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Miyamoto Yuriko

karenk

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Okay, sorry if I keep rehashing this passage, but I would like to know your opinions about who said what because sometimes I have a hard time figuring out this kind of thing:

1. Passage: 
 一円本の話が出て、それに矢崎も加わった。
「娘がやかましく云うんで、小学生全集をとっているんですが、一体あんなものはどの位儲かるもんでしょうな……」
「社でも何か一つとってくれないかな、そうすると僕たち助かっちゃうんだが」
「矢崎さん、いかが? それ位のこと出来ませんか」By the context, I would say that it is still Ida talking, but it could also be Asako...
「さあ」
 伊田が、
「金欠か」
と呟いた。
 いきなり朝子が、
「ああ、矢崎さん、お引越し、どうなりました」

2. passage:
ステーションにサークルの世話役の人が出迎えてくれ、牛肉屋をやっている○○君の店へ行ったら、そこは下諏訪警察の近くだし、「ここじゃあないよ。大通りから右へあっちを廻ってと云ったろう?」と云うことだった。今度は番傘をさして雪の中を案内の人について、諏訪神社近くの大きい料理屋へ行った。廊下をいく曲りかしたところにドアつきの小部屋がある。西洋風に壁で一方だけに窓がひらき、大炬燵がきってある。そういう部屋に落付くと、直ぐ○○君がやって来て「ここは私の同情者(シンパ)でしてね、重宝ですよ」と笑った。

I suppose the 世話役の人 is a man by the way he talks, right? And how do you interpret 店へ行ったら、そこは下諏訪警察の近くだし? Does it mean that the place was actually close to the police station or that it seemed so to her?

Thank you!
 

Toritoribe

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「矢崎さん、いかが? それ位のこと出来ませんか」By the context, I would say that it is still Ida talking, but it could also be Asako...
It's Asako. いかが?is a female way of saying there.

I suppose the 世話役の人 is a man by the way he talks, right?
世話役 means "manager (of the organization)."

And how do you interpret 店へ行ったら、そこは下諏訪警察の近くだし? Does it mean that the place was actually close to the police station or that it seemed so to her?
The former.
 

karenk

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Hi! What would the meaning of 云いわけ役 be in the passage below? Motoko doesn't want to be used as an excuse or she doesn't want to be in the role of someone who gives the excuses? Thank you!

「どうでもあなたの考える通りにすればいいが、私は、あなたのおっ母さんたちに妙な云いわけ役をさせられることだけは真平御免だからね。それだけは前もっておことわりだから。帰らないんなら帰らないでいいから、はっきり手紙でも何でも書いといてもらおう」
 

Toritoribe

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It's the latter. She doesn't want to be in the role of someone who gives Asako's mother her(= Asako's) excuses, i.e., she refuses to explain Asako's mother why Asako won't return home.
 

karenk

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It's the latter. She doesn't want to be in the role of someone who gives Asako's mother her(= Asako's) excuses, i.e., she refuses to explain Asako's mother why Asako won't return home.
Thank you!
 

karenk

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Hi!

Should I translate をもって here as "we were at the house my parents have at the beach with/taking our work" or "due to our work/because we had work to do there"?

わたしたちは仕事をもって海岸にある親の家に行っていて、自分ひとり帰って来たところであった。
 

Toritoribe

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I think it's the former. If the latter, 仕事があって would be used.
 

karenk

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Hi!

Could I translate 「今更みたいに!」as "Even at this late hour"? Asako arrived late and I interpret it as her contentment to see Origa.

階下に住んでいる家具職人の窓から洩れて来るぼんやりした光をたよりに一段一段のぼって行って、ドアをあけ、天井の低くかぶさった小部屋の灯の下に白いブラウス姿でいる血色のいいオリガの顔を見たら、朝子は思わず、
「ああ来てよかった!」
 そう云って、オリガの堅い力のある手を握った。
「今更みたいに!」
 オリガは笑いながら、テーブルのむこうの素子を顧みた。
「私のところは、いつ来ても、来てよかったところじゃありませんか、ねえ、モトコさん」
 

Toritoribe

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今更 doesn't mean "the late time of the day" there. The nuance is that it is a common/normal thing Asako comes to Olga, so her words ああ来てよかった! is not like what she says again now. 改めて言わなくてもいい makes more sense, maybe?
 

karenk

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今更 doesn't mean "the late time of the day" there. The nuance is that it is a common/normal thing Asako comes to Olga, so her words ああ来てよかった! is not like what she says again now. 改めて言わなくてもいい makes more sense, maybe?
So, Asako would be saying something like: "Ah, I'm so glad I came!" followed by: "That goes without saying/it is something I don't need to mention", right? I had never seen 今更 used this way. And how would you interpret the 心の中まで調べずにはいられないような視線 in the passage below this dialogue? Would it mean that the way she looked at Asako betrayed her indifferent behavior?


「私のところは、いつ来ても、来てよかったところじゃありませんか、ねえ、モトコさん」
 素子は何とも云わず煙草をくゆらせ、しかし朝子が現れたときの最初の一瞥でやはりその心の中まで調べずにはいられないような視線を走らせたのであった。朝子は、オリガとあれこれ世間話をした。オリガは勤人で、その小部屋には寝台と一つの本棚と箪笥とその上に飾られた何枚かの写真とが、僅かの家具類と共にあるだけであった。そんな生活の道具だてのなかに一種の居心地よさがこもっていて、さっぱりした住みての人柄が感じられた。
 
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Toritoribe

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So, Asako would be saying something like: "Ah, I'm so glad I came!" followed by: "That goes without saying/it is something I don't need to mention", right?
今更みたいに! is Origa's words. (Sorry, I misread her name as オルガ.) She said it in a meaning 今更そんなこと言わなくても(いいのに).

And how would you interpret the 心の中まで調べずにはいられないような視線 in the passage below this dialogue? Would it mean that the way she looked at Asako betrayed her indifferent behavior?
I think it's just the way it's written. She wants to know Asako's real thoughts.
 

karenk

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今更みたいに! is Origa's words. (Sorry, I misread her name as オルガ.) She said it in a meaning 今更そんなこと言わなくても(いいのに).
Yes, I think it is a nickname for Olga, I had never heard it as well, but I saw that some women called Olga are nicknamed "Origa". So it was Origa's words! Thank you!

I think it's just the way it's written. She wants to know Asako's real thoughts.
Hum, then 心の中まで調べずにはいられないような視線 boils down to "she gave Asako an inquisitive look"...
 
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karenk

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Hi, does the だの below is the same as the ~だの~だの form meaning "and" (a bank and an office building)? And could this 清掃 be understood as a "purge" in the organization of their administration?

街角の大きい銀行だの役所の屋根の破風には、その経営の中で機構の清掃が行われていることを市民に告げるプラカードが目立ち始めた。

Thank you!
 

karenk

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So... I'm trying do figure out what 心がどこかへかたまっている means below, could I say that Asako had the docility and kindness of the sky above a human being (herself) whose heart/mind was somewhere else?


朝子には心がどこかへかたまっている人間の上の空のおとなしさ、優しさがあって、素子は本当に言葉通りの気遣いで云った。
 

Toritoribe

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おとなしさ would be more likely quietness as opposed to activeness.
上の空 is a set phrase, meaning vacant/absent‐minded.
人間 doesn't refer to herself, but people who are in that state. Thus, Asako has 上の空のおとなしさ、優しさ which is peculiar to 心がどこかへかたまっている人間.
 

karenk

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おとなしさ would be more likely quietness as opposed to activeness.
上の空 is a set phrase, meaning vacant/absent‐minded.
人間 doesn't refer to herself, but people who are in that state. Thus, Asako has 上の空のおとなしさ、優しさ which is peculiar to 心がどこかへかたまっている人間.
So, it would be something like: Asako has the absent-minded quietness, the kindness, of someone whose heart/mind is somewhere else?
 

karenk

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I'm also having a lot of difficult trying to break down this last passage.

今帰ること、それは朝子にとっては、生活への出発とも思えるのであった。ここから出発してゆく。そのかげには愛する弟のいのちをも裏づけているここの三年よ、もし、自分をここに止めておこうとする好意があるならば、きっと自分がこれから起きたりころんだりしつつ、なおそれを愛し価値あるものにして行こうとする誠意をもよみしてくれるだろう。

今帰ること、それは朝子にとっては、生活への出発とも思えるのであった。Going back, to Asako, could be said to mean departing to (a new) life.
ここから出発してゆく Departing from here.

Now does そのかげに refer to the place she is leaving? Does it express the idea that her brother's life is behind/in the background supporting the time she spent in Russia? Those 3 years? And does ここに止めておこうとする好意があるならば is still refering to the previous idea? If there is some affection she has to put an end to (or would it be in the sense of giving up?) here. Or could 好意 mean the favor/proposal she received to stay in Russia?
What does なおそれ is refering to? Her brother, time spent in Russia, the affection?
Who would this "reader" she is refering to be when she says よみしてくれる? Readers in general? Or to the person whose favor she gave up?
 

Toritoribe

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So, it would be something like: Asako has the absent-minded quietness, the kindness, of someone whose heart/mind is somewhere else?
Right.

Now does そのかげに refer to the place she is leaving? Does it express the idea that her brother's life is behind/in the background supporting the time she spent in Russia? Those 3 years?
その refers to ここの三年, and ここ is Moscow/Russia.
かげ would be more likely background/story behind it.
裏づけている is closer to "to substantiate". 価値を見出す makes more sense, maybe?
よ at the end of the clause shows that she is talking to "the three years she has been spending here" in 擬人法, like "this three years, if you(=this three years) have affection that I can stay here (as she already got at the beginning of this novel)..."

And does ここに止めておこうとする好意があるならば is still refering to the previous idea? If there is some affection she has to put an end to (or would it be in the sense of giving up?) here. Or could 好意 mean the favor/proposal she received to stay in Russia?
It's the latter, as I wrote above.

What does なおそれ is refering to? Her brother, time spent in Russia, the affection?
それ refers to 自分がこれから起きたりころんだりすること.

Who would this "reader" she is refering to be when she says よみしてくれる? Readers in general? Or to the person whose favor she gave up?
よみする is 嘉する, meaning "to recognize the value and praise", not 読みする.

 

karenk

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そのかげには愛する弟のいのちをも裏づけているここの三年よ、もし、自分をここに止めておこうとする好意があるならば、きっと自分がこれから起きたりころんだりしつつ、なおそれを愛し価値あるものにして行こうとする誠意をもよみしてくれるだろう。

Okay, so, I know this is bad/confuse English, but the general idea woul be something in this line:

You, these three years I've spent here, in your background is the life of my brother you've given value to/substantiated, if there is a favor/a kindness I'm to give up here, you will appraise the sincerity with which I will try to love and value my falling downs and getting ups (that will certainly occur).
 

karenk

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So, do you have any idea concerning what it is mentioned in this passage: 女は「女らしく」婦人代議士クラブというのをこしらえた。女らしく、お茶を立てて飲んだりしたが、政党間の利害は女らしさにも現実に作用して、こわれてしまった。

Did the first japanese women who were elected to the Japanese Diet use to host teas? Did they have a little "feminine club" within the Diet? Or am I being to literal here?
 
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