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Is Japan a Western country?

Is Japan a Western country (please read the thread before)

  • Yes

    Votes: 41 10.4%
  • Maybe, depends how you see it

    Votes: 137 34.8%
  • No

    Votes: 204 51.8%
  • Don't know

    Votes: 13 3.3%

  • Total voters
    394
I think first we need to determine which planet it is on, as it is certainly not Earth.
Secondly, I'd say it is about to become a third world country.

Read this before you jump at me again for bashing Japan.

Conclusion is simple, if they don't wake up soon, they will drown.


it needs a long adjustment after prosperity as long as the country is not ruined in the future.

it is good for Japan to become a third world country.
then ppl would realize what Japan should do..
It might be quite different from what you say maybe....
It is still melancholic in the heaven now.

however such things are not a problem at all
The Japanese made a lot of sacrifices for that.


The sound of the Gion Shōja bells echoes the impermanence of all things; the color of the sāla flowers reveals the truth that the prosperous must decline. The proud do not endure, they are like a dream on a spring night; the mighty fall at last, they are as dust before the wind.
 
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Read this before you jump at me again for bashing Japan.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2005689,00.html

Conclusion is simple, if they don't wake up soon, they will drown.

despairhpng-1.jpg


:?

I don't think Japan is a western country. It's not experiencing the growth of the eastern countries around it either. I find that particularly disheartening. It seems that quite a few of the problems Japan is facing is due to it's ineffectual and outdated methods of policy/decision making. Now is the time for growth, and they've bogged themselves down. So, in my opinion, Japan is in fact not a western country, but a country stuck in the past. It's really a shame too.

Thanks for a link to that article. It was a good read.
 
The sound of the Gion Shōja bells echoes the impermanence of all things; the color of the sāla flowers reveals the truth that the prosperous must decline. The proud do not endure, they are like a dream on a spring night; the mighty fall at last, they are as dust before the wind.

I like this one.


True, I really hope they will learn from it, I think Japan needs a wake up call. My wish is for them to open themselves and their eyes a bit as well.

lol Thor, nice catch, i didn't see that link there.
 
Rather than thinking Japan as a "Western" nation, I think the kind of thing you're thinking of is a modernized country/industrialized nation. In that case, Japan is one of the most industrialized nations in all of Asia. According to the UN, Japan is considered a first-world nation. This means that they are highly developed/developed and have a high human development index: GDP, Literacy, etc. In fact, Japan is rated higher in terms of HDI than nations like the UK, Germany, and Portugal.

In terms of policy making, the higher the HDI is, the more developed the politics are- or, unfortunately, the deeper the scandal/bribing roots itself. For this reason, not only Japan, but America and even Australia goes through months of debating for a simple issue. Nations that have a lower HDI tend to show more simplified politics as in entire parties can shift, thus policy making is, though more complicated, less corrupt. At the lowest form of HDI, we get nations run by warlords who, if you think about it, makes policies very quickly.

Guys, be a little more educated before you make claims that Japan sucks, or is Western as said before, is third-world. That's just plain stupid XP
 
Rather than thinking Japan as a "Western" nation, I think the kind of thing you're thinking of is a modernized country/industrialized nation. In that case, Japan is one of the most industrialized nations in all of Asia. According to the UN, Japan is considered a first-world nation. This means that they are highly developed/developed and have a high human development index: GDP, Literacy, etc. In fact, Japan is rated higher in terms of HDI than nations like the UK, Germany, and Portugal.
In terms of policy making, the higher the HDI is, the more developed the politics are- or, unfortunately, the deeper the scandal/bribing roots itself. For this reason, not only Japan, but America and even Australia goes through months of debating for a simple issue. Nations that have a lower HDI tend to show more simplified politics as in entire parties can shift, thus policy making is, though more complicated, less corrupt. At the lowest form of HDI, we get nations run by warlords who, if you think about it, makes policies very quickly.
Guys, be a little more educated before you make claims that Japan sucks, or is Western as said before, is third-world. That's just plain stupid XP


i ll be short. you speculating like about how good in bed is your neighbour:s sister without having a chance to shagg her. I dont care what numbers say or indicators, but for past 10 years i have noticed a huge recession and its rolling. I am not sure if you have ever been to Japan for a period longer than 2 weeks (pun intended), but if not, you are speculating and basing your opinions on what you read. I tell you from experience and what i can see every day. I am not sure there is a point to talk more about it, it's like chatting about war with people that have never seen one.
 
Recession is a recession. The recovery rate at which a country can respond to one is dependent on the HDI. If a country lacks the government organization, the education, and infrastructure to respond to it, then it wouldn't be just a recession, it would be a collapse.

Also, just because I said Japan is a modernized country hardly means that it is a wealthy country. A modernized country is one where it is exhibiting habits that are considered modern or accepts a style that is also well accepted by that country's contemporaries. For example, the construction materials, music style, dress style, and even military weapons are all factors of modernization. Though more wealthier countries tend to be the most modernized, that is not true for all countries.

No offense Ryuu, but learn the definition before you fabricate your own.
 
Recession is a recession. The recovery rate at which a country can respond to one is dependent on the HDI. If a country lacks the government organization, the education, and infrastructure to respond to it, then it wouldn't be just a recession, it would be a collapse.

Also, just because I said Japan is a modernized country hardly means that it is a wealthy country. A modernized country is one where it is exhibiting habits that are considered modern or accepts a style that is also well accepted by that country's contemporaries. For example, the construction materials, music style, dress style, and even military weapons are all factors of modernization. Though more wealthier countries tend to be the most modernized, that is not true for all countries.

No offense Ryuu, but learn the definition before you fabricate your own.

If country is modernized it means it has money for it (or prints it like crazy). It's a easily drawn conclusion. I don't care aboiut definitions, politics and economy tbh, just not my cup of tea. Whether it is HDI, FBI or STD i could not care less. Also, numbers won't give you the full answer and if you base your opinion on them it shows how little you saw.
Again, have you been to Japan or not?
 
No I have not been to Japan. So. Basically, you're basing the entity of the country on what you personally have seen. That in of itself is a biased, not comprehensive, and overall rather provincial point of view. Just living in the country means nothing to the overall status of it. The only way your point of view would be valid is if you've lived with the poorest of the poor and the richest of the rich in all provinces and all cities of the country.

You're a single man. If we could base everything off a person's view, then we wouldn't have national surveys, censuses, study groups, and polls. And like I said, the actual definition of modernization doesn't mean money. You can't change the definition on a whim. Look it up on wikipedia or google, or even the dictionary.
 
i ll be short. you speculating like about how good in bed is your neighbour:s sister without having a chance to shagg her. I dont care what numbers say or indicators, but for past 10 years i have noticed a huge recession and its rolling. I am not sure if you have ever been to Japan for a period longer than 2 weeks (pun intended), but if not, you are speculating and basing your opinions on what you read. I tell you from experience and what i can see every day. I am not sure there is a point to talk more about it, it's like chatting about war with people that have never seen one.

First set of italics:

What in the Hell was that supposed to allude to in the first place?

Second set of italics:

Talk is cheap, and therefore much more easier to invest in than actually putting in the effort to make a difference. It's the same with the disgruntled citizens across the US: All people ever do is piss and moan about the situation being beyond their control when it's really the opposite. Granted I could put the effort into rallying people myself, but it's easier - so much easier - to just sit on our asses and just rant and rave about the sorry state of the world.
 
If you are looking at the traditional lifestyle and geographical side of being 'Western', then no, Japan is not a Western country. But if you are looking at the modern, technologically advanced side of things, then yeah, Japan is Western.

It's quite a difficult question to answer.
 
Western = Christian background (common history, values, morals, culture)

Japan also has a Christian background, though not as big as in many other countries.
Have you ever been to Kyushu? Especially in Nagasaki Prefecture you'll still find a lot of traces of the former Christian life.

To me Japan tries to keep its uniqueness and traditions, but also tries to become more Western by adapting many things (fashion, brands, holidays, music etc.) from the West.
 
Japan is trying to be a Western country since the Meiji Era.
But I dont think Japan is a western country. I think they have retained much of their culture intact.

In my opinion, the Japanese people looks western on the outside. But inside they are very much conservative Eastern thinking.

Well, it really depends on how you see it.
 
Never japan will be a western country ! No way ! People are different, Food is different (they eat more japanese food than mcdonald, i don't care how much mcdonald is famous), man thats an interesting strange country of there !
 
It depends upon how you look at it.

Japan isn't a Western country in terms of culture, heritage, history, and such.

Japan is a Western country in terms of it being the most "westernized" country in Asia in terms of material culture, secular accomplishments, etc.
 
This is a fascinating question from a cultural perspective.

During the Meiji era, Japanese scholars redrew maps to make the "West" end at Japan and start at Korea in an attempt to distance themselves from "Eastern" nations. This was because of a stigma against the east from the Western nations, which had all of the political (and, importantly, negotiation powers. Harris's Treaty of Amity and Commerce is a good example of this). To gain respect from the West, Japan attempted to redefine itself as a "Western" country.

Fukuzawa Yukichi (a really famous Meiji scholar) wrote up "Western Civilisation as Our Goal" - I heartily recommend reading it as it sums up the Meiji mindset of the West and Western civilization perfectly. Especially since it left wiggle room for the landscape to change as Japan became more 'civilised.' Fascinating document.

Anyway, as time went on and the concept of nihonjinron shifted from a more "Japan is different in bad ways that need fixing to remove them" to a "Japan's differences make us ethnically superior and should be enforced on others" during the late Taisho and Showa eras, Japan ceased wanting to be "like the west" in most aspects sans power.

Nowadays, the concept of nihonjinron has shifted back somewhat to "Japan is immutably different and this is neither good nor bad, with a slight emphasis on bad." It is now immutable, which is a large reason why non-Japanese ethnicities will basically never be considered "Japanese," no matter how culturally Japanese they may be (with some exceptional areas like Okinawa, which is much more open to hybridized and shifting identities).

The reason your question is interesting is that your question implies a certain level of reverse assignment, where we in the west are assigning, or attempting to assign "Western" status on Japan, which is something we (at the national discourse level) scoffed at well up until the end of the Ruso-Japanese war, and again during WWII.

The tables have turned and it's really interesting.

(I may have ranted a bit too long for my first post on these forums, but the Japanese sense of identity [specifically as it relates to the non-racially-Japanese] is one of my focuses in school)
 
This is a fascinating question from a cultural perspective.

During the Meiji era, Japanese scholars redrew maps to make the "West" end at Japan and start at Korea in an attempt to distance themselves from "Eastern" nations. This was because of a stigma against the east from the Western nations, which had all of the political (and, importantly, negotiation powers. Harris's Treaty of Amity and Commerce is a good example of this). To gain respect from the West, Japan attempted to redefine itself as a "Western" country.

Fukuzawa Yukichi (a really famous Meiji scholar) wrote up "Western Civilisation as Our Goal" - I heartily recommend reading it as it sums up the Meiji mindset of the West and Western civilization perfectly. Especially since it left wiggle room for the landscape to change as Japan became more 'civilised.' Fascinating document.

Anyway, as time went on and the concept of nihonjinron shifted from a more "Japan is different in bad ways that need fixing to remove them" to a "Japan's differences make us ethnically superior and should be enforced on others" during the late Taisho and Showa eras, Japan ceased wanting to be "like the west" in most aspects sans power.

Nowadays, the concept of nihonjinron has shifted back somewhat to "Japan is immutably different and this is neither good nor bad, with a slight emphasis on bad." It is now immutable, which is a large reason why non-Japanese ethnicities will basically never be considered "Japanese," no matter how culturally Japanese they may be (with some exceptional areas like Okinawa, which is much more open to hybridized and shifting identities).

The reason your question is interesting is that your question implies a certain level of reverse assignment, where we in the west are assigning, or attempting to assign "Western" status on Japan, which is something we (at the national discourse level) scoffed at well up until the end of the Ruso-Japanese war, and again during WWII.

The tables have turned and it's really interesting.

(I may have ranted a bit too long for my first post on these forums, but the Japanese sense of identity [specifically as it relates to the non-racially-Japanese] is one of my focuses in school)

Wow, I am surprised to see this question being reborn so to speak.
I think Japan has some very Western surface tendancies, but it certainly is not Western. Clothing, music, buildings, etc take on Western forms in many cases, bu the thinking behind them is very Asian indeed.

Ask a Japanese friend about;
What are you optimistic about?
How does religion play a role in your life?
What is your attitude to strangers?

The often typical answers will give you some idea of the differences between Japan and a Western country (though even this distinction is a bit vague with there being obvious differences between Western countries).
 
Wow, I am surprised to see this question being reborn so to speak.
I think Japan has some very Western surface tendancies, but it certainly is not Western. Clothing, music, buildings, etc take on Western forms in many cases, bu the thinking behind them is very Asian indeed.
Ask a Japanese friend about;
What are you optimistic about?
How does religion play a role in your life?
What is your attitude to strangers?
The often typical answers will give you some idea of the differences between Japan and a Western country (though even this distinction is a bit vague with there being obvious differences between Western countries).
Well, to say "Japan is Western" or "Japan is Eastern" is not a helpful statement.
If you come in and say "Japan is Western because of Capitalism and distinctly Western sympathies politically!" then you are ignoring centuries of Confucian and Buddhist influence, lots of political and economic trade, and the origins of the modern Japanese race.
If you say "Japan is Eastern because of Confucianism and Buddhism!" you are ignoring most of modern Japanese history, which has been interpreting Western culture and often replacing or erasing home-grown culture in favour of it, the blatant political sympathies Japan has for Western nations, and the way Japan culturally rejects the rest of Asia to the present day.
If you say either one, you ignore the most fundamental "Japanese" aspects of Japan that are not tied to either a stereo-typical Eastern or Western ideology. Elements like Shinto, literature styles, myths, and legends go by the wayside by trying to put Japan in a box of either the "East" or the "West."
In Japan, there is a large canon of literature that focuses on the question of "What makes up Japan?" To a discerning Japanese person, there are large chunks of Japanese culture that were based mimicking China for the first part of its history and then a large chunk imitating America and Britain in the second half. In a lot of literature, there is the trope of the man or woman who breaks down at the end, feeling alone and lost in the world asking "Who am I?" While I tend to disagree and find a richness in the unique Japanese literature and religious texts, it is a trope that is prevalent enough that most Japanese people would recognise it. It's even worked its way into some children's films (Metropolis, if I recall).
The fact that this trope exists at all really should tell you that this question is not a helpful one and, indeed, causes more strife than solving problems.
Ask someone in Norway those questions. I have, actually, because I was curious.
What are you optimistic about?
They answered that they are optimistic about going to school and raising a family. - I imagine these feelings are universal.
How does religion play a role in your life?
It doesn't at all. - One could argue that this is a more "Japanese" answer.
What is your attitude to strangers?
I love meeting new people! - This isn't particularly stereotypically "Eastern" at all, but if my friend had been an introvert I'm sure they would have answered differently.
Labels (provided they are self-imposed) are good and should be there to give us strength rather than to help others see you the way they want to see you. When you hear label you think it as something that should be assigned by someone else, but really it is something you should assign yourself (this is an identity). Japan has serious issues with this and does not allow hybridized identities in its national discourse (Okinawan-Japanese, Ainu-Japanese, etc) - don't disallow them the ability to be "Eastern-Western" in their national identity if that is the way that it tends to fit. Right now they're having serious social identity problems because of this disparity between a neglect of hybridized identity and the inherently hybridized nature of their cultural history - but let the Japanese media do that to themselves, don't try to make it worse.
 
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