Japanese Basics for American

[SailorSaturn666]

Hello everyone! I hope some of you guys can help me out here ^w^

I recently decided that I wanted to learn Japanese. I looked into it, and from what I've read, you should start with the 'alphabets' so you know what you are reading instead of learning in romaji.

I've now memorized/read hiragana, but that is all- no katakana or kanji. I cannot understand the meaning linked to hiragana, I can simply read and understand the symbols.

What would anyone suggest is my next step in learning Japanese? Should I continue learning hiragana words and conversation material, or should I move on to katakana? Should I begin kanji (this one scares me honestly)?

Please respond if you can, I'd really appreciate it!

 

[nahadef]

You should build up your vocabulary before getting into kanji. It's quite difficult to learn new words and new symbols at the same time. And even then, consider how a Japanese kid learns kanji. Forty the first year of school, and then eighty the next year. It's very easy for a JSL to get overwhelmed with kanji from the start. The lowest level of the JLPT only requires about 100 kanji.

Once you feel confident with your basics, then try out the kanji. The first 20 or so are just numbers and days of the week anyway, nothing difficult. Once you have that down, then start digging deeper.

As for katakana, I never studied it seriously. It's really easy to pick up. Some resemble hiragana, and many of the words are Japanese versions of English words, so if you're in Japan, you see them everywhere (コーヒー、ストロー、etc). You have to know katakana, but I don't think a person should spend much time studying it, since English speakers can pick it up relatively easily.

 

[Andromedashun]

You should build up your vocabulary before getting into kanji

Honestly that's really scary. Kanji compare to Vocab are always easier, since the number of vocabulary is somewhere around 45000.

 

[nahadef]

Honestly that's really scary. Kanji compare to Vocab are always easier, since the number of vocabulary is somewhere around 45000.

I'm not saying you should have memorized every word in the language before starting kanji, just, as I said, "the basics." Learning a picture, an on-reading, and kun-reading, and a meaning all at the same time is a lot of work. Rather, get those vocab basics, then get some kanji to plug into the words you already know and use, as a native speaker would.

I'm quite sure the average six-year old isn't using 45,000 words when they start in on their kanji.

 

[FinancialWar]

Honestly that's really scary. Kanji compare to Vocab are always easier, since the number of vocabulary is somewhere around 45000.

45000 vocab for what? Unless you planning to write a Japanese version of "Ulysses" you don't even need a third of that amount.

JLPT N1 only need 8, 000-10, 000.

 

[nekojita]

It's not like you need to know X number of kanji and Y number of vocabulary before you can read anything at all. (where X and Y are large numbers).

Old JLPT 1 level requirement for vocabulary was ~10,000 words, although at that point actually trying to count how many words you know is a bit pointless.

 

[Ciel]

Here is my suggestion, and this is only my opinion... Consider taking a formal class, but realize that classes alone are not enough.

You can teach yourself, and with help of nice people in websites like this you can ask questions.

My japanese class uses a series of textbooks called Nakama. There's digital versions you can buy and download from Amazon. Classes and textbooks are helpful in that they point out the essential, bare minimum stuff you should be learning. It organizes informations and answers the: "Ok, what do I learn next?"

Aside from textbooks and class, you should do additional work on your own. ...cause there's a lot of work to do.

My suggestion is:

1. Get the kanji grade lists. Start learning kanji by grade lvl just like a japanese student would.

2. KanjiNetworks: Online Japanese Chinese Kanji Character Dictionary - Etymologies, Pictographs, Phonosemantics & Definitions <-- use that website to look up each kanji etymology. Learn to see symbol and meaning in strokes of kanji. When you understand, kanji should appear like meaningful pictures, not senseless lines.

3. Denshi Jisho - Online Japanese dictionary <-- use this online dictionary to look up words by kanji. Don't worry about compounds words for now. Just focus on learning the words that use only that kanji you are learning plus some hiragana. Doing so will give more meaning to the kanji you just learned and help you remember. (dont forget to check 'common words only' option)

4. Get a japanese flashcard software, Declan software make good ones, and build your own vocabulary lists as you go.

5. Welcome to IMABI! - <-- this website has a lot of good information organized by lessons.

6. Ask questions here.

7. Have fun. Yes, learning japanese is lots of fun.

 

[SailorSaturn666]

Thanks everyone for your advice! I cant deny that it's a bit stressful just thinking of learning kanji.. it just seems like such a complex, cryptic written language that a total foreigner like me would never be able to get through it all! I might be looking too into it though. But Im definitely willing to try and as some of you said, you dont need to know everything all at once.

As for taking a class, I totally agree with you Ciel!

I already registered at my college for the fall semester so I dont have room right now, but Im hoping next semester to take a Japanese class there. I was actually surprised they offered one, considering were not exactly a mecca of Japanese culture here haha..

As for learning from the JLPT levels, I would start at 4 and work my way "up", right? Does anyone have an effective way of learning/memorizing kanji? With hiragana, I just printed out sheets and practiced writing and associating the sound with the symbol.

I will check out those websites as well Ciel, thank you! And learning Japanese is fun already ^w^ Where Im from, most people just speak Spanish, so its cool to learn something different.

 

[nekojita]

There is no reason why you would not be able to learn kanji. It undoubtedly seems daunting right now, but remember the old joke about how you eat an elephant (one bite at a time).

The new JLPT is split into five levels, N5 (lowest) to N1 (highest). You don't have to take them in order, and many people skip the lower levels. They can be a useful target - but it depends what your aims are. They don't test writing or speaking abilities, either.

Erin's Challenge is a useful site for beginners or "false-beginners" (e.g. if you've had some classes and want to review).

Coscom have some kanji material (some free/online, some not). Generally I recommend material that shows you the kanji in some sort of context (e.g. with words/sentences showing how it is used), because the readings and meanings of some kanji change depending on how they're used.

e.g. 着 is a common kanji that sometimes means "wear" (like clothing - it's the "ki" in "kimono"), and sometimes means "arrive/arrival". 手 (て - hand) is found in the word for singer (歌手 - かしゅ) because when it comes at the end of a word it sometimes means "person who does X". On the other hand, 駅 (えき - station) is consistent (always read the same, always means the same).

There are also lots of patterns. 海、湖、潮、液 all have the same three strokes on the left hand side (氵) - that is a radical called "さんずい" or "three drops", and the kanji that have it usually mean something to do with water or fluid.

If you take one and break it up, 湖 (lake) is made up of 氵＋古 (old)＋月 (moon) - if the latter two don't seem to have too much to do with the meaning of lake, it's because the 胡 part is about the sound. 古、胡、 and 湖 can all be read こ (on-reading, often used in kanji compounds). Many kanji are made up like this - a meaning part, and a sound part.

 

[pauro12]

I suggest that you study hiragana again with some vocabularies, maybe some words starting each of those characters.. then you study katakana, but this time, you may not deal that much with the vocabularies (understand all about katakana and you will know what I mean), then you start with grammar and lots of vocabularies, then after knowing the basic grammar, proceed with the more difficult grammar but incorporate kanjis in between.. So after learning about hiragana, and katakana, you will study grammars, vocabularies, and kanjis forever until you get satisfied with your Japanese.. There are lots of books, games, etc for you to learn the language.. So it will only depend on your determination if you could make it through.. I hope this helps...

 

[Vitne]

I've just started learning Japanese really, but right now I'm focusing on learning Hiragana. I got an iPhone app called "Real Kana" which is practically just flash cards, but its actually been extremely helpful. I've learned and remembered a lot in the past week!

 

[pauro12]

I've just started learning Japanese really, but right now I'm focusing on learning Hiragana. I got an iPhone app called "Real Kana" which is practically just flash cards, but its actually been extremely helpful. I've learned and remembered a lot in the past week!

I'm using Scribe Origins... It's not just Kana though.. It's mixed vocabularies, and kanji... I've had fun playing it..

 

[Vitne]

Is it for iPhone? I may have to check it out.

The Real Kana app is literally just flashcards, but its very quick. Its actually a lot of fun too.

 

[pauro12]

Is it for iPhone? I may have to check it out.

The Real Kana app is literally just flashcards, but its very quick. Its actually a lot of fun too.

aahhh! I've played that too.. the one with cherry blossoms? I got bored because if you got one mistake, you have to repeat from the very beginning.. And yes, Scribe Origins is from iPhone.. xD Check it out, it's cute and good...