わきから / おくれ / ったら / おし / 及第ときまりました

[eeky]

Hi folks...

1. そして、もしおかあさんがわきから、とやかくくちばし を入れると、おとうさんの頭はこんがらがって、...

I think this roughly means, "Then, if mother interrupted him by chattering about something or other, father would get muddled..."

a) What is わきから?

b) In the book, which uses vertical writing, the letters of くちばし have commas next to them, like this:

と
や
か
く
く、
ち、
ば、
し、
を

What does this mean? Is it some kind of emphasis? How would you write this in horizontal writing?


2. Said by a husband to his wife: 「さ、じゃまをしないでおくれよ。」

I believe this should mean "Don't interrupt/disturb me."

What is おくれ? Since it seems to have no connection with lateness, I'm wondering if it's お (hon.) + くれ, meaning "do me the favour of", but would it be normal for someone to talk to his wife in this "お-" style?


3. この子ったら、しずかにおし

I believe this should mean something like "Be quiet, child!"

What is ったら? Is it いったら, literally "if one speaks (of it)" but in practice just used to introduce a topic?

In the dictionary I see that おし can mean "muteness". Is that the meaning here, or is it some other type of grammar?


4. ウェンディーは、すれすれのところで、及第ときまりました。

I think this ought to mean "Wendy just managed to get through (survive) this difficult time...", in reference to a difficult period of her infancy, but 及第 seems to refer to passing an exam (which has nothing to do with the story), and I don't understand ときまりました at all. How does this part work?

 

[Toritoribe]

1. そして、もしおかあさんがわきから、とやかくくちばし を入れると、おとうさんの頭はこんがらがって、...
I think this roughly means, "Then, if mother interrupted him by chattering about something or other, father would get muddled..."
a) What is わきから?

same to 横から

［3］ （「傍」「側」とも書く）物のかたわら。横。そば。

・ 先生の―にすわる

http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/dsearch?enc=U...x=121037600000

b) In the book, which uses vertical writing, the letters of くちばし have commas next to them, like this:
と
や
か
く
く、
ち、
ば、
し、
を
What does this mean? Is it some kind of emphasis? How would you write this in horizontal writing?

That's not comma but "dot", and yes, it's for emphasis. The dots are put above the word in horizontal writing.

2. Said by a husband to his wife: 「さ、じゃまをしないでおくれよ。」
I believe this should mean "Don't interrupt/disturb me."
What is おくれ? Since it seems to have no connection with lateness, I'm wondering if it's お (hon.) + くれ, meaning "do me the favour of", but would it be normal for someone to talk to his wife in this "お-" style?

Right. くれ is an imperative of くれる. おくれ is the honorific version of it, which is used basically by old people.

3. この子ったら、しずかにおし
I believe this should mean something like "Be quiet, child!"
What is ったら? Is it いったら, literally "if one speaks (of it)" but in practice just used to introduce a topic?

That's the abbreviation of といったら. In this case, it connotes some kind of blame.

In the dictionary I see that おし can mean "muteness". Is that the meaning here, or is it some other type of grammar?

お + the -masu form of する ＝ しなさい
(same construction to おくれ)

4. ウェンディーは、すれすれのところで、及第ときまりました。
I think this ought to mean "Wendy just managed to get through (survive) this difficult time...", in reference to a difficult period of her infancy, but 及第 seems to refer to passing an exam (which has nothing to do with the story), and I don't understand ときまりました at all. How does this part work?

Yes, 及第 means "to pass an exam" as same as 合格.

ときまりました ＝ と（/に）決まりました

Wendy was barely decided to pass the exam.

 

[eeky]

Thank you!

That's not comma but "dot".

In the book it's virtually indistinguishable from the comma. Looking in minute detail, I can now see that it is slightly more oblique than the comma. It definitely is not a (round) dot, but I assume the purpose must be the same.

Yes, 及第 means "to pass an exam" as same as 合格.
ときまりました ＝ と（/に）決まりました
Wendy was barely decided to pass the exam.

This is a strange one. Passing exams, in the sense of school exams, makes no sense in the context of the story. She is much too young to go to school. Could it be that "exam" is being used figuratively, and it just means "difficult episode" or "trial"?

I discarded 決まりました because it seemed not to make sense. Would you be able to explain in a little more detail the grammar of 及第 + と + 決まりました, and what role と is playing?

 

[Glenn]

I'd say it can serve for passing a trial. I have an example sentence, 彼の新しい作品は辛うじて及第だ, where there's no explicit test that the work barely passed; it's just the critics' opinions.

と here is like に, so it's pretty much the same as にきまりました. 決まる is really difficult to fit into one English word, and I haven't ever really tried to translate it because of that (luckily I haven't had to). It's basic meaning is for something to be decided, or set. So（あいつは）嘘をついてるに決まってる！ would mean that that person is definitely lying, ゴールが決まった means that a goal was scored, and plain old 決まった！ means that something is set or has been determined. Does that help at all?

 

[eeky]

Does that help at all?

Thanks, yes. Actually, my word "trial" may have been unhelpful. I meant "trial" as in "ordeal".

If it's feasible, I'm happy to go for something like "it was settled that Wendy passed this difficult examination", where "examination" has nothing to do with school examinations but means something like "troublesome and demanding time in the family's life".

 

[Toritoribe]

In the book it's virtually indistinguishable from the comma. Looking in minute detail, I can now see that it is slightly more oblique than the comma. It definitely is not a (round) dot, but I assume the purpose must be the same.

I see. So the book is used "comma" shape's one. That "dot" is called 傍点[ぼうてん]. And the commas used in your post is 読点.

As you can see in the left example above, 傍点 is put on the center of each letter/character. That's the difference between 傍点 and 読点(the right one).

 

[Lomaster]

Why start a new thread when there is already one concerning my question. About おくれ.

くれ is an imperative of くれる. おくれ is the honorific version of it, which is used basically by old people.

Are there other explanations aside from being honorific version of an imperative くれる？ Perhaps some local 弁 where it is used without implied politeness? Can おくれ forms be contracted in the same manner as おく forms (like 笑わないでおくれ → 笑わないどくれ, 行っておくれ → 行っとくれ)?

 

[Toritoribe]

Are there other explanations aside from being honorific version of an imperative くれる？ Perhaps some local 弁 where it is used without implied politeness?

I think ～とくれ is politer than ～てくれ even in dialects.

Can おくれ forms be contracted in the same manner as おく forms (like 笑わないでおくれ → 笑わないどくれ, 行っておくれ → 行っとくれ)?

Yes.

 

[Mike Cash]

I may as well 便乗 too, I suppose....

What the hell ever happened to @eeky ?

 

[Toritoribe]

Yeah, I, too, want to know it. Hope he is well, and still learning Japanese.