Why do you exist ?

[Mycernius]

Emoni, Dave. Behave
(hey, that rhymes. I'm a poet and didn't even know it)

 

[FrustratedDave]

emoni, Dave. Behave
(hey, That Rhymes. I'm A Poet And Didn't Even Know It)

Lolﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜ﾂ｜

 

[Red5]

i believe why god create us and i don't care what others think

 

[Drew-san]

Then there's no reason for you to criticize anyone else's opinions.

 

[Grandpa Frank]

Somtimes..............

it seems I only exist to change diapers and clean butts of my poor ol patients.

Uncle Frank

 

[ArmandV]

You are fluke of the universe, you have no right to be here. And whether you hear it or not, the universe is laughing behind your back.

 

[Anohito]

There is a facet of this issue that has not yet been addressed: The overt or covert "atheists" who actively support conservative religious systems, nearly always Christianity or sometimes Judaism. This is not a new phenomenon. As far back as 1997, the right-wing magazine Reason (sic) published the following article:

Origin of the Specious

Much of the article deals with Evolution vs. Creationism, but it does address conservative non-religious people who ally themselves with conservative Christians and why they do so. From the article:

Ironically, today many modern conservatives fervently agree with Karl Marx that religion is "the opium of the people"; they add a heartfelt, "Thank God!"

The article avoids using the words "atheist" or "agnostic", but it is easy enough to see what he means by the term "largely secular intellectuals".

The phenomenon of supposed "atheists" or "agnostics" who obviously support conservative religion can be seen elsewhere. The Usenet newsgroup alt.atheism is infested with so-called "atheists" or "agnostics" who vehemently profess to see no danger at all from Militant Reactionary Christians or Jews and who routinely make various "let them do wha they want" statements.

 

[Hime]

It is called evolution, which started from abiogenesis, which started from chemistry, which started when a nearby star exploded billions of years ago. You don't even need a planet for some life giving chemicals to form. Nebulae are full of all sorts of weird and wonderful chemicals. Water is one of the most common molecul;es in the universe. Essentially we are stardust.

then do you think that a system with all this complexities can exist on its own? it needs some more reasonable thinking to make this whole universe work so perfectly with no errors without any controlling......
I don't know if someone heard of this story.......its long but reading, so please guys read it.

Long ago in the city of Baghdad, there was a Muslim empire. On one side of the River Tigris were the royal palaces and on the other side was the city. The Muslims were gathered in the Royal Palace when an athiest approached them. He said to them, 'I don't believe in God, there cannot be a God, you cannot hear Him or see Him, you're wasting your time! Bring me your best debator and I will debate this issue with him.'
The best debator at the time was Imam Abu Hanifah Rahimullah. A messenger from amongst the Muslims was sent over the River Tigris to the city, where Abu Hanifah Rahimullah was, in order to tell him about the athiest who was awaiting him. On crossing the River Tigris, the messenger conveyed the message to Abu Hanifah Rahimullah saying, 'Oh Abu Hanifah, an athiest is waiting for you, to debate you, please come!' Abu Hanifah Rahimullah told the messeneger that he would be on his way.
The messenger went over the River Tigris once again and to the Royal Palaces, where everyone including the athiest awaited the arrival of Abu Hanifah Rahimullah. It was sunset at the time and one hour had passed, but Abu Hanifah Rahimullah still hadn't arrived. Another hour had passed, but still there was no sign of him. The Muslims started to become tense and worried about his late arrival. They did not want the athiest to think that they were too scared to debate him, yet they did not want to take up the challenge themselves as Abu Hanifah Rahimullah was the best of Debators from amongst the Muslims. Another hour passed, and suddenly the athiest started laughing and said, ' Your best debator is too scared! He knows he's wrong, he is too frightened to come and debate with me. I gurantee he will not turn up today.'
The Muslims increased in apprehension and eventually it had passed midnight, and the athiest had a smile on his face. The clock ticked on, and finally Abu Hanifah Rahimullah had arrived. The Muslims inquired about his lateness and remarked, 'Oh Abu Hanifah, a messenger sent for you hours ago, and you arrive now, explain your lateness to us.'
Abu Hanifah Rahimullah apologises for his lateness and begins to explain, while the atheist listens to his story.
'Once the messenger delivered the message to me, I began to make my way to the River Tigris, and on reaching the river bank I realised there was no boat, in order to cross the river. It was getting dark, and I looked around, there was no boat anywhere nor was there a navigator or a sailor in order for me to cross the river to get to the Royal Palaces. I continued to look around for a boat, as I did not want the athiest to think I was running away and did not want to debate with him.
I was standing on the river bank looking for a navigator or a boat when something caught my attention in the middle of the river. I looked forward, and to my amazement I saw planks of wood rising to the surface from the sea bed. I was shocked, amazed, I couldn't believe what I saw seeing. Ready made planks of wood were rising up to the surface and joining together. They were all the same width and length, I was astounded at what I saw.
I continued to look into the middle of the river, and then I saw nails coming up from the sea floor. They positioned themselves onto the boat and held the planks together, without them being banged. I stood in amazement and thought to myself, 'Oh Allah, how can this happen, planks of wood rising to the surface by itself, and then nails positioning themselves onto the boat without being banged?' I could not undertsand what was happening before my eyes.'
The athiest meanwhile was listening with a smile on his face. Abu Hanifah Rahimullah continued, 'I was still standing on the river bank watching these planks of wood join together with nails. I could see water seeping through the gaps in the wood, and suddenly I saw a sealant appear from the river and it began sealing the gaps without someone having poured it, again I thought, 'Ya Allah, how is this possible, how can sealant appear and seal the gaps without someone having poured it, and nails appear without someone having banged them.' I looked closer and I could see a boat forming before my eyes, I stood in amazement and was filled with shock. All of a sudden a sail appeared and I thought to myself, 'How is this happening, a boat has appeared before my eyes by itself, planks of wood, nails, sealant and now a sail, but how can I use this boat in order to cross the river to the Royal Palaces?' I stood staring in wonderment and suddenly the boat began to move. It came towards me against the current. It stood floating beside me while I was on the river bank, as if telling me to embark onto it. I went on the boat and yet again it began to move. There was no navigator or sailor on the boat, and the boat began to travel towards the direction of the royal palaces, without anyone having programmed it as to where to go. I could not understand what was happening, and how this boat had formed and was taking me to my destination against the flow of water. The boat eventually reached the other side of the River Tigris and I disembarked. I turned around and the boat had disappeared, and that is why I am late.'
At this moment, the athiest brust out laughing and remarked, 'Oh Abu Hanifah, I heard that you were the best debator from amongst the Muslims, I heard that you were the wisest, the most knowledgable from amongst your people. From seeing you today, I can say that you show none of these qualities. You speak of a boat appearing from nowhere, without someone having built it. Nails positioning themselves without someone having banged them, sealant being poured without someone having poured it, and the boat taking you to your destination without a navigator against the tide, your taking childish, your talking rediculous, I swear I do not belive a word of it!'
Abu Hanifah Rahimullah turned to the athiest and replied, 'You don't believe a word of it? You dont believe that nails can appear by themselves? You dont believe sealant can be poured by itself? You dont believe that a boat can move without a navigator, hence you don't believe that a boat can appear without a boat maker?'
The athiest remarked defiantly, 'Yes I dont believe a word of it!'
Abu Hanifah Rahimullah replied, 'If you cannot believe that a boat came into being without a boat maker, than this is only a boat, how can you believe that the whole world, the universe, the stars, the oceans, and the planets came into being without a creator?
The athiest astonished at his reply got up and fled.

I tried to add the source but I am still not allowed to.....

 

[Tsuyoiko]

I tried to add the source but I am still not allowed to.....

Try typing it like www(dot)blahblahblah(dot)com.

 

[Kansai Drifter]

I'm the type that has decided to more so live for the day, who knows what will come tomorrow, so make the most of today. I used to crave structure and commitment, but nowadays I'm way more out going since I had this same question floating in my head as it would in outer space.

 

[Hime]

Try typing it like www(dot)blahblahblah(dot)com.

Oh okay thaaaanks
www(dot)haqislam(dot)org/stories/abu-hanifah-and-the-atheist.htm
it works...^_^

 

[Anohito]

I never cease to be amazed at the ability of religious zealots to pretend that their elaborately constructed straw man arguments are evidence.

 

[Hime]

I never cease to be amazed at the ability of religious zealots to pretend that their elaborately constructed straw man arguments are evidence.

its not the case of look at that preacher and how is intelligence in proofing the evidence my friend, but what he was talking about having the same principle of what has been thought about the creation of the universe.
no thing can be made by itself and operated on itself.

Can your keyboard write your posts on its own without you typing?
its also the same logic

 

[Mycernius]

I never cease to be amazed at the ability of religious zealots to pretend that their elaborately constructed straw man arguments are evidence.

Totally agree.

no thing can be made by itself and operated on itself.

Then, by your own logic, god must have a creator. Something complex must have a designer. God is complex, so therefore must have a designer. Your own argument demands that.


Here is something I picked up from RD.net for people to enjoy

That picture of the Earth was taken by Voyager 1, 4 billion miles away as it left the solar system

 

[Hime]

Totally agree.
Then, by your own logic, god must have a creator. Something complex must have a designer. God is complex, so therefore must have a designer. Your own argument demands that.

sure, you are completely right, but the complex thing most be created by a more complex creator, scientists are still searching in the universe and discover something new everyday, they did not go far beyond our galaxy borders, they still have much to work on to cover only the little area around it....then what about the whole universe?
How they can know even a little bit of the creator that cause all of that complexities ?
but you know, this questions has been asked by many people in many sites, its something that will be beyond our understanding to know, and there is no way we can compare the creator with the creatures in terms of creating. I picked one of the answers for your questions in details

The first premise underlying the question is that every thing (or being) known to exist in the world was created. The second premise is that Allah is known to exist in the world. So the conclusion is that Allah also was created.
In fact, there are problems with the second premise as well as the conclusion. The point is that Allah does not exist in the world unlike material objects or physical beings. Allah's existence transcends the world of space and time, as it is He Who has created not only all the objects and beings of the world, but also all the laws of space and time governing material and temporal existence.
In other words, Allah is beyond the limits and constraints of space and time and so He is not subject to the physical rules and norms that determine the nature of things and beings in the visible world.
We can view the issue from another angle. If everything in the universe needs a cause, then Allah also needs a cause.
It is important to note here that everything in the universe has a beginning; it is because of this that everything needs a cause, whereas Allah does not have a beginning and He does not need a cause.
Einstein has shown that time is the fourth dimension contiguous with space. In other words, we live in a world that is a space-time continuum.
And as Allah is the Creator of time as well as space, He is not limited either by space or time, so He has no beginning in time. Therefore, He does not have a cause.
Also, there is enough evidence that the universe had a beginning. This can be shown from the laws of thermodynamics, the most fundamental laws of the physical sciences.
Now the question is: Is it possible to have a universe with a beginning, but without a cause?
The answer is obviously in the negative for the following reasons:
It is self-evident that things that begin have a cause. Indeed, no science is possible without the law of cause and effect, and the study of history would not make sense if causes do not lead to effects. What is more is that we cannot hold the absurd logical position that the universe created itself, because nothing comes out of nothing!
In short, to the question, "Who created Allah?" we can give this answer: By definition, Allah is the First Cause and the Uncreated Creator of all. For everything to exist or begin to be, a Ground of Being is necessary, and Allah is the Ground of Being. So without Allah, nothing can be, nothing is possible. So the question "Who created Allah?" is nonsensical; it takes us nowhere; it is a meaningless question somewhat like "What is the color of music?"

source: www(dot)readingislam(dot)com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE&cid=1173694786498

 

[Mycernius]

Again it is a strawman and proves absolutely nothing. But what should I expect from an apologist site. This type of reasoning is used by thesist of all sorts of religions. It is flawed thinking for them and it is flawed thinking for islam.

It is important to note here that everything in the universe has a beginning; it is because of this that everything needs a cause, whereas Allah does not have a beginning and He does not need a cause.

Typical get out of jail fee card played by every theist when faced with who created god. It is pathetic and flawed. It is a case of suspend logic when it comes to god and rely on magic. It proves nothing, it doesn't even prove that it is allah.
If you won't to play with this type of reasoning then it could be any god

On the other hand I can tell you exactly who created allah. Superstitious nomads who couldn't explain the world around them, so to explain things like thunder, life, stars, etc, they created spirits and gods to explain how it happened. Each spirit/god was given a name. One name given to one of these many gods was Allah. The one day Mohammad heard about the monotheistic religions from the west. They were fairer than the polytheism used by the Arab people. He identified the Christian god and the Jewish Yhwh with Allah, and Allah became his one god. After all the christian identified there god with Yhwh.
Before Mohammad, Allah was part of a pantheon of many gods. He even had three goddess daughters; Manat - goddess of fertility and fate, Allat - another fertilty goddess and ancient mother, and al-Uzza - goddess of the morning star. Allah appears to date from about 300 BC and was identified with the Semetic god Il, who, in turn, came from Canaanite mythology and was known as El by the northern tribes of Israel.
Yhwh, which Mohammad later identified with Allah as the one god, is most likely taken from the Egyptian god Aten, a manifestation of the sun god. Given probable monothesitic status by Akhenaten (Pharoah 1367-1350 BC)
Ref: Encyclopedia mythica under Islamic mythogy and Egyptian mytholgy.
Encyclopedia of God by Michael Jordan ISBN 1-85626-636-2

 

[nice gaijin]

Maybe God created man so man could return the favor? And in turn, man created God so there was someone to create our universe. Phew!

I'm disappointed no one picked up on my previous post, guess this is just another example of everyone standing on their soapbox shouting their opinions with their fingers in their ears.

 

[Jericho Desu]

Whether I exist because of some superior being or I exist just because I happened to become human instead of any other creature I don't know. All I do know is that well I'm here I want to make the most out of it, have fun, make relationships, have new experiences and sensations.
There are two important factors as to why I continue to survive regardless of the other things I mentioned, because 1 its in my nature to survive, I don't want to die, no creature does and 2 for the people who care about me. When you live you don't just live for yourself, you live for others, others want you to be happy and others depend on you, you have a responsibility to always be there.

I sound like a sort of anti-suicide poster, even though I 100% believe in what I just stated.

 

[Hime]

Again it is a strawman and proves absolutely nothing. But what should I expect from an apologist site. This type of reasoning is used by thesist of all sorts of religions. It is flawed thinking for them and it is flawed thinking for islam.
Typical get out of jail fee card played by every theist when faced with who created god. It is pathetic and flawed. It is a case of suspend logic when it comes to god and rely on magic. It proves nothing, it doesn't even prove that it is allah.

okay I dont want to go in depth in who created allah, because I dont need to proof it to you guys........by the way this is not a way to escape the discussion, but the existence of Allah is beyond our understanding even if we dig all the references in the earth so there is no need to brainstorm my mind when I am fully satisfied in what I believe
the main thread was why you exist not who created god.

If you won't to play with this type of reasoning then it could be any god
On the other hand I can tell you exactly who created allah. Superstitious nomads who couldn't explain the world around them, so to explain things like thunder, life, stars, etc, they created spirits and gods to explain how it happened. Each spirit/god was given a name. One name given to one of these many gods was Allah. The one day Mohammad heard about the monotheistic religions from the west. They were fairer than the polytheism used by the Arab people. He identified the Christian god and the Jewish Yhwh with Allah, and Allah became his one god. After all the christian identified there god with Yhwh.
Before Mohammad, Allah was part of a pantheon of many gods. He even had three goddess daughters; Manat - goddess of fertility and fate, Allat - another fertilty goddess and ancient mother, and al-Uzza - goddess of the morning star. Allah appears to date from about 300 BC and was identified with the Semetic god Il, who, in turn, came from Canaanite mythology and was known as El by the northern tribes of Israel.
Yhwh, which Mohammad later identified with Allah as the one god, is most likely taken from the Egyptian god Aten, a manifestation of the sun god. Given probable monothesitic status by Akhenaten (Pharoah 1367-1350 BC)
*I cant post the URL because I am still limited*
Encyclopedia of God by Michael Jordan ISBN 1-85626-636-2

anyways, the goddess that you mentioned were all worshiped by people back then before the Islam came, they were made form stone by people then worshiped by the same people again (what a logic!)
it is not like many goddess combined to be one. Islam came for the worshiping one God.....
because when Mohammed enter Mecca the first time after spreading Islam he destroyed all those goddess.....in other meaning the source you brought is a false one, please be more careful next time, and when you want to know something about a religion go and ask the people of the religion itself. dont just go anywhere and pick a reference
I am fully satisfied that there will be a resurrection day where all of us will be asked by our creator about what we have done in our life and at that time I will know every single details about the creation of this huge universe because my mind will be able to absorb all the facts
again I am not escaping from the answer but it was already stated in the Quran that there many things human dont know about.....and this topic is one of these things unknown by human

I don't exist, and neither do you.

I'm disappointed no one picked up on my previous post, guess this is just another example of everyone standing on their soapbox shouting their opinions with their fingers in their ears.

I am sorry its not like I dont care about your opinion but because I did not get it, how you are not exist when you are typing this post?
I am sorry if you misunderstand me.........

Whether I exist because of some superior being or I exist just because I happened to become human instead of any other creature I don't know. All I do know is that well I'm here I want to make the most out of it, have fun, make relationships, have new experiences and sensations.
There are two important factors as to why I continue to survive regardless of the other things I mentioned, because 1 its in my nature to survive, I don't want to die, no creature does and 2 for the people who care about me. When you live you don't just live for yourself, you live for others, others want you to be happy and others depend on you, you have a responsibility to always be there.
I sound like a sort of anti-suicide poster, even though I 100% believe in what I just stated.

yeah we have been granted our lives and we have to sustain it and protect it, thats why we are still alive

 

[Mycernius]

okay I dont want to go in depth in who created allah, because I dont need to proof it to you guys........
by the way this is not a way to escape the discussion, but the existence of Allah is beyond our understanding even if we dig all the references in the earth so there is no need to brainstorm my mind when I am fully satisfied in what I believe

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

in other meaning the source you brought is a false one, please be more careful next time, and when you want to know something about a religion go and ask the people of the religion itself. dont just go anywhere and pick a reference

Which source? All sources I cited are correct and can be verified by other sources. I'd like to know which are incorrect?
I will ask someone about their religion if it involves certain traditions or points of faith that I wish to know about. I will not ask someone about their religion when it is an issue of faith because I will get the party line and a rather subjective view of their faith ie: ask a christian whether of not Jesus existed. Well of course they are going to say yes.

Just as an aside. I notice you are in the UAE. I'm not sure how secular the UAE is compared to its neighbours. How are atheists treated in the UAE? I have met a few ex-muslims online and one thing is that the ones that live in the middle east keep their atheist status very private.

 

[Revenant]

Since I've lost faith in religion, I guess the question boils down to why would I prefer life to death? Guess they would be my son, curiousity for new experiences, and to contribute a bit to the quest for happiness (that which I'd argue everyone is after). I guess I also hope to give a slight hand in bridging the gap between a couple fields in science and the knowledge of the general masses (might help in doing away with such things as Capital Punishment or intolerance, or help temper the actions that stem from moral outrage).

 

[Hime]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

then if you can proof the opposite I will be grateful

Which source? All sources I cited are correct and can be verified by other sources. I'd like to know which are incorrect?
I will ask someone about their religion if it involves certain traditions or points of faith that I wish to know about. I will not ask someone about their religion when it is an issue of faith because I will get the party line and a rather subjective view of their faith ie: ask a christian whether of not Jesus existed. Well of course they are going to say yes.

how the hell someone who dont know about Islam and dont study the Quran can stated how Mohammed started his preaching to Islam. listen my friends, the only source of Islam is the only book that we are reading now which did not change from 1400 years, even the language that it revealed in did not change so far, it is not like the other holy books where the followers use only the translation.
dont you hear of anti-islamic sites like anti-Christianity, or Judaism sites, there are a lot around by the way, how can I tell, simply because they are saying what is not stated in Quran, and sometimes they dare to change some verses from Quran
if you want to know or read from the correct source, then go and read the main source which is the Quran

Just as an aside. I notice you are in the UAE. I'm not sure how secular the UAE is compared to its neighbours. How are atheists treated in the UAE? I have met a few ex-muslims online and one thing is that the ones that live in the middle east keep their atheist status very private.

how they are treated....actually there is freedom here in terms of religions, aside from Atheist, there are churches for christians here,
there are two atheists people I know here, one is a professor in the university I study in, the other one is a malay woman reside in one of my father properties. So I dont think they are treated badly especially here, since one of them is dealing with my family directly and she is so good woman.
another thing is that Dubai now is attracting people from everywhere, so especially there, there is no restrictions in religions as long as they are practicing their thoughts in peace

 

[Ashikaga]

Why are we being preached about some religion?

Hime, if what you stated in the OP is true and you are interested in hearing what other people think "why they exist", you should respect other people's views. If this thread is really just a soapbox for you to stand on and tell others why your views that are based on your religious beliefs are correct and theirs are wrong, I suggest you do it in your blog or something...

I exist because of a series of truly extraordinary coincidents.

 

[Hime]

Hime, if what you stated in the OP is true and you are interested in hearing what other people think "why they exist", you should respect other people's views. If this thread is really just a soapbox for you to stand on and tell others why your views that are based on your religious beliefs are correct and theirs are wrong, I suggest you do it in your blog or something...
I exist because of a series of truly extraordinary coincidents.

OMG ..........
Do I look like an arrogant to u guys and not listen to others??
I am very sorry if you misunderstood me and if you thought that I am not respecting the others replies
the discussion between me and Mycernius was not a sight for a disagreement, its just that everyone want to show why s/he hold his/her opinion tightly nothing else believe me.......I am interested in his thought and why he dont think that there is a god exist, I am really interest in the logic behind his faith.......I hope he is agree with me as well
okay I admit that sometimes I have a bad temper, but this is really not that I dont respect the other thoughts *I swear* or why the hell I will ask you from the beginning. its really because I do care about the others and I am studying the other thoughts and wanna learn more in my comparative religions self study
anyways if you guys dont like the discussion we can close the thread to not lose the friendship among us..........I will respect your decision though

 

[Glenski]

Why do I exist?

Philosophical reason:
Why not?

Biological reason:
Well, Dad thought Mom was hot, so one night they...

Financial reason:
To keep my wife in nice clothes and a good home, and to keep my kid in kindergarten (so far, that is).

Spiritual reason:
If you believe...

Actuarial reason:
I have not yet reached the average age at which most males from my country die.

Academic reason:
Because the students love me.