Why there are so many rape event in japan ?
- Thread starter jim83
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Tim33
先輩
- 10 Mar 2005
- 249
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I think he was just trying to compare it to another Asian country to show a comparison that actually Japan is not so bad, or not as bad as some other countries when it comes to rape.
This thread was originally started with no facts or figures, just random accusations thrown around by someone that just held a grudge towards Japan. The facts and figures tell a differnt story and that such accusations without real proof will not be taken seriously.
This thread was originally started with no facts or figures, just random accusations thrown around by someone that just held a grudge towards Japan. The facts and figures tell a differnt story and that such accusations without real proof will not be taken seriously.
true but
That may be true but you have to realize there are more people in China than in japan. So they have more anything. Also as you mentioned the justice stystem in japan isnt that great .. to many things to unreported .. like train gropings because its not like some little girl can keep a guy there while waiting for the cops to come =)
bossel said:
That may be true but you have to realize there are more people in China than in japan. So they have more anything. Also as you mentioned the justice stystem in japan isnt that great .. to many things to unreported .. like train gropings because its not like some little girl can keep a guy there while waiting for the cops to come =)
bossel
後輩
- 28 Sep 2003
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Sorry, but that argument doesn't work for representative statistics.Apri1 said:
I don't remember why exactly I chose China as a counter-example, perhaps because I got the impression that Jim83 is Chinese. Or maybe because I'm generally interested in China, or maybe because I just at that time saw something in the news about it. Sorry, but my memory is not the best.
That's more a problem of society than of the justice system. You have the same effects in other countries. This issue is always in the discussion eg. in Germany.
Again, this is not a particular Japanese issue. Would go for little girls all over the world. But I think, for groping it would be a bit exaggerated to call the police, it's probably enough to slap the guy in the face or kick in his balls. (depends on the case though).
Why misleading? You think, China doesn't have that problem?Tonysoong said:
lexico
後輩
- 22 Dec 2004
- 2,584
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How bad were the IJA raping incindents in China ?
Although the originator only noted in passing, it appears that one major concern for Jim83 when he raised the question was;
1) Russo-Japanese War 1904-1905 Dalian, Lushun, Mukden
2) Manchu Invasion 1931-1932 Manchuria
3) Sino-Japanese War 1937-1945 China.
Or could it be argued that due to IJA's well know reliance on systematic prostitution houses filled with girls and women harvested from mainland China, Korea, Taiwan, the Philippines, and other occupied regions, the rape incidents of IJA was less that world average ? It would be only natural to expect less rapes compared to those invading forces not employing institutional prostitution, wouldn't it ?
But if the libidinal drive, or aggressive psychology, involved in sexual assautls had only little/partial correlation to simple sexual drive, but had more to do with culture, values, or some personality trait (this seems to be what the originator was guessing), could it be that due to the organized prostitution, there were more rapes committed by IJA by loosening the inhibition ? What evidence exists to support one or the other ?
As can be seen in mind control Imerial Japan's gov't/IJA High Command was excercising over officers and privates such as evidenced in the 100-man-killing drive, could there have been similar competitions among IJA personnel to engage in raping competitions, either officially encouraged, endorsed, or motivated by analogy to the killing competitions ? It is well established that a fair portion of rape victims involving IJA were murdered to evade the consequences. Officially rapists in IJA were subject to discipline, yet it is also known that most, although caught after the act, went unpunished, or hushed over by IJA.
If my apporach is misguided, then what alternative method could best analyze and help understand IJA's raping of Chinese civilians ?
Although the originator only noted in passing, it appears that one major concern for Jim83 when he raised the question was;
Needless to say, the topic, involing international law, human rights, and women's rights, must have been dealth with elsewhere, and it is also understood that war areas often see many sexual assaualts such as rape. But does anyone know how severe the rapes were involving Imperial Japanese Army of civilians in China ? Is there a comparison of IJA statistics to world statistics or those in other wars not involving IJA ? I think this was one major phenomenon that Jim83 was trying to understand. The time frame and place would include the following.Jim83 said:
1) Russo-Japanese War 1904-1905 Dalian, Lushun, Mukden
2) Manchu Invasion 1931-1932 Manchuria
3) Sino-Japanese War 1937-1945 China.
Or could it be argued that due to IJA's well know reliance on systematic prostitution houses filled with girls and women harvested from mainland China, Korea, Taiwan, the Philippines, and other occupied regions, the rape incidents of IJA was less that world average ? It would be only natural to expect less rapes compared to those invading forces not employing institutional prostitution, wouldn't it ?
But if the libidinal drive, or aggressive psychology, involved in sexual assautls had only little/partial correlation to simple sexual drive, but had more to do with culture, values, or some personality trait (this seems to be what the originator was guessing), could it be that due to the organized prostitution, there were more rapes committed by IJA by loosening the inhibition ? What evidence exists to support one or the other ?
As can be seen in mind control Imerial Japan's gov't/IJA High Command was excercising over officers and privates such as evidenced in the 100-man-killing drive, could there have been similar competitions among IJA personnel to engage in raping competitions, either officially encouraged, endorsed, or motivated by analogy to the killing competitions ? It is well established that a fair portion of rape victims involving IJA were murdered to evade the consequences. Officially rapists in IJA were subject to discipline, yet it is also known that most, although caught after the act, went unpunished, or hushed over by IJA.
If my apporach is misguided, then what alternative method could best analyze and help understand IJA's raping of Chinese civilians ?
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bossel said:
Nobody here expects you to explain why you chose China, nor do you need to, Bossel. But since you have mentioned your possible reasons for choosing China for comparison, please allow me to speculate about another possible reason --- the sense you have developed so acute as to have Japan counter China in whatever realm. Japan doesn't need to counter China just as people like you don't need to force Japan to. Any way, i don't see how such statistics about China could shed any light on the issue about Japan Jim83 is calling into our attention.
As for the statistics about China, i'd like to advise you against taking them seriously. .CCP has always been intending to conceal or exaggerate things in China. Nobody knows how many dissidents are in detention in China. We Chinese tend to be prudent in citing such official statistics. :?
Tim33
先輩
- 10 Mar 2005
- 249
- 5
Apri1 said:
I think this was stated before your post as well, if you read all that he said you would notice the per 100,000 people statement. So the population number has nothing to do with it.
Tonysoong said:
I think the reason for picking china over other countries was fair, espechially if Jim was indeed chinese. Chinese people tend to have a grudge against Japan and this thread started with no facts and was merely a Japanese flame thread. Light was cast upon the issue to show that Jim was one of these grudge people.
Yes Tonysoong i agree that Japan does not need to counter China, but that goes both ways.
Tim33 said:
Jim just raised a question expressing one of his concerns, what's wrong of him? and what does it have to do with his nationality? What is there forcing us to speculate that Jim must be a Chinese who grudges Japan? Oh, too much of it!
I am a Chinese and have always been living in China, I signed into Japan Forum for two reasons: 1)I take an interest in Japan and its people, I want to communicate with Japanese people so as to better understand the Country and its people; 2)to check out what's behind the information and opinion gaps between Japan and its Asian neighbors regarding WW2. And I don't see how either of these two intentions of mine here indicates my having a grudge against Japan. Generalizations like "Chinese people tend to have a grudge against Japan...." are harmful and ungrounded. If you still insist on this, can i accordingly assume:"Japanese people tend to have a grudge against Chinese...."?
It goes both ways---either mutual trust or distrust goes both ways.
Tim33
先輩
- 10 Mar 2005
- 249
- 5
Jim did not just raise a question about Japan, it was a hit against Japan, just another flame.
Have you not read any of his other posts?
Why do you think he is banned?
japan and china gene advantage
Does okinawa belong to china before ?
japanese afaid of the truth of ww2
These were hardly friendly discussion posts.
I have taken my view of the chinese holding grudges of Japan from past posts by many Chinese people and their behavior towards them, it was not a conclusion i randomly pulled from the air.
I am not saying this of you and i am not sterotyping all chinese people, it is a two way thing and Japan has just as bigger part in this. All im saying is if you are gonna throw insults around have the facts.
Also i took Jim to be Chinese because people were saying he was.
He certainly is not originally from America which is stated in his profile, that and his English ability gives the impression that he is from an Asian country. Ofcourse he could be korean etc also.
Have you not read any of his other posts?
Why do you think he is banned?
japan and china gene advantage
Does okinawa belong to china before ?
japanese afaid of the truth of ww2
These were hardly friendly discussion posts.
I have taken my view of the chinese holding grudges of Japan from past posts by many Chinese people and their behavior towards them, it was not a conclusion i randomly pulled from the air.
I am not saying this of you and i am not sterotyping all chinese people, it is a two way thing and Japan has just as bigger part in this. All im saying is if you are gonna throw insults around have the facts.
Also i took Jim to be Chinese because people were saying he was.
He certainly is not originally from America which is stated in his profile, that and his English ability gives the impression that he is from an Asian country. Ofcourse he could be korean etc also.
If Jim was Chinese,and if he did have any grudge with Japanese people, then we need to sit down and try to understand what's behind the grudge, (which must be mutual ---- if viewed from Jim's stance)
Words to Jim, too: no scientific study has so far proven any connection between cruelty and genes, either on personal basis or on national basis, I am afraid. In that case, genetic engiheering would need to assume a more meaningful task.
Any way, Jim may have raised a good question on this present occasion, though raping is a universal problem with humanity, not just Japan-specific. And probing
into Japan's domestic problems may shed light on similar problems in China as well.
Like Lexico once said on this forum, "Reason needs to prevail" for us to go on if we can still afford the minimum reason to hope to go on, especially when we have so many interpersonal, international or interwhatsoever gaps and problems.
Words to Jim, too: no scientific study has so far proven any connection between cruelty and genes, either on personal basis or on national basis, I am afraid. In that case, genetic engiheering would need to assume a more meaningful task.
Any way, Jim may have raised a good question on this present occasion, though raping is a universal problem with humanity, not just Japan-specific. And probing
into Japan's domestic problems may shed light on similar problems in China as well.
Like Lexico once said on this forum, "Reason needs to prevail" for us to go on if we can still afford the minimum reason to hope to go on, especially when we have so many interpersonal, international or interwhatsoever gaps and problems.
Tim33
先輩
- 10 Mar 2005
- 249
- 5
Tonysoong said:
From what i saw he was not willing to look at it in any other way, and so i do not see why he needs to be understood. Again it has to be a two way thing or he should really have no time given to him.
Tonysoong said:
If it was not Japanese specific like it was
I agree that everyone must have their reasons, however if there not willing to change then i will spend no time discussing with them.
kirei_na_me
Where I'm Supposed to Be
- 31 Jan 2003
- 5,051
- 166
Tim33 said:
Exactly.
I would hardly call anything he posed(note the past tense) as "good".
kirei_na_me
Where I'm Supposed to Be
- 31 Jan 2003
- 5,051
- 166
Look, Tony, no one is going to get anywhere spitting out attacks. If one cannot handle themselves in a calm manner, they will not be understood. They will just appear to be mentally unstable. Until they humble themselves, nothing can ever be accomplished. Besides, the reason he is mad is probably the same reason you and several others are mad. Mad over something that was done years and years ago between countries, but you act like it was done to you, personally.
Tim33
先輩
- 10 Mar 2005
- 249
- 5
Tonysoong said:
I would have been willing, if he himself was willing.
Am i supposed to put up with him and his difference in opinion if he is not willing to do the same with mine?
I am generally an easy going guy and am willing to take the time in seeing other peoples opinions if they are willing to do the same. Its a two way thing that he was unwilling to participate in.
He expressed his opinion without any facts to back up his claims. He also done it in a rude and agressive, closed mind way. People like that are unwilling to discuss and debate issues that this forum raises and requires and therefore he was unfit to post.
Tim33 said:
People are not only different in opinion, but also in personality, orientation.. etc. What we can do here on this forum is perhaps not desciplineing others or changing others' opinions. In fact, we can only try to express ourselves and listen to others. It's harmful to blame on personal basis especially when opinions differ
Duo
As the Rush Comes
- 25 Apr 2003
- 1,496
- 68
The problem is that this is the Japan reference forum, a place for people who are interested or affiliated with Japan to come and exchange ideas, experience and what not. Now coming here and tryin to convince japano-philes that japan is an evil place because they did what not 100 yrs ago will not get you anywhere and you will be more frustrated than ever because no one will see it your way..... and then things will start to get personal and what not....... and you will eventually get banned..... but whatever, i'm not a moderator so my word has little if any value..... so keep it up if you wish
kirei_na_me
Where I'm Supposed to Be
- 31 Jan 2003
- 5,051
- 166
I believe we have an idea of why he did what he did. It is just against the rules of this forum. Period. This isn't the "I hate Japan, therefore, I will spread insults around" forum. We don't have to tolerate that behavior, no matter if we understand where it's coming from or not.
kirei_na_me said:
Yes, you don't have to, nobody is told that he/she nters this forum to lolerate. so the question here may not be whether you have to, but whether you are willing to.
See, we are talking about tolerating someone who refuses to forget about his or his fathers being victimized by us Funny. Who indeed should be in the position to expect tolerance? :? When demand of tolerance comes from both parties, it could be a dangerous situation where insincerity or bias or something is affecting at least one party, blurring and distorting their morality.
mad pierrot
I jump to conclusions
- 22 Nov 2003
- 1,453
- 85
Great, tolerance is good. But this being a plain old forum, we don't tolerate trolling, spam, and that kind of BS. Having proved this original topic to be worthless, and subsequently drifting off more, I think it's time to close this thread.
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