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Comfort Women

caster51

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in indonasia ,the evidence is ....Japanese army made a brothel close because there was a violation that they were forced.....
 

caster51

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Elizabeth
5) In Indonesia (Semarang), several Japanese soldiers violated military discipline and forced Dutch women to become prostitutes -- which was an exceptional case, Japanese military shut down the house two months later and punished the soldiers at the same time -- all these military officials were accused after war and were pronounced heavy sentences
Japanese army exposed that and this brothel was closed by the Japanese army
I think it is enough
Dutch Gernernment should offer the doccument about that.

Dutch investigation...at that time
It is necessary to have licensed it for the installation of the brothel.
In addition, saying that women who worked then were working voluntarily was a precondition.
and Their(comfort women) voluntary signatures were also necessary.
 
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Sukotto

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I wonder if backwards male chauvinism, which seems to be present in all too many societies, including the US, has anything to do with the time it has taken on this.


Afterall, it took decades after Nuremburg and the definition of genocide to make systematic rape a crime against humanity. (see below) Why? Surely our fathers and grandfathers couldn't have such low views of women? I know more of previous generations have the delusion that women are somehow less than equal, but rape has got to be the next worst crime after child molestation and war.
In a judgment that is likely to have far-reaching implications for war crimes trials in Rwanda, Kosovo and East Timor, the tribunal elevated systematic rape from being a mere violation of the customs of war to one of the most heinous war crimes of all - a crime against humanity.
Friday, February 23, 2001 in the Guardian of London
 

caster51

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but rape has got to be the next worst crime after child molestation and war.
rape was naturaly prohibited by all....🙂
japanese amy's rule was too stric....
 

hanachan

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Afterall, it took decades after Nuremburg and the definition of genocide to make systematic rape a crime against humanity.
It is caused by the fact that the Allied Forces was excluded from a prosecution object of war crimes of WW2.
It was not able to ignore a crime of Soviet Red Army troops if it took up a gang rape at Nuremburg trial.
 

Sukotto

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oops.

i misread the post just above.
so i cut out the bad parts and left some more meaningless rambling.




winners justice...

war crimes are committed during every war.
The US was not charged for mass murder for Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
Winners' justice no doubt.
Plus the trials after the war didn't go all the
way through, as the US helped a number of Japanese war criminals, including
'kuromaku' right-wing ultranationalist Kodama Yoshio & fascist Sasakawa Ryoichi, and Nazi war criminals via the infamous Operation Paperclip escape persecution so they could work for the US.
 

KirinMan

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winners justice...

I think that is the biggest gripe behind this entire issue. In my opinion after all these years that there are people with the attitude that Japan won the war and whatever it did during the war should be erased from history.
 

hanachan

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winners justice...
war crimes are committed during every war.
The US was not charged for mass murder for Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
Winners' justice no doubt.
I was surprised... because I've never seen a person from the US, who said so.
there are people with the attitude that Japan won the war and whatever it did during the war should be erased from history.
Where are they such people? Even if they are, the fact that the US is the only one nation which used A-bombs against Hiroshima and Nagasaki, could not be erased from history.
You would not answer me on this thread. I forgot.
 

Han Chan

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It is caused by the fact that the Allied Forces was excluded from a prosecution object of war crimes of WW2.
It was not able to ignore a crime of Soviet Red Army troops if it took up a gang rape at Nuremburg trial.

It is estmated that the Soviet Red Army troops raped around 100,000 girls and women when they conqered Berlin in 1945. The Russians government are not willing to admit this. Even though the Soviet Army were on the winning side their abuses are not forgotten!

Because rape used to be a viscious integrated part of warfare the japanese were very fearfull of the US soldiers in the days leading up to the occupation in 1945. Though, some abuse did take place, the US soldiers were far more diciplined.
 

Goldiegirl

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Rape is less about sex and more about power and control. It has occured on every "side" of every war. Terrible for women, yet somehow I think inevitable. Very sad indeed...
 

KirinMan

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Here is a link to a news report about this issue, dated Friday, March 30, 2007
taken from the article;

Japan to Revise Books on WWII Suicides

Abe set off a storm earlier this month when he claimed there was no evidence that Japan's army forced women to work in military brothels during World War II. Historians estimate up to 200,000 women, mostly Chinese and Korean, were forced into prostitution by Japanese soldiers.

Most textbooks approved Friday touched on Japan's wartime brothels but did not discuss whether women were coerced or whether the Japanese military was involved, Kyodo News agency reported.

Abe's comments backtracked from a 1993 government admission that the Japanese military forced women into prostitutionOn Monday, he tried to quell the backlash with an apology to the victims, but stopped short of acknowledging that Tokyo forced thousands into sexual slavery.

On Saturday, a private Japanese fund set up in 1995 to help the so-called "comfort women" will expire, wrapping up a mission seen as falling short of expectations.

The Asian Women's Fund, created to heal wounds from Japan's often brutal expansion through the region during the war, provided 285 women in the Philippines, South Korea and Taiwan with $17,800 each in compensation, helped set up nursing homes for former Indonesian sex slaves and offered medical assistance to some 80 Dutch victims.

But many victims rejected the aid because it neither came directly from the government nor was accompanied by an official apology. The fund will disband Saturday with the dismantling of the nursing home program in Indonesia, its last project.

The head of the fund, Haruki Wada, acknowledged the results of the effort "were rather ambiguous, but it was the best we could do at that time."

"As far as Japan's reconciliation with Asian neighbors is concerned, our achievement was insufficient," he said.

So to you naysayers here if Japan wasn't guilty of anything why did they even attempt to do anything?
 

origami

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I am still not qualified to paste URLs here, I quote good entries of good blogs authored by foreigners.

The following is March 3 entry of the blog "Occidentalism" by Matt (an Australian who lives in Sydney, he can write/read Hangul, Chinese, Japanese, too)


===========Quote

Comfort woman gives contradictionary testimony

Recently there have been hearings in the US house of representatives to condemn Japan for its involvement in the comfort women system. A Korean woman that claims to be a former comfort woman appeared before the house of representatives to give testimony. The woman, Lee Yong-soo, gave testimony that in the house of representatives that contradicts her earlier testimony.

Excerpt of testimony in the house of representatives -

In the autumn of 1944, when I was 16 years old, my friend, Kim Punsun, and I were collecting shellfish at the riverside when we noticed an elderly man and a Japanese man looking down at us form the hillside. The older man pointed at us with his finger, and the Japanese man started to walk towards us. The older man disappeared, and the Japanese beckoned to us to follow him. I was scared and ran away, not caring about what happened to my friend. A few days later, Punsun knocked on my window early in the morning, and whispered to me to follow her quietly. I tip-toed out of the house after her. I lift without telling my mother. I was wearing a dark skirt, a long cotton blouse buttoned up at the front and slippers on my feet. I followed my friend until we met the same man who had tried to approach us on the riverbank. He looked as if he was in his late thirties and he wore a sort of People’s Army uniform with a combat cap. Altogether, there were five girls with him, including myself.

Testimony given previously -

Lee Yong-soo, 78, a South Korean who was interviewed during a recent trip to Tokyo, said she was 14 when Japanese soldiers took her from her home in 1944 to work as a sex slave in Taiwan.
ツ“The Japanese government must not run from its responsibilities,ツ” said Lee, who has long campaigned for Japanese compensation. ツ“I want them to apologize. To admit that they took me away, when I was a little girl, to be a sex slave. To admit that history.ツ”
ツ“I was so young. I did not understand what had happened to me,ツ” she said. ツ“My cries then still ring in my years. Even now, I can’t sleep.ツ”

Obviously these testimonies contradict each other, and in normal circumstances would call into doubt the validity of the claim of being forced to be a sex slave. However, in the comfort woman controversy, anyone that even dares to doubt the testimony of a self described former comfort woman is an evil beast that supports the sexual slavery of women. Truly examining the testimonies the comfort woman has reached level of an untouchable taboo.

Lee Yong-soo is not the only person claiming to be a former comfort woman to give contradictory testimony. There are many. From what I have read from comfort woman supporters, the contradictory testimonies can be accounted for by -

*The interviewers of the comfort women are injecting their own words into the testimony
*The women suffer from a ツ“fragmentationツ” of memory, and thus unable to give a consistent chronological account of their experiences

Which testimony are we supposed to believe? Since questioning the factual validity of womens testimonies is taboo, we are expected to believe every single testimony, even those that contradict each other. I think there is some truth to some of the testimony, but I do not think that testimony should be the only way of determining what happened. Testimony should be cross referenced with existing documents to determine what really happened.

=========Unquote


Friends, I do recommend you to get an access directly to the blog "Occidentalism" yourself.


Another entry of "Occcidentalism" March 6 by Matt, an Australian blogger.

===========Quote

More contradictory comfort woman testimony

Previously I introduced the contradictory testimony of Lee Yong-Soo, who appeared before a Congressional committee considering House Resolution 121, a resolution demanding that Japan unconditionally apologise to all of the 200,000 women it is claimed were kidnapped by the Japanese army or their agents.

Apparently Lee Yong-Soo has given other, different testimonies as well.

Here is some testimony by Lee Yong-Soo from an organisation called Unerasable Memory: Making reality a formal apology and compensation by the Japanese government for the female comfort women victims of the Japanese army! , that held a national meeting in Japan in 2004, there is another, different testimony from Lee Yong-Soo. Here are the relevant quotes -

1928窶扼ナ?テ伉坂?倪?堙娯?佚・テァツキ(ニ弾ニ丹)ツ青カ窶堙懌?堙ェツ。1944窶扼ツ、16ツ催寂?堙固スナセ窶堙可「ナ坦窶「ナセ窶堙昶?堋ス窶堋「窶堙遺?「ナセ窶堙ー窶吮?ヲ窶堋ス窶冕ツ」窶堙架廣ツ行窶堋ウ窶堙ェツ、窶佚、ヒ徘窶堙鳴。
窶堋サ窶堙固津」ツ、ヒ廣窶堙ェ窶堙?行窶堋ゥ窶堙ェ窶堋スツ静ヲ窶堙娯?佚、ヒ徘窶堙?、窶愿コ窶怒ナ坦ツ「ヒ?藩??窶「wツ」窶堙??堋オ窶堙??堙個青カナ?ヒ??堙ー3窶扼ナ?テ披?ケツュツ青ァ窶堋ウ窶堙ェ窶堋スツ。
In 1928 I was born in Daegu, Korea. In 1944, at 16 years old I was forcibly taken away by a man wearing a something like a military uniform to Taiwan.
After that, in Taiwan, the place I was sent I was forced to work for 3 years as a comfort woman for the Japanese army.

The war ended in 1945. How could she work for 3 years? Furthermore, during the war virtually all men wore a military style uniform.

Here is another testimony from the site of the Japanese Communist Party. The Japanese Communist Party supports the comfort women.

ナ?テ伉坂?倪?堙娯?披?コ窶覇ナクツェ窶堋ウ窶堙アツ(窶啖窶售ツ)窶堙債、ツ十ナスlツ催寂?堙?銃ナ停?「窶堙ー窶堙や?堋ォ窶「t窶堋ッ窶堙ァ窶堙ェ窶堙?廣窶堙ェ窶堙??堋ア窶堙ァ窶堙ェ窶堋ス窶堋ア窶堙?、窶ケ窶倪?堙樞?堙??ーツ」窶堙ァ窶堙ェツ、窶彭窶ケC窶堙俄?堙ヲ窶堙ゥツ坂?ー窶禿「窶堙ーナステウ窶堋ッ窶堙?ス竄ャ窶堙俄?堋ゥ窶堋ッ窶堋ス窶堋ア窶堙??堙遺?堙??堙ーヒ彙窶堋オツ、ツ「ナス窶樞?堙坂?氾ーナスj窶堙個青カ窶堋ォツ湘伉人窶堙??堋オ窶堙?債。ツ、ツ青カ窶堋ォ窶堙??堋「窶堙ゥツ。
74 year old Korean, Lee Yong-Soo talked about how she was taken at gun point when she was 14 years old, and when she resisted, she was beaten and tortured through electrocution to near death. Lee Yong-Soo told us ツ“I am a living as a living witness to historyツ”.

I can now count four different stories, all from the same person. If she is a living witness to history, then which story are we supposed to believe? What does Mike Honda, the sponsor of Congressional House Resolution 121 condemning the current Japanese government for the comfort women controversy, think of this? I do not think he cares, since all we have seen at the Congressional hearings has been one sided arguments and verbal testimony, without any sincere historical investigation.

HT to James at JapanProbe, and Tonchamon.

==========Unquote
 
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Han Chan

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The attempts to deny tre crimes of the past backfires.

New info are beeing unearthed by historians (Mainichi 18/4 2007):
"
Historians offer fresh evidence Japan's military forced women into brothels

Evidence submitted to the post-World War II trials of Japanese war criminals and acknowledged by the Japanese government shows its military forced Asian women into sexual slavery during the war, historians said Tuesday, citing newly unearthed documents.

The findings from the mass of evidence submitted at the 1946-1948 Tokyo war crimes tribunal contradict Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's recent denial that the imperial army directly coerced women to work as so-called "comfort women" -- remarks that triggered outrage among victims and protests from South Korea and China.

In one document dated March 13, 1946, and unearthed last year by Kanto Gakuin University historian Hirofumi Hayashi, Dutch prosecutors quote a Navy employee as saying women in occupied Indonesia were rounded up, accused of fraternizing with Japanese and abused as "a pretext to putting them in a brothel."

"I admit to have slapped these women with the flat of my hand; I also ordered them to undress," the document quotes Navy employee Shuichi Hayashi as saying. "I do not think these women were actually punishable, but their arrest ... was only a pretext to put them in a brothel."

The main verdict at the Tokyo tribunal -- accepted as valid by the Japanese government in the 1952 peace treaty between Japan and the Allied Powers -- also says the Japanese military forced women to have sex with its troops.
"These are clear cases of women being coerced into brothels," Hayashi told a press conference Tuesday. "These documents have been long known to the Japanese government. I don't know how they can ignore these."

Historians say hundreds of thousands of women, mainly from Korea, the Philippines and China, were forced into Japanese front-line brothels in the 1930s and '40s.

After decades of denial, the Japanese government acknowledged its role in wartime prostitution after another historian, Yoshiaki Yoshimi, discovered documents showing government involvement.

That led to an official -- though carefully worded -- apology in 1993, and the establishment of a nongovernment fund to pay the women limited reparations.
But right-wing Japanese politicians, who make up an important part of Abe's support base, have in recent months renewed efforts to roll back the apology.
They contend the women were professional prostitutes paid for their services and that Japanese military authorities were not directly responsible for establishing or running brothels.

Yoshimi, speaking at the same press conference, said that argument was refuted in evidence already acknowledged as valid by the Japanese government and called on Tokyo to offer an unequivocal apology, as well as compensation.

"The evidence is clear that the system of 'comfort stations' was set up, maintained and enlarged by the Japanese military itself," he said. "The government must issue a clearer message that responsibility lies with the military ... Japan should also accept legal responsibility, and offer individual compensation."

The new evidence comes as a committee of the U.S. House of Representatives considers a nonbinding resolution calling on Tokyo to fully acknowledge wrongdoing and make an unambiguous apology. Japan objects to the resolution, saying it is not based on historical fact. (AP)"
 

pipokun

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At a press conference, researchers will tell something about the issue.
But their logic sounds really strange to me.
They claim that they finally uncovered (UNEARTHED) the secret docoments at the Tokyo Trials and that Japan must have responsibility for the issue again becasue Japan had aleady persecuted at the Tokyo Trials.
Needless to say, Japan accepted the judgments of the trials and of other Allied War Crimes Courts both within and outside Japan. And, of course, Japan had already paid reparation to the countries concerned. And the documents are not secret at all.
PRC and Korea were not invited to the Treaty of Peace with Japan, however Japan and the countries normalised the relations with bilateral treaties.[/QUOTE

One more thing related to your country, Denmark.
The reparation also went to your country.
 
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Evidence submitted to the post-World War II trials of Japanese war criminals and acknowledged by the Japanese government shows its military forced Asian women into sexual slavery during the war, historians said Tuesday, citing newly unearthed documents
The findings from the mass of evidence submitted at the 1946-1948 Tokyo war crimes tribunal contradict Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's recent denial that the imperial army directly coerced women to work as so-called "comfort women" -- remarks that triggered outrage among victims and protests from South Korea and China.
In one document dated March 13, 1946, and unearthed last year by Kanto Gakuin University historian Hirofumi Hayashi, Dutch prosecutors quote a Navy employee as saying women in occupied Indonesia were rounded up, accused of fraternizing with Japanese and abused as "a pretext to putting them in a brothel."
.................................
This new discovery,
More than 30 years, it is already the document which anyone can know.
I knew a summary of these court in the days of a primary schoolchild.
When I was a primary schoolchild,
There was not the word of "Comfort Women".
A document of this court,
It is evidence to deny that the Japanese government and the Japanese military headquarters "forced to have sex".
If my memory is right,
As for the soldier, it was proved that it was Japanese military discipline violation.
And the soldier was executed.
 

KirinMan

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This new discovery,
More than 30 years, it is already the document which anyone can know.
I knew a summary of these court in the days of a primary schoolchild.
When I was a primary schoolchild,
There was not the word of "Comfort Women".

If that's true then why are Japanese people taking this issue up now. It isn't a foreigner that brought these documents to light, but a Japanese person.

To me at least that says a lot, and to have a newspaper like the Japan Times write an article about it, which btw I was surprised as it usually doesnt print such controversial material, means much as well.
 
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