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Japan IN Asia VS Japan AND Asia

yes me too.i belive that japanese is greater than Chinese.
regards ^^
 
That's not what I meant. What do you mean greater? Every language is great. I wouldn't use such comparisons. If I like language A, I don't say it's better than language B. It's people's interests and necessities making them choose one or the other. Anyway, the Chinese language can't be called non-great, if you know what I mean.
 
There is an interesting artcile about Kanji (or Hanji) in Sankei Newspaper.
http://sankei.jp.msn.com/culture/academic/080820/acd0808200759005-n2.htm

It says ... There are some 10,000 adopted words in China from foreign countries, mostly the words such as Grape, Budda, etc., from Iran and India, through silk road. But Some 10% adopted words were introduced from Japan during the past century.

In other words, Japanese-invented Kanji account for some 10% of modern Chinese Hanji because Chinese tried to learn the West via Japan for the past century.

Interestingly, official name of China - People's Republic of China - can be written in
窶吮??窶ーテ伉人窶督ッ窶ケツ、ヒ彗ツ坂? in Hanji or Kanji, but all Kanji except China (窶吮??窶ーテ? is Made-in-Japan. In China, there were no "concepts" about "People" and "Republic".

Below is some of Made-in-Japan Hanji (or Kanji in Japanese).
 
Words based on Japanese Kanji have even more affected Korean words in Hanja (=Kanji, Hanzi) when they were in use, they are written phonetically now using Hangul. So Chinese Kanji travelled from China to Japan and Korea. Some words have been created in Japan (+ a small number of pure Japanese Kanji) travelled back to China and Korea. Normally, Japanese words are transformed in Chinese to use the current version of Hanzi and pronounced according to the pinyin rules in Mandarin, so from your example:

For example, the original Japanese 図書館 (としょかん - toshokan) "library" becomes 图书馆 (simplified) or 圖書館 (traditional) túshūguǎn. Note that the 1st character is different in both simplified and traditional Chinese and pronunciation is not the same.

Taiwan uses more Japanese words than mainland China, some are only colloquial, based on pronunciation, not Kanji/Hanzi:

For example, some colloquialisms in Taiwan:
歐吉桑 (ōujísāng) - お爺さん (ojīsan) "uncle"
歐巴桑 (ōubāsāng) - お婆さん (obāsan) "aunt"

As not deviate completely away from the topic, Japan, China (+Korea, Vietnam) are not culturally dissimilar, if they reconcile their differences, it's better for them and better for everybody. Not meaning to forget the past but get over it and move on.
 
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Interesting, isn't it?

The Sankei Shimbun article also says ... Made-in-Japan 不倫 (adultery) is also adopted in China.

Sorry for the bad influence from Japan.
 
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lol Anatoli,i'm shy haha...
Astroboy said:
Really???? But I'm sure that "Hentai" will be included in Oxford Dictionary soon or later.
lol i expect that too,like "Connechewa" and " Aregatou " and " Ohayou " ,i use Japanese words everyday,i like japanese more than English ..
 
I think that grapefruit, is being Pan-Asian.
Japan has no need to get along better with Asia than the West.

I have read nothing in this thread to make me think otherwise.
 
I think that grapefruit, is being Pan-Asian.
Japan has no need to get along better with Asia than the West.

I have read nothing in this thread to make me think otherwise.

i doubt that.japanese have their traditions and a great culture..and japan is not in the west it's in Asia !
japan has to get better and better with Asia then with the west (i think it's enough with the west currently ).

Regards
 
Japan has no need to get along better with Asia than the West.

I have read nothing in this thread to make me think otherwise.
That's because the discussion slipped into a different direction. There are always benefits of getting along with neighbours and non-neighbours. Economically, Japan could have a huge benefit if it got along with China and, of course, if China got along with Japan. The current trend shows it's gradually going that way. Look at long time enemies turned friends: France-Germany or Germany-Russia. The social and cultural benefit is far more important. East Asian countries could compete with Hollywood in producing the best movies, with Europe making film and music festivals. All the rough edges disappear when there is a lot of communication.

However, your post itself sounds anti-Asian. Why is that? Are you angry at China or some other Asian country?
 
However, your post itself sounds anti-Asian. Why is that? Are you angry at China or some other Asian country?

I don't think his post sounds like anti-China/Asia. He just wanted to tell ....

1. JAPAN is JAPAN, being not a part of anything.
2. Geographic location is not important as the world is being much smaller.
3. Culture & language is not important, either, as it's mosaic even in Asia.
4. Economic integration is already completed.
5. It is more than enough from the Japanese perspective.

But I don't know Chinese perspective.
 
Any of the 5 are subjective and show personal preferences, be it normal people or governments. Are you talking on behalf of all the Japanese? Or is it, at least, the most popular view?

I am not Chinese and I don't live in China but I am glad their perspective is changing to be more open-minded. A good sign is that they are improving or, at least, trying to improve relationships with their neighbours - Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, Russia, India, etc.
 
Internet Opinion Poll - Realtime Yoron Chos.net indicates below:
http://www.yoronchousa.net/result/1445

About East Asia Union


First 5 lines = Positive.
But all below = Negative.

Although it is not a result of all Japanese, I believe it reflects majority voice.
 
My take on relationship of Japan & Chinas & Koreas,sums up in one word ' pendulum '.

latest example ...

The number of South Korean people rating Japan as "the most- disliked country" has increased to 57 percent from last year's 38 percent, the JoongAng Ilbo newspaper said Monday, citing its survey results.

The results clearly showed anti-Japanese sentiment has intensified in South Korea since Japan decided in July to assert its claim to sovereignty over a pair of rocky islets that Seoul controls.

http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=6296
 
Thanks, I will read a bit more later, as my Japanese is poor. That's sad but what can you do? A partnership takes at least two, if at least, one is not willing, then it won't happen. China has also a lot to learn to deal with neighbours and learn to be nice and attractive.

The Japanese person I am chatting with is learning Chinese and talks about growing interest to modern China in Japan. It may a matter of time. I am Russian, I am even more saddened that Russia-Japan relationship is not changing much for better.
 

Very good example. Probably the same here about S Korea.

My take on relationship of Japan & Chinas & Koreas, sums up in one sentence 'Leave us alone'.
 
It seems the majority of Japanese oppose becoming part of Asian worrying communist China becoming a dominant player in the group, This is understandable and similar to what the western media subscribe for in fear of a non-democratic country holding ever-increasing power in the world.

Also, it seems Japanese are willing to be part of the Asian group if they could dominate the group. I thought Japanese people are good at working in a group. To become a good group member, you have to learn how to compromise and try to understand other members.
 
To me, Numbers 2 and 3 do not fit together well. When a Japanese leaves his/her little islands and gets into the world community, it is easy to be isolated and misunderstood in the world dominated by the West if the person does not corporate with other Asians. At this moment, the world is not an ideal place as we wished to be. Racism in both strong and weak forms are rampant (since prejudice by nature stems from the strategy of stereotyping that is indispensable for humans to process an enormous amount of information). You feel much comfortable and easy to be with Koreans and Chinese in such situations even if you are aware of their national sentiments toward Japan.

For instance, westerners might not understand the craziness of Japanese women trying their best to maintain their skin white. Even if you try to explain how Japanese view the issue, this looks incomprehensible to the value system held in the west, because western women try hard to look tan. You feel more comfortable to have Koreans, Chinese, Vietnamese, Indonesians, and other Asians on your side. This is a small example and its not even related to the issue of racism.
 
be isolated and misunderstood in the world dominated by the West if the person does not corporate with other Asians.

Incorporating Japan with Asia (China+Korea) often makes things worse as Japan does not share the same value.

Racism in both strong and weak forms are rampant (since prejudice by nature stems from the strategy of stereotyping that is indispensable for humans to process an enormous amount of information).

Personally I have never experienced any racisim overseas, while we (Japanese) may hve been told as racist. Meantime your point may be your personal experince as you must not be a Japanese. But that's none of my business as I am Japanese.

You feel much comfortable and easy to be with Koreans and Chinese in such situations even if you are aware of their national sentiments toward Japan.

To be honest, the other way around. How can you say so? Any source? or is that your wish?

As far as I know, their national sentiments toward Japan is based on their history fabrication. In fact, After WWII, Koreans are divided into North and South, and Chinese had experienced civil war & so-called cultural revolution, and still living in tyranny. IF they were part of Japan, they must have been happier than today, I think.


Interesting point of view, but it is likely that you try to find something common rahter than different, while I try to find something different rather than somthing common.

But as you can see from the above opinion poll, people in Japan do not see any importance about Asia Union, meaning that people want to keep distance from neighbours. So you better not think of Japan.
 

Really? I have never heard about such things. But sounds interesting. Are there any source?
 
Really ? I have never heard about such things. But sounds interesting. Are there any source?


In her own words ...


I had spent the last whole year to survive in Amsterdam, the Netherlands.LOL I had my life lessons there, now I feel my experiences, even including some hardships, became my strength. I can give sympathy for the ppl who are confronted with difficulties especially like racism and language barrier.

下のリンクで私がオランダで感じた事が読めます。今の私の原点です。

今日はETですごくひさしぶりにGARYという先生に当たりました。私は全く覚えてなくて"Nice to meet you" というご挨拶から始ったのですが、彼は私をしっかり覚えていて"I met you before、 and you're the girl who hated the country." と言われてしまいました。今オランダがとても好きな私としてはかなり悲しかったです。"I went through many things there, but now I love the country and appreciate everything happened to me."反論はしてみましたが、インテリで回転の速い彼には突っ込まれる一方・・・

本当に引っ越して最初の頃は馴染めなくてNAIVEでした。You can't speak Dutch, then why you came to Holland? " と言われながら手続きをしてもらったり・・同じオランダ語を話せないという理由で配管工さんが故障箇所のチェックもせずに帰ってしまおうとしたり(これは口論になって最終的にはチェックしてもらいました。その時点で1週間お湯や暖房はストップしてました。)・・・・お釣りを全部コイン(25枚以上)で渡されて30ユーロ程騙されてたり・・他にも家電の修理で嘘を立て続けに何回もつかれたり本当に色々ありました。子供達に石を投げられた事もあります。彼らの親に抗議したら、「今日は暑いから皆CRAZYなのよ。」と言われ期待してた謝罪や子供への注意は聞かれませんでした。

もうプライドがズタズタで、普通に考えたら気が付く簡単な事も頭に浮かびませんでした。ただ自分の存在感を責めるばかりでした。

本当に一部の人達だけがこういう行動をするし、こういう行動の背景にはきっと何か理由がある。アジア系の人と間にトラウマ的な何かがあったかもしれない。オランダ語圏で公用語が話せないのも責められて当たり前の事。何事にも慣れないギコチナイ物のやり取りが人をイライラさせる事。それにこれは私だけにではなくきっと他の人にも同様にされる事。外見が目立つ分色んな人の目につく事。無知な分付け込まれる隙がいっぱいある事。

それにこれらの事はどこの国でも、起こること。日本でもきっとあるに違いありません。ただ自分がローカルなので気が付かないだけ・・・

(後で友人ができてから分かった事ですが、同様の事は他の日本人居住者にも多々起こる事のようです。ただ運の悪さからか私は引越し後、短期に色々重なって体験してしまいました。)

気がつくべき所がいっぱいありました。
でもその時はただ痛みで気持ちがいっぱいいっぱいでした。

オランダの方の中には歴史的背景から日本人が嫌いな方もいらっしゃいます。あと国民性が非常に率直なので色んな感情をすぐ表に出される方が多いです。外国人による犯罪率の上昇などから、オランダの移民問題は結構争論になっていてそちらの方面から嫌悪感を持たれる方もいらっしゃいます。全体的には誰にでもフレンドリーで率直でのんびりしたいい国だと思います。日本でも同様な差別がたまに見られますがローカルである私達は問題の繊細さに気が付かない事も多いので、私にはいい気付きの機会になりました。
 
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