Can you ever get truly "close" to someone who is Japanese?

[Emoni]

Sometimes I'm just not good at direct... and when indirect I don't make sense. A curse.

Thanks for putting up with it though guys. When you're confused, it's hard to know what to ask sometimes.

 

[lacon]

this is a great discussion. i have a jap girlfriend and most of the time i need to drain my brain juices to know what she is thinking (and fail).

enomi-san, i guess you are never alone in this dilenma

oh yah, been a south east asian myself, i think eating is one of the most enjoyable way of life. personally, i like to try delicious crusines and go around sight-seeing but i am just simply not interested in the history of some places.

 

[ippolito]

My wife is korean and I understand her like an open book....but jp and kr are different in this case....

 

[cricket]

There is always a "wall" I guess. The most recent person, it was difficult to even maintain a friendship type of relationship, due to the fact they always had something else to do. Only many months later would they even mention doing something, and even that didn't seem to be the case.

My two yen thought:
The Japanese are not straightforward people.They say YES with a smile on their lips when in fact it means,I'm sorry,NO.This is to avoid being rude or to hurt the other party's feelings.You have to learn to read between the lines as there is always a honne (real thoughts or intention) and tatemae (a front).

I guess I'm wondering if this wall will always be there. If you can ever get past the cultural barriers and just "talk about anything." I'm sure this seems a bit of a silly question, but I'm still very lost in a lot of the culture and reasons, and probably always will be. It seems that I can be told how special of a friend or person I am, but then... I don't even hear from them again.

My opinion:
Maintaining contacts here is quite bothesome.You can't just go to that friend's house unannounced as that is considered inconsiderate.There is a sort of policy that you have to call first and agree to a date.You can't go there without bringing something.And it's considered strange if you talk about too personal or deep topics.To be able to talk in a deeper level,it has to be over sake/beer,and not in the house.Most of my friends are longtime neighbors,mothers of my kids' friends and classmates who,whether we like it or not,have to meet on some sort of regular basis because of the same interest and situation we are all in.

I also have some friends who I meet only once or twice a year for coffee or lunch and been going on for 20 years.One is a university teacher who taught me how to read and write katakana and hiragana..We always meet before obon and have a long long talk over lunch. (^^)

 

[kirei_na_me]

I have tried to make friends with Japanese people, both men and women over the years, and it never seems to develop into the kind of relationship I want/need. Only one person out of many have I been able to form a real bond with. Too superficial for my taste. I just keep coming back to my plain ol' Western homies...

 

[remember_august]

"Does anyone know how to make friends with Japanese people? Why is it so hard to make friends?"asked little Mackie >.<

 

[Mike Cash]

"Does anyone know how to make friends with Japanese people? Why is it so hard to make friends?"asked little Mackie >.<

The hard thing isn't making friends. The hard thing is finding some commonality to base a friendship on. "You're Japanese and I'm interested in Japanese people and things" usually isn't enough by itself.

 

[PaulTB]

The hard thing isn't making friends. The hard thing is finding some commonality to base a friendship on. "You're Japanese and I'm interested in Japanese people and things" usually isn't enough by itself.

Not even if you've proved it by memorising every Card Captor Sakura script and winning prizes for anime song karaoke ?

 

[Mike Cash]

Not even if you've proved it by memorising every Card Captor Sakura script and winning prizes for anime song karaoke ?

Especially if you have done that.

 

[byp]

I have tried to make friends with Japanese people, both men and women over the years, and it never seems to develop into the kind of relationship I want/need. Only one person out of many have I been able to form a real bond with. Too superficial for my taste. I just keep coming back to my plain ol' white(American and European) folks...

ah !
this is most difficult to say...
I must chose my words carefully, not to make you (and others) understand something I do not wish to say or do not wish to imply. I have read some of your threads Kirei na me, and you make a lot of sense. On this one I'm a little lost...
furthermore (as you might have noticed) english is NOT my mother tongue.
so I hope I'm not making a booboo here...

why did you precisely precise : "ol' white (american & european) folks", so excluding a very large part of the US population, with the same education & patriotic background as you, yourself, have received ?
why did you not say : "ol' american folks..." including as well your numerous countrymen of african origins ?

Does this mean, for you, that being a white human being, it is difficult to understand (and therefore get close enough to be friend) another human being with a different colored skin ?

Therefore it is difficult for any white person to understand any "other skin colored" person and vice versa ?

I do not believe that it is what you meant since (if I have read this forum rightly) you are married with a J-man ? Or is it what you meant and then it will mean you are / must be extremely unhappy not able to understand and make friend with your husband ?

I don't know what to understand and therefore don't know what to say. As I mentionned before somewhere else in this forum, ( ) I have been lucky enough to know, meet and make friend (and even lot closer) with Japanese, Chinese, Korean and many others, without difficulties. I don't really see where the problem is, excepted that WE might be the source of difficulties by our attitude, or we might well be the ground on wich we build the so called wall some are talking about further up.

If one is not prepared to understand and ACCEPT the difference that is bound to exist, then of course we might be all wrong.

If we expect a Japanese and an Inuit and a Chilian to be the same as an US american or a Swedish, then of course we will get into what is called a lack of understanding. How deep will this incomprehension be is a matter of one's education and open mindness.

Yes, as an european of long descent (see signature) I am aware of a difference, and I will accept it gratefully since I will always learn something usefull for myself or for others.

Yes I will repsect whatever difference there is, and I will not judge by my own standards, but rather try to put myself in the other's place. Most of the time it works.

 

[Mike Cash]

Regarding your sig.....that was me who called you a shallow, narrow-minded racist ***

No need to beat around the bush. If you want it known that I made such a comment, then come right out and say it.

 

[PaulTB]

Regarding your sig.....that was me who called you a shallow, narrow-minded racist ***

Though to be fair a more technically accurate description might be "A shallow, narrow-minded *** with a fetish for asians."

 

[byp]

Regarding your sig.....that was me who called you a shallow, narrow-minded racist ***

No need to beat around the bush. If you want it known that I made such a comment, then come right out and say it.

good boy !
you could have said it directly and " come out and say it "

Now, what is YOUR problem ???

Though to be fair a more technically accurate description might be "A shallow, narrow-minded *** with a fetish for asians."

yep, that seems more accurate

but then, you'r out of topic, and I suggest you both write to me, you can do so through privat mail
no need to bother others with your children's behaviour.
I'll go and change my signature. :jama:

 

[Ewok85]

Just cause your caucasian doesnt exclude you from being a "shallow, narrow-minded racist ***".

And your thread up above just highlights that. I think what kireiname was trying to highlight was Japanese-Americans.

 

[byp]

Just cause your caucasian doesnt exclude you from being a "shallow, narrow-minded racist ***".

you forgot the "fetish" bit, mate !... LOL

I think in your place I would abstain to give lessons about racism... you are in a bad spot...

And your thread up above just highlights that. I think what kireiname was trying to highlight was Japanese-Americans.

go back and read carefully.
maybe you'll end up by understanding what was said.
or maybe not...
which, of course, is of no importance whatsoever...

 

[Mike Cash]

good boy !
you could have said it directly and " come out and say it "

Now, what is YOUR problem ???

The very first time I noticed it in your sig, I did come out and say it. Or didn't you notice that?

The only problem I have is the character flaw of not being one to suffer fools gladly.

 

[kirei_na_me]

byp, you took my comment way too far. I was just saying it that way to be silly(as a joke). It's not that I exclude other races as friends. That's not the case at all. It just turns out that my closest friends have always been "Western". I should've said "Western folk" instead of "white folk". You're going way too far with what I said. A total misinterpretation.

The kind of relationships I desire, I have not been able to obtain with Japanese people. Sorry. That's the way it is. It's not like I haven't been around numerous Japanese people. I have.

Oh, and I changed that post...hehe

And am I missing something about the signature? :?

 

[PaulTB]

And am I missing something about the signature? :?

Only that you missed it. You can probably deduce it's prior contents by considering this thread.

 

[Elizabeth]

The hard thing isn't making friends. The hard thing is finding some commonality to base a friendship on. "You're Japanese and I'm interested in Japanese people and things" usually isn't enough by itself.

My two Japanese bosom companion experiences have been rooted variously in 1)coinciding areas of professional study and interests 2) a feeling of personal compatiblity, fascination with Japanese, finding someone I can always learn from, trust of the people and their loyalty to friends....and of course other things to top these off.

 

[kirei_na_me]

Only that you missed it. You can probably deduce it's prior contents by considering this thread.

Yes, I guess I can imagine what it said. I am guessing that it was something just as bad, or maybe even worse, than the statement I made in my post above.

 

[byp]

byp, you took my comment way too far. I was just saying it that way to be silly(as a joke). It's not that I exclude other races as friends. That's not the case at all. It just turns out that my closest friends have always been "Western". I should've said "Western folk" instead of "white folk". You're going way too far with what I said. A total misinterpretation.

Then I will humbly apologize, because I read what I read... And I thought it was some kind of a serious discussion, which apparently it was not... Please, Ms, accept my sincere excuses for misunderstanding the whole thing.

The kind of relationships I desire, I have not been able to obtain with Japanese people. Sorry. That's the way it is. It's not like I haven't been around numerous Japanese people. I have.

you dont have to be sorry, I can very well understand that. it looks like mikecash, paulTB and ewok85 dont get along with me, so it has nothing to do with Japanese not going along well with the rest of the world (or the other way round...).LOL. But, finally, they are nicer than what they want to show...

And am I missing something about the signature? :?

no, the story behind the signature was that "someone" sent me an anonymous message saying that I was a "shallow, narrow-minded racist ***". I just asked, in this signature, that whoever wrote that just come into the open. And he did. And that is all and the end of the story. Therefore I changed my signature back to what it was originally.

 

[Ewok85]

Hah, that someone has already said that they did it and I think they did it out on the public forums.... bah, wheres a wall i can bash my head against for a while?

 

[RockLee]

Hah, that someone has already said that they did it and I think they did it out on the public forums.... bah, wheres a wall i can bash my head against for a while?

hmm mate...he DID say he knows about it?! (see red highlighted text)

no, the story behind the signature was that "someone" sent me an anonymous message saying that I was a "shallow, narrow-minded racist ***". I just asked, in this signature, that whoever wrote that just come into the open. And he did. And that is all and the end of the story. Therefore I changed my signature back to what it was originally.

But anyways...this is an EXAMPLE of a LANGUAGE BARRIER??He didn't quite get what kirei meant...I think with ppl from another country this happens often and might be at the base of problems sometimes.Like when a Japanese person doesn't talk English 100%, he doesn't feel like he can have an OPEN convo maybe?(this was mentioned before) :?

 

[kirei_na_me]

But anyways...this is an EXAMPLE of a LANGUAGE BARRIER??He didn't quite get what kirei meant...I think with ppl from another country this happens often and might be at the base of problems sometimes.Like when a Japanese person doesn't talk English 100%, he doesn't feel like he can have an OPEN convo maybe?(this was mentioned before) :?

Well, surely the language barrier causes problems, but the Japanese are not into "open" conversations generally. Japanese are very careful about what they say as a (general) rule, therefore, not opening up much, if at all. They are so concerned with what other people think, that they will usually not let their true feelings be known. Anyone who has experience with Japanese people knows that. My husband's English speaking ability is not perfect, but somehow, when he's pushed to the breaking point, he can convey his message perfectly using English.

It's something you have to be around to understand. It's something you have to sense, really. There's no way to explain it.

 

[byp]

But anyways...this is an EXAMPLE of a LANGUAGE BARRIER??He didn't quite get what kirei meant...I think with ppl from another country this happens often and might be at the base of problems sometimes.Like when a Japanese person doesn't talk English 100%, he doesn't feel like he can have an OPEN convo maybe?(this was mentioned before) :?

language barrier ?
It could be, but no, not in this case.
it's just a lack of knowledge of a particular person and his/her way of thinking, his/her sense of humour...
I did not pay enough attention to the background... I should have known better.
specially when one deals in a language that one is not used to, which is my case with english.
anyway RockLee, thanks.

.... bah, wheres a wall i can bash my head against for a while?

corner of King William & Flinders, downtown, is just as good a place as any other, if you really want to bash your head. But it's not worth it. Really !!