Did you move to Japan because you don't like your home country?

@ Elizabeth - O'Hare International is the busiest airport in the world.
Hmm, doesn't sound too cool, let me rephrase that:
O'Hare International is THE busiest airport IN THE WORLD.
Better.

Personally I believe home is where my feet are at. I try to make the best of things wherever I am - something I got from my mum as we moved from Germany to New Zealand while I was quite young. I have never, and will never, get 'homesick', as I do not miss a place in particular but more the people I cherish there.

Unfortunately, recent events have reinforced my dislike of New Zealand as a place of residence (don't get me wrong, it is a beautiful place for a holiday, if you have the money). I won't bore you with the details - especially as it will get my blood boiling again - but I will say that I doubt many people would tend to disagree with my argument against staying here. As such, we - my OH and I - have come to the conclusion that NZ is not the place for us.

We thought long and hard about this decision, but have come to the conclusion that it would be best for us to move back to Europe once I have completed my degree and paid off my student loan(roughly $20,000NZD - kidney anyone?). As to where exactly, that choice was rather easy. Although we were both born in Germany (yet met and fell in love on the other side of the planet), her family lives in Italy. She is very family oriented, as Italians are, and so that is where we shall go. Plus their coffe rocks, especially the price at less than €0.90 for an espresso wherever you go.

This is not to say that we will not exclude other nations as a possibility, as life is long and who knows what will develop. We both have a solid interest in Japanese culture and will in the future, finances willing, visit Japan in order to immerse ourselves and experience what we have only read or heard stories about. Or possibly more - we are not opposed to the idea of working there.

In this day and age it is possible to almost anywhere and make a life for yourself, as long as you are prepared and know what you are getting into.
There are, after all, only two certainties in life - death and taxes (unless you live in Monaco - you lucky little bastards you!), and you only live once, so go forth and explore - life is an adventure and sometimes one hell of a rollercoaster ride.
 
I think that usually when people move to another country they have some another reason than just hating own country. If I moved to Japan would do that because I like that land. Now I live in Finland -always have lived. And maybe I never would move to another country.. because here is pretty good live, actually here is very safety to live. So maybe I would always just be scared in some other country -don't know.

I would also get terrible home sickness. But I WANT to move to Japan. So what can I do? Oh, so hard.
 
Why is it so hard? You have choices in life and just because a person chooses to live somewhere else than their "home" doesnt mean that they leave it behind forever you know.

It doesnt take a month to travel to Japan, you can get here pretty much from any corner of the globe that has international air travel in a day or two at the most.

Once you get used to the traveling it isnt that hard to go and live somewhere else. Plus if you make enough money you could spend 6 months here and then 6 months there.

You dont have to give up one to have the other.
 
@ Elizabeth - O'Hare International is the busiest airport in the world.


Actually Atlanta Hartsfield airport is the busiest in the world...O'Hare used to be, but Atlanta took over that distinction several years ago.
 
Actually Atlanta Hartsfield airport is the busiest in the world...O'Hare used to be, but Atlanta took over that distinction several years ago.

Thanks for that - don't hang with too many pilots any more so my facts are all a bit dated.
 
i am in a limbo at the moment. I never left home looking for a better place, it sort of happened naturaly. Although the Japanese mentality is "if I can't do it than neither should you", they desperately adhear to the "Norm" or "what is considered correct by society", where as my home does not. They both have their good and bads points, but I suppose it comes down to the individual as to what he or she chooses.
 
i am in a limbo at the moment. I never left home looking for a better place, it sort of happened naturaly. Although the Japanese mentality is "if I can't do it than neither should you", they desperately adhear to the "Norm" or "what is considered correct by society", where as my home does not. They both have their good and bads points, but I suppose it comes down to the individual as to what he or she chooses.
I understand what you are saying, but I wouldn't necsissarily say that this is a mindset of the Japanese... I think that this is something I like to think of as "silent compliance"... Plenty of people I know dislike things about Japan, they aren't brainwashed, but they see no way out of their situations.

I had a friend working in Shibuya as a sports-television editor... he would sleep on a futon at work, and be there for hours and hours when I would phone him... He knew that this was dreadful work, but never considered there could be an alternative, naturally, because there is none.

Since World War II, Japan has impressed upon it's people (as one example) to fall in and work those extra hours for Japan... this has remained as part-and-parcell tradition, rather than necessity... All the while where Europe is seeing the benefits to the worker in a 4 day work week... Even if this isn't entirely executed.

There are some things that I've seen that were more like what you've said... my ex could never finish a meal at a restaraunt without eating all she was given... I told her, if you're not hungry anymore than just leave the rest (getting things to-go in Japan seems anathema), ...I can understand as a guest at someone's home, but if I'm full at a restaraunt.. I'm not going to keep shoving the food down my throat because it's polite.

I think a portion of Japanese mores works on the idea of orthodoxy... a sort of "non-thinking", but unlike many other societies, these mores don't necissarily work on a basis of sexual conduct, or predaliction.... They are more nationalistic in most respects, and I think, in some ways, admirable, at least as far as the psychology involved in governing a nation goes.

Even an insideous plan is notable for its cleverness.
 
I understand what you are saying, but I wouldn't necsissarily say that this is a mindset of the Japanese... I think that this is something I like to think of as "silent compliance"... Plenty of people I know dislike things about Japan, they aren't brainwashed, but they see no way out of their situations.

I had a friend working in Shibuya as a sports-television editor... he would sleep on a futon at work, and be there for hours and hours when I would phone him... He knew that this was dreadful work, but never considered there could be an alternative, naturally, because there is none.

Since World War II, Japan has impressed upon it's people (as one example) to fall in and work those extra hours for Japan... this has remained as part-and-parcell tradition, rather than necessity... All the while where Europe is seeing the benefits to the worker in a 4 day work week... Even if this isn't entirely executed.

There are some things that I've seen that were more like what you've said... my ex could never finish a meal at a restaraunt without eating all she was given... I told her, if you're not hungry anymore than just leave the rest (getting things to-go in Japan seems anathema), ...I can understand as a guest at someone's home, but if I'm full at a restaraunt.. I'm not going to keep shoving the food down my throat because it's polite.

I think a portion of Japanese mores works on the idea of orthodoxy... a sort of "non-thinking", but unlike many other societies, these mores don't necissarily work on a basis of sexual conduct, or predaliction.... They are more nationalistic in most respects, and I think, in some ways, admirable, at least as far as the psychology involved in governing a nation goes.

Even an insideous plan is notable for its cleverness.
You just proved my point. I never said they like it that way, but it is ingrained into them from a young age and it is expected of them. When someone goes against the norm it is frowned upon and they are subsequently socialy crusified through "kuchikomi" word of mouth. Eg Workmates, friends, neighbours and even in some cases relatives will bad mouth someone if their kids did something out of the norm. This more than enough motive to make people conform to these society standards. But the fact still remains (even those who don't like the need to conform) will not accept the fact of someone doing something they do not have the guts to do themselves, I have not really heard of anyone saying "good for them ,I hope they do well".

Anyway, like I said I in a limbo and I am suffering from the " I am not in jail ,but feel like it" mentality, so I could be quite biased at this point in time. Other than this, I quite like Japan.
 
Yes I Will!

Did I move to Japan because I disliked my own country? No. I was sent with the military. Did I stay there for 16 years including the 4 with the military because I disliked my own country? No. Did I move back to the states because I disliked Japan? No, I moved because the economy overheated and it was the better choice. Will I move there in a couple of years because I dislike my own country? I would have to say that the answer is yes because it is the better choice.

Granted, I would probably be moving back there regardless, but the present course of the United States has me believing that the United States, as I knew it, no longer exists and is undergoing a change the likes of which has never before been seen in world history and I do not want to around when the change finally takes place in a couple of years.

The US government and our so-called representatives care not what the people think and do as they please as they are beholden to major corporations, the oil companies, and the pharmaceutical industry. Demopublicans and Republicrats, they are all in the game which is why they forbid Independents to run for office or make it extremely difficult. The majority of Americans are still under the assumption that their vote counts when in fact it counts for nothing. It is only an illusion. Does anyone see any changes since the Democrats took office?

Blanket amnesty will be given to the 12 – 20 million illegal aliens already in the country. If not this year then next year, but it will happen, that you can be sure of. It has to in order to ensure that an American Union will be created by 2010 or shortly thereafter as has already been decided. Don't believe that an American Union is in the works? Then check out this link. And be sure to click the link for "2005 report" directly from the CFR, the government behind the government and the ones who really sets US policy.

If the government was really afraid of terrorists entering the country, than the boarders would be sealed and guarded, period. But they are not and it has many today wondering why.

The United States has less than 16% of it manufacturing capability left. If the economy is so good, as is reported on the news, then where are the jobs? In McDonalds and Wal-Mart that's where. Big, record profits are being made by major corporations, but that is only because everything is manufactured in China at a fraction of the cost, but yet we still pay the same price as when they were manufactured in the US.

We are led to believe that inflation is at 2-3% when in fact it is at more than 10% and unemployment is near or above 10%, but you will never see that on the news. Nope, only a rosy picture is painted for the unsuspecting American worker, but they are waking up albeit slowly. Maybe it's already too late.

The recent layoff of 3,400 retail workers by Circuit City, because they were "making too much" and could be hired back at a lower salary with fewer benefits, sends a shot across the bow for the future of workers in America. Check out the links here, and here.

The same holds true for the automotive industry and the airline industry in which workers agreed to lower salary and benefits in order to keep a job. The systematic destruction of the American middle class continues. This alone should be a wake up call to all workers, but the vast majority of the middle class is still blisfilly unaware and is inundated daily with sensational murders or Paris Hilton, or Britany Spears, American Idol, etc. instead of real news. When they awake, as they are slowly doing today, it will already be too late.

Today everything is China or India. Accounting services? Outsourced to India. Got an electrical outage? Call your local electric company and you will be speaking to India? Got a problem with your computer? You'll be speaking to India. Need x-rays examined? Many hospitals send them to India via the internet for analysis. Need drafting work for your new building? India! Need a product cheaper? China. Need cheaper food and vegatables? China. I even heard when I was in Japan recently that the Shinkansen orders all their obento from China as it is cheaper to have it airlifted daily than to manufacture it in Japan! So it is not only happening in the US!

70% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck and are two paychecks away from bankruptcy and losing their home should they lose their job. The average American has over $8,000 in credit card debt and negative savings. It is only the availability of easy credit that keeps most above water. Sad.

I could go on and on, but I guess you get the picture. If you don't, then you are blind to the facts on what is unfolding before your very eyes on a daily basis.

Yes, The US has changed drastically and will continue changing until it no longer exists as we know it and I no longer desire to live here or to ever live here again. I will take my chances in Japan where I at least know I will be safe and will have virtually no fear of being murdered or my house invaded in times of crisis, or being mugged in the street or my wife raped. In Japan people tend to stick together in times of crisis and to help one another and it is still relatively safe. In the US you're on your own and no one will come to your aid when a gang of thugs decides to break into your home to take what you have at will.

The recent, so-called "celebration" called "Juneteenth" where African-Americans celebrate there freedom from slavery was marred by riots and beatings in Milwaukee and Texas, but was hardly reported on the news. The lack of jobs and education is a major cause. Do I want to be around for this when America falls, as it will in the next few years? Hell no! Check out this link with videos from MC Hammer to see what all Americans will face in times of crisis. Is this a celebration? And don't believe that this will come at the hands of African-Americans only. It will come at the hands of all those that didn't want to make it and will take it from those that did. As the video on MC Hammer's site failed to show the full extent of the riots, check out this link from YouTube as, even though it has racist overtones, it is the only one I could find that showed the video in it's real context.

This is just a preview and I sure as hell am not going to be here when America crashes as it eventually will. America is the largest debtor nation the world has ever seen and if it weren't for the Japanese and Chinese purchasing the majority of T-Bills at the rate of US$3 billion PER DAY we would be already sunk as our money is virtually worthless.

Don't get me wrong here. I am not wearing rose-colored glasses thinking that Japan is all that and I am well aware that the Japanese government is beholden and under the thumb of the elitist global corporations and the neocons of the US government. I just feel that I will have a much better chance of survival in Japan than in the US.

Do I sound bitter? You're damn right I do as the future of the US is a bleak one indeed and if you do not believe it than you yourself are disillusioned and ignorant of the facts playing out before your very eyes. Yes, I will take my chances in Japan where at least I know I have a glimmer of hope to survive the coming crisis facing not only America, but the world as a whole.

And if you are presently living in Japan making a decent living I suggest that you stay there as what will you do here? Work in Wal-Mart or Circuit City or in your present profession making well under what you are probably making now? In reality there is really nothing left here save for a few elitist jobs at major corporations, but you better be willing to toe the line or you will be on the bread line.

Therefore, Jersey Boy, I feel you made the right move and you presented your reasons well. You saw the handwriting on the wall and you moved back as you saw that was the best alternative under the present and everchanging circumstances. I wish you well.
 
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Pachipro, your comments above are mirroring mine as they are some of the reasons I decided to leave that country. I felt the tidal shift which would have affected my future if I stayed there. Originally I left Japan more than 10 years ago as I wanted to try out USA. Now, I decided to come back to Japan.
 
My comments are strictly based on what I've seen and experience in NY Metro, upstate NY rural areas, NJ suburbs, MD, CT, VA, PA, and NC.
NYC, NJ (sadly), much of MD and urban PA I can understand, but upstate NY? Are you serious? Some of the nicest people I've ever met are from rural PA or upstate NY.

Interestingly enough, many of the places you list are bastions of liberalism. Usually, people associate bigotry and overall jerkitude/uncivility with conservatives.

I am not here to start I-hate-this-country type of thread as that does not make me feel any better and also that does not achieve any purpose because each person's perspective and experience would be different anyway.
Hahaha! Too late! :LOL:

Gentleman10 said:
This reason why behind this is easy to identify: Self interest vs group interest. (us v japan). Both schools of thought have their good and bad reprecussions, and this is one of the bad for the us
I wouldn't consider Japan to be group-interest oriented, but rather, possessed of an "I don't want to rock the boat/don't want to be responsible for something/it's somebody else's problem" mentality. The U.S. always had individualism tempered by responsibility. Until recently. Thank you, "Me Generation".

gaijinalways said:
As to people being rude and arrogant there, I haven't noticed that anymore than other places in the US. Certainly most of the Northeast would be more fast paced than rural NC or the Midwest, though than again, if you lived or visited in northern NH, VT, or ME, you would feel very much at home.
The Mid-Atlantic seaboard from DC to Boston is one huge chain of cities and suburbs. Almost all of NJ is suburbia (except for the Pine Barrens and the northern foothills), for example, because it is smack between NYC and Philly. These urban centers are bustling and busy, and people don't have any time or patience.

The West Coast is much more relaxed, even in the urban areas. And the midwest and mountain states (where guns are everywhere) are MASSIVELY POLITE (because everyone has guns, and shotgun shells are sold at convenience stores right next to asprin).

Gentleman10 said:
From the Western perspective, I think the results of independent conflict are self evident. Everyone kills rapes and maimes each other much more than in Japan. But once you think about it, are we socially pressured to hide our feelings and conform to the norm? Hell no we aren't. And as a result, is our suicide rate anywhere near as astronomical as Japan's...? No, because instead, as you said, I think Westerners (at least Americans) freely *express* emotions than hide them, and thus, we are a more violent people.
A lot of this is historical, though. A lot of crime is a result of poverty, miseducation (or poor education), and desperation. Crimes are highest among poor minority groups in the United States. The U.S. is not a homogeneous society, so these tensions surface often and sometimes with bad results.

Japan, however, is homogeneous. Strangely enough, there has been an upsurge in violent crime, perpetrated by obviously mentally disturbed individuals, rather than by the desperate and poverty-stricken.

In addition, the "American Dream" has been perverted from "self-sufficiency" to Fifty-Cent's "Get Rich or Die Tryin'" methodology. (Note: he didn't invent the concept, he just capitalized on it for his album title.)

Elizabeth said:
I dont know what to say except that is why I hate generalizations.
We historians are forced to work with generalizations in order to identify the social stimulus that provokes specific historical developments, and identifying exceptions to stereotypes can actually add further insight into the dynamics of social transitions. That being said, generalizations do have their place, but they have to be used properly. Most people wield them like a 10-year-old wields his father's gun.

gaijin punch said:
In my absence, I am afraid that the states has become less & less attractive. Current regime set aside, I feel I cannot simply mind my own business in even small American cities.
I took a 2-year break after college before I entered grad school, and that two years was enough for me to lose all touch I once had with the latest fads and everything. I can only imagine what it is like to be out of the country for a decade, then returning to a society and culture that you can barely recognize. It must be like traveling through a time machine.

Erekose said:
Personally Religion is a big item as in the United States to admit you are an Atheist publicly can have sometimes severe consequences.
As a counterpoint, to admit that you are a Christian publicly in the academic community is almost like coming out of the closet as a homosexual in a small town. The religious contingent may not have a right to shove it's beliefs down your throat, but they fear the loss of values and mores that an abandonment of religion can lead to... particularly that dog-eat-dog mentality that you were lamenting just now.

There's a good and a bad to all of the changes that have taken place in American society in the past forty or fifty years. Women and minorities have more rights and freedoms, for example. We can listen to rock and rap on the radio without a lot of censorship. But at the same time, we've lost a lot because we've thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

Of course Politics has its own issues in Japan, but they pale in comparison.
Ummm. No. The Japanese government has been showing itself to be incredibly screwed up lately, with billions of yen being lost, entire government departments being investigated, and best of all, everyone passing the buck to someone else. Even Abe blamed Koizumi for the why everything is so screwed. That's like Bush blaming Clinton for everything that's gone wrong during his administration.

In case you haven't noticed, the United States is horribly divided. In other words, there are plenty of people all over the place who have happily jumped on the anti-Bush bandwagon with those insulting Darwin fish on their bumpers (hate speech that somehow nobody complains about), and their freedom FROM religious ideologies (except for Islam, Buddhism, and paganism, they're okay, but anything with a cross is a no-go). In the U.S., there is an ideology for everyone, and you can play the victim card no matter which one you belong to. (For argument's sake, I just played it for the right-wingers, mostly because the left plays the victim card way more often.)

Japan has NO alternative ideology. The extreme left and right are considered crazy by the mainstream Japanese society, who basically act as sheep and follow the herd politically.

Beyond that, the Japanese generally treat gaijin like animals. (This, too, varies from place to place, but every single person who has been there that I have spoken to have told me this; even if they had an incredibly positive experience, they still attested that they had a feeling that Japan itself didn't want them there.) The police harass you regularly, and God forbid you get into an altercation of some sort with a Japanese person; you have no rights, and no lawyer can successfully defend you in a Japanese court of law--you are de facto guilty due to being gaijin the moment you step through the door. If this sort of thing occurred in the U.S., there'd be an uproar.

...wait a second, it has... WITH ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. Heck, in Japan, you can be a LEGAL immigrant and get treated worse than the U.S. government is allowed to treat illegals. And yet somehow, people don't wave signs in Japan and scream bloody murder over the unfair treatment of legal immigrants with visas in Japan. They just sit back and let it happen.

My point here is this: REALITY. Both countries have their good and bad points. Both countries have their strengths and flaws. No culture is ever 100% good and just. And if it was, truthfully, we wouldn't want to live in it, because none of us are 100% good and just. You have personal reasons for leaving the U.S. Good! That's awesome! But Japan is not some magical land of freedom that is waiting for you with open arms. No country is. America might sometimes tout itself as being that country, but it isn't.

For some reason, though, people still keep coming. That's because there are better opportunities, and maybe, just maybe, a little more equitable treatment for people. Is it perfect? Heck no. Does it have it's problems? Heck yes. Is it the great Satan, Mordor, or anything else that is Profoundly Negative and All-Encompassingly Evil despite the oxymoronic moral and cultural relativism that says that there is no way it could be All-Encompassingly Evil, and that the culture has every relativistic right to defend itself as said post-modernly relativistic thought would justify in the face of percieved threats to it's existence? No.

Are you going to Japan to get away from something you Don't Like instead of trying to Fix It? Yes.

Pachipro said:
Demopublicans and Republicrats, they are all in the game which is why they forbid Independents to run for office or make it extremely difficult.
That's because people are sheep. Not enough of us are militantly moderate, like me. We end up getting hated by everybody.

The U.S. is still a Republic based on democratic principles. We could start voting in better candidates from third-parties. But that would require people thinking instead of just listening to idiots like Rush Limbaugh, Michael Moore, Al Franken, and Bill O'Reilly, programming themselves with mental garbage like Leftist Godlessness and the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy.

Blanket amnesty will be given to the 12 – 20 million illegal aliens already in the country.
That JUST got shot down today. And the parties themselves were pretty split. Not down the middle, but at least 1/3 of the Dems voted with the majority of the Repubs, and vice versa.

I didn't like the plan, I think it was a band-aid, but it was better than nothing. I'm not sure if I am happy or angry.

This alone should be a wake up call to all workers, but the vast majority of the middle class is still blisfilly unaware and is inundated daily with sensational murders or Paris Hilton, or Britany Spears, American Idol, etc. instead of real news. When they awake, as they are slowly doing today, it will already be too late.
Been sayin' this for years. Bread & circuses. Worked for the Romans.

Yes, The US has changed drastically and will continue changing until it no longer exists as we know it and I no longer desire to live here or to ever live here again.
Bada-BING! Right on the head.

I'd argue that it ceased being America right around the end of the 1950s and started becoming Something Else that Pretends to Be America. A lot of that has to do with babies being thrown out with bathwater, as mentioned before.

Heck, I barely recognize the country, and I'm not even 30 yet. When I read about my ancestors coming here, the Civil War, or page through The Federalist Papers, I get this horrific feeling that we are the People's Republic of American Soviet Theocrats rather than the United States. And worrying about what the poor British, French, Germans, Saudis, Aussies, and whoever else thinks of us is honestly distracting us from what we should truly be trying to do, which isn't to please the rest of the world, but to govern outselves properly.

In the US you're on your own and no one will come to your aid when a gang of thugs decides to break into your home to take what you have at will.
They would have once, but like you said, we've changed.

Nevertheless, I have a hard time seeing your Japanese neighbors coming to your rescue, too, by the way. Especially since you are a gaijin.

Therefore, Jersey Boy, I feel you made the right move and you presented your reasons well. You saw the handwriting on the wall and you moved back as you saw that was the best alternative under the present and everchanging circumstances. I wish you well.
Alright, I agreed with a ton of what you said, except for this last part.

Leaving America behind because America left you is shirking your responsibility to try to fix it. That's one of the reasons I'm an historian, I want to wake people up to the past mistakes, as well as the good things we've abandoned, and try to motivate people to make wise decisions in the future.

Then again, I am also somewhat of an Alcibiades, and get angry when my advice goes unheeded, and have a tendency to march off, ticked as all get-out, never to return again. So, I guess I need to remember to practice what I preach, because it is a very difficult row to hoe, and will most likely provide a very meagre harvest, more's the pity.

I love my country. I love it's history, good and bad. I love so much about it, and that's why it hurts me so darn bad to see things go the way they are. And that's also why it upsets me when people can just cut the cord that bound them to their country and never look back. Because that cord isn't one of ethnicity, color, or religion, but one of ethos--being American wasn't something that you had to be born with, it was something you could choose to be... and that's why, even if I die in some foreign land, be it Japan, or Taiwan, or England, or Mars, I'll always be an American, and no matter how much my country slaps me around and screws me over, I'll never, ever forsake it in my heart.
 
This is a damn good thread.

I just came back from vacation in Japan last night and I am still torn. There is much to wight on both sides, and neither is perfect.

This trip reminded me of some things that Japan offers me personally, as well as some benefits for all residents. Personally, Japan is a lot more exciting for me with my family's entertainment identity (I met Japan's most famous director, a famous actress friend, and was filmed for national TV in the first four days of my vacation). I was also reminded of the benefits of the Japanese medical system when we had to take our daughter to the hospital at 2 am and were seen in minutes, had an x-ray and throat culture done done for her and were out the door for 12000 yen - without insurance.
On the negatives, the air quality is still bad though smoking seems to be way, way down. I also found it frustrating trying to get cold medicine without visiting a doctor. I'm used to strolling into a CVS for cough medicine.
It's also amazing how quickly one can forget Japan's tight living quarters.

I love America and its true ideals, but when I look for the place where my half-Japanese daughter will have a better life it's hard to stay away from Japan...
 
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