desired effect was reached. After that, they talk about women and men, they say that when women and men die drowned, the positive-negative polarites change. Now, about the bow 辞儀なんか何故陰の形するんだろう, could I translate it as "then why a bow has the format of a minus sign?"

陰陽 means negative-positive/yin-yang/shadow-light, right? Can I play with all these meanings in this passage?
 

Majestic

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I think you can have some translator's license with 陰陽. I would try to stick with yin and yang. Yin and yang are known in the west, and it stops you from having to veer too far from the source material. I think the bowing comment refers to the downward-facing posture being inward, convex, away from the light, and so it has a yin connotation. If you use the imagery of a minus-sign, it feels like an opportunity for the reader to be slightly confused. (But yes it might be a difficult phrase to shoehorn elegantly into English).

In the first passage it talks about a famous painter who was tasked with painting a ghost. He traid several things, but the painting wasn't coming out right. It wasn't powerful enough until he put the willow in it, because - according to the speaker - the negative connotations of the painting only truly came out when the painter added the positively-charged willow to it. He needed the positive image of the willow to fully bring out the powerful negativity of the ghost. Of course, this sounds a bit spurious, a bit like the guy is talking about something he only has superficial knowledge about - in other words, like any conversation you might hear on a factory floor.

Also, in the following passage it doesn't mention drowning. It just says men die facing down, and women die facing up. (Of course, if they are talking about it elsewhere, it could be a reference to that).

Anyway, its a passage that shows well the pseudo-intellectual banter of the factory.
 

Toritoribe

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But what is implicit here? Violence?
I think it's more likely この男の家庭生活のだらしなさ, such like an affair "a young girl has run out of his room", where 朝子 has just seen.

「須田さんその後どうしていらっしゃいます?」
 矢崎は、厭な顔をして、
「この頃出かけないから」
と低く答えた。
「ここ罷(や)めることは、もう決ったんですか」
「決ったでしょう」

Asako is asking about how Suda is doing after what has happened and Yazaki answer that he has no ideia because Suda is not going out lately, is that it?
It could be so. Another idea is この頃(彼とは飲みに/遊びに)出かけないから. I think if he meant "Suda is not going out lately", この頃出かけないようだから would be more natural.

もう浅野さんはおやめですか Asako is asking if Isoda has stopped seen his doctor, right?
Right.

その縁故で、死んだ津村二郎なんぞ、金を出させたって云う話もあるが... Would その縁故で imply that Tsumura gave/spend money with this doctor because he trusted him like Earl Endo did?
I think it's 死んだ津村二郎なんぞ、(遠藤伯に)金を出させたって云う話もあるが, thus, Tsumura got money from Earl Endo.

just a blind man was not terrifying enough
明盲 is not "just a blind man". It means a man who looks like he can see, but actually can't. I think it refers to an open eyed ghost.

they talk about women and men, they say that when women and men die drowned, the positive-negative polarites change.
You might already realize this, but the speaker is talking about the position of drowned bodies. A male body is floating on his belly, and a female body is floating on her back.
 

karenk

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Thank you , Tori!

明盲 is not "just a blind man". It means a man who looks like he can see, but actually can't. I think it refers to an open eyed ghost.

Yes, I think I will have to specify that it is the spirit/ghost of "a blind man". :unsure:

You might already realize this, but the speaker is talking about the position of drowned bodies. A male body is floating on his belly, and a female body is floating on her back.

Yes, I did. Do you think that using yin-yang is better than playing with negative-positive/shadow-light?
 
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karenk

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Hi, I could figure out what Asako meant here:
「――なかなか足が速いんだな。電車を降りると、後姿がどうもそうらしいから、追い越してやろうと思ったけれど、とうとう駄目だった」
電車が一つ違っちゃ無理だわ

Ohira says that she walks fast, the saw her from behind and wanted to reach her but couldn't. I suppose that he saw her at some station and she walked fast not to lose her train.
 

Toritoribe

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Do you think that using yin-yang is better than playing with negative-positive/shadow-light?
I agree with Majestic-san. Yin-yang would be better.

Hi, I could figure out what Asako meant here:
「――なかなか足が速いんだな。電車を降りると、後姿がどうもそうらしいから、追い越してやろうと思ったけれど、とうとう駄目だった」
電車が一つ違っちゃ無理だわ

Ohira says that she walks fast, the saw her from behind and wanted to reach her but couldn't. I suppose that he saw her at some station and she walked fast not to lose her train.
She waited for a train at 伝通院, thus, she didn't hurry up before getting on the train, and 電車を降りると shows that he is talking about the action after he (and also she) got off the train.

I think she meant that they rode on different trains by 電車が一つ違う. The line they used is a streetcar/tram, so it's possible that he could find her even if she rode on the previous train of the one he rode on.
 

karenk

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Thank you, ?Tori!

I found it a bit confusing, too much to infer... :confused:

Here: 大平は、その通りをずっと墓地を抜けた処に、年とった雇女と暮しているのであった。

I searched the word and found やとな as a party companion, at the time, a sort of not registered/official geisha, it it so? Or it is just a maid? Because later Asako says that he should marry and I suppose that they were not lovers.

「まあ、お互に手に負えない従兄妹を持ったと諦めるんだね」と云った。

Here, my take: Let's stop behaving like "annoying cousins" (cousins who like provoking each other).
 

Toritoribe

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I searched the word and found やとな as a party companion, at the time, a sort of not registered/official geisha, it it so? Or it is just a maid?
It's the latter, just a maid.

「まあ、お互に手に負えない従兄妹を持ったと諦めるんだね」と云った。

Here, my take: Let's stop behaving like "annoying cousins" (cousins who like provoking each other).
諦める means "to resign to/accept the situation" there.
 
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