Shoud Japan be allowed to free up its military for offensive capablities?
- Thread starter Mr Man
- Start date
D
diceke
Guest
>How reliable is American defense?
Not so reliable. They can't possibly be Japan's permanent friend. Someday it's going to turn against you.
Not so reliable. They can't possibly be Japan's permanent friend. Someday it's going to turn against you.
The only threat that the Japanese should ever consider is the nuclear capability of North Korea which is unfortunately the most unpredictable regime around the world and I think almost everyone would agree with me about this so it wouldn't be illegitime for Japan to possess nuclear war heads to have them act as dissuasive means against North Korea since not many have the chance to have a such judicious neighbor. 
SailorJim
Registered
- 27 Jun 2007
- 3
- 1
I spent 3 years in Japan with the US Navy. Although the various Japanese self defense forces (Maritime Self Defense Force, Air Self Defense Force, etc, etc...) are very capable of defending themselves, it is my opinion that they are indeed becoming extremely dependent on the U.S.
They have state of the art equipment (most of which was bought from us), motivated personnel and a strong sense of pride in their work. All these things add up to an effective fighting force. However, the government spends percious little on Research and Development relying heavily on the U.S. and Britain for it's military upgrades. This is very strange since the Japanese excel at improving existing technology. Also, they drag in monetary commitment spending less than 2% of their GDP on defense.
I disagree diceke, in that America will not be permenant allies.
Japan provides an excellent forward deployed base for operations in Asia and we provide and excellent deterrant force against North Korea and China. it's a perfect symbyotic relationship and as long as NK remains a threat and China a reputable military power, this will not change.
The relationship is changing however, Japan is becoming more involved with it's own defense, first with the forming of the Ministry of Defense early this year. Second, as part of the deal that would allow the U.S. to bring the nuclear aircraft carrier USS GEORGE WASHINGTON to replace the aging non nuclear carrier USS KITTY HAWK, we were made to relocate 10,000 Marines from Okinawa to Guam. This shows that Japan is trying to take a stronger stance in their relationship with the U.S. perhaps trying to make the full transition from silent partner to active participant in it's national defense.
Wow, that was a lot longer than I intended. My point is that as the world situation develops, I do believe that Japan will be granted full military development and purchasing capabilities. I do believe than in the next 10 years, a pre-emptive strike may be needed against NK or possibly even China. I think the restraints placed on Japan after WWII are antiquated and no longer relative to the modern world. Only time will tell though.
They have state of the art equipment (most of which was bought from us), motivated personnel and a strong sense of pride in their work. All these things add up to an effective fighting force. However, the government spends percious little on Research and Development relying heavily on the U.S. and Britain for it's military upgrades. This is very strange since the Japanese excel at improving existing technology. Also, they drag in monetary commitment spending less than 2% of their GDP on defense.
I disagree diceke, in that America will not be permenant allies.
Japan provides an excellent forward deployed base for operations in Asia and we provide and excellent deterrant force against North Korea and China. it's a perfect symbyotic relationship and as long as NK remains a threat and China a reputable military power, this will not change.
The relationship is changing however, Japan is becoming more involved with it's own defense, first with the forming of the Ministry of Defense early this year. Second, as part of the deal that would allow the U.S. to bring the nuclear aircraft carrier USS GEORGE WASHINGTON to replace the aging non nuclear carrier USS KITTY HAWK, we were made to relocate 10,000 Marines from Okinawa to Guam. This shows that Japan is trying to take a stronger stance in their relationship with the U.S. perhaps trying to make the full transition from silent partner to active participant in it's national defense.
Wow, that was a lot longer than I intended. My point is that as the world situation develops, I do believe that Japan will be granted full military development and purchasing capabilities. I do believe than in the next 10 years, a pre-emptive strike may be needed against NK or possibly even China. I think the restraints placed on Japan after WWII are antiquated and no longer relative to the modern world. Only time will tell though.
CIA The world fact book
Military expenditures - percent of GDP
148 Japan 0.80 2006
Hopefully Japan should set up a diplomatic principle, "no assistance, if you spend more military spending (/GDP) than Japan".
Military expenditures - percent of GDP
148 Japan 0.80 2006
Hopefully Japan should set up a diplomatic principle, "no assistance, if you spend more military spending (/GDP) than Japan".
- 30 Apr 2007
- 1,173
- 84
SailorJim said:
SailorJim why in God's name would anyone pre-emptively strike China? North Korea I can see, they're a rogue nuclear capable state, but China has so much more going for it, they're interested mostly in economic development and integration. Obviously, unforseen circumstances are a factor, but at this point to lump China in with NK as a state that exhibits signs of becoming dangerous and unpredictable to the point of requiring a pre-emptive strike doesn't register with me.
Dogen Z
aka YOSUQUE
- 23 Apr 2007
- 1,072
- 22
Japan accepted MacArthur's condition of never developing the ability to fight a war again as part of its penance for the horrors of WWII. (BTW, MacArthur knew about the comfort women issue.) Most Japanese accept this condition even today and don't want to see it revised. It's kind of an act of contrition for the terrible deeds that occurred during the war. While Japan can't be 100% certain of how the U.S. will act if the need for defense occurs, it needs to accept this situation as a continuation of its pledge to never let the horrors that happen occur again.
IMO, this is a unique postion that should be respected and even emulated rather than following Bush's doctrine of shooting first and asking questions later...(Whoops! No WMD. My bad...sorry for all the dead people.)
IMO, this is a unique postion that should be respected and even emulated rather than following Bush's doctrine of shooting first and asking questions later...(Whoops! No WMD. My bad...sorry for all the dead people.)
Ewok85
先輩
- 14 Nov 2003
- 2,401
- 44
The only threat that the Japanese should ever consider is the nuclear capability of North Korea which is unfortunately the most unpredictable regime around the world and I think almost everyone would agree with me about this so it wouldn't be illegitime for Japan to possess nuclear war heads to have them act as dissuasive means against North Korea since not many have the chance to have a such judicious neighbor.
Maybe every country should have nuclear arms - by that thinking we'd never have a war ever again
I often hear that USA treats China as their main rival,
Now this message is confirmed by an USA navyman.
OK, If USA regard China as their enemy, we will try our best to be an eligible enemy of USA.
KirinMan
後輩
- 23 Jan 2007
- 2,173
- 68
I often hear that USA treats China as their main rival,
Now this message is confirmed by an USA navyman.
OK, If USA regard China as their enemy, we will try our best to be an eligible enemy of USA.
There is an huge difference between being a rival an an enemy. If you act like an enemy then by all means you should be treated as one, but if you are merely a rival than we shall be friends.
Oh and this comes from a US Marine.....Which would you rather face off against the Marines or the Navy?
the difference is not that huge,
Now USA treat China as rival
but when their "pre-emptive strike" begin, we will be enemy.
he said he "spent 3 years in Japan with the US Navy"
KirinMan
後輩
- 23 Jan 2007
- 2,173
- 68
My point is that we should spend more energy into being friendly rivals rather than work so darn hard at creating enemies between ourselves.
If China and the US want to duke it out someday, do me a favor and leave me out of it. I just want to live to be an old Grandpa with my Grandkids on my knee drinking a cold one together.
Yep they sure can and I dont want to be on the receiving end of a Tomahawk that's for sure. But when it's time to get down and dirty who ya gonna call........I don't want to mess with either one either.
For that matter I must be getting old and "mellow" but peace and learning to live with one another seems so much easier than all this damn killing that is going on in the world.
I am even getting tired of yelling at my kids when they bug the crap out'a me, must be an "age" thing.
Peace just seems like so much better an option than wanting to kill each other off.
Forgot to add, no "you" won't be my enemy because you and I have nothing to fight about....it's the idiot politicians in both countries that will think of something to p'off everyone else.
If it was left up to you and me I am pretty damn sure we could find a peaceful solution.
It isnt the military that starts wars, it the politicians.
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As I know most of Chinese people have positive feeling of USA
for its prosperity, democracy, freedom, creativity, vigor....
but USA always looks for enemy all over the world, if they can't
find an enemy, they even want to create one.
that is really nauseous.
Maybe their government is just a puppet of munitioner?
for its prosperity, democracy, freedom, creativity, vigor....
but USA always looks for enemy all over the world, if they can't
find an enemy, they even want to create one.
that is really nauseous.
Maybe their government is just a puppet of munitioner?
KirinMan
後輩
- 23 Jan 2007
- 2,173
- 68
gs all I ask is to remember that just because the "goverment" says one thing does not necessarily mean that "the people" think the same way.
The greatest thing about the USA is that every 4 years it has the opportunity to elect a new leader, and like it or not, does so in peace.
- 30 Apr 2007
- 1,173
- 84
If there was ever any kind of interventionist activity against China it would first surface in the markets anyway, as it may in fact be doing with the recent media flurry over the lack of safety and regulation in Chinese goods. The quickest way to keep a country thats in the process of the latter stages of development at bay is to infect its market with low consumer confidence and scare away some foreign investment. Dubbing the Chinese economy a bubble economy, blackflagging 20% of its exports as dangerous and what not, I'd say thats a good start.
SailorJim
Registered
- 27 Jun 2007
- 3
- 1
Okay...It appears I have set off a firestorm. Let me clarify.
When I spoke of war with China, I was talking about worst case scenarios.
Since China is becoming a fast growing economic power, the possiblity of a full conventional or Nuclear war is shrinking fast. The era of mutually assured destruction of the cold war is a thing of the past. Increasingly, wars are fought through the internet, the stock market and special operations.
Yes, there are conventional wars being fought by our brave Marines and Soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan but these wars are costly and often unpopular.
The only scenario I can imagine where we would go to war with China is if NK invaded the Republic of Korea or Japan. This would cause China to have to choose sides. That means that it's aging hard line communists would be at odds with the more moderate economically minded new generation. Abandonment of NK in a war would be a rejection of China's communist ideals
and a profound shift in the countries international standing. The possiblity of a strike on NK becomes more plausible as we grow closer to implementing missle shield technology, therefore rendering NK's budding nuclear arsenal and any leverage and intimidation factor. Hopefully that psychopath Kim Jong Il will croak and the country will take a different direction before that happens.
The American fleet in Japan mobilized when NK exploded a nuke underground in August of last year. I know exactly what lengths the US and Japan are willing to go to to protect themselves and the ROK.
I do not consider China an enemy and I hope I never will. We already have deranged muslims extremists to deal with, a million man standing army is not something I want to deal with anyway.
When I spoke of war with China, I was talking about worst case scenarios.
Since China is becoming a fast growing economic power, the possiblity of a full conventional or Nuclear war is shrinking fast. The era of mutually assured destruction of the cold war is a thing of the past. Increasingly, wars are fought through the internet, the stock market and special operations.
Yes, there are conventional wars being fought by our brave Marines and Soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan but these wars are costly and often unpopular.
The only scenario I can imagine where we would go to war with China is if NK invaded the Republic of Korea or Japan. This would cause China to have to choose sides. That means that it's aging hard line communists would be at odds with the more moderate economically minded new generation. Abandonment of NK in a war would be a rejection of China's communist ideals
and a profound shift in the countries international standing. The possiblity of a strike on NK becomes more plausible as we grow closer to implementing missle shield technology, therefore rendering NK's budding nuclear arsenal and any leverage and intimidation factor. Hopefully that psychopath Kim Jong Il will croak and the country will take a different direction before that happens.
The American fleet in Japan mobilized when NK exploded a nuke underground in August of last year. I know exactly what lengths the US and Japan are willing to go to to protect themselves and the ROK.
I do not consider China an enemy and I hope I never will. We already have deranged muslims extremists to deal with, a million man standing army is not something I want to deal with anyway.
Sukotto
先輩
- 9 Jul 2003
- 1,426
- 20
offensive war is a war crime.
But that is not what Preemptive war is
Preemptive war or a preemptive strike is
(according to wiki)
Preventive war is the other one which
you attack someone because you think someday in the future they may attack you.
Clearly you started the war.
Clearly you commit a war crime.
Japan should support South Korea's "Sunshine Policy"
and not aggressive actions by the US or military buildups which
benefit only defense contractors and paranoid politicians.
"War is a racket" after all.
- 21 May 2003
- 14,310
- 4,404
Hummm??
Aren't the Japanese military a branch of JREF ? If not they should be! ADMIN 1 for Commander in Chief !!
Uncle Frank
Aren't the Japanese military a branch of JREF ? If not they should be! ADMIN 1 for Commander in Chief !!
Uncle Frank
Sukotto
先輩
- 9 Jul 2003
- 1,426
- 20
uh!
:auch:
:sorry: duh.
And my last paragraph shouldn't be "Japan should..."
But rather something like "I think it would be good if..."
