abdalrasyid
先輩
- 29 Oct 2010
- 142
- 13
- 28
Well but we are not happy for that. You sure have your right to be happy for that, but I also have my right for not being happy for that, I have not only right in my pocket but also a reason. I read several of your post Thor, and I remember one of your post, you sayyed on that post, The Europe should be thankful to the Muslim because their contribution on the age of enlightment, especially at science, further you add, you find those fact by googling and googling is quite enough for you. I must say your statement was quite fair and true, none of (pos)modern philosopher, historian, sciencetis, able to deny that solid fact. While the chruch forbiding the quest of knowledge because indeed the two fruit that Adam (peace be upon him) ate are fruit of immortality and fruit of knowledge (different then muslim according to that event). And in Chirstian or Catholic understanding on that time, I repeat again on that time, knowledge is the sign of rebelion toward God.
Go from that believes, the Catholic institution form a list of book that forbiden to be read. Even reading Aristotle is forbiden at that time. While we muslim, contradictively, the act of thinking, observation, deep thought (include there research), it is not just allowed, it is count as a form of good deeds and being order by God, that is the key for us to know the magnificient of God creation, that is the gate of understanding. So at that time many of western scholar and jesuit (who have more permition to read books etc, read Umberto Ecco) go studying at Damascus, Cairo (Al-Azhar), and many Muslim Madrash and school to becoming The knowledgable one or Al-Alim, now we know it as Alumni or Alumnus.
The conclusion, the turning point of western monarchs and feodal system at that time are follow by several event, first, the seperation between goverment and church or secularism, because of what? because under the church authority the activity of research, and other fields are being line and limited. Second, the journey to the orient, or east continent, to conquest, defeat, and took off spices, gold, and all of the commodity to cure the monetary problem within the europe (with war and conquest, remember that), and they simplify their slogan with, Gold (control the eastern wealth to be transfer into europe), Glory (conquest strategic territory, perform both imperialism and colonialization) and Gospel (bring christian mission/religion and converting the native).
But Muslim don't need secularism, because they already at that state from the very begining and education never appear as something contra religion in our terms and understanding, it even part of our religion, and the fact Islam is the only reason that we able to build kind of society that happend backthen at Cordoba, Andalus, Tharce, Islambul, Madinah etc. And what you are doing right know is you try to mix up the history and context upon two different matters and dimention, like you are using moscow map to walk arround London, no wonder you get lost and falling in the pit of generalization.
If you look up the history of the Old God, the most old concept of God in Africa, in American Native, in Old Babylon, always appear as a monotheistic form of God. Be my guest read Karen Armstrong History of God, proove me if I'm wrong about that. But later it being corrupted into polytheism. And Judaism, Christianity or Nasharn, Islam are come from God, the very same God. But in the road there are ocnum made some of this monotheistic belives more into polytheistic or unitarian, and Islam come as a finalization and perfection. The Quran toward The Bible is like The Bible toward the Torah. A continuation and a perfection of God message.
The problem is, you try to read my previous post as I force you to apply shariah unto you, and that is the paranoia attitude that being spread by the media causing all this war and EDL and all of that riot and killing between men. No one want to restore caliphate in USA or England, we want to restore it in our own region where we are the majority population and we done it not by force but by syura (musyawarah, or massive discussion within our own peoples), and peoples strive for that. You can hold what you think is right, and so do we. The main problem of imperialism terror is they are trying to "civilize" nation or system that they claim to be "barbaric" by force. Backthen like how they "civilize" the Indian, or native Indian, not native America but native Indian, yeah right. The imperialism claim them as a uncivilize tribe because of that they need to be civilize by gospel (they make God and christianity as blackgoat to backup their real motive, oh right) so they go to Africa enslaving peoples, to America conquering Indian tribe, to asia, everywhere. And now they want to civilize us with democrazy, our new gospel, our new global religion, just like what happen in the past now they go here and there messing up every place they go, blackgoating the human right, to further thrown carpet bomb unto the population, occupy country, sucking up oil and commodity, controling the market, establishing puppet presiden (in the colonilization era puppet ruler and king), and all of that done behind the human right reason, while the truth is, they are the one who spit upon the human right. Just like the old day, nothing has change really, and some peoples still can't understand.
And my previous post is appear to answer Tokis Phoenix why those rapist goes unpunish, I said to her that is because those Islamic majority monarch don't applying proper Islamic law to govern their governor. Look at arround you Thor, and read back to the history, and contemplate, this is nothing but a repetition. The Imperialism are still as barbaric, aggresive, greed as they were 100 years ago. But singing the same song, but in different tunes, the one who listen carefully can catch the similiarity, easily.
You can happy for what ever you want to be happy with, I have nothing to do with it, we are resonsible for our ownselves and community. Your affair really out from my concern and right. So do our ummah affair and believes.
Go from that believes, the Catholic institution form a list of book that forbiden to be read. Even reading Aristotle is forbiden at that time. While we muslim, contradictively, the act of thinking, observation, deep thought (include there research), it is not just allowed, it is count as a form of good deeds and being order by God, that is the key for us to know the magnificient of God creation, that is the gate of understanding. So at that time many of western scholar and jesuit (who have more permition to read books etc, read Umberto Ecco) go studying at Damascus, Cairo (Al-Azhar), and many Muslim Madrash and school to becoming The knowledgable one or Al-Alim, now we know it as Alumni or Alumnus.
The conclusion, the turning point of western monarchs and feodal system at that time are follow by several event, first, the seperation between goverment and church or secularism, because of what? because under the church authority the activity of research, and other fields are being line and limited. Second, the journey to the orient, or east continent, to conquest, defeat, and took off spices, gold, and all of the commodity to cure the monetary problem within the europe (with war and conquest, remember that), and they simplify their slogan with, Gold (control the eastern wealth to be transfer into europe), Glory (conquest strategic territory, perform both imperialism and colonialization) and Gospel (bring christian mission/religion and converting the native).
But Muslim don't need secularism, because they already at that state from the very begining and education never appear as something contra religion in our terms and understanding, it even part of our religion, and the fact Islam is the only reason that we able to build kind of society that happend backthen at Cordoba, Andalus, Tharce, Islambul, Madinah etc. And what you are doing right know is you try to mix up the history and context upon two different matters and dimention, like you are using moscow map to walk arround London, no wonder you get lost and falling in the pit of generalization.
If you look up the history of the Old God, the most old concept of God in Africa, in American Native, in Old Babylon, always appear as a monotheistic form of God. Be my guest read Karen Armstrong History of God, proove me if I'm wrong about that. But later it being corrupted into polytheism. And Judaism, Christianity or Nasharn, Islam are come from God, the very same God. But in the road there are ocnum made some of this monotheistic belives more into polytheistic or unitarian, and Islam come as a finalization and perfection. The Quran toward The Bible is like The Bible toward the Torah. A continuation and a perfection of God message.
The problem is, you try to read my previous post as I force you to apply shariah unto you, and that is the paranoia attitude that being spread by the media causing all this war and EDL and all of that riot and killing between men. No one want to restore caliphate in USA or England, we want to restore it in our own region where we are the majority population and we done it not by force but by syura (musyawarah, or massive discussion within our own peoples), and peoples strive for that. You can hold what you think is right, and so do we. The main problem of imperialism terror is they are trying to "civilize" nation or system that they claim to be "barbaric" by force. Backthen like how they "civilize" the Indian, or native Indian, not native America but native Indian, yeah right. The imperialism claim them as a uncivilize tribe because of that they need to be civilize by gospel (they make God and christianity as blackgoat to backup their real motive, oh right) so they go to Africa enslaving peoples, to America conquering Indian tribe, to asia, everywhere. And now they want to civilize us with democrazy, our new gospel, our new global religion, just like what happen in the past now they go here and there messing up every place they go, blackgoating the human right, to further thrown carpet bomb unto the population, occupy country, sucking up oil and commodity, controling the market, establishing puppet presiden (in the colonilization era puppet ruler and king), and all of that done behind the human right reason, while the truth is, they are the one who spit upon the human right. Just like the old day, nothing has change really, and some peoples still can't understand.
And my previous post is appear to answer Tokis Phoenix why those rapist goes unpunish, I said to her that is because those Islamic majority monarch don't applying proper Islamic law to govern their governor. Look at arround you Thor, and read back to the history, and contemplate, this is nothing but a repetition. The Imperialism are still as barbaric, aggresive, greed as they were 100 years ago. But singing the same song, but in different tunes, the one who listen carefully can catch the similiarity, easily.
You can happy for what ever you want to be happy with, I have nothing to do with it, we are resonsible for our ownselves and community. Your affair really out from my concern and right. So do our ummah affair and believes.
abdalrasyid: Sure, I guess there isn't any pure Islamic country around today. But in all honesty? I'm happy about that! I'm happy that religion is being pushed away from politics. Religion and education do not go hand in hand. Religion is the great evil that mankind let grow unchecked. Polytheism was used in ancient times to explain the many forces at work in our world. A god for storms, a god of the hunt, a god for war, a god for love, a god for the setting & rising of the sun, and so many more! This is what monotheism is based off of! Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are all Abrahamic religions, and their one true God is based off the Canaanite god, El.
The fact that we impose laws and restrictions on ourselves is great! We cannot flail about endlessly, there must be order. That was religion's purpose. To give us structure, meaning, and to ease the horrible pain of being aware that we are all to die one day. But to take it so far, and in this day and age? There is no point to accepting it. If you want to believe in your God(s), so be it, but there are women and men who do not want to live according to Sharia law. It's up to the women to decide if they want to adhere to Hijab, not for society or any one person to tell them what to do. You say they can take it off when they go into their homes, but what sort of freedom is that?
We all know what happens when someone doesn't adhere to Hijab, don't we? Yes, yes we do! It doesn't seem very fair to me. :<
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