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America Should Get Out of Japan, Now!!!

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Blue Tiger

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First, I will say that Japan brought its problems on itself, when it bombed Pearl Harbor. Also, Japan had no business invading China, Okinawa, the Philippines, and the numerous other countries. Also, Japan was guilty of attrocities toward civilians and prisoners of war.

As much as some of you irrationally hate America, America saved Japan from a real hell--being taken over by the former Soviet Union! Plus, unlike any other war victor in all of history--America gave you your country back. Plus, America gave you billions of dollars in aid to develop into a major economic power, modernizing your infrastructure, such that--in many ways, such as in the steel industry--it surpassed the U.S.

Now, it is a new century in a new millenium. It is time for the U.S. military to pull out of Japan and South Korea, where they are hated by the people. It is time for free Asian countries to determine their own futures and directions. It is time for free Asian countries to deal with the very real menace of China, together and to form their own alliances.

I am a left-wing liberal, and George W. Bush is not my president. That fool is NOT my leader! Finally, the American people--according to the latest polls--are awakening to what I knew when the first Bush was president. HE AND HIS CRIMINAL GANG CAN'T BE TRUSTED!

My wife is from Taiwan, and I fear for her family. I fear that Bush and his global corporate (that Japanese corporations) will secretly sell the free independent nation of Taiwan to Communist China, and that the communists will execute millions of Taiwanese as a lesson to those in China who desire freedom and human rights.

Global corporations cannot be trusted to protect their citizens. Being global means that they are loyal only to profits. Whether American, Japanese, British, or German, the corporate leaders have no alligences to people or to countries. The power elite can choose where to live. But, whether they are eaten by bigger predators...that is outside of our lowly influence.

The U.S. should get the hell out of Japan and South Korea. The American people's standard of living is rapidly declining. We can no longer afford a military to protect others. Japan and Germany has had the great luxury of America's protection, being able to invest in a profitable infrastructure, in the development of factories at America's expense.

Japan has long surpassed America in quality automobiles, consumer electronics, cameras, etc. Japan has gone from copying to innovating. Those are achievements that are evidence that Japan can easily surpass China militarily. And make no mistake about it, China's goal is to destroy both Japan and Taiwan! And America!

If you haven't noticed, in China's media, the anti-Japan jingoism and stirring its people to a war fever-pitch against China, with the daily demands for apologies for WWII attrocities, then you are hopelessly naive and dead to reality.

As I have emphasized: Japan cannot count on America, not on this administration for protection. Japan has to aggressively take on its own protection or face being secretly sold to China!
 

RockLee

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Wow, almost sounds like a SF-novel.☝
Aren't those wild speculations :? Maybe too wild.
 

Blue Tiger

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There are times that reality is stranger than fiction. It is all too true that China of pouring far more money into developing its military--a truly offensive military--than any other country, including the U.S.

Not long ago, General Zhu of China threatened a massive launch of nuclear missles on the U.S., if the U.S. interferes WHEN China attacks Taiwan. The general's remarks were not a slip of the tongue, nor was it not without prior knowledge by the civilian leadership.

In China, the military takes all final presidence in policy.

And that piece of crap, George W. Bush, is on his way to China, as a part of his Asian tour to get away from the heat he is taking at home! :p
 

ArmandV

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Blue Tiger said:
I am a left-wing liberal, and George W. Bush is not my president. That fool is NOT my leader! Finally, the American people--according to the latest polls--are awakening to what I knew when the first Bush was president. HE AND HIS CRIMINAL GANG CAN'T BE TRUSTED!

The above paragraph explains it all. Sorry, Charlie, foreign policy can't be run by opinion polls. Do you think swell guys like Kim Chung "Mentally" Il of North Korea wouldn't try to take advantage of the vacuum left by a U.S. withdrawl? Somebody's living in a dream world.
 

lexico

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Whether Bush's US or some other's, war means business, and more export of US produced goods contributing to US GDP figures. Wouldn't that be worth a little bit of blood spilt overseas wherever so long as US casualties are minimal in comparison ?

Taiwan, as a hot spot, will remain intact for the risks of losing trust are too high.
Japan should not have touched it in 1874 and 1895.
Look what a big mess; but does Japan care to offer aid in a peaceful compromise between the divided people of mainland and the Taiwanese ?
What about the other minorities that were subjected to discrimination and genocidal policies of Imperial Japan ? Before Japan can appeal for pity, should it not act in accordance to the idea of mutual respect and reparing it wrongs like a responsible body of civilised people ?

Japan's 1874 Expedition to Taiwan ROBERT ESKILDSEN
In search of a lost cultural treasure Part 1 Kenny Ehman
 

ArmandV

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lexico said:
Whether Bush's US or some other's, war means business, and more export of US produced goods contributing to US GDP figures. Wouldn't that be worth a little bit of blood spilt overseas wherever so long as US casualties are minimal in comparison ?

You think that's the reason for war? What a ridiculous statement!
 

kirei_na_me

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It really bothers me when people say war is good for business. A lot of my friends say that. And "as long as US casualties are minimal in comparison?"? I might be in the minority, but I don't want any casualties. I don't want casualties for us and don't want us causing anyone else casualties.

Maybe that's a really unrealistic view, though. I'm such a pacifist. :p
 

kokusu

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First, having the U.S. stationed in Japan is part of Japan's defense/military strategy. So, when it is argued that the U.S. should get out of Japan so that Japan can freely come up with its only military defense strategy, I argue that Japan already has come up with a defense strategy: rely on the U.S.!:LOL:

And, really, this is absolutely a smart thing, too! Consider:

1) If the U.S. pulled out of Japan and left Japan's regional security concerns up to Japan itself to fulfill, Japan would inarguably have to increase the size and strength of its military. This, would exacerbate versus alleviate regional tensions, as very few of Japan's neighbors want a militarily stronger Japan.

2) Form a regional alliance to counterbalance China with who?!? Both Korea's, Russia, Viet Nam, Pakistan, and numerous other regional powers are distrustful of Japan (for more information on why, go get a history book about WWII).

3) The U.S. has its own regional concerns in Asia. A U.S. presence insures involvement and a modicum of stability (realist school of political theory). Let's not forget that despite recent troubles, the U.S. is still the big kid on the international playground. Sometimes the big kid can make the other kids toe the line. Besides, if, as you say, everyone hates the U.S., if you are Japan, wouldn't you want a U.S. presence in Asia to take some of the heat off yourself???

The U.S. really has too much vested interest in the region to just let Japan get demolished if things came to blows (for example, commercial trade, computer technologies, Pinky ST. collectible figures 😊 ). This being regardless of whichever idiot happens to be in the White House.

Blue Tiger said:
Japan has long surpassed America in quality automobiles, consumer electronics, cameras, etc. Japan has gone from copying to innovating. Those are achievements that are evidence that Japan can easily surpass China militarily.

Let me get this straight: Japan makes really good cameras and video games so they could easily clobber China in a miltary conflict? Are you freakin' kidding me? Does a population of 120 million versus 1.5 billion come into play anywhere in your thinking? I mean, that's a lot of rolls of film to shoot if you are Japan . . .☝

Blue Tiger said:
And make no mistake about it, China's goal is to destroy both Japan and Taiwan! And America!

Riiight . . . because they don't want to have markets to sell to. And because they don't want any more U.S. grain to help feed their swollen population. And because why retake control of Taiwan when you can really prove your point and just wipe it off the map?
And, hey, why stop with Japan, Taiwan, and the U.S.? I bet China just wants to destroy the whole world . . .:devilish:

AUGH!!! This is the nuttiest thread . . .:auch: :LOL:
 

Akakubisan

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Blue Tiger said:
I am a left-wing liberal, and George W. Bush is not my president. That fool is NOT my leader! Finally, the American people--according to the latest polls--are awakening to what I knew when the first Bush was president. HE AND HIS CRIMINAL GANG CAN'T BE TRUSTED!
I like that, it's almost funny. Unfortunately the U.S. is a democracy and if you are a U.S. citizen BUSH is your president. If you don't like that then you can fix that in 2008 with the next election. It's called voting.
 

mobeen

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I definately think America should pull out of japan and i am pray that one day they do. The Bush hiearchy is coming to a collapse. If you live in the US and flip to the news channels you hear that democrats and now even republicans are against the president on the iraq war and now more americans are aware than before. I think this will definately affect the positions of american soldiers in all countries. Not only japan.
 

Hyde_is_my_anti-drug

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Yes, the USA has no business in Asia and yes, Bush is a megalomaniac and I wouldn't trust him with anything least of all my country or anyone else's. The US should have been out of Asia a long time ago but now there's a problem keeping it from leaving. Because the US did not leave when it should it's stayed in so long that dependency has built up and as someone pointed out the huge gap in security that would happen after the US pulled out would get taken advantage of causing the very thing we're trying to avoid here. War in Asia. So it's a lose/lose situation. If the US stays Asia loses and if it leaves Asia still loses.
The US SHOULD have long ago allowed Japan to defend itself by itself, slowly building back up it's strength enough so that it would not get crushed once the US pulled out. But the US government is made up of power hungry, bickering, politicians who in all honesty don't give a damn. The US has become greedy and quite comfortable with it's little nest it's made itself in Asia, it's extortion. What started as a means of protection has turned into the very thing it was originally designed to protect against. The US has become the very kind of nation that it's supposed to stand against. We've becoming flaming control freaks. We're using our positions in Asia and around the world not for the countries' protection but our on profit. For some reason the US seems to think that everything other countries do is our business and that we should have a say in it. Wrong. But now the threat of a real problem in Asia is surfacing and the US is stuck in it's own glue. It's going to be a real mess if something doesn't change soon. The problem is that were politics is concerned nothing in the way of a change like this happens quickly. Because the process gets bogged down by the stupid politicians who as a law of nature cannot agree on anything. So by the time the USA gets it's s**t together it'll probably be way, way too late.
I'm not completely sure what I just said made any sense at all but oh well. I'm tired and I'm so sick of this whole situation and the world's stupidity in gen.
 

Uncle Frank

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It Would Be Interesting.......

to see what would happen if the US pulled out of South Korea. I wonder how long it would take for the North's army to move into our abandoned bases? I think they call such things "power vacumes" ?

Frank

 

lastmagi

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Hyde_is_my_anti-drug said:
But the US government is made up of power hungry, bickering, politicians who in all honesty don't give a damn. The US has become greedy and quite comfortable with it's little nest it's made itself in Asia, it's extortion. What started as a means of protection has turned into the very thing it was originally designed to protect against. The US has become the very kind of nation that it's supposed to stand against. We've becoming flaming control freaks.

I'm starting to think (well, I've been thinking for a while, actually) that the whole world is undergoing some new Dark Age, what with leaders like Bush and Koizumi running around.
 

Doc

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lastmagi said:
I'm starting to think (well, I've been thinking for a while, actually) that the whole world is undergoing some new Dark Age, what with leaders like Bush and Koizumi running around.

That is why I say McCain should have been President. At least he is a man who cares about his country, its people, and the world's interest for that matter, plus he is a Republican too! He believes we need to stop oil consumption, save the envirnoment, stop depending on China, and various other apects that both the world and America are concerned with. Oh well at least the problems will not last that much longer. With the heat on the White House in full swing, I have the funny feeling Bush is going to get impeached before the end of his second term. Hey we should do it like what Al Frankin suggested. Elect the new Congress in 2007, have them in session in 2008 just two weeks before the new President takes office (which will be a Democrat no doubt), impeach Bush and get him fired, arrested, and started drinking again in the same afternoon.

Doc 🙂
 
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I feel extremely sorry for the poor people from Iraq, they pay the bill of this horrible war in their own country. When I see Iraq on TV I could really cry for all those poor people overthere. They have every right to hate us all.

I often wish that the government of my country (The Netherlands) had been so wise as the French, German, Belgium and the Spanish governments, they refused to join Mr.G.W.Bush.
We have enough troubles in Europe, let's mind our own business.
 

Hyde_is_my_anti-drug

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Amen! It makes me physically sick when I see or hear about Iraq. That's why I've stopped watching TV and reading the Newspaper.
 

Doc

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Elizabeth van Kampen said:
I feel extremely sorry for the poor people from Iraq, they pay the bill of this horrible war in their own country.

Actually we are the ones who have to pay for the bill. Once our troops pull out there is going to be god only knows hundreds of billions of dollars to be spent just to help build up Iraq's economy so they can get out of the rut of being a third world country. We have already spent over $321 billion just to help build up their military, and a grand total of over $500 billion just to help rebuild cities, the governement, the economy, and the suffering of all the vicitims and their families over there. So I would not be so quick to judge that once America pulls out of Iraq that the Iraqi people are on their own. We are going to have to help support them for probably 20-50 more years down the road politically and economically to help their country. Guess who has to pay for all of that? The taxpayers that's who. Now while most Americans would gladly help Iraq, you have to keep in mind that our defecit is the highest this country has seen. Plus we have to help restore Louisana, and all the areas ruined during Hurricane Katrina and Rita. What I am getting to is that all of this activity is exhausting the United States and we are going to end up like Europe if do not watch it.

You also have to keep in mind that Bush did not give Congress all the intelligence that they wanted when deciding to invade Iraq. Bush gets all of the intelligence information before anybody else does, and decides on what Congress should hear and not hear. While they heard that Saddam had WMDs (he has for over 20 years and if you do not think so then you have another thing coming), it is just that the intelligence was some of the worst intelligence ever. The document proving that Iraq had something to do with 9/11 was a forged letter from an Italian. Everything else is on the word of a drunkard and other piss poor intelligence. So should America have gone in there? No. Should we pull out. Absolutely. Should we do it now. No. We have to finish what we started, and that is going to take time. BTW why are we grilling Bush anyway? I think the person we need to be complaining about the most here is Chaney. That jerkoff is the reason why we are in this war in the first place. He has spread more lies, slander, and inaccurate information to get America in this war that he is worse than Bush, but just does not come off of as much.

Personally I think Bush just wanted to finish what his Daddy started, but that is just me. Also whether you agree or not, Saddam did need to be taken out of power. The man was evil and raped, tortured, gased, executed, and god only knows what else to his own people. However, I really do not think he was the next Hitler. If anything I think we should be worrying about the psychos in Africa, Europe, and Asia more than anything. Better yet I think we should be worrying about our own people first. This world's police crap has got to stop. However, I would like to point out that when we do isolate ourselves from the world who comes crying to us when terrorism or something else horrible has run amok? Us that's who. Maybe we should start declining to help everybody in the world, maybe then you would change your attitude about America being an evil country. Look all I am saying is that Congress and the White House started this mess, and it has come down the American people wanting to fix this. Hey we are just as much victims as everybody else is, just not such an extreme scale that's all.

I cannot wait until Bush is out of office. You do release a Democrat will get in, and Congress will have a major overhaul too. It is just going to be funny to watch the Republicans implode before the next general election. The burracracy is just horrible anymore in this country. No wonder people do not vote anymore (although I think if you do not vote on the people who should be in office then you are an idiot for thinking that not voting is going to make a world of difference). Campaign ads are ruthless anymore, and politicians will do anything for money. You know maybe things should more like Missouri where the people elect the politician based on merit and not by who has the best political stance. Maybe then we might get something done in this country. *sigh* Bottom line is the whole issue is a giant mess, and Bush going to other countries looking for support when everybody in his own country hates him isn't helping much. (He has spent less time at the White House than any other president in our history. Not only that, but you think a 36% approval rating might suggesting something, especially for Congress with theirs in the mid to low 20's.) He shouldn't have told off the UN, the EU, or NATO for doing what he wanted to do. I think that is reason enough to show that we will never elect another president from Texas for another 250 years. People just need to take action in this country, otherwise nothing will ever get done.

Doc 🙂
 

Pachipro

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Akakubisan said:
Unfortunately the U.S. is a democracy and if you are a U.S. citizen BUSH is your president.
Contrary to what most people think the US is NOT a democracy. It is a Representative Republic as the forefathers wanted. A goverment by the people for the people. Unfortunately most people don't realize that today. In the Pledge of Alligence is the line "And to the Republic for which it stands..." How many times have you heard a politician refer to the US as a Republic? Almost never. And it is scary.

On the other hand a democracy is just mob rule. Is that what we are exporting to other countries? Mob rule?
 

Doc

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And do not forget the first lines of the United States of America's Consitiution.

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this CONSTITUTION for the United States of America."

What does that tell you? That we the American people are the governement, and elect people by the people to help ensure to keep the governement (the American people) in order and running. Yet instead we have let our power as the governement go to the elected officials instead and have become their slave, rather than them doing what we say. Isn't it ironic? In crude terms I want the government to be my ***** like it was, not the other way around. The buracracy has got to stop, or at least be lessened. Anyway kudos to you Pachipro for pointing out that we are indeed a REPRESENTATIVE REPUBLIC not a democracy, as you pointed out mob rule never works (like with Rome). There is to the reason why we are a republic, but I think that civics lesson if for another time. :)

Doc 🙂
 
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Ma Cherie

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Here's another problem, Bush has also kept the white house isolated. My Political Science professor has pointed out that he doesn't read newspapers, books, and it doesnt' seem like he seeks outside sources on pretty much everything (that would explain why he ignored those economists on the issue of tax cuts :kaioken: ). It also seems that he's only oppointing people that would appeal to his conservative base. So, there goes the diversity.:eek: And he appoints people he knows, (i.e. the head of FEMA, Harriet Miers, etc.). To me, those people are nothing but cronies. Yeah, I know this is a bit off topic:sorry:
 

Doc

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Unlike most administrations, it is said that this administration knows the answer to everything before it is even asked. Hell they don't even have any meetings to discuss issues! You see the Bush administration has had an agenda since day one, and they have been following through this agenda despite national and international protest. I think you have to keep in mind that Bush really is not pulling all the strings here. It is a few higher ups in the administration running the show. We need to start focusing our attention on the administration as a whole rather than just the President. I think only then will you get to bottom of all of this.

Doc 🙂
 

MajideSaiaku

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China, Japan, and America are so economically involved and heavily invested in each other that a war with each other would see the economic ruin of all 3 countries.
Its no secret that economics and trade are much more desirable in this day and age then petty old-school land-grabs.

Taiwan is part of china, say what you will, most taiwanese are chinese, many of them are of mainland origin, infact, all if your willing to allow them to trace as far back as the first chinese settlers.
If you pay attention to chinese history its no suprise the mainland china holds a firm claim over taiwan, in effect it could be argued china and taiwan are still in a state of civil war, ever since the communists and nationalists first started fighting.

In regards to japan invading okinawa, if i remember correctly, okinawa is part of japan.
It was part of japan lnog before the war and continues to be so now, bar the breif period of american administration.

In short, american bases, though probably unwanted by a number of japanese, are in japan for a reason or two, and are better off there then gone, likewise, china isnt on the verge of conquering the world, pay less attention to taiwan propaganda Tv or something and and spend more on you know, reality.
 

Mike Cash

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nurizeko said:
In short, american bases, though probably unwanted by a number of japanese, are in japan for a reason or two

Let's strive for a little consistency. Didn't I just read in another thread your blanket statement that the Japanese all want the bases gone, yet the Japanese government ignores the wishes of the entire voting nation?
 
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