How do you tell if someone is Japanese (without asking)?

According to genetic results, apporx. 50% or more Japanese are of continental origin (korean/chinese). However, there are significant jomon/ainu bloods in them.

I think on average, japanese appearances are nowhere in east asian.
My guess is due to the the distorsion introduced by jomon/ainu bloods, and their unique facial structures. I guess, there must be some japanese who could be almost deemed as chinese or korean, but there are japanese who is completely outside the chinese/korean facial features.

---------------
http://www-personal.une.edu.au/~pbrown3/brown99.pdf

The first modern East Asians ?:
another look at Upper Cave
101, Liujiang and Minatogawa 1
Peter Brown
Department of Archaeology and Palaeoanthropology
University of New England
Armidale, NSW 2351, Australia


MINATOGAWA 1
The Minatogawa 1 male skeleton was found in 1970 at the
Minatogawa limestone quarry on Okinawa (Suzuki and Hanihara 1982).
111
The first modern East Asians?: another look at Upper Cave 101, Liujiang and Minatogawa 1
Three female skeletons, in varying states of preservation, and assorted
other fragments were also recovered. The Minatogawa skeletons have
been described in detail in Suzuki and Hanihara (1982), with Suzuki
(1982) describing the crania. Additional comparative information can
be found in Baba and Nerasaki (1991). The Minatogawa 1 cranium is
not as complete as Liujiang and Upper Cave 101, particularly in the
basi-cranium, facial skeleton and temporal regions. Several of the
dimensions used in the analysis to follow had to be estimated.
Unlike Liujiang and Upper Cave there does not appear to have
been any concern over the reliability of the dating of Minatogawa.
Radiocarbon dates of 18,250 ±650 to 16,600 ±300 years BP were obtained
from charcoal inside the fissure (Kobayashi et al. 1974). Fluorine content
of human and non-human bones within the site suggested that they
were contemporaneous (Matsu'ura 1982). Assuming that the site was
well stratified, that the carbon dates do bracket the skeletons and that
the skeletons were not intrusive, then Minatogawa remains do have a
strong claim to being the earliest modern human skeletons in East Asia.


Overall, the scatter plot of Functions 1 and 2 indicate the relative morphological
similarity of the modern and Neolithic Chinese groups, while the
modern Japanese are closer to a wider range of East Asian and Native
American populations. Plots of the total group dispersions associated
with Figure 3 revealed the large degree of overlap between the Neolithic
and modern Chinese and between the modern Japanese, Anyang,
Hainan and Native American groups. The Eskimo and Ainu were more
distinct, as were both of the Australian Aboriginal groups.

Please note that northern and southern japanese are in the middle point between N/S chinese and ainu/jomon/minatogawa. This represents the japanese population
divided into the two completely diverged skull/facial structures.
 
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I presume that on the northernmost japan (aomori, akita, etc), people's face can have many features like ainu, jomon, minatogawa, but no chinese like facial structures could be expected, because of the genetic distributions of YAP+ and DE-YAP and some mtDNA markers.

facetype2gif-1.webp


The results show the average face of east asian (and some other related)population.

Please notice that N/S japanese faces are slightly different from N/S chinese. I think this is due to the ainu/jomon population and/or mixtures with natives and continentals.

Northern chinese are completely independent of modern japanese facial structures. Southern chinese are somewhat related, so the southern chinese tribes may have immigrated to japan through korea 2kya, which now comprises the 60% of total japanese population.

Please note the ainu/jomon (native japanese islanders) which should represent roughly 40% or less of total japanese population (by the results of genetic analysis) are really far apart from the N/S chinese.
 
So what does Ainu and Northern Japanese really look like?

Superficially, we have to consider the representative of the population rather than averaging out. I think the person from the noble family seems to be the most suitable sample for dissecting the phenotype of northern japanese.

Mutsu Munemitsu, A minister of Foreign Affair


He is nothern japanese. From a noblest family in northern japan.
His family tree is from Hiraizumi clan (Emishi related to Ainu).
His ancestor includes some figures like Date Masamune, and the origin of family dates back 1000 years ago,

The same person
Munemitsu_Mutsu_2-1.webp
 
Now, having said the nothern japanese (northern can be replaced by northernmost). I would like to mention about the southernmost japanese.
They are known to be related to Ryukyuan/Okinawan, and their phenotypes seem to be fairly ainu, but they seem to be mixed with continentals, so they show more varieties. Prime Minister Koizumi's family comes from the noble family in Kagoshima-ken, and he belongs to this class of people.

Togo Heihachiro, An admiral, A national hero in Japan-Russo War (no involvement in WWII)


Southernmost Japanese. His ancestor was a neighbor of koizumi's.

Togo Heihachiro in his 58 years old
 
Let's now look at KOREAN population.

Average (not necessarily typical) Korean face


http://www.andongkim.com/articles/20...koreanface.htm

Korean scientists allegedly produced what they call, "the average Korean face". The Korean Institute of Science and Technology information (KISTI) working together with the Catholic Institute for Applied Anatomy made computer tomographic scans of Koreans last year and with the aid of a supercomputer produced a "digital Korean" -- a 3-D video of the average Korean's physical structure.

Do you see much differences from the northen japanese?
« Zuletzt bearbeitet: Heute um 03:39:14 von newasian »
 
Now, Let's look at northern han CHINESE face.

http://www.angle.org/anglonline/?req...e=05&page=0393

Perception of Facial Esthetics by Native Chinese Participants by Using Manipulated Digital Imagery Techniques
Sample population

The Chinese rater group consisted of 85 native Chinese participants from Beijing. Of these raters, 38 were women, and 47 were men (45% women and 55% men). Their mean age was 26.3 ツ± 5.3 years.

Manipulated digital imagery technique

An adult native Chinese male and female stimulus face (A) was selected for digital distortion (Figures 1 and 2 ). Both subjects were 24 years old and were chosen because they exhibited Class I occlusions with average dental proclination and balanced lower facial skeletal proportions previously established as norms for this population. They were meant to be representative of the average facial profile for this ethnic group. Because the Chinese have a shorter than average anterior cranial base and a dental proclination greater than Caucasian norms, their ツ"normalツ" profile would be classified, by Caucasian standards, as bimaxillary protrusive.29,30 This profile was selected as representative of the ツ"normalツ" Chinese participant.


FIGURE 1. The ツ"normalツ" Chinese male stimulus face (A) with a balance of dental and skeletal proportions


FIGURE 2. The ツ"normalツ" Chinese female stimulus face (A) with a balance of dental and skeletal proportions
 
Komura Jutaro, Minister of Foreign Affair, Harvard Graduate


Akiyama Saneyuki, Hero in Japan-Russo, he retired immediately after the war, and commited suicide


Akiyama Yoshifuru


Last two people are not having any record of being jomon. They are southern japanese. I posted this because their phenotype is somewhere between japanese and chinese. Very interesting

The first pic of komura seems to be jomon.
 
AinuGroupJPG-1.webp

Group of Ainu people, 1904 photograph, taken in Hokkaido Japan

Due to intermarriage with the Japanese and ongoing absorption into the predominant culture, few living Ainu settlements exist. Many "authentic Ainu villages" advertised in Hokkaido are simply tourist attractions.[/img]
 
tagaki Taisuke, Born in Tosa, Home minister, Leader of Liberal Party, Precursor of LDP
Taisuke_Itagaki_4-1.webp

He is a southern japanese in Shikoku . Likely to be Jomon japanese.
 
Earlier, I made a rough assumption that:

60-70% of japanese are from china/korea.
30-40% of japanese are from the north of sibelia.

which is confirmed by the results in genetic analysis.

Now I will complete my posts by quoting the japanese people who are born in the country which is one of the closest to Korean Peninsula. Choshu .

Japanese Modernization actually comes from the union of Choshu (Yamaguchi-ken, Korea or Continental) and Satsuma (Kagoshima-ken, Native islanders such as Ainu, Ryukyuan, Jomon) Clan. It may be possible to compare the two? I think it is a nice idea to see the immediate differences with the earlier posted picture capturing only native islanders.

Let's now look at the central japanese people (Yayoi aka Korean/Chinese).

Ito Hirobumi , the first prime minister of Japan


He is a central japanese from Yamaguchi-ken. Geographically, Yamaguchi is one of the closest country to Korea. He could be one of the Korean-origin Japanese.

His obsession with Korea is known by his infamous annexation of Korea. [/img]
 
Another Yayoi (aka Korean/Chinese descent) Japanese

Okuma Shigenobu , The minister of Foreign Affair


He is from Choshu, Yamaguchi. He is a typical central Japanese.
His look is in contrast to those Shimazu-clan and northern japanese noble.
 
Katsura Taro , Prime Minister, Born in Choshu (Korean related)



He is the most tactful politician devising the overthrow of Shogun Regime, and hand the power back to imperial family. He was sent to Germany to learn strategy and tactics.

As with Ito Hirobumi, the first prime minister of Japan, his background is humble, and from not so wealthy background.

Japanese politician until Koizumi's (southernmost japanese)takeover of the government was Choshu-dominant, and most influential politicians are from this area of Japan (Choshu).
 
Now Let's assess the REAL Chinese appearance. We'll look at the historical figure again

Yuan Shikai, Han Chinese General, Republic president, dictator and chinese emperor


Yuan Shikai again
 
Zhou Enlai, Premier of People's Republic of China

Zhang Zueling, Chinese Ruler of Manchuria and Northeast china

Tse-ven Soong, chinese businessman, politician
 
K'ung Hsiang-hsi, Chinese Banker and Politician

Hu Hanmin, chinese Premier of Kuomintang

Jiang, Qing, Mao Zedong's Third wife

 
Observe that eyes of chinese are almost all clear double eyelids. Also, their facial structure especially around eyes and eyebrows are almost flat.

Now looking back japanese eyes, they don't have a clear double eyelid, but the facial surfaces between eyes and eyebrows are not flat, more depth in 3 dimension. Protruding eyebrow and sunken eyes.


JAPANESE FACE:(Ryukyuan/Ainu/Jomon)



Taisuke_Itagaki_4-1.webp


CHINESE FACE:




sun-1.webp





CHINESE: Eyes are generally placed flat to the facial surface with the double eyelids. Also notice that eye and eyebrows are positioned on almost the same level, giving even flater impressions. The epicanthic fold are heavily expressed.


JAPANESE: Eyes are placed deeper inside the skull, giving the sunken eyes with single eyelid, or double eyelids formed along with skull (in chinese face, double eyelids are simply formed with eye folds). Epicanthic folds not highly expressed, but idyosyncrasies of eyes are expressed as the narrowly visible are of the eyes.
 
KOREAN FACE:

Korean faces are far more difficult to find the best specimen.
One reason is that korean picture in the old age are not
many. But the korean faces in current populatoin are
more ;likely a product of plastic surgery.

Some polls suggest that in korea 22.2% of total female population
underwent the surgery on their faces. There are no statistics on
men's faces but it is supposed that many korean celebrities are
indeed not natural faces.

In Japan the rate is 2.7% of total female population. In china, the
figure is not so different, but the most popular tour from china to korea
is the surgery pack tour where chinese can get the better treatment
with the modern facility.

One example of Korean surgery is the current Korean President Roh
and his wife.

nomuseikei-1.webp

nomufujin-1.webp




Example of Korean men's facial surgery:


otokoseikei-1.webp

donggif-1.webp

seikei_c-1.webp




Example of Korean women's facial surgery:



zzangiminw6_47-1.webp

anna122_23-1.webp

anna122_12-1.webp


The best representative Korean face we can get is indeed this face:

Let's now look at KOREAN population who is thought be most related to modern central japanese. Their phenotype is known to be closest to Mongolian (South Sibelia).

Average (not necessarily typical) Korean face

http://www.andongkim.com/articles/20...koreanface.htm

Korean scientists allegedly produced what they call, "the average Korean face". The Korean Institute of Science and Technology information (KISTI) working together with the Catholic Institute for Applied Anatomy made computer tomographic scans of Koreans last year and with the aid of a supercomputer produced a "digital Korean" -- a 3-D video of the average Korean's physical structure.

Do you see much differences from the northen japanese? They don't look like above japanese, esp northernmost and southernmost japanese, do they?

I am not to deny or support the facial surgery, but
Korean high profiles with respect to facial surgery
make the study on Korean face more difficult than
any population in the world.
 
Sorry, earlier comment assumed some genetic analysis. Here is one such result.


Fig. 2. Frequency distributions of the eight Y-chromosome haplotypes for the 14 global populations, with their approximate geographic locations. The frequencies of the eight haplotypes are shown as colored pie charts (for color codes, see upper left insert). JP =Japanese. Han=Chinese

Only four Japanese populations exhibited ht1 (defined only by YAP+) at various frequencies (also see Table 1). The highest frequency (87.5%) was found in JP-Ainu, followed by JP-Okinawa (55.6%) living in the southwestern islands of Japan, JP-Honshu (36.6%), and JP-Kyushu (27.9%). The ht2 haplotype (defined by YAP+/M15+) was found in only two males, one each from Thais and Thai-Khmers; ht3 (defined by YAP+/SRY4064-A) was completely absent in the Asian populations examined, whereas Jewish in the Uzbekistan and African populations had this haplotype with a frequency of 28.3% and 100%, respectively. Thus, the YAP+ lineage was found in restricted populations among Asian populations, consistent with previous reports (Hammer and Horai 1995; Hammer et al. 1997; Shinka et al. 1999).

The ht4 haplotype (defined only by M9-G) was widely distributed among north, east, and southeast Asian populations, except for the Ainu. This haplotype was frequent (60.5%) in overall Asian populations (Table 1). Among them, the Han Chinese and southeast Asian populations were characterized by high frequencies ranging from 81.0% to 96.0%. In contrast to ht4, ht5 (defined by M9-G/DYS257108-A) and ht6 (defined by M9-G/DYS257108-A/SRY10831-A) were small contributors to Asian populations. The highest frequency of ht5 was observed in Nivkhi (19.0%) and that of the ht6 in Thai-Khmers (10.8%). The ht5 haplotype is widely distributed among European, Asian, and Native American populations and is proposed to be one of the candidates for founder haplotypes in the Americas (Karafet et al. 1999). Furthermore, high frequencies of ht6 were observed in north Europe, central Asia, and India (Karafet et al. 1999). Thus, the presence of ht5 in Nivkhi may account for the founder effect of peopling of the Americas.

The ht7 haplotype (defined by RPS4Y-T) was also widely distributed throughout Asia with the exceptions of Malaysia and the Philippines, whereas this was absent in two non-Asian populations. The highest frequency of ht7 was found in Buryats (83.6%), followed by Nivkhi (38.1%). Thus, the geographic distribution of ht7 in Asia appears to contrast with that of ht4.

Only eight individuals (1.4%) in Asia belonged to ht8, which was the major haplotype in Jewish population (Table 1). The ht8 haplotype may not be useful for inferring population relatedness among Asian populations because it is defined by no mutations. Additional Y-polymorphic markers such as M89 and M168 (Underhill et al. 2000; Ke et al. 2001) will be needed to investigate details of the formation of modern Asian populations.
 
Comparison of Average Korean-Japanese-Thai Female Faces.

AVERAGE KOREAN FACE (LEFT) - AVERAGE JAPANESE FACE (MIDDLE) - AVERAGE THAI FACE (RIGHT)


Average face stands for the standardization of face measurements typically comprising
of more than 20 facial features, and superimposed on just one face.
 
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Knowing the difference among races is difficult when you've met only a few or not met anybody at all. It's not an obligatory subject, but we should really try to, at least be able to slightly assume where are they from. If you meet an asian and talk to him/her, and happens he's not the race you thought he was, it's ok, as long as you don't laugh at it like crazy. They don't like much to be confused, but either get too much upset about it; what bothers them is the way you show you knowledge-ignorance.
Of course, you might be able to know the difference by the tone of skin, but you have to investigate deeeeeply about it; or the eyes, which will even tell you if it's mixed or not; or just the way he/she speaks. I worked at a McDonald's as a cashier, so I was exposed to many people. I had to manage myself to take the orders of foreigners properly, cos i only speak spanish and english, but I know if they're german, french, italian, russian, and greek for the way they spoke spanish or english. I also had to attend a bunch of koreans and another of japanese at the same time. Who were who? Well, koreans wanted to know "everything", japanese were a bit more shy. Koreans had a translator, but I know korean thanks to my TKD classes. I also know japanese language, but the guy I took the orders from tried to speak spanish, you know, adding vocals where they're not and else. We understood each other anyway, and I remember I was smiling idioticly cos he was very cute, but I remember something the Supervisor told me once. "Foreigners are very pleased when you greet them or politely dismiss them in their on language". And it's true. And to do this, you must be able to make a difference, right? My dad almost gets kicked out of a store just for calling mexican to an arabian... How much I told him not to do so, but well, he's a mule.
It's also a good idea to learn to say: Good morning/evening/afternoon, good bye, thank you and come back soon when you work in a restorant. It won me a kiss and a phone number from this cute guy.
 
I can smell the differences. I'll know if the girl is Japanese by walking by her with my eyes closed (because of their smell,) . I know the smell of Korean girls and chinese too. Most girls think I'm a dog.

Josh
 
interesting way. You must have a really good smell sense. I have never payed attention to their smell, but it's true. It's like when somebody comes from behind and cover your eyes saying: Who's this?? Some people recognize them by the voice, some by the smell.
I think that's very interesting. It's curious how your diet comes out through your skin, but well, you do must have a good sense or won't notice at all, right?
 
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