Tensions; China/Japan The orgy

Comments on the two incidents,
a) the skit by 3 Japanese students
b) the japanese businessman, so called "large orgy"

Talks about how hypocritical, the Chinese reacted (and violently !)

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www.nytimes.com

The China Threat?
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

Published: December 20, 2003

..... on and on.........
This fall, three Japanese students in the central Chinese city of Xian performed a bawdy skit, wearing red bras over T-shirts and throwing the stuffing at their audience 窶 and word spread that the Riben guizi, Japanese devils, were mocking China. So a mob of 1,000 people rampaged through town, looking for any Japanese to attack.

...........on and on..............

In the same vein, fury had erupted around the country a few weeks earlier because of reports that Japanese businessmen had engaged in an orgy with Chinese prostitutes in the southern city of Zhuhai. The Chinese rage was hypocritical in a country where hundreds of thousands of prostitutes blatantly ply their wares 窶 in Zhengzhou last year, an army of prostitutes practically battered down my hotel room door as I cowered inside.

....on and on..............

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So a mob of 1,000 people rampaged through town, looking for any Japanese to attack

Thats the scary part !
.

No, that's not the scary part.
The scary part is that there are obviously millions & millions of Chinese who actually approve the actions of the mob.

I am a chinese from Taiwan. I really felt dissapointed when i heard the news. But please, don't take it against all the Chinese people. Most of the people in the mob were ultranationalist or just ignorant people easily fooled and controlled by official propaganda. This Xian incident is really no big deal...it's just the goverment wanting to boycott Japan/China relations, fearing that its own people may start looking at the japanese differently.

Actually, I think, it is more the other way round. The gouvernment is not so keen on bad relations to Japan, for economic reasons.
There seems to be a growing nationalist movement in the PRC, that takes offence even in the smallest possible thing done by Japanese, that could be interpreted anti-Chinese.

Of course, not all Chinese people, probably not the majority, but a lot of people.

well,I disagree with what the Chinese people did

but you have to understand that,
although many Chinese people tries to treat the Japanese people friendly,
but the Japanese return the favor by mocking and hating Chinese people and they keep denying their war crimes

also,
the 'large orgy' thing happened during the 72th anniversary of the Japanese invasion,many Chinese people see this as an action for the Japanese people to mock the Chinese

So a mob of 1,000 people rampaged through town, looking for any Japanese to attack.

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This is very very very dangerous !

What if you were a Japanese tourist or businessman, in the town !

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By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

Published: December 20, 2003


HANGHAI

Is China a threat to the rest of the world?

Perhaps, for rising powers have always spelled trouble for their neighbors, even in the case of democracies like Athens (the Peloponnesian War) and the U.S. (we managed to invade Canada and Mexico in the 1800's.

Yet what worries me about China isn't its upgrade of its nuclear arsenal and its military acquisitions to project power beyond its borders. China's military doctrine is cautious, and President Hu Jintao is leading China toward an increasingly constructive role in international affairs.

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No, what troubles me, as one who loves China and is rooting for it to succeed, is the growing nationalism that the government has cultivated among young people.

Americans saw a hint of that when enraged mobs attacked our embassy in Beijing after the U.S. bombed the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade in 1999, and when Chinese students reacted to the horror of 9/11 by filling Internet chat rooms with delighted cheers of shuang 窶 roughly equivalent to "Wow, so cool!"

But it's in attitudes toward the Japanese that we see a leading indicator of the instability that blind nationalism can cause. This fall, three Japanese students in the central Chinese city of Xian performed a bawdy skit, wearing red bras over T-shirts and throwing the stuffing at their audience 窶 and word spread that the Riben guizi, Japanese devils, were mocking China. So a mob of 1,000 people rampaged through town, looking for any Japanese to attack.

In the same vein, fury had erupted around the country a few weeks earlier because of reports that Japanese businessmen had engaged in an orgy with Chinese prostitutes in the southern city of Zhuhai. The Chinese rage was hypocritical in a country where hundreds of thousands of prostitutes blatantly ply their wares 窶 in Zhengzhou last year, an army of prostitutes practically battered down my hotel room door as I cowered inside.

Even the Chinese recounting of history has become hysterical. Take the Rape of Nanjing in 1937, which was so brutal that there's no need to exaggerate it. One appalled witness in the thick of the killing, John Rabe, put the death toll at 50,000 to 60,000. Another, Miner Searle Bates, estimated that 12,000 civilians and 28,000 soldiers had been killed. The Chinese delegate to the League of Nations at the time put the civilian toll at 20,000. A Communist Chinese newspaper of the period put it at 42,000.

Yet China proclaims, based on accounts that stand little scrutiny, that 300,000 or more were killed. Such hyperbole abuses history as much as the denial by Japanese rightists that there was any Rape of Nanjing at all. It nurtures nationalism by defining China as a victim state, the world's punching bag, that must be more aggressive in defending its interests.

What does this add up to? The rising nationalism warps Chinese decision-making and risks conflicts with Japan over, for example, the disputed Senkaku/Diaoyu islands. It also forces the government to be tough in international disputes 窶 particularly in the case of Taiwan, where a miscalculation could conceivably lead to a war with the U.S.

"Some Chinese military leaders are saying that Japan is secretly behind Taiwan's moves toward a referendum and independence," warned a well-connected Chinese who knows that this is nonsense. "They say it is all a Japanese plot to steal Taiwan from China."

The reasons for rising Chinese nationalism are complex and include a justified anger at Japan's reluctance to apologize for war atrocities. But one factor is the way the Chinese government has been pushing nationalist buttons in an effort to create a new national glue to hold the country together as ideology dissolves. By constantly excoriating the Japanese nationalists of the 1930's, they are emulating them.

One of the lessons of 1930's Japan and Germany is that ferocious nationalism is a real global security risk, and it's a matter that the U.S. and other countries should respectfully raise with President Hu. To their credit, some farsighted Chinese intellectuals are calling for changing China's "victim mentality," recognizing that it is one of the greatest obstacles to China's maturing into the global leader that it should be.

Meanwhile, we in the West are bashing China, unfairly and demagogically, over its exports. But we're missing the risk in China's rise. The menace isn't in its trade policies, but in its nationalist psychology.

I disagree the actions of the mobs.

but,
who sparked this?
the Japanese
why would they go and mock Chinese people,for fun?
why would 300 Japanese men go to China and have 'orgy' with prostitutes on the day of 72th anniversary of Japanese invasion??

I've read the rest of the article
the author just tries to create an image of 'Chinese people are blind and stupid',part of his article :

"Americans saw a hint of that when enraged mobs attacked our embassy in Beijing after the U.S. bombed the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade in 1999, and when Chinese students reacted to the horror of 9/11 by filling Internet chat rooms with delighted cheers of shuang 窶 roughly equivalent to "Wow, so cool!" [/B]

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well I've also seen American people filling internet chat rooms with delighted cheers like 'yea kill the Iraqis!! nuke them!!' ,during the war against Iraq.
also I've seen Japanese people being proud of what their country did to China,and talk about how to have sex with Chinese women.
I don't think all American and Japanese people are like that,
not all Chinese people are like that too,so don't stereotype.


and it talked about nationalism in China,thats bullshit,
governments in all countries cultivate nationalism on people,including the US and Japan.

Originally posted by Dream Time
why would they go and mock Chinese people,for fun?
why would 300 Japanese men go to China and have 'orgy' with prostitutes on the day of 72th anniversary of Japanese invasion??

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If you refer to the 3 students, they may have made a stupid performance ("bawdy skit"), but even if this was to make fun of Chinese (I think this is just hearsay) that's no reason to go on a rampage.
You can't blame them for the actions of the mob.

Regarding this hotel "orgy": for what I heard this was planned to happen earlier in the year but was postponed due to SARS. Therefore it was very probably not intended to insult China. It may have been stupid to do it on that date, but for Japanese this date is not so special, I suppose.
Why didn't the Chinese organisers inform them or simply refuse to have this event on that particular date?

Need we say more

The Chinese rage was hypocritical in a country where hundreds of thousands of prostitutes blatantly ply their wares 窶 in Zhengzhou last year, an army of prostitutes practically battered down my hotel room door as I cowered inside.

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STRANGE LOGIC

I am a Chinese from mainland. Frankly, I think all people from China were angry when that Orgy Incident was released on the Internet. It just looked like a bomb.


Yes, chinese students react againstthe disgrace strongly, but not as some people said, find Japanese people than beat them.

If Chinese people demonstrate in the street to dispute their dignity, IS IT A THREAT TO THE REST OF THE WORLD?


STRANGE LOGIC...

Nationalism can always be a threat to other nations.

The mob that we talked about was not because of the "orgy" but because of the "bawdy skit" of the japanese students:
Student prank that gave the Chinese a fit of the willies

Personally, I would love to see more (peaceful) demonstrations in China: for freedom of opinion, for freedom of religion, for freedom of choice (eg choice in free, secret, multi-party elections) etc.

Originally posted by bossel
No, that's not the scary part.
The scary part is that there are obviously millions & millions of Chinese who actually approve the actions of the mob.

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What makes you think MILLIONS of Chinese people approve the actions of the mob ?

The Chinese rage was hypocritical in a country where hundreds of thousands of prostitutes blatantly ply their wares 窶 in Zhengzhou last year, an army of prostitutes practically battered down my hotel room door as I cowered inside.

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Just because prostitution is a problem in China doesnt mean that it's seen as being ok.

Originally posted by Gaki
What makes you think MILLIONS of Chinese people approve the actions of the mob?

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My personal experience in a Chinese internet forum & what I heard & read about other forums. Regarding the overall number of Chinese (& the pretty low percentage of internet users) this should actually be a rather conservative estimate.

Well yes there are some Chinese people who cannot see past wartime hatred towrds the Japanese, however to generalise the Chinese people as approving of extremist acts is incorrect.

There are roughly 1.8 million (I cant remember if this figure is correct) Chinese people in the world, from region to region Chinese people are as different from each other as an European person is different to an American (in terms of ways of thinking).
Which is why i personally dislike when we a generalised into one big group, we are all different afterall.

I have never agreed with the people who hate Japanese people solely on the few facts they know about the war, I agree even less when people attack innocent people just because they are Japanese.

China is a developing country, there are many things which are changing in China.
We dont like to be constantly stamped on by foreigners about how our country is governed, yes change must happen in China however these things dont happen overnight.
The new Chinese government has only had the past century to develop whereas the rest of the world has had a much longer time.

I dont ask for people to sympathise, only to give us a chance to grow before u start poking us with a stick.

I didn't generalise. I was speaking of "millions & millions", furthermore only in the PRC (should have roughly 1.3 billion inhabitants now).
Don't worry, I know that there are lots of decent people in China. The growing nationalism is worrisome though, esp. regarding Taiwan (but that's a different question).

"The new Chinese government has only had the past century to develop whereas the rest of the world has had a much longer time."
That's not exactly true, just look at Japan. The whole country was in a mess after WW II, without real democratic history, (for quite a while) now it's a fully functional democracy.

Free Tibet!

Red Light for "Feast on a Beauty's Body"

The trend seems that a certain government wishes the subjects and the rest of the world to believe that Japanese men are pervert sex animals, so I'm posting news links here.

Xinhua People's Daily More

The reason of Past Weak China
日本总结的中国九大败因，深思！（摘录<<龙咒）
窶?#27665;族性差，好内斗，不团结，此中国一败。
文化内残外忍，奴性十足，此中国二败。
政体僵化，用人唯亲，此中国三败。
军备废弛，腐化成风，此中国四败。
民风懦弱，缺乏尚武精神，此中国五败。
经济外强中干，对外依赖性太强，此中国六败。
贫富悬殊，民怨沸腾，人心思变，此中国七败。
外无俄国强援，内有台湾忧患，此中国八败。
战略上被美国视为对手，战术上保守被动，此中国九败。窶
Wake up, my kin!!

Tibet is already free~~~

名無し said:

Xinhua People's Daily More

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This is the restaurant Hefengcun Huaishi site (manager: Li Ailing, president: Tang Xiaoyi)

arnadstephen said:

This fall, three Japanese students in the central Chinese city of Xian performed a bawdy skit, wearing red bras over T-shirts and throwing the stuffing at their audience 窶 and word spread that the Riben guizi, Japanese devils, were mocking China.

Click to expand...

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This kind of mindset to take things as major insults might not have anything to do with Japan, but just cultural thing.

China, HK Tourists Protest in Malaysia over "Pigs"

窶｢ The hotel had to prepare two sets of meals because considerable number of customers there needed pork-free food for a religious reason.

窶｢ Hotel staff needed to be able to easily distinguish two meal voucher types, so they drew cartoon pigs on the ones for "meal containing pork."

窶｢ Being a pork lover does not specify nationality or ethnicity, such as German or Dene. Having a pig card or keychain is not the manifestation of "I'm a pig" for normal people.

Hong Kong's Apple Daily newspaper said some 600 tourists from China and Hong Kong staged the sit-in at the lobby of the First World Hotel, where they sang the Chinese national anthem and demanded an apology from the management.

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until 2pm over breakfast voucher, impressive. Note that the tourists are from relatively wealthy class who can afford travels abroad.


They might or might not start complaining that the apology was not sincere enough and demanding reparations, sixty years from now.