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Comfort Women

Gentleman10

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It is true that Japan has apologized for past deeds, and that is fine, but when some people start claiming the deeds for which Japan has apologized for didn't happen, that's where the trouble is.


...sofar I think this is the most intelligible post I've read in this argument. I can't agree with you more.
 

KirinMan

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Obeika,
"do you not accept the UN as a valid "court" of testimony."
NO.
The name "UN" may sound something wonderfully authorized to you, but not to most Japanese people.
Most part of UN's activities are those of country clubs (lol).
They get much money from Japan (2nd largest cash dispencer for UN) and spend time and money for junk activities.
They gave public hearing for "victims" to tell their stories only, but not a single chance for Japan's justification.
Don't you think it is totally unfair?

You know what, forget it, I hope you enjoy living in your plastic bubble, because the rest of the world is just going to pass you by.

Originally Posted by miwasatoshi


It is true that Japan has apologized for past deeds, and that is fine, but when some people start claiming the deeds for which Japan has apologized for didn't happen, that's where the trouble is.

This truly does fit.
 

hanachan

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About the issue of Comfort Women, totally I stand by origami. Her opinion is not a minority in Japan.
Obeika, UN is a victorious nations régime. As far as veto is accepted, UN works only for the profit of some countries. The US uses it enough.
 

KirinMan

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About the issue of Comfort Women, totally I stand by origami. Her opinion is not a minority in Japan.
Obeika,

First off just because you may or may not be Japanese doesn't give you the right to talk for the majority of the country. I would never be so bold to say the same thing about my own country, you are showing your arrogance.

You have your opinion, but if by the off chance that the "majority" feel this way it is 100% due to a lack of education in schools about Japanese war crimes and Japanese wartime activities.

I doubt that tha majority are aware of all sides of the issue and only know about what their government feeds them, they can not make an honest judgement or opinion without seeing it from all sides of the story. Many/most(?) Japanese in my opinion are mostly ignorant on this subject.

Your arguments are similar to saying that you are innocent because of your ignorance.

How long do you plan to stay ignorant of what the rest of the world sees as fact?

How long are you going to live in your coccoon of belief that Japan is innocent?
 

hanachan

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First off just because you may or may not be Japanese doesn't give you the right to talk for the majority of the country. I would never be so bold to say the same thing about my own country, you are showing your arrogance.
You have your opinion, but if by the off chance that the "majority" feel this way it is 100% due to a lack of education in schools about Japanese war crimes and Japanese wartime activities.
I doubt that tha majority are aware of all sides of the issue and only know about what their government feeds them, they can not make an honest judgement or opinion without seeing it from all sides of the story. Many/most(?) Japanese in my opinion are mostly ignorant on this subject.
Your arguments are similar to saying that you are innocent because of your ignorance.
How long do you plan to stay ignorant of what the rest of the world sees as fact?
How long are you going to live in your coccoon of belief that Japan is innocent?
Thanks. Try to change "Japan/Japanese" to "the US/Americans". It's not so unnatural.
By the way do you ignore the latter half of my post?
Obeika, UN is a victorious nations régime. As far as veto is accepted, UN works only for the profit of some countries. The US uses it enough.
 

KirinMan

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Thanks. Try to change "Japan/Japanese" to "the US/Americans". It's not so unnatural.

Here is where I stop replying to you on this topic, you know very well that this has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

By the way do you ignore the latter half of my post?

Geez no, hanachan, I choose not to reply because it would be useless discussing this topic any further with you or origami, I've had fun with you two but to continue the discussion would be the same as banging my head against a wall, and I am not a masochist. Oh don't forget I could be asking you the exact same thing here, wink wink:eek:

Just remember this, the preponderance of the evidence supports the claims of the "comfort women". You can stay living in ignorant bliss and go on with your daily life secure in your opinion that Japan did no wrong, but please don't be one bit surprised or shocked when countries like Korea, China, Phillipines etc, continue to distrust Japan and the Japanese Government for refusing to acknowledge what was infact a truly horrific past.
Bye.......:)
 

pipokun

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...
Just remember this, the preponderance of the evidence supports the claims of the "comfort women".
...
What is the preponderance of the evidence?

The government does not deny the existance of brothels at all. As the Korean testimony in the interview during the war, Korean people would have killed Japanese if Japanese had kidnapped Korean women.
Composite Report on three Korean Navy Civilians List No. 78,dated 28 March 1945,"Special Questions on Koreans"(U.S.National Archives)
窶伉セ窶「ツス窶芭窶堙個静ュツ湘ェ窶堙??ーテッ窶堙≫?堋ス窶卍ゥ窶朗ツ人ヒ?藩??窶「w窶堙債、窶牢窶堙?スuナ?ティナステ停?堋ゥツ、窶板シツ親窶堙俄?昶?樞?堙ァ窶堙ェ窶堋スナステ停?堙寂?堋ゥ窶堙ィ窶堙??堋?窶堙ゥツ。窶堙?窶堋オツ鞘?板青ォ窶傳窶堙ー窶ケツュツ青ァ窶慊ョヒ?オ窶堋キ窶堙ェ窶堙篠、ヒ弖ツ人窶堙?ナステ。ナステ停?堙?窶卍ゥ窶朗ツ人窶堙最槌停?悳窶堋オ窶堙?塚??ケN窶堋オツ、窶堙??堙ア窶堙遺?「テア窶「ナ凪?堙ーナステウ窶堋ッ窶堙ヲ窶堋、窶堙??愿コ窶怒ツ人窶堙ーナスE窶堋キ窶堋セ窶堙ォ窶堋、ツ。
 

KirinMan

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Korean people would have killed Japanese if Japanese had kidnapped Korean women.

In an occupied country with the occupying army being Japanese do you actually expect people here to believe this?


What is the preponderance of the evidence?

Read through the links I posted in a previous post on this thread. There's your evidence.
 

pipokun

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In an occupied country with the occupying army being Japanese do you actually expect people here to believe this?
Read through the links I posted in a previous post on this thread. There's your evidence.
It was the American who interviewed the Koreans then.
Composite Report on three Korean Navy Civilians List No. 78,dated 28 March 1945,"Special Questions on Koreans"(U.S.National Archives)

I think it was the same military brothel as American, Australia or other countries during the WWII. Sorry I am wrong, but I've never heard of any supports for Chinese or Indian women in the US brothel in China.
I am not playing blame games here.
 

KirinMan

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I am not playing blame games here.

Noone said otherwise, but you have to admit there is a whole lot of testimony against the Japanese military for what they did.

I thinks its kind of hard not to notice if a ton of bricks drops on your head.
 

Han Chan

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So far no japanese PM has had the decency of regretting or even acknowledging the involvement of the japanese military involvement in running brothels:
"Prime Minister Shinzo Abe made clear Monday he will not offer a fresh apology on the wartime "comfort women" issue even if Japan is urged to do so by a U.S. congressional resolution.
"The resolution contains mistakes of fact," Abe told the Upper House Budget Committee when asked about his intentions....
"Even if it is passed, it does not mean we will apologize," Abe said.....
(AP) March 7, 2007.

By searching Japanese MOFA's webpage, I now realize that former PM Koizumi actually did write a letter of apology: (http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/postwar/index.html#issue):

"
Letter from Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi to the former comfort women

The Year of 2001

Dear Madam,

On the occasion that the Asian Women's Fund, in cooperation with the Government and the people of Japan, offers atonement from the Japanese people to the former wartime comfort women, I wish to express my feelings as well.

The issue of comfort women, with an involvement of the Japanese military authorities at that time, was a grave affront to the honor and dignity of large numbers of women.

As Prime Minister of Japan, I thus extend anew my most sincere apologies and remorse to all the women who underwent immeasurable and painful experiences and suffered incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women.

We must not evade the weight of the past, nor should we evade our responsibilities for the future.

I believe that our country, painfully aware of its moral responsibilities, with feelings of apology and remorse, should face up squarely to its past history and accurately convey it to future generations.

Furthermore, Japan also should take an active part in dealing with violence and other forms of injustice to the honor and dignity of women.

Finally, I pray from the bottom of my heart that each of you will find peace for the rest of your lives.

Respectfully yours,

Junichiro Koizumi
Prime Minister of Japan
"
I now respect Koizumi much more than before! This, though, makes the stance of Abe even more pathetic. "One step forwards and two steps back".
 

KirinMan

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Han Chan thanks for finding that and sharing it here, it is an official recognition that "something" happened and from what it sounds like a truly heartfelt apology. To the naysayers here on this thread it should also be noted that this is from the Japan Ministry of Foreign Affairs, but I suppose they will find some excuse to not believe it or to downplay it's significance.

Mmmm you are right about Abe, makes him out to look like an arse, particularly since he was Koizumi's hand-picked sucessor.
 
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Han Chan.

I am more than pleased with your research work! I never read that letter before, so I have forwarded this letter from the former Prime Minister of Japan to my group here in the Netherlands "The Foundation of Japanese Honorary Debts"

And YES, you are so right by saying; There are good and bad people everywhere! I learned that long ago.
Han Chan, a Japanese doctor saved my sister's life in May 1943 and I saw a Japanese soldier crying his heart out in August 1945, he had lost his whole family through a big bomb, so the other Japanese told us in broken English and Malay.
I learned very young that nothing is just black and white in life.
 

pipokun

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Noone said otherwise, but you have to admit there is a whole lot of testimony against the Japanese military for what they did.
I thinks its kind of hard not to notice if a ton of bricks drops on your head.
As I told you, the govenment did not deny the existence of the brothels.
Buy why were they the war crime?
No bricks are needed, but just your explanation.
 

KirinMan

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As I told you, the govenment did not deny the existence of the brothels.
Buy why were they the war crime?
No bricks are needed, but just your explanation.

Do you consider rape to be a crime?

Did you read my reply in a previous message? Look through the links and my answer is/are contained there.:)
 

pipokun

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Do you consider rape to be a crime?
Did you read my reply in a previous message? Look through the links and my answer is/are contained there.:)
Of course, it is a crime, but what about prostitution or military brothel?

Weary of war but ready for action: American soldiers set their sights on delights of Rio
http://www.guardian.co.uk/brazil/story/0,,1992939,00.html
Backstory
In the 1950s, during the Korean war, prostitutes known as "military comfort women" flocked to "rest and recreation" sites in South Korea to earn money from troops. During the Vietnam war, Bangkok was at the centre of a huge influx of soldiers, with troops dubbing rest and recreation excursions "intoxication and intercourse breaks". Saigon became a nightlife hotspot in the mid-1970s as GIs kicked back in bars and brothels, spawning huge prostitution and drugs industries. Little has been written about the sexual escapades of troops based in Iraq, although reports have emerged of at least one brothel in Baghdad's Green Zone. Some suggest that because Iraq is Islamic, and because of high danger levels outside camps, soldiers have looked to other regions. The increase in women soldiers is also cited as a reason for a decline in war zone "comfort stations".
To be fair, the UK also ran the brothel.
 
D

diceke

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Here is where I stop replying to you on this topic, you know very well that this has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
what?

There is nothing wrong with comparing and contrasting issues in different countries. I've seen some people compare Japan and Germany, but they usually refuse to compare Japan to their own country, especially if that highlights negative things in their country.

These history issues are not unique to Japan, and if anyone believes otherwise, he is in blissful ignorance.
 
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KirinMan

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Of course, it is a crime, but what about prostitution or military brothel?

I guess I would have to look at from the point of 1930's or 1940's law in China, Korea, and the Phillipines. Since the areas that the brothel's were in were occupied territories under Japanese martial law at the time I would be willing to bet that they were not illegal back then right?

Japanese law even today is rather "grey" in the area of that particular sector of the "service" industry.

But that's not really the point is it, the point is how 200,000 or so of these women were forced into servitude and in many cases brutalized, raped, and murdered.

It's like saying that posession is 9/10's of the law, once the girls/women were in the custody of the brothel there was no longer any "crime" committed. When in fact the majority of the women were coerced into "working" there,
then again it was during war time and who did these women have to take their case up for them back then? Not to mention the psycological fear of their captor's.

No matter how many "volunteered" for the work I can not in my mind imagine 200,000 women volunteering to "service" an occupying army during wartime, can you?
 

leonmarino

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I kind of left this thread because I felt that my questions were being answered only half. But I have now found an interesting clip on YouTube!!

Apart from the hilarious man from Benin (I was pleasantly impressed by his Japanese!!), I think the woman from South Korea makes a good point about why Japanese politicians "have to keep apologizing"; it's because there seems to be no one agreed upon view on Japan's historical past with regards to its wrong-doings in Asia during WW2.

One of the presenters doesn't seem very open to her ideas though.. Saying Korean politicians do the same!? Scary stuff.. 😌

ps: Try to see through the ridiculous costumes the presenters (including Takeshi Kitano) are wearing!! 😊
 

CBT1979

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Unlike Koizumi, Abe adressed an official apology about the comfort women who "served" the japanese troops overseas during WW2.
I really say much respect to Abe for handling this issue much more apropriate than his predecessor.
Of course the people who want the apology from Japan's government have not always the same intention. Some just want the fact stay true in history, some want compensation.
I don't think that most people especially the still living comfort women want Japan or any other nation apologize every year publicly, but don't want the history textbooks telling something completely different or played down.
The Tenno has not played down this and other issues related to the pacific war and Abe is on the right way to repair the relationships with Japan's neighbours. I cannot do much but pray that Abe's foreign policy succeeds to build friendship and harmony in the region with the leaders of the neighbours.
 
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origami

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Han Chan

--(quote)
I now respect Koizumi much more than before! This, though, makes the stance of Abe even more pathetic. "One step forwards and two steps back".
--(unquote)

Mr Koizumi wrote this letter of apology, but did not and still does not admit the fiction either. The fiction that Japanese military "kidnapped 200,000 women" and "forced them to work as sex slaves".

Mr Koizumi only inherited Kono Statement 1993 which was based on interviews with 16 ex-comfort women. At the interview in 1993, no request for hard evidence, no request for third party opinion, no questioning were accepted.

The sentence in Mr Koizumi's letter referring to Japanese military ("with an involvement of the Japanese military authorities at that time") does NOT mean that Japanese military kidnapped women and made them sex slaves.

Please read all my previous posts.
In my March 22 post, I wrote --

--(quote)
4)What Japanese military did were -- warning brokers against illegal or dishonest recruitment, ordering housemasters (employers) to keep his/her house in good sanitary conditions, sending doctors occasionally to houses , taking care of safe transportation of the women. All these were done for the health and safety of soldiers and civilians (prostitutes and housemasters, etc.) outside of Japan. Nothing blamable!
--(unquote)



Anyway, now that you have found Mr Koizumi's letter of apology, you admit requiring further apologies is unfair, don't you?
 

caster51

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I think the woman from South Korea makes a good point about why Japanese politicians "have to keep apologizing"; it's because there seems to be no one agreed upon view on Japan's historical past with regards to its wrong-doings in Asia during WW2.
about korean matter,
at first ,korea requested the Annexation.
some information about indonasia at that time
Asian History: Indonesian / Malay Perspective on Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1_bBEmihnQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UPNsOvfV-E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjSxpu7Z2co

Their purposes,It keeps apologizing to Japan.
https://jref.com/showthread.php?p=431383
 

KirinMan

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about korean matter,
at first ,korea requested the Annexation.
some information about indonasia at that time
Asian History: Indonesian / Malay Perspective on Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1_bBEmihnQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UPNsOvfV-E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjSxpu7Z2co
Their purposes,It keeps apologizing to Japan.
https://jref.com/showthread.php?p=431383

Ok so Indonesia threw off Dutch colonial rule, but all that ended up happening is they ended up trading one overlord who happened to be "white" to a Japanese one. This really isn't related to the comfort women issue.
 

E. Yamazaki

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I have never really understood why japan is so determined to not apologize for what happened but I wonder if it doesn't have something to do with that Japan was just imitating all the previous colonial period countries. Who too never apologized for all the autrocities that happened in Africa and through out Asia.
Couldn't part of the reason be the view that many Japanese have against Koreans? That Koreans are inferior and unwanted, and so don't deserve an apology?
 

caster51

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Couldn't part of the reason be the view that many Japanese have against Koreans? That Koreans are inferior and unwanted, and so don't deserve an apology?
NO, they wanted...
According to Mirror for Americans, Japan by Mears, Helen
Professor Treat commments,".....every step in the process was 'correct' diplomatically, and the final annexation was consummated by....treaty , nor proclamation."As a matter of record, Japan7s annexation of Korea had considerably more "legal" documentation than most of the empire-building of the Western Powers.
why does japan need to apology
japan did not inveded them at that time?.
it was M&A with peace between japan and korea that korean wanted
 
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