What's new

Welcome to Japan Reference (JREF) - the community for all Things Japanese.

Join Today! It is fast, simple, and FREE!

Japan as EU Member State

Japan as EU Member State?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 5 17.2%
  • No!

    Votes: 23 79.3%
  • I don't know!

    Votes: 1 3.4%

  • Total voters
    29
Joined
15 Dec 2008
Messages
38
Reaction score
0
Greeting from the EU.


There has recently been an interesting discussion on an EU government sponsored forum. The forums debates will every month be summarized in report format and handed to the EU Parliament so that conclusions may be formed. This brings us to the fundemental question. How do the Japanese citizens feel about joining the EU as a Member State?


Please discuss on this thread and bring your ideas to the forum where this original discussion started. Do note that unfortunately the Europa Dialogue moderators cannot base a report on a discussion on this forum, it has to be on the Europa Dialogue forum. I also do not represent the EU or that said forum in any official capacity.


As I cannot post the link yet, please find the forum and discussion by yourself. The tag is "Europa Dialogue Japan for EU?" If someone could kindly later post the URL for anyone. Thank you!


Also, here are some of the argument for and against Japan joining the EU. Do note that all those arguments came only from the Europeans, since there isn't any Japanese on the forum. There is also a poll and it was in favour of Japan joining the EU. However, since there was an influx of Chinese people who have strongly voted No, the poll is no longer in favour of Japan joining the EU anymore.


-Japan is not part of the European continent.
-The EU has many Member States and territories who are not part of the European continet. Such as, Turkey (candidate), Cyprus, Cannary Islands and some South American and African territories.
-Japan would benefit from EU's defence policy, which is, an attack on one Member State constitutes an attack on all Member States.
-Japan's population is too large and this would mean that the Japanese would dominate the EU Parliament.
-Japanese culture is too different from European culture.
-European culture is a big mix already and adding Japanese culture, which by the way has embraced European culture already, won't do any harm.
-The Japanese share the EU's core believes and values, such as democracy, rule of law and human rights just to name a few.
-The EU and Japan would benefit from a very open market for goods, services and maybe people (there is an opt out available for people travelling freely).
-Japan should be able to join and any other nation else for that matter which satisfies the Copenhagen Criteria for EU Member State membership.
-The Japanese would never give up their Yen.
-The Japanese don't have to give up their Yen, just like how the UK didn't give up their Pound.


So, feel free to discuss here first and then contribute to the Europa Dialogue. The European Union citizens and Parliament are very keen to hear the Japanese view on this. Do note that Japan is the only country so far from the EU to be ever discussed with so much controversy and seriousness.


Have a good discussion everyone!👍
 
Last edited:

JerseyBoy

Back in town
Joined
31 Dec 2005
Messages
510
Reaction score
9
I just doubt Japan will ever join EU. There are so many differences between Japanese and EU business and cultural practices. If Japan is going to join EU, then, I might stay in Japan (so that I can get a free access to EU). There are simply too many things which go wrong with this whole concept.
 

Astroboy

先輩
Joined
5 Dec 2007
Messages
1,264
Reaction score
25
I just doubt Japan will ever join EU. There are so many differences between Japanese and EU business and cultural practices. If Japan is going to join EU, then, I might stay in Japan (so that I can get a free access to EU). There are simply too many things which go wrong with this whole concept.

From Japanese perspective, Europe is too far - the other side of Eurasia Continent, and too different, Plus I'm sure that nobody Japanese think of EU ever.

On top of that, IF Japan becomes a member of EU, many countries between Japan and Europe will complain why we are eliminated.

I suggest "European Union" to consider China for new EU member as an alternative idea instead of Japan. 😌

I personally believe that Japan should continue to sit out from any of regional union as Japan does not share any value with rest of the world.
 

butakun

先輩
Joined
9 Dec 2004
Messages
91
Reaction score
4
Well, okay, they are both bureaucrats' heaven, yup.

On top of that, IF Japan becomes a member of EU, many countries between Japan and Europe will complain why we are eliminated.
In fact, there's only one country between EU and Japan. Russia.

as Japan does not share any value with rest of the world.
LOL. Nothing serious, I just think this sounds very funny.
 
Joined
15 Dec 2008
Messages
38
Reaction score
0
I just doubt Japan will ever join EU. There are so many differences between Japanese and EU business and cultural practices. If Japan is going to join EU, then, I might stay in Japan (so that I can get a free access to EU). There are simply too many things which go wrong with this whole concept.


You seem to be under the incorrect impression that all Europeans are the same. As a matter of fact the cultures of Europe are so diverse that you probably would need a couple of books to describe all of them. And Japanese business practices are unique, so are those of the Germans, English, Italians, Spanish and French. That's why the EU motto is "Unity in diversity". It is a common fallacy for people to think the EU has assimilated all people under one umbrela, in fact it never did such a thing. Have you ever seen any EU government websites? Most come in +20 languages, because almost every EU nation continues to use their language.


With your last sentence, that there are too many things that could go wrong, I agree. But so can just as many things go wrong flying in an airplane or driving a car. Does it stop you from driving a car or flying by plane? You just have to trust in your mechanic and pilot and the EU's mechanics and pilots are the world's best without a doubt. If anyone can pull it off, it's the EU leaders.
 
Joined
15 Dec 2008
Messages
38
Reaction score
0
From Japanese perspective, Europe is too far - the other side of Eurasia Continent, and too different, Plus I'm sure that nobody Japanese think of EU ever.
On top of that, IF Japan becomes a member of EU, many countries between Japan and Europe will complain why we are eliminated.
I suggest "European Union" to consider China for new EU member as an alternative idea instead of Japan. 😌
I personally believe that Japan should continue to sit out from any of regional union as Japan does not share any value with rest of the world.



It's not quite correct to say "Japan is too different from the EU" since all EU members are different from each other, in some cases, totally different. And this is what makes the EU so strong, "Unity in diversity". We can all draw from our different strengths. For example, Germany is an economic powerhouse, small population but the biggest exporter in the world. UK have their maritime traditions, now they lead an EU armada to fight the pirates of the Gulf of Aden. This is just a small example of the EU.


There is a global fallacy to not think of the EU as a superpower or any sort of power. It's because the EU lacks a common political structure which the Treaty of Lisbon tried to introduce. So, it's not only the Japanese who don't think of the EU, but many people don't think of the EU and this is their mistake. The EU is the world's largest exporter and China's biggest market. The EU economy is already larger than America's and will be 6 trillion bigger in 2013. The EU military spending is over 300 billion USD and the EU started a sort of daughter project to create a common EU army known as the Eurokorps.


Those countries between the EU and Japan cannot join for a good reason. Most of them, including China, don't fulfill the EU criteria for joining, known as the Copenhagen criteria. There are strict guidelines for politics, democracy, rule of law, media freedoms and much more that must be accomplished before a country can join. China, Russia, Belarus and many more are not advanced enough or would need so many years of reforms that it is currently impossible to even consider them. And distance is not an issue in today's world. The EU has several territories in Africa, in South America and in the Carrabeans.


While Japan might want to sit out of any regional union, it is not a choice any longer. You probably know of Japan's attempt to form an alliance with Australia and India. It's for a good reason too right? Japan wouldn't just form a reason for fun. Joining the EU provides many benefits besides open markets. Japan will also be protected by the EU military defense pact provided by the Treaty of Lisbon. An attack on Japan would be considered an attack on the entire EU. So no more N. Korean, Chinese and Russian boogeyman to worry about.


Open Markets
Open market by EU standard means that the market of Japan would be intergrated with that of the EU. The Japanese people could share their fun, exciting and practical gadgets and technology with the whole of EU. Don't think of Japan part of EU, but as EU part of Japan. The Japanese market would in a single night jump to a 650 million people market. You could take your mobile phone to any country in the EU and call relatives and friends for the same price. Japanese fishing boats could fish anywhere within EU waters. If Russia some day fulfills and decides to join the EU, then Japanese people and companies would be able to visit the lost islands. Japanese companies could drill for oil & gas even without national restrictions. :)👍
 

caster51

Sempai
Joined
27 Feb 2005
Messages
1,918
Reaction score
32
While Japan might want to sit out of any regional union, it is not a choice any longer. You probably know of Japan's attempt to form an alliance with Australia and India. It's for a good reason too right? Japan wouldn't just form a reason for fun. Joining the EU provides many benefits besides open markets. Japan will also be protected by the EU military defense pact provided by the Treaty of Lisbon. An attack on Japan would be considered an attack on the entire EU. So no more N. Korean, Chinese and Russian boogeyman to worry about.

I think the reason is only that for Japan.
The United States strategy has already changed into the multipole principle(multipolarization )
China is a hegemonism....
Japan does not share any value in the neighboring, that is, korea and China
many ppls say " why does not Japan make friendly in the neighboring country?"
so, if there are some countries where Japan can not share national interest in neighbor, Japan must make some friends in far

Thirty-Six Stratagems - Wikipedia
#23 in Thirty-Six_Stratagems
遠交近攻 - Wikipedia
 
Joined
15 Dec 2008
Messages
38
Reaction score
0
I think the reason is only that for Japan.
The United States strategy has already changed into the multipole principle(multipolarization )
China is a hegemonism....
Japan does not share any value in the neighboring, that is, korea and China
many ppls say " why does not Japan make friendly in the neighboring country?"
so, if there are some countries where Japan can not share national interest in neighbor, Japan must make some friends in far


In the current America-Japan relationship Japan just seems to be the junior partner, if one can even call Japan a partner in this current relationship. Japan must relly on America for defense from China, N. Korea and Russia, which is ridiculous considering Japan's economic power. Japan has the right to be an equal amongst other free nations and the obligation to make closer ties with her European partners. After all, the European ideals, believes and values are so similar, if not even identical, to those of Japan. Human rights, democracy, liberty, rule of law and these are just a few of the many.


The differences between the EU Member States and Japan are only cultural and liguistic. Consider this, the EU has 27 Member States, +27 different cultures and +24 official languages. Japan wouldn't feel so out of place.
 

caster51

Sempai
Joined
27 Feb 2005
Messages
1,918
Reaction score
32
The differences between the EU Member States and Japan are only cultural and liguistic. Consider this, the EU has 27 Member States, +27 different cultures and +24 official languages. Japan wouldn't feel so out of place.

it is a just Japan's restraint.
if Japan disucuss to make a A-bomd, it woud be a restraint.
 

Astroboy

先輩
Joined
5 Dec 2007
Messages
1,264
Reaction score
25
In the current America-Japan relationship Japan just seems to be the junior partner, if one can even call Japan a partner in this current relationship. Japan must relly on America for defense from China, N. Korea and Russia, which is ridiculous considering Japan's economic power. Japan has the right to be an equal amongst other free nations and the obligation to make closer ties with her European partners. After all, the European ideals, believes and values are so similar, if not even identical, to those of Japan. Human rights, democracy, liberty, rule of law and these are just a few of the many.

Majority of Japanese don't care whether it's junior or senior. 😊
As far as it's beneficial for Japan, all is fine. So if it's not, just Sayonara.
You better understand that the Japan-U.S. Security Treaty is not bilateral, meaning Japan is not obliged to help USA. In other words, Japan hires American mercenary troops on contract basis.

The differences between the EU Member States and Japan are only cultural and liguistic. Consider this, the EU has 27 Member States, +27 different cultures and +24 official languages. Japan wouldn't feel so out of place.

Well... culture & tradition is the most important. We are eating "Whale meat" and adopting "death penalty". So I must say "you better look for others instead of Japan". Or Would you like eat Whale meat ???😊
 
Joined
15 Dec 2008
Messages
38
Reaction score
0
Majority of Japanese don't care whether it's junior or senior. 😊
As far as it's beneficial for Japan, all is fine. So if it's not, just Sayonara.
You better understand that the Japan-U.S. Security Treaty is not bilateral, meaning Japan is not obliged to help USA. In other words, Japan hires American mercenary troops on contract basis.
Well... culture & tradition is the most important. We are eating "Whale meat" and adopting "death penalty". So I must say "you better look for others instead of Japan". Or Would you like eat Whale meat ???😊


America is obliged to help a number of countries when war starts. One of the countries was Georgia. The Japanese people are betting on America protecting Japan from China, North Korea and Russia for all eternity. Look at Australia now. Kevin Rudd has set his eyes on China and is now planning the future defense of Australia. He will spend up to 100 billion dollars to buy 2 aircraft carriers, an extra 100 joint strikers and 18 submarines. He is much further from China than you are, why is he so scared? Isn't Australia an ally of America? Doesn't Australia have an American military base too? Think about it.


About the whale meat comment. You seem to be under the misconception that the Europeans or I care what someone puts in their mouth. Europe is one of the first places on earth to tolerate gays, we are not going to care what the Japanese wish to put in their mouths. After all, several European countries have a tradition of eating whale meat. Those countries could join in hunting whales with you. Like I really care. And why do you think I have to eat whale meat if Japan joins the EU? Do the Japanese eat whale every day?


I think you should look at some more real opportunities for the EU and Japan. Look at the 650 million people market. Or the free labour movement policy. The mutual defense policy. There are many long term benefits to joining the EU.
 

Yan

先輩
Joined
8 Jun 2008
Messages
163
Reaction score
3
Japan isn't an European country. Europeans have their own business and Japanese too. Therefore, Japanese are already ruled by US. Are they able to be independent from other countries and create their own economy?

PS: I don't have a lot of knowledge about that stuff.
 

Astroboy

先輩
Joined
5 Dec 2007
Messages
1,264
Reaction score
25
I think you should look at some more real opportunities for the EU and Japan. Look at the 650 million people market. Or the free labour movement policy. The mutual defense policy. There are many long term benefits to joining the EU.

Instead of thinking about JAPAN, I suggest EU to consider Russia as Berlusconi says.

Russia should be allowed to join the European Union in the coming years, Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi said Wednesday. "I consider Russia to be a Western nation. So my project is that the Russian Federation should become a member of the EU in the coming years," Berlusconi told Italian reporters on the sidelines of an EU summit in Brussels. .....
Earth Times: show/237218,russia-should-join-eu-berlusconi-says.html

I repeat that Majority of Japanese NEVER think of EU. Speaking of EU, it is something about tourism, being the same as Tokyo Disneyland.
 

Astroboy

先輩
Joined
5 Dec 2007
Messages
1,264
Reaction score
25
Tokyo Disneyland - an amusement park near Tokyo - a copy of US Disneyland, which copies European Castle.
Tokyocinderella-1.jpg


Tokyo Disney Sea - another amusement park next to Tokyo Disneyland - a copy of Southern Europe


Nagasaki Huis Ten Bosch - an amusement park in Kyushu - a copy of Dutch Town.
hausutenbosu2s-1.jpg


So enough Europe in Japan.
 
Joined
15 Dec 2008
Messages
38
Reaction score
0
Japan isn't an European country. Europeans have their own business and Japanese too. Therefore, Japanese are already ruled by US. Are they able to be independent from other countries and create their own economy?

PS: I don't have a lot of knowledge about that stuff.



You missed the original post and should read it again. It clearly mentions that there are many EU Member States who are not European countries or territories. Japan's case would be judged on 2 grounds. Either, part of the European continent or has enough European culture, values and believes. Each country would be judged on that.


You probably have not even heard of the new Mediterrenean Union. It was founded earlier this year. It is a new union between the EU and 17 African and Middle Eastern states. It includes heavyweights like Israel, Egypt, Syria, Lybia and many more. In the future the EU market will be over 750 people. However the Middle Eastern countries are complaining there are not enough Middle Eastern countries involved, such as Saudi Arabia, Jordan and as such. Therefore, they want to negotiate with the EU to include the other Maghreb countries. This might create a new union or free market of over 1 billion people.


I suggest you read up a little bit more on this. This is the future of the world.
 
Joined
15 Dec 2008
Messages
38
Reaction score
0
Russia for EU?

Instead of thinking about JAPAN, I suggest EU to consider Russia as Berlusconi says.
I repeat that Majority of Japanese NEVER think of EU. Speaking of EU, it is something about tourism, being the same as Tokyo Disneyland.


Russia's Energy Control
You seem not to understand the fundemental difficulties of including Russia in the EU. Those are very big political and technica problems. First of all, Russia would have to permit all European oil and gas firms to operate on its soil. Russia did a good job this and last year kicking out all European firms that operated in Russia. You see, the Russians want to make a huge benefit by controlling a Central Asian energy monopoly. The EU and America knew this well and therefore they are competing for control over that region. Which brings us to the next point, the SCO.


SCO and Russia
The SCO was founded back in 2001. According to the founders, it was not as a military alliance aimed at anyone. This was likely a fible, since most analysts believed this was directly aimed at Nato. Europeans and Americans want greater access to Central Asia. However, Russia wants to control this as an excluse Russian area. The Chinese on the other hand are desperate for energy. Even though they are both members of SCO, they still compete over the resources. The Russians and Chinese conducted a joined military exercise last year coined "Peace Mission 2007". Now this new alliance has several observing countries, such as India and Iran. Some day maybe even North Korea. Iran has already applied for membership of this alliance back in 24th March, 2008. India is also likely to request membership sometime in the near future, because old foe Pakistan is also interested in membership. Where would this leave Japan?


Russia for EU?
Would Russia give up its lucrative energy monopoly over Central Asia? NO! Would Russia disolve the SCO alliance for the sake of the EU? NO! Would Russian ultra-nationalists listen to the European Parliament based in Brussels? NO! Therefore, it would be difficult to include Russia in the EU, due to these reasons. They would have to change first if Russia was to join. However, many predict that the powerful EU will subdue Russia in the long run.


Where does this leave Japan?
Japan will be left between a rock and a hard place. SCO is not just a military alliance between some of the least democratic fascist states on the planet, but it is also becoming something similar to the EU. They have an increased focus on trade, culture, commerce and the like. And the only ally Japan has is America, a country which was unwilling to come to the aid of another ally, Georgia. Would Americans really risk their necks fighting, Russia, China, Iran and India over Japan? What would happen to Japan's soft power when SCO's soft and hard powers start to get more active than they already are? Think about it carefully. The world is not as peaceful as you wish it to be. We Europeans know this better than anyone else.
 
Joined
15 Dec 2008
Messages
38
Reaction score
0
I should also quite carefull state that a lot of what the EU does is done sort of quietly. For example, did you know that just a while ago a common European army was created? They existed for a while and were known as the Eurocorps. Made up of many different European countries, including Turkey. However, what has made it a real European army is the fact that the EU Parliament has voted on this earlier, to put this army under direct EU Parliament control. So far there are 60,000 soldiers, with 1,000 stationed in Strausbourg. They are also active in combat, but still in very small units. For example, 450 are currently in Afghanistan, but I am sure you never heard of them.


The reason why so many things about the European Union is unknown is to 1 important fact. The EU does not want you to know. One of the founding fathers of the EU, more than 40 years ago said, Everything that the EU does must be done in secret and quiet. Plans should never be revealed until it is too late. Some things are of course done in public. However, the media and publicity is kept low key as to avoid damaging the EU. This is in accordance with the EU strategy. Do everything in the ignorance of the others. When they found out, it is already too late. So you better study up on the EU. It has already enough power to be called a superpower, but it is reluctant to admit or display it. You will know this once it is too late to do anything against it.
 

Yan

先輩
Joined
8 Jun 2008
Messages
163
Reaction score
3
What is the goal of the EU? Is it to become more powerful than US (and it is already the case)? The actual president of EU is Nicolas Sarkozy and this Union has a big power, that's all I actually know about EU.
 
Joined
15 Dec 2008
Messages
38
Reaction score
0
Are these unions the New World Order under guise?



The EU is a new world order under guise, that's absolutely correct. There is only 1 reason why. People fear what they don't understand. The truth is that the majority of human beings, perhaps 95-98% don't understand politics, laws and much more about this world. People simply don't take the time to learn about these issues. So to suddenly find out something new about the EU might be a big shock to many people. Such as the creation of a common EU army. That's why the EU founding fathers said that everything the EU does must be done in secret or quietly enough as to not to alarm the people. You could say that human beings are simply scared by change.
 
Joined
15 Dec 2008
Messages
38
Reaction score
0
What is the goal of the EU? Is it to become more powerful than US (and it is already the case)? The actual president of EU is Nicolas Sarkozy and this Union has a big power, that's all I actually know about EU.



The goal of the EU are many. One is continous enlargement with countries that share the same believes and values of the EU, such as democracy, peace, stability, good governance, the rule of law and human rights. There are many countries near the EU that don't share these values. Those countries fall under the European Union Neighbourhood Policy. This policy is designed to develop those countries to be in line with the EU's policies, such as democracy. But they are also intended to develop those countries through infrastructure projects. The EU intends to invest a lot of money to connect Africa and Europe by a bridge or tunnel and eventual build renewable energy plants there to supply those countries and the EU with clean power. Eventually those countries will join the EU.


In short, the EU is a new Empire. It is a European Empire or World Empire. One of the most important European politicians compared the EU to an Empire, but this empire is voluntary and democratic. In other words, no one is forced to join the EU. People are given the chance to join, with a promise of better cooperation and benefit for all citizens. The benefits include the world's best governance, the world's best police force, the world's best laws and a huge efficient and modern market. In other words, if a country wants to join the EU, it must fulfill the Copenhagen Criteria, which is in line with democracy, good governance, human rights, rule of law and much more. All is strictly voluntary.


EU Presidency
The current President of the EU is Mr. Sarkozy from France. His term runs out on midnight of December 31st. The Treaty of Lisbon was supposed to take effect on January 1st. This would mean the EU citizens would vote for an EU President, who's term would be of 2 and 1/2 years. Currently the term is just 6 months and it rotates from EU country to EU country. The Treaty of Lisbon must be ratified by all 27 Member States. However, Ireland rejected it in a public referendum. Majority of the Irish people who rejected it did so on pure ignorance. Most did not know what the Treaty of Lisbon is. Most never even read it or bothered to search it on the internet. Most new as much about the Treaty of Lisbon as you probably due. They rejected it out of fear and ignorance. This is what the EU founding fathers stated. "Everything about the EU must be done in secrecy."
 
Top Bottom