What's new

Welcome to Japan Reference (JREF) - the community for all Things Japanese.

Join Today! It is fast, simple, and FREE!

Should a female be allowed to ascend the throne in Japan?

Mal

Original Prankster
Joined
18 Mar 2005
Messages
109
Reaction score
11
Every report I've seen about this shows polls that state the vast majority of the Japanese publc is infavor of re-writing the law to make sure that Aiko can accede to the throne.

So I think its not quite so much a question of if she should be allowed to, as to if you think the law will get re-written on basis of public opinion?
 

Hiroshi66

先輩
Joined
17 May 2004
Messages
525
Reaction score
12
Japan has to assert itself on several things: its statehood, its military, and its succession laws.
 

shiroma

先輩
Joined
1 Mar 2004
Messages
481
Reaction score
17
Hiroshi66 said:
Now, if Princess Aiko does not become empress, then the throne will pass to a cousin. It will thus break the main parent to child bloodline that has continued for the last few centuries.
Only a couple of centuries, just seven generations.

There were quite a few cases that past emperors did not have a son. In those cases the tradition was the cousin (brother's son,) perhaps father's brother's son or so forth would become the next empror. A recent example is the 118th Gomomozono who only had a daughter: 119th Kokaku was 114th Nakamikado's brother's son's son.
It has never mattered which is "the main bloodline."
In other words, what is important about an emperor/empress is, tracking down the father's father's father's... eventually leads to 1st Jimmu, not mother's father's mother's...

So the real issue is the emperor after Aiko, although it is perfectly fine that she becomes the empress (after all it has been done ten times before.) The problem is that current imperial family is kept minimum in size (124th Showa's three younger brothers and descendents) for these sixty years, and the ones who are qualified to become the emperor have no son.

The proper solution is to bring back the people who left the imperial family in 1947 ("return" has happened in 59th Uda, and there are now five families that keep the male line.) Crown prince or his brother could adopt male ones who inherit the blood without huge extra tax money allocation, too (has happened to 47th Junnin.) Or it is also possible that Aiko gets married with one of them. Or they could be married with crown prince's brother's daughters and 124th Showa's younger brother's sons' daughters.

Instead, the cabinet committee recommended that Aiko can get married with anyone, then update the imperial household law to allow her future child to become the emperor/empress. Media has been just reporting if Aiko will be allowed to become an empress, and ignores the more important change that has never been done in the 2600-year history. It is also very sneaky that the committe members slip in this kind of serious change after not-so-open "debates" that lasted for only less than a year.
 
Last edited:

kokusu

Kouhai
Joined
5 Oct 2004
Messages
79
Reaction score
8
Yes, I think a female should be allowed to ascend the Imperial throne of Japan.

As has been noted, by others (Index, Silverbackman, Hiroshi66, 窶督シ窶督ウ窶堋オ), there is precedent for the ascension of an Empress to the Imperial throne. I would offer a couple more thoughts about such precedent . . .

If we extend the argument even further back to mythic lore, one might also consider the relevance of the creation myths which features the goddess Amaterasu Ōmikami as the progenitor of the Yamato line which in turn leads to the Japanese people and the Imperial line. I am not confusing myth with historical precedent here, but only note these stories because I believe in a culture's mythos important values can be discerned. In this case, I believe that legends and myths surrounding Amaterasu demonstrate that there is long-standing potential within the Japanese culture for acceptance of female ascendancy into power.

Also, consider that prior to the 12th century, women were still able to be effective landholders in Japan, only being greatly reduced in cultural status, privilege, and position with the rise of the bushi and the Kamakura shogunate which shifted the reins of land-ownership to the military bureaucracy (though a general decline in the status of women in Japan had been in effect for a couple of centuries by this point). Again, this is just to say that there are times in Japanese culture/history when women were afforded certain measures of power.

Beyond a cultural support (at least in the broad context) for the ascension of a women to the Imperial throne, one might consider the nature of the throne itself and whether or not it is suited to an Empress.
First, since 1945 the Imperial throne has been greatly reduced in its political clout. I would argue that due to international agreement and constitutional restraint, the Emperor of Japan is no longer a political head-of-state, but rather a 'cultural' head-of-state.
As noted in a National Geographic article, ""One of the major roles of the imperial family is to preserve traditions like [cormorant fishing]," said Ryuji Takahashi, manager of the Special Ceremonies Department of the Imperial Household Agency, the government unit that runs the palace and pays a small group of fishermen like Mr. Sugiyama. "It's not very economical, but it is an important part of our cultural history," he said." (National Geographic, Januray 2001, p.100)
So, I interpret the role of the Imperial throne to be that of symbolism; that is, the Emperor/Empress represent the traditions, the pageantry, the grace, the nobility, the heritage, and the grandeur of what is finest in Japanese culture both past and present. This is a function that I don't see as necessarily being sex specific. In fact, by allowing a Empress to ascend the throne, I think Japan would be making a fine statement about the continued progress of its culture.

As to whether or not there should be such things as emperors and empresses in the first place . . . well, I believe that hierarchies are an inherent trait of human nature; some people will be high and some shall be low in the scheme of things. I can't even really think of it as a right or wrong issue, but merely as something that just is. That being the case, I figure perhaps the best way to approach the concept of sovereign individuals/institutions is to try and ensure than you have the best sovereigns/institutions as possible. Considering the nature of the Japanese Emperor, say, about 65 years ago compared with now . . . I think the Imperial household is doing a mighty fine job these days.

Finally, considering that some revisions to existing law would need to be made to allow for a modern day empress . . . hey, where there's a will there's a way, ne? :)
 

celtician

先輩
Joined
23 Apr 2005
Messages
70
Reaction score
7
Well why not?? In ancient times these isles had a matriarchal cult and worshipped the moon, so why not go back to origins because if not these inbreds (from Korea) will die out.
 
Joined
18 Jan 2005
Messages
10,176
Reaction score
647
Prime Minister Koizumi may lose its position because of "Imperial House Act" revision.

1/3 of a member of the Diet of the Liberal Democratic Party object by "Imperial House Act" revision.
 

Yokan

後輩
Joined
28 Aug 2005
Messages
615
Reaction score
4
hmm...I don't know much about the ways of the throne, However, yes, i do believe women/a women should eb allowed to ascend to the Throne. There has always been a first female for everything: For example Margret Thacher (spelt wrong sorry), who was the Prime Minister of Britain at one point.

This may be a cultural thing in Japan though, a tradition. Then again, rules are made out to be broken.
 
Joined
18 Jan 2005
Messages
10,176
Reaction score
647
It is misunderstanding.
As for the Liberal Democrat, "Aiko" does not oppose becoming the Emperor.
When a child of "Aiko" became the next Emperor,
The blood of the Emperor house for 2600 years in Japan is lost.
http://www.angelfire.com/journal2/hikojuro/
A problem of "ツ青ウ窶慊敖青ォ(a right system and blood relationship)"

窶ーFツ債イ窶敖ェ窶敖ヲ窶ケ{ツ神窶佚オナス窶毒陳?USA HACHIMANGU SHINTAKU CASE)
(769 years , The incident which was going to usurp the Emperor's status)

Jingokeiun 3 (769) of the Nara era.
The Emperor Shotoku received a divine message that "a road mirror should have taken the Throne" from Usa Hachiman shrine.
It is a case assumed that a Yuge road mirror was going to get Emperor rank.
 
Joined
18 Jan 2005
Messages
10,176
Reaction score
647
NEWS 🙂

ツ秋ナステや?ケ{窶ケIナスqツ親窶ーツ、窶敕
Princess Kiko pregnant
Prince Akishino, left, and Princess Kiko talk at a news conference on Nov. 22 last year prior to his 40th birthday. (Pool photo)Princess Kiko, wife of Prince Akishino, is pregnant, a development that may influence debate on a bill that would allow female members of the Imperial Family to ascend to the throne, it was learned Tuesday.
http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/national/news/20060207p2a00m0na025000c.html
 

Tollen

先輩
Joined
2 Feb 2006
Messages
80
Reaction score
1
hmmmmmm...
the UK monarchy had no real power anymore but does give a good reflection of societies ideals...
therefore if the japanese monarchy is similar then public opinion will influence it greatly...
 

Tsubamegaeshi

後輩
Joined
9 Feb 2006
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
The Yamato bloodline? How far back do you think the current bloodline goes?

Currently, the second Prince's wife is pregnant with their 3rd child. Maybe that child will be the future Emperor.
 

shiroma

先輩
Joined
1 Mar 2004
Messages
481
Reaction score
17
This is an article by a Canadian liar called Norimitsu Onishi:

To Japanese Nationalists, Only the Y Chromosome Counts
IT was one of the biggest rallies in support of Japan's imperial system since the end of World War II: Some 10,300 men and women gathered at the Budokan martial arts arena to protest a proposal that would let women become empresses and pass along title to the Chrysanthemum Throne.
It was not the rally "in support of Japan's imperial system" but in support of Japan's imperial system's TRADITION.

They were not "to protest a proposal that would let women become empresses" but to protest a proposal that would let a CHILD of an empress succeed the throne. That is a huge difference.

Koizumi's private committee members' red feminist background is the key to understand the strategy to mislead people.
Political heavyweights like Mr. Hiranuma are now stating the myth as fact.
Stating a myth is not stating it as fact. No one believes that it was 2665 years ago when the system was founded. As Alice King said at the rally, a myth is unnecessary to found a nation while it is nice to have one.
It does not make one a right-wing nationalist not to keep passionately denying the myth.
In addition, the foreign minister, Taro Aso, has said that because Japanese soldiers died for the emperor, the emperor should visit the Yasukuni Shrine, the memorial to Japan's war dead and 14 Class A war criminals.
Another lie that had been pointed out in this post.
What these comments have in common is the belief that the imperial system stands at the core of Japan, defines Japan 窶 is, in fact, Japan.
That is why a certain one-party dictatorship nation want to destroy the system. First making a child of an empress to be the succeeding emperor, then start questioning authenticity by pointing out the violation of the tradition. The goal is another Tibet called Democratic People's Republic of Japan.

Interestingly Onishi's office is located in the headquarter building of a Japanese newspaper publisher which was the only one praising Cultural Revolution back in 1960s.
 

MajideSaiaku

tsuyaku o tsukete kudasai
Joined
19 Jan 2005
Messages
1,381
Reaction score
56
Forget the long drivelling debate, its a simple issue.
If they dont allow female to sit on the throne, the imperial line dies.
Its allow it or die.
Understanding that, and on the understanding the japanese people want their imperial family means they will eventually choose the only course of action avaliable to them.
But isnt one of the royal family women pregnant again?......it could be a boy, in which case this issue could be held off for another generation at least.
The opposition to a female line is part of a larger nationalist movement that seeks a tougher stance against China and North Korea, presses aggressively for a revisionist history of Japan's wartime past, and pushes the myth of Japanese racial exceptionalism. Indeed, many at the rally are the same politicians, scholars and journalists who contend that the Nanking Massacre was vastly exaggerated, that Japan invaded continental Asia to liberate it and that Japan was tricked into war by the United States.
Historians trace the start of Japan's imperial system to the fourth or fifth century, though Japanese myth says the first emperor, Jimmu, a descendant of the sun goddess Amaterasu, began his reign 2,665 years ago. Political heavyweights like Mr. Hiranuma are now stating the myth as fact. In addition, the foreign minister, Taro Aso, has said that because Japanese soldiers died for the emperor, the emperor should visit the Yasukuni Shrine, the memorial to Japan's war dead and 14 Class A war criminals.
What these comments have in common is the belief that the imperial system stands at the core of Japan, defines Japan ツ― is, in fact, Japan. To conservatives in a country that has been transformed by outside forces in everything from its laws to its social mores, the imperial system is the one institution that has remained purely Japanese.
Honestly, as much as i support the imperial institution, if they are going to be feul to a dangerous aspect of japanese politics, maybe losing them and becomming a republic will once and for all slay the spectre of a totaly out of its mind Japan with the insane belief the japanese are special and stuff.
Its that attitude which caused the pacific war durring WW2...
Princess Masako became the bête noire of the right wing and, especially in the last six months, the target of ceaseless attacks in the popular press.
I find this hard to believe, the Japanese media dont make a habit of putting a negetive light on the imperial family.
Conservatives also oppose reforms that would promote gender equality ツ― or what the Japanese call a "gender free" society. The result is that, compared to women in other advanced countries, Japanese women have little economic or political power.
They do, however, have power over childbearing. And Japan's plummeting birthrate suggests that many women are deciding not to have children, boy or girl.

I dunno, it doesnt seem like an overly unfair country, women just prefer to be women there. Though the last line is true, i know if it could be avoided i wouldnt want to bring up a kid in any one of the japanese big cities, that and for others, there life is too busy and hectic and the home too small to want kids.
 

shiroma

先輩
Joined
1 Mar 2004
Messages
481
Reaction score
17
nurizeko said:
If they dont allow female to sit on the throne, the imperial line dies.
This misleading statement should have been "if they don't allow children of empresses to sit on the throne, the imperial line dies" which is false. The other methods had been already posted here.
名無し said:
The proper solution is to bring back the people who left the imperial family in 1947 ("return" has happened in 59th Uda, and there are now five families that keep the male line.) Crown prince or his brother could adopt male ones who inherit the blood without huge extra tax money allocation, too (has happened to 47th Junnin.) Or it is also possible that Aiko gets married with one of them. Or they could be married with crown prince's brother's daughters and 124th Showa's younger brother's sons' daughters.
It is interesting that the cabinet committee has been trying to ban those methods. Not allowing contingency plans suggests that their true objective is to make the imperial family go extinct, which is certainly easier than executions after a revolution.

This is an article by another liar, a committee member:

Heirs for the Japanese Throne

Her false accusation goes,
Prince Tomohito of Mikasa, a cousin of the present emperor, has voiced doubts about allowing a woman to succeed to the throne and has suggested that the former princely houses or the system of imperial concubines could be restored, but one can only be taken aback at the anachronism of his views.
What the prince wrote in a periodical was,
国内外共に今の世相からは少々難しいかと思います
"'Difficult' (read: impossible) due to how modern society goes" (on concubines) is not called "suggestion."

Again, the issue is not empress but female line. There have been quite a few incorrect statements on the topic, and there are people who feel happy to see the end of the imperial system.
 

Mars Man

先輩
Rest in Peace
Joined
28 Jul 2005
Messages
5,172
Reaction score
166
This is another thread which has been staring me in the face the last couple of days, and which I had no intention of opening and answering, but here I am.

Of course it should be rosie, pink OK for a girl to ascend to the throne. No big deal...this should be the 21st century right? Laws, by-laws, traditions and or not, it should be ok. AND...if it isn't, by those in control, then the whole shabang needs to be thrown out with the concept that Article 9 is not simply art.
 

shiroma

先輩
Joined
1 Mar 2004
Messages
481
Reaction score
17
This is a much better Reuters article reporting the rally without distortion of hatred.
Many conservatives say they do not object to Aiko taking the throne but are against passing it to her children, because that would break the direct line of paternal succession they say has been unbroken for 2,000 years.

Instead, most traditionalists favor reinstating branches of the imperial family that were abolished after World War II in an effort to find a male heir.
The article also mentions that ones who were able to come there in the weekday afternoon were mostly retired senior people.
 

Han Chan

先輩
Joined
14 Mar 2006
Messages
402
Reaction score
16
Gender equality?

According to the Japanese Constitution there should be equality between males and females - so why not also a female on the throne?
What would be far more important would be if more women were democratically elected. If women had more power in Japan the society would become better for all.
 

shiroma

先輩
Joined
1 Mar 2004
Messages
481
Reaction score
17
名無し said:
Heirs for the Japanese Throne

Her false accusation goes,
Prince Tomohito of Mikasa, a cousin of the present emperor, has voiced doubts about allowing a woman to succeed to the throne and has suggested that the former princely houses or the system of imperial concubines could be restored, but one can only be taken aback at the anachronism of his views.
Prince Mikasa has never "voiced doubts about allowing a woman to succeed to the throne" in the essay in ざ・とど vol.88 published on Sep. 30th 2005. Another big lie.

It shows, by carefully going through all paragraphs discussing the topic.
扠、世間では、「女帝問題」が囂しいので私の意見を、『ともさんのひとり言』として聞いて頂きます。本来は首相傘下の審議会に諮られていますので政治問題であり口出し出来ないのですが、本会報は市販されておらず〝身内″の小冊子と理解し〝プライヴェート″に語るという体裁を取ります。
論点は二つです。一つは二六六五年間の世界に類を見ない我が国固有の歴史と伝統を平成の御世でいとも簡単に変更して良いのかどうかです。
万世一系、一二五代の天子様の皇統が貴重な理由は、神話の時代の初代・神武天皇から連綿として一度の例外も無く、「男系」で今上陛下迄続いて来ているという厳然たる事実です。生物学的に言うと、高崎経済大学の八木秀次助教授の論文を借りれば、神武天皇のY1染色体が継続して現在の皇室全員に繋がっているという事でもあります。
歴史上人名十方(御二人が二度践祚されている)の、「女帝」がおられましたが、全員在世中、独身又は寡婦(未亡人)でいらして、配偶者を求められておられませんので、「男系」が守られ、「女系」には至っていない訳です。
二つ目は、現在のままでは、確かに〝男子″が居なくなりますが、皇室典範改正をして、曾て歴史上現実にあった幾つかの方法論をまず取り上げてみる事だと思います。順不同ですが、
①臣籍降下された元皇族の皇籍復帰。
②現在の女性皇族(内親王)に養子を元皇族(男系)から取る事が出来る様に定め、その方に皇位継承権を与える。(差し当り内廷皇族と直宮のみに留める)
③元皇族に、廃絶になった宮家(例=秩父宮・高松宮)の祭祀を継承して戴き再興する。(将来の常陸宮家・三笠宮家もこの範疇に入る)
以上の様な様々な方法論を駆使してみる事が先決だと思います。
④として、昔の様に、「側室」を置くという手もあります。私は大賛成ですが、国内外共に今の世相からは少々難しいかと思います。
余談ですが、明治・大正両天皇共に、「御側室」との間のお子様です。「継続は力なり」と言いますが、古代より国民が、「万世一系の天子様」 の存在を大切にして来てくれた歴史上の事実とその伝統があるが故に、現在でも大多数の人々は、「日本国の中心」「最も古い家系」「日本人の原型」として、一人一人が何かしら〝体感″し、「天子様」を明解な形であれ、否とに拘らず、敬って下さっているのだと思います。
陛下や皇太子様は、御自分達の家系の事ですから御自身で、発言される事はお出来になりませんから、民主主義の世であるならば、国民一人一人が、我が国を形成する、「民草」の一員として、二六六五年の歴史と伝統に対しきちんと意見を持ち発言をして戴かなければ、日本国という、「国体」の変更に向かう事になりますし、いつの日か、「天皇」はいらないという議論に迄発展するでしょう。
 
Last edited:

jieshi

Japaustralian
Joined
5 May 2004
Messages
540
Reaction score
18
When it comes down to it, this is a relatively simple issue that politics can complicate very easily:
a) Does Japan lose it's Royal status symbol due to not wanting a female as that symbol of power?
OR
b) Does Japan keep its Royal symbol of power by changing a law to suit the modern age where women are seen as being equal with men (though that is still changing in Japan)?

I'm in favour of instating a female.
 
Last edited:

shiroma

先輩
Joined
1 Mar 2004
Messages
481
Reaction score
17
名無し said:
There is a sentence in the article
However, both the emperor and the crown prince have let it be known that they will not express themselves on this subject because of their status.
Crown prince recently made an interesting comment:

Press Conference by His Imperial Highness The Crown Prince on the Occasion of His Birthday
As I have been saying all along, I believe that the ideal role of the Imperial Family is to assist His Majesty The Emperor, hope for the happiness of the people of Japan and try to share the joys and sorrows of the people, while respecting the traditions of the Imperial Family.
People who read between the lines might notice that his highness hinted that he is against the Advisory Council (Koizumi's committee) with the choice of the words "respecting the traditions."
 

dangdaga

先輩
Joined
21 Apr 2006
Messages
24
Reaction score
0
As I already said in a similar thread, they really need to change the law to show that they really are a modern, progressive land and thus supporting equal opportunity
60158873350587ke-1.jpg
 

shiroma

先輩
Joined
1 Mar 2004
Messages
481
Reaction score
17
NHK
The First Male Baby Born to Japan's Imperial Family in 41 Years​

Princess Kiko, the wife of the Emperor's younger son, Prince Akishino, gave birth to a boy on Wednesday in Tokyo. The baby is the first male child for Japan's Imperial family in 41 years after his father, Prince Akishino.

Princess Kiko's baby was delivered by Caesarean section at Aiiku Hospital in central Tokyo. The Imperial Household Agency says the princess gave birth to a healthy baby boy at 8:27 a.m.

The baby was 48.8 centimeters tall and weighed 2,558 grams, a little lighter than average. The Imperial Household Agency says the weight won't cause any problems because the princess was in her 37th week of pregnancy, long enough for the baby to develop sufficiently in the uterus.

The baby boy is third in line to the throne, after the Crown Prince and the baby's father, Prince Akishino.

Princess Kiko entered hospital on August 16 due to a complication called placenta previa, in which the placenta partially blocks the uterus. The condition could have caused bleeding in the last phase of the pregnancy. She underwent Caesarean section surgery nearly 20 days before her due date.

For the Emperor and Empress, the baby is their fourth grandchild and first grandson.
 
Last edited:

Kinsao

Horizon Rider
Joined
8 May 2005
Messages
8,423
Reaction score
138
Good news! 👍
I am just happy that mother and baby are OK. :)
 
Top Bottom