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Japan as EU Member State

Japan as EU Member State?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 5 17.2%
  • No!

    Votes: 23 79.3%
  • I don't know!

    Votes: 1 3.4%

  • Total voters
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What is the goal of the EU? Is it to become more powerful than US (and it is already the case)? The actual president of EU is Nicolas Sarkozy and this Union has a big power, that's all I actually know about EU.


If you want to know more about the EU you can start here.

The official European Union Government Youtube channel:
http://de.youtube.com/user/eutube

And some informational clip about the EU:
 

Adulado

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The EU is a new world order under guise, that's absolutely correct. There is only 1 reason why. People fear what they don't understand. The truth is that the majority of human beings, perhaps 95-98% don't understand politics, laws and much more about this world. People simply don't take the time to learn about these issues. So to suddenly find out something new about the EU might be a big shock to many people. Such as the creation of a common EU army. That's why the EU founding fathers said that everything the EU does must be done in secret or quietly enough as to not to alarm the people. You could say that human beings are simply scared by change.

The poster I showed is the official poster that was banned because of public protest, doesn't it hint you something like a kingdom that defies God?

"Just as you saw that the feet and toes were partly of baked clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom; yet it will have some of the strength of iron in it, even as you saw iron mixed with clay. As the toes were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay."

Daniel 2:41~43

I think EU is the kingdom of iron and clay.
 

Clawn

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To be perfectly honest, I do not know of, and have not been able to find, members of the European Union who are not a part of or connected to the European continent.

However, on the matter of Japan's entry into the European Union: I find it rather odd seeing as Japan never existed as a colony or became part of a European nation. I just think it's rather silly-akin to the United States offering state-hood to New Zealand. Now I'm not saying the advantages of inclusion in such a group are something to be thrown away as trivial, but I simply feel that they are being presented under a name that would imply a relationship that simply does not exist at this time.

However the simple fact that membership implies a European background makes it hard to imagine Japan as a member. In terms of relations to Europe, perhaps former colonies, like those nice chaps over in the Americas, should be considered first? What I could see is an Oceanic Union, in which members must simply be bordering a major body of water, or perhaps an Alliance of Democratic Capitalist Powers. 🙂
 
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Back to the first question, will Japan ever become a member of the European Union?

No, never. This part of the world is not rich of oil wells.

Most European members think that the Europe Union must not take on new members for a while. We first have to learn to get on with the members we have already. East Europe is already very different from West Europe. This Continent so destroyed by centuries of wars among themselves, is now on the right way to try to become united. From the quick tempered Greeks up to the calm tempered Swedes, we still have to learn a lot from each other.

I wish you all a great 2009!!
 

Astroboy

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Back to the first question, will Japan ever become a member of the European Union?
No, never. This part of the world is not rich of oil wells.
Most European members think that the Europe Union must not take on new members for a while. We first have to learn to get on with the members we have already. East Europe is already very different from West Europe. This Continent so destroyed by centuries of wars among themselves, is now on the right way to try to become united. From the quick tempered Greeks up to the calm tempered Swedes, we still have to learn a lot from each other.
I wish you all a great 2009!!

YES. I agree. EU better stay in so-called Europe.

Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year. 🙂
 

Astroboy

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Report reveals pension schemes will collapse

It is claimed tens of thousands of workers could have their pensions wiped out over the next six months.

A confidential memo to Government from the Social and Family Affairs Minister Mary Hanafin reveals a total pension deficit of between €20 and €30 billion is expected.

This confidential document, seen by a Sunday newspaper, spells out in no uncertain terms that a number of high profile pension schemes are expected to collapse.

That is three times the level of capital needed to bail out Irish banks.

There are currently around 100,000 schemes in Ireland - two thirds of which are defined benefit ones, where the employer bears the investment risk.

More than 90 per cent of these are expected to report a deficit to the Pensions Board.

The memo predicts the public collapse of a number of schemes over the next six months and warns that it would be impossible for the Government to pick up the shortfall because of budgetary constraints - no matter how strong the pressure might be.

Report reveals pension schemes will collapse

I assume that concerns over pension schemes have been spreading across EU as EU member countries face the same financial difficulty as Ireland. However, EU government cannot adopt turnkey solution being valid for all member countries because all EU members hold different troubles from others.

I suggest EU government to dissolve "EU" & "Euro" in order to let member countries tackle their own troubles country-by-country basis. 🙂
 

CIGARMANIAC

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Crackpot thread

-The EU has many Member States and territories who are not part of the European continet. Such as, Turkey (candidate), Cyprus, Cannary Islands and some South American and African territories.
-The Japanese share the EU's core believes and values, such as democracy, rule of law and human rights just to name a few.
-The European Union citizens and Parliament are very keen to hear the Japanese view on this.
==========

Your information is absolutely correct - and Iceland is a member of the
African Union, Botswana is a charter member of MERCOSUR ( a South American trading bloc) and North Korea is a valued member of NATO. France is also applying to join the Commonwealth and the Vatican is on the threshold of joining the Muslim League.

Japanese democracy? Of course! Japan has a thousand year-old democratic republican tradition of egalitarian peasant rule!

EURO citizens have a great interest in Japan joining a EUROPEAN body. I understand there will be a referendum in every EU country about this and huge demonstrations, both pro and con, are taking place at this very moment.


I suggest "European Union" to consider China for new EU member as an alternative idea instead of Japan. 😌

Yes, indeed. China, an emerging superpower, will gladly join a geographically distant bloc of rivals in order to meekly submit to Western Hegemony.

Thanks for pointing all this out!
 
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YES. I agree. EU better stay in so-called Europe.
Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year. 🙂




Just for the record. I understand many people have no idea about the EU, but ANY European politician will tell you that the EU's best and strongest foreign policy is enlargement. The EU Neighborhood Policy is about bringing states in line with European standards for eventually joining up with the EU. Look at the Mediterranean Union, a new union created by the EU. It incorporates the EU 27 Member States and 17 African and Middle Easters states. Is this the EU staying in the EU? No! This is the EU expanding across the whole world.


And the Treaty of Lisbon is just a power grab by the bigger countries. It is not totally necessary, but it does not matter to me. I am from one of those bigger countries, so the EU could enlarge even without the Treaty of Lisbon.
 
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I assume that concerns over pension schemes have been spreading across EU as EU member countries face the same financial difficulty as Ireland. However, EU government cannot adopt turnkey solution being valid for all member countries because all EU members hold different troubles from others.
I suggest EU government to dissolve "EU" & "Euro" in order to let member countries tackle their own troubles country-by-country basis. 🙂


To be correct, the Irish love the EU. They have enjoyed huge benefit from joining the EU. Much if not all their economic growth is because of them joining the EU. If the EU and euro was dissolved as you simply and without explanation stated, Ireland would not enjoy the huge economic benefits from before. Do you know what Ireland's nickname was since it joined the EU? The Celtic Tiger, because of the incredible wealth the people amassed since joining the EU. Why did they join? Ireland, country of 5 million people suddenly had free and complete access to a market of 500 million people. This is why I suggested Japan to join, to bolster Japan's ailing and weak economy.


To be honest, the EU will continue to enlarge with countries who want to join. The euro is the currency of the EU and always will be, as it is enshrined in the Treaty of Lisbon. All the EU countries will have the same economic model, also enshrined in the Treaty of Lisbon. To think that the EU will stay confined to just Europe is also based either on no historic truths or on little factual knowledge of EU politics and ideals.
 

rihoko

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Nah. I believe the existing relationship between Japan and EU is already adequate.
Most likely, Japan would very much prefer to remain as a unique entity from EU, as EU's policies are considered intrusive for Asian standards. Besides, as much as one can delude himself, there are little to no cultural and social similarities between Japanese and Europeans.

Perhaps, what you're thinking is to strengthen NATO-Japan ties for security purposes. Although this was in discussion, I would advise Japan to tread carefully and not to anger its neighbors.

Japan's not at Israel's level and does not need to make unnecessary moves to put itself in that position.
 
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Nah. I believe the existing relationship between Japan and EU is already adequate.
Most likely, Japan would very much prefer to remain as a unique entity from EU, as EU's policies are considered intrusive for Asian standards. Besides, as much as one can delude himself, there are little to no cultural and social similarities between Japanese and Europeans.
Perhaps, what you're thinking is to strengthen NATO-Japan ties for security purposes. Although this was in discussion, I would advise Japan to tread carefully and not to anger its neighbors.
Japan's not at Israel's level and does not need to make unnecessary moves to put itself in that position.



Japan follows the German Parliamentary system. The Japanese laws are a mixture of European continental civil law and British common law. And the Japanese people have already given up their way of conducting and managing corporations. Japanese corporations used to be managed in the hierarchy of seniority, now it is all meritocracy. Japanese people have embraced individuality. Japan is more like the west than the east. If Japan followed traditional Asian ideals, then Japan would now be a hardcore dictatorship, isolating itself from the rest of the world and conducting business like the old emperors. But even now the Japanese emperor is wearing a western style suit. Occasionally they might wear Japanese traditional clothing, but we in Europe also have such ridiculously outdated and fancy clothing that we wear once every year to celebrate our different histories and cultures.


NATO might be a choice for Japan. However, it won't solve Japanese economic problems. The EU has far more at its disposal than NATO does. The EU has also joined under a new name with 17 African and Middle Eastern countries. Those countries are not as westernized as Japan or modern. Why would Japan be less suitable? At least 11 EU Member States were formerly communist, even they are more different from western standards than Japan is. Think about it and it will make sense.
 

JerseyBoy

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Japanese corporations used to be managed in the hierarchy of seniority, now it is all meritocracy. Japanese people have embraced individuality.
There are still many local Japanese companies that keep the seniority model and the Japanese society as a whole leans toward conformism. This is based on my own experience; so your mileage may vary.

PS. There is no way Japan will join EU (or EU let Japan joint the union). I just cannot imagine how Japanese be part of the multicultural political and economic union as they are not comfortable with foreigners. Also, I don't see EU wants Japan as its member (I just don't see how EU can invite an Asian race on mass to the European countries).
 
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CIGARMANIAC

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Japan follows the German Parliamentary system. The Japanese laws are a mixture of European continental civil law and British common law. And the Japanese people have already given up their way of conducting and managing corporations. Japanese corporations used to be managed in the hierarchy of seniority, now it is all meritocracy. Japanese people have embraced individuality. Japan is more like the west than the east. If Japan followed traditional Asian ideals, then Japan would now be a hardcore dictatorship, isolating itself from the rest of the world and conducting business like the old emperors. But even now the Japanese emperor is wearing a western style suit. Occasionally they might wear Japanese traditional clothing, but we in Europe also have such ridiculously outdated and fancy clothing that we wear once every year to celebrate our different histories and cultures.
NATO might be a choice for Japan. However, it won't solve Japanese economic problems. The EU has far more at its disposal than NATO does. The EU has also joined under a new name with 17 African and Middle Eastern countries. Those countries are not as westernized as Japan or modern. Why would Japan be less suitable? At least 11 EU Member States were formerly communist, even they are more different from western standards than Japan is. Think about it and it will make sense.

It makes no sense whatsoever. There is absolutely no talk anywhere of Japan joining the EU. Please verify the facts, people.

Japan has NOT embraced individuality. What an odd suggestion!
 
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Strange visions! Far away from reality!




All visions start far from reality. The vision to fly or the vision to land on the moon is just an example, far more rediculous than that of Japan to join the EU. Bruno and Jerseyboy, think about this. The EU has already united with 17 countries from Africa and Asia. It's called the Mediterrenean Union. So, the whole argument based on saying that EU is European and Japan is Asian and therefore cannot unite is not a very good one.

Union_for_the_Medpng-1.jpg

Union for the Mediterranean - Wikipedia

The Arabic members of the union are arguing to include the rest of the Arab countries or to be precise, the entire Arabian Gulf. This would put a major global supply of oil in the hands of the greater union, may you call it European Union or Mediterrenean Union or even a new name in 50 years time.

Japan's economy is suffering worse than America's and no recovery in sight. What do the brilliant minds at the economist suggest? More easier access to labor movements and immigration. The EU is the most logical joice. A huge market, 500 million people, 800 million people if you consider the new Union for the Mediterrenean and close to 1 billion if you also include Japan. The EU has a highly educated population that Japan could draw from and a very sophesticated market which would become a part of Japan.

The Economist - World News, Politics, Economics, Business & Finance


Please don't just say "Japan is Asian, so it won't work" or "Japan is different" when there already is an precedent to include Islamic African and Asian countries. Also, the EU's motto is "Unity in diversity". Of course the EU has its little group of right radicals and xenophobes who still live in the 16th century and see Turkey as the Ottoman Empire, but those people are in the minority.
 

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Who is behind the current crisis are international bankers who control central banks in Europe and own the American Federal Reserve and seek to control the world through organizations like UN, Council on Foreign Relations, Nato that masquerade themselves of having good purpose but actually are trying to unify the world under one world government and those crooked leaders, politicians, bankers are Satan worshipers who belong to secret societies like Freemasonry and Illuminati. Very known members are the British Royal Family, who are Freemasons (which is why I believe there are a lot of cctv cameras and biometric identification system is already adopted there) the Bush family, who belong to the Skull & Bones, a secret society related to the Illuminati. 9/11 was an inside job and attack on Iraq, Afghanistan was based on pagan beliefs. Just look at Washington D.C, there are a lot of Masonic symbols: streets in front of the White House forming an inverted Pentagram which represents Baphomet (try Google Earth), a satanic symbol; The Pentagon (center of a pentagram is a pentagon); Washington Monument that has 555 feet but below ground base has 111 feet (555+111=666), also 555 feet is 666 inches; the pyramid with the all seeing eye on the one dollar bill and many others. And Look at the poster I showed, there are a lot of pentagrams above the Babel Tower. The building below is EU's headquarter in Strasbourg.
 

CIGARMANIAC

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Conspiracy theories are ludicrous. Forget about the "Illuminati", "Satan" and other secret societies. There are no "master manipulators". GROW UP!

The Med. Union is in its infancy. It is NOT a Union of the EU with certain N. African and Near Eastern countries. It is a loose link of the EU with non-EU states that will attempt to develop common policies in areas of mutual interest, a sort of conference that meets from time to time to solve common problems. There are plenty of such regional blocs of co-operating nation-states.

Wikipedia is a POOR source of information.

Why are you so hung up about the EU? Nation-states are always joining and re-joining and splitting up into groups, blocs, alliances, etc.

EUROPEAN UNION: Please name the African and South American members of the EU. (Colonies such as Ceuta and Mellila and overseas territories such as French Guyana don't count).
 
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Conspiracy theories are ludicrous. Forget about the "Illuminati", "Satan" and other secret societies. There are no "master manipulators". GROW UP!
The Med. Union is in its infancy. It is NOT a Union of the EU with certain N. African and Near Eastern countries. It is a loose link of the EU with non-EU states that will attempt to develop common policies in areas of mutual interest, a sort of conference that meets from time to time to solve common problems. There are plenty of such regional blocs of co-operating nation-states.
Wikipedia is a POOR source of information.
Why are you so hung up about the EU? Nation-states are always joining and re-joining and splitting up into groups, blocs, alliances, etc.
EUROPEAN UNION: Please name the African and South American members of the EU. (Colonies such as Ceuta and Mellila and overseas territories such as French Guyana don't count).


I posted the wiki link so people can read about it before they comment. Wiki is always a good place to begin, unless you can perhaps suggest a better free source that everyone can access? Also, don't dismiss information just because it's from wiki. To do that is a fallacy.


The EU has no Member States in Africa or South America. Where are you getting that nonsensical information from?


Union of the Mediterranean
As for the Union of the Mediterranean, president of France and current EU president, Sarkozy, said during a speech that the people of the Mediterranean should come together and do the same that the people from the EU did. If you recollect European history, the idea of an European Union was talked about more than 50 years ago. The Steel and Coal Community was just a small step, or as you called it, "infancy". The idea of a Mediterranean Union is also not new, it was discussed long before even you were born. Back then it was called Eurabia. Now it is called something entirely different.
Union_for_the_Medpng-1.jpg



The same month Sarkozy also succeeded in organizing the founding conference of the Union for the Mediterranean, a loose affiliation of Mediterranean countries that Sarkozy had long favored.
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_701879302/sarkozy_nicolas.html
 
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rihoko

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well trying to see things from a different angle.. chirac was quite a japanophile.. and sarkozy's unique thinking should leave a print in EU's mentality even after his chair.. so on the EU side of things, they might accept Japan.. Japanese looks down on its Asian neighbors like how Gandalf looks down on Frodo.. so maybe if Japan will ever join some kind of union (can't call it regional grouping in this case I guess), either from uncertainties about its security or economy. maybe it would choose EU... unless it wants to continue its vague relationship with Sugar Papa US.

But then, I don't think China would just sit around and do nothing if Japan chooses to join EU. There would be implications. I sure wouldn't want China to be aiming its MRBMs at my anime studios... I'm dead sure that's where they'd attack first.

So, say Japan gets on really bad terms with its neighbors for joining EU, how would EU protect Japan from an impending attack or a trade embargo by regional countries? Remember that Japan isn't Israel, morality-current conflicts aside, looking from just strategic/military point of view, Israel is an A+ success being handcuffed by international pressure... Japan after WWII, is a D with minimal combat experience, constantly pressured to be more proactive than sending naval supports + aids in the international peacekeeping effort.
 
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well trying to see things from a different angle.. chirac was quite a japanophile.. and sarkozy's unique thinking should leave a print in EU's mentality even after his chair.. so on the EU side of things, they might accept Japan.. Japanese looks down on its Asian neighbors like how Gandalf looks down on Frodo.. so maybe if Japan will ever join some kind of union (can't call it regional grouping in this case I guess), either from uncertainties about its security or economy. maybe it would choose EU... unless it wants to continue its vague relationship with Sugar Papa US.

But then, I don't think China would just sit around and do nothing if Japan chooses to join EU. There would be implications. I sure wouldn't want China to be aiming its MRBMs at my anime studios... I'm dead sure that's where they'd attack first.

So, say Japan gets on really bad terms with its neighbors for joining EU, how would EU protect Japan from an impending attack or a trade embargo by regional countries? Remember that Japan isn't Israel, morality-current conflicts aside, looking from just strategic/military point of view, Israel is an A+ success being handcuffed by international pressure... Japan after WWII, is a D with minimal combat experience, constantly pressured to be more proactive than sending naval supports + aids in the international peacekeeping effort.


Mademoiselle, if indeed you are a mademoiselle, I am applauding you for your vision and your honest opinions. You are right, Russia and China would be well worried if Japan joined the EU. However, the EU is a non military alliance, it is an economic and political union for the better of mankind, whether European or Asian. However, if China does intend to aim anything at Japan, it will be so at the cost of the Treaty of Lisbon, common defense policy. One attack on a Member States includes an attack on all Member states. To attack Japan is to attack the rest of Europe. This is the power of the Treaty of Lisbon.


Another perhaps positive aspect of the Treaty of Lisbon is the common foreign affairs representative. Currently there are over 5000 European embassies, after the Treaty of Lisbon, there will be less than 200. This will strengthen the EU and Japan, if Japan indeed becomes a member. One politician will represent the whole union, with a common voice. Who shall dare to challenge an economy larger than that of the USA? Currently, the EU is the largest trade partner of China. America is number two. Japan as part of the EU, will have huge powers within Asia. Russia or China would not dare fart without consequences. I would even support Singapore and Australia joining the EU if those 2 countries could fit the Copenhagen criteria of democracy, rule of law and much more. I believe, this is my personal opinion, the EU should not discriminate based on ethnicity. How do you feel about that?
 

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I think you're forgetting a key factor that makes the EU an effective entity, contiguous borders/similar time zones. But if that's not a problem, you should try getting the U.S. to join the E.U., Japan will then follow.
 
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I think you're forgetting a key factor that makes the EU an effective entity, contiguous borders/similar time zones. But if that's not a problem, you should try getting the U.S. to join the E.U., Japan will then follow.



There would be a problem of USA joining the EU, far bigger than that of Japan joining the EU. The USA and EU people are totally different. EU prefers non military diplomacy, soft power and the rule of law. America prefers something entirely different. Consider this, EU's nominal GDP is 22% larger than that of America, in other words, the economy of the EU is 1/4 bigger than that of the USA. However, USA military spending is over 460 billion. While EU combined spending is 300 billion. Most EU state guarantee Universal Healthcare and Education, but America guarantees the right to own a gun. Japan is more alike to the EU than America. Japanese and EU people like peace and stability, following innovation and commerce. This is our combined character.


Superpower, ey?
However, don't think America is the only Superpower. The EU is already a Superpower, just it is not talked about much, because they prefer a low profile. It's not what I am saying, but other academics said this and at worst it is described as emerging Superpower. The EU has a wide global reach with its economy, the EU is the number 1 exporter in the world, Germany alone is the world's biggest exporter. The EU receives 50% of all global tourism and the EU also is the world's largest economy. Do note the EU military spending is 300 billion, it could be much larger if the EU intended to. But in today's world it is more important to control the means of production, not the means of destruction. And the EU is definitely not interested in destruction, because this is the reason why it was created in the first place, to bring peace to the European continent.
 

Dogen Z

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Glossing over my important point and going after the glib remark, huh. Well, then...

Thank you for the invitation but I'm afraid Japan has not given up on its plan for a Greater Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. This time with much more collaboration with the other countries involved. Just imagine an economic entity including Japan, China (+Hong Kong), South Korea, Taiwan, India, Singapore, Vietnam and others. The growth rate would be staggering and dwarf anything the EU could produce! Once we get it going, you'll be consulted as to how you can play a productive role in this new world order. :p
 
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Glossing over my important point and going after the glib remark, huh. Well, then...
Thank you for the invitation but I'm afraid Japan has not given up on its plan for a Greater Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. This time with much more collaboration with the other countries involved. Just imagine an economic entity including Japan, China (+Hong Kong), South Korea, Taiwan, India, Singapore, Vietnam and others. The growth rate would be staggering and dwarf anything the EU could produce! Once we get it going, you'll be consulted as to how you can play a productive role in this new world order. :p



Sure, but what are you talking about? You mention some Greater Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. That is a concept from the Showa era. It created anti-Western feelings in Asia and was Japanese imperial propaganda. The only purpose of it was to promote Japan's interests under the guise of East Asian co-operation between Japan, China and the Manchu. Any union between Japan and China will be only if Japan is a subordinate or junior partner. You can be China's junior partner if that is what you wish for Japan or you can be an equal partner within the EU (or any new name this will evolve to).


Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere - Wikipedia


On the other hand, the EU is an existing concept and an ever evolving one. The greater academics of the EU want all of the world's people to benefit from this, but there are some bigots and racists who only want to include their own race. This is not unique to Europeans, but certainly also Asians as can be ascertained.
 

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I only mentioned the Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere in jest, since I think your idea is just as funny. 😊

But the point is economic development must take place regionally, just as it did for the EU--there are regional problems that countries elsewhere do not understand and cannot help. There are huge problems among Japan, China, and Korea and these must worked out among the three because they can't be ignored. However, some start has already begun with a historic meeting with heads of state from the three in Japan late last year. From there, some common groundwork can be established for long term future development in the region. :)
 
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