Can you ever get truly "close" to someone who is Japanese?

[Emoni]

Well, I do think the language barrier goes beyond simply just being able to speak the language. You can know every single word in Japanese, or English and you still might not be able to communicate at all. There is so much said that is non-verbal that if this isn't included, you will never get by. Some examples were that when someone who is Japanese says yes, but they really mean no. If you don't pick up on this, then no matter how "clear" they spoke the word "Yes" it really doesn't matter, because neither people is communicating correctly.

I think this is one of the biggest problems I'm going to have if I continue with Japanese Language study.

 

[Elizabeth]

Well, I do think the language barrier goes beyond simply just being able to speak the language. You can know every single word in Japanese, or English and you still might not be able to communicate at all. There is so much said that is non-verbal that if this isn't included, you will never get by.

This is a serious drawback of relying solely on email as well. Case in point, you ask a good friend a reasonable favor on an important issue, they don't respond, you worry a few days trying to let it pass sure your Japanese has been fuzzy or illogical, call them up and "Well, yes of course I can do that" .... as if it were beneath their dignity to even justify your insensitivity in ever doubting it to begin with.

 

[Emoni]

Yup, I've learned the hard way about email... hehe

 

[kirei_na_me]

Yes, email is hard for anyone. Even for native speakers of the same language.

 

[Elizabeth]

Yes, email is hard for anyone. Even for native speakers of the same language.

That's true, but at least the ones I know tend to treat email like they would any written Japanese, much more formally than comes across in person or over the phone. While it seems English speakers tend more to write pretty much as they speak.

 

[Saria]

I have a problem of a the same nature but diffrent colture. he's Chinese. for the most part it isn't too hard to talk to him. but because his Einglish isn't too good somethings are hard to talk about. he said he would tell me anytging I asked. but somethethings I think he is eather afraid to tell me or just doesn't want to. because I'll ask him something & he won't tell me. but something will come up later & he'll tell me. Oro some times I just don't get that guy... but given the surcomstances I really can't complane.... too much

 

[akaisha]

Maybe he doesn't know how to answer the question at the particular momment in time?

 

[Golgo_13]

If the person you're having a hard time communicating was overweight, would this topic be "Can you ever get truly close to someone who is FAT"?

 

[Emoni]

Golgo, I didn't mean for the thread to be racist or cruel in anyway. If I ended up doing that in the end, I'm sorry.

I was mostly trying to figure things out that I probably never will be able to, and was trying to see if there was some sort of cultural barrier I just didn't pick up on, or find out more of relationship barriers that might exist in Japanese culture that do not in American culture. I'm still very ignorant of Japanese culture and behavior. There were no evil intentions behind this post, I promise.

It probably was me all along anyway. Please don't be mad at me for this topic, you helped so much when I was making that scroll I didn't mean to offend you.

 

[Golgo_13]

The fact that there ALREADY are plenty of happy Japanese (of either gender)+American couples out there shows that it's his personality rather than his culture.

To think that it's his culture assumes that everyone in his culture is the same way. I happen to be from the same culture as the person in question who has a hard time communicating--yet it doesn't mean I have the same problem.

 

[Emoni]

Ya... deep down I knew that, but it still didn't explain everything so I kept looking. When you don't feel good it is very hard to think clearly sometimes.

I guess I just needed to see it in black and white (or red and white with the forum colors I have set).

I hope you aren't too mad at me.

 

[Elizabeth]

The fact that there ALREADY are plenty of happy Japanese (of either gender)+American couples out there shows that it's his personality rather than his culture.

To think that it's his culture assumes that everyone in his culture is the same way. I happen to be from the same culture as the person in question who has a hard time communicating--yet it doesn't mean I have the same problem.

No, but reading the posts of people who have had problems establishing Japanese relationships the same issues tend to come up over and over. You don't find any members complaining their partners are too argumentative, domineering, snobbish, vulgar, effeminate or whatever. And one perspective on this prism is simply that they are too superficial or pleasure-seeking, for some tastes. Of course not prematurely trusting our own experience we could still do threads like this for Americans and all other ethnicities/nationalities to be absolutely sure these are reliable and valid comparisons.

 

[Emoni]

I guess the biggest thing is that when you have someone from a different culture, you take on an extra factor in how you consider their actions. At least that was the case for me, however incorrect I was half the time.

Especially if you don't entirely understand the culture that the person comes from. Someone who is American I would simply have experience and judge the behavior I saw. However, someone who is from a different country I would not be so quite to judge simply because there is the cultural differences. Not bad or good, but a hazed glass window that can make it more difficult to tell what type of person you are dealing with.

Add on 10,000,000 other factors that are going on at the same time, and you get one confusing mess, and 1 confused post.

 

[cricket]

I don't think the title or the contents of the thread is racist or offending at all,Emoni.This is a forum about Japan and it's people and culture and I think it's a good way or chance to discuss the culture, analyze,compare,argue and learn.Nothing wrong with it as long as discussed wholeheartedly.I think I'll be the first one to withdraw if something cruel or offending is being said.
I thought it's a good way to convey first hand experiences/opinions to those who loves Japan but never been here or stayed long enough to know things simply Japanese just as there are things I'm sure simply Americans or simply African things.

 

[Ewok85]

...is simply that they are too superficial or pleasure-seeking...

 

[Elizabeth]

I guess the biggest thing is that when you have someone from a different culture, you take on an extra factor in how you consider their actions. At least that was the case for me, however incorrect I was half the time.

Especially if you don't entirely understand the culture that the person comes from. Someone who is American I would simply have experience and judge the behavior I saw.

You really do just need to go there and observe the social machinary in action to truly appreciate these differences, Emoni. Americans brought up in the talk show tradition of trying to understand situations by analyzing their partner's underlying motives, empathizing with their deepest feelings, past history, personality, etc. will find themselves in a state of deep disbelief because these are simply not at all important factors to most Japanese people. Things I also would have thought unbelievably inconsiderate or crude my first time out now have a bit more context and are (almost) perfectly understandable .

 

[nekosasori]

I think it's possible to get to know someone whether they're open to it emotionally or not. In fact, having met lots of (non-Japanese) people who apparently lack self-awareness, I understand their underlying motives and values without their even realizing what they are themselves, or their talking about it.

I also think that as influential as culture is to someone's default behaviour, ultimately it's their personality and how much they value privacy that determines how close they let someone in, which is irrespective of cultural background.

Finally, I understand that though verbal communication may not have been as traditionally encouraged in Japan compared with many western countries, it's the quality of said communication that matters in the long run, not how many words are strung together and voiced. That's why I don't see the point of pub culture in Ireland - everyone talks, and a lot at that, but I haven't gathered any meaningful exchanges so far despite several attempts to talk with dozens of people. Just shooting the breeze is, in my view, an utter waste of time.

 

[Emoni]

I plan to go through a study abroad program for my Major in Japan. I'm looking foward to it, but it won't be for at least a year. I'm hoping that I'll learn much more by being in the country than just "reading about it" from books. However, I want to get my language skills high enough so I can learn as much as possible by being there, not just look at the pretty flashing kanji signs.

 

[Elizabeth]

I plan to go through a study abroad program for my Major in Japan. I'm looking foward to it, but it won't be for at least a year. I'm hoping that I'll learn much more by being in the country than just "reading about it" from books. However, I want to get my language skills high enough so I can learn as much as possible by being there, not just look at the pretty flashing kanji signs.

And if they offer semester long courses, in Tokyo? Osaka? that might be smarter than commiting for year before you find out whether it's really your cup of tea or not.

 

[Jean-Francois]

Sometimes I don't even understand myself. Therefore, I don't expect myself to understand others throughly.

Why don't Orientals talk about their feelings as much? e.g. Saying stuffs like I love you, I miss you & etc. It's because they think TALK IS CHEAP !

 

[Emoni]

The program goes by semesters. No worries.

As for the talk is cheap thing, yes I heard that too. I consider it cheap as well unless I know the person. Then I go by past actions, then it means something. So I CAN understand that to some degree.

 

[Areku]

Not as close as if they spoke fluent English.

 

[noodle]

i have read that some japanese believe that only other japanese can truly understand them. thus foreigners supposedly can't truly assimilate into their culture because they were born foreigners, period. and thus ethnic japanese who were not born on the mainland may be expected to just jump right into the culture though they weren't raised there. but it may be a case where believing in something makes it true. perhaps if you don't feel like other people (non-japanese, people who aren't your religion, whatever) can ever understand you, you forget to make an effort to be understood.

silence is also an important part of japanese communication, and that's something that's usually difficult to understand, when you're raised in a culture where silence is awkward.

 

[Elizabeth]

i have read that some japanese believe that only other japanese can truly understand them. thus foreigners supposedly can't truly assimilate into their culture because they were born foreigners, period. and thus ethnic japanese who were not born on the mainland may be expected to just jump right into the culture though they weren't raised there. but it may be a case where believing in something makes it true. perhaps if you don't feel like other people (non-japanese, people who aren't your religion, whatever) can ever understand you, you forget to make an effort to be understood.

I don't recommend passing as Japanese to find an intimate relationship for several reasons, but mainly they aren't likely going to make any concessions to Western ways and the novelty is going to wear off pretty quickly. Foreigners either have to have the temperment for it or not and there has to be something else besides Japan as a justification.

 

[kirei_na_me]

Amen, Elizabeth.

I've said numerous times that an intercultural relationship can't be taken lightly. I'm sorry, but it's true. It's reality.

What makes different cultures, anyway? It's true that every culture has characteristics to make it unique. Those characteristics include everything from what they eat to what they wear to their skills to their ideas and how they communicate. If the Japanese were just like us, well, they wouldn't be another culture. One shouldn't go around blasting broad stereotypes, but there are things people of a particular group have in common that make them unique compared to others. That's how we get different cultures. Right?