Why do Muslim women wear veils?

[RolandtheHeadless]

There are men who beat their women here, and women who put up with it far longer than they should. But it is against the law. There is no such thing as a legal beating.

Think about it. Even a "light" beating (and I'm not sure how you define that) is a threat and physical intimidation of a stronger person against a weaker one. Of course if a woman doesn't listen after a "light" beating, she is well aware the beating will be more severe next time.

Women aren't children, who may need some physical restraint. They're not property either.

 

[Hezam]

Of course if a woman doesn't listen after a "light" beating, she is well aware the beating will be more severe next time.

As in the video,if she didn't response then the man should not sleep with her for a while and no more beating.

few days ago i heard in the news about a man in the US who killed his wife cuz she didn't make Eggs in the breakfast and he killed his childern and two of his neighbors and then he killed himself !

Also,there were alot of mad men beating their women here because they are sick,and when you told them it's against Islam and humanity they start a big madness.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

"As in the video,if she didn't response then the man should not sleep with her for a while and no more beating."

Hmmm. Are you punishing the man or the woman here? Oh, I see -- multiple wives! lol

A beating is very humiliating, even if it causes little physical damage. It destroys a woman's self-esteem and dignity. Why would any guy want to do that to a woman he claims to love?

 

[Mycernius]

In the UK and the US, and most of Europe, Spousal beating is illegal, same as spousal rape. These are fully legal in some islamic countries, and I know for a fact that spousal rape is legal in Saudi Arabia. Now tell me which countries laws respect womens right better?
My mother and father have somehow lived to gether for 44 years without hitting each other and I know full well if my father ever did raise his hand to my mother she would have left him. That goes for most married couples I know.

Islam is at least making a law to impose on the human spectrum if he wants to beat his wife here an elegant way to empty his anger

You know I feel sorry for you that you actually think that it is right for your husband to beat you if you disobey him because islam tells you it is right. Tell me, if your husband disobeys you can you beat him?

few days ago i heard in the news about a man in the US who killed his wife cuz she didn't make Eggs in the breakfast and he killed his childern and two of his neighbors and then he killed himself !

And of course it never happens in islamic families does it?
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/04/a...s-wife-to-death-for-being-too-australian.html
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/01/uae-pakistani-man-beats-wife-to-death-for-disobedience.html

 

[red flower]

This conversation is funny
look at all these serious cases over what ??
It is not even a real hit

Islam doesn't say hit your wife, never say that, he said that if there is a scuffle hand (as it happen in everyhouse) do not overreact and harm her, and of course there has to be a good reason for that because ALLAH does not like injustice
and with all that, what happen here never compared to what happen in some non muslim countries

 

[red flower]

As i wrote before, you have no right to concentrate on one rule or two in any religion , you have to know the thing from all side not just one side, otherwise this conversation will have no meaning because i would be like one who explain a lesson in english to Russian people

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

"It is not even a real hit"

I grew up the eldest of four sons, and when I told my parents those words (after hitting a younger brother), I got in trouble anyway.

In 35 years, I've raised my voice to my wife, but never my hand. However, my wife is Japanese, so even a raised voice is traumatic to her. So I've learned not even to raise my voice.

Two adults living together should negotiate and compromise. When one person threatens physical violence, there is no real solution. The threatened person may pretend to agree, but really has not.

 

[red flower]

Two adults living together should negotiate and compromise. When one person threatens physical violence, there is no real solution. The threatened person may pretend to agree, but really has not.

We don't see it as a physical threaten
the problem is , we are from different culture, and some of you do not read more about our culture, in your culture it is ok the 18 years old girl living alone and sleep with many of her friends in the name of boyfriend , but in our culture we see it as an immoral the same as a couple living together before marriage, but in our culture it Is an immoral and unethical and an expression of bad literature
can you see that
we are from different culture
you grow up believe it is normal things to do, but i can't imagine doing this

i hope everyone read these pages , i hope he can read the Biography of the Prophet Mohammad, he or she will see that this person never hit a woman or a man, i hope you can read more about the women's rights in Islam, i am sure he or she will be surprised that Islam gave women rights that had not given it any other religion

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

Yes, you're right about cultural differences.

My culture has changed rapidly. In my parents' time, it was considered immoral and scandalous for an unmarried couple to live together.

 

[red flower]

This is my final reply in this article

Commenting on this issue, Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi , former President of the Islamic Society of North America, states:

"According to the Qur'an the relationship between the husband and wife should be based on mutual love and kindness. Allah says: "And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquility with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs for those who reflect." (Ar-Rum: 21)

The Qur'an urges husbands to treat their wives with kindness. [In the event of a family dispute, the Qur'an exhorts the husband to treat his wife kindly and not to overlook her positive aspects]. Allah Almighty says: ﾂ"Live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good.ﾂ" (An-Nisa': 19)

It is important that a wife recognizes the authority of her husband in the house. He is the head of the household, and she is supposed to listen to him. But the husband should also use his authority with respect and kindness towards his wife. If there arises any disagreement or dispute among them, then it should be resolved in a peaceful manner. Spouses should seek the counsel of their elders and other respectable family members and friends to batch up the rift and solve the differences.

However, in some cases a husband may use some light disciplinary action in order to correct the moral infraction of his wife, but this is only applicable in extreme cases and it should be resorted to if one is sure it would improve the situation. However, if there is a fear that it might worsen the relationship or may wreak havoc on him or the family, then he should avoid it completely.

The Qur'an is very clear on this issue. Almighty Allah says: "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more strength than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient and guard in the husband's absence what Allah would have them to guard. As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance); for Allah is most High and Great (above you all). If you fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family and the other from hers. If they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation; for Allah has full knowledge and is acquainted with all things." (An-Nisa': 34-35)

It is important to read the section fully. One should not take part of the verse and use it to justify one's own misconduct. This verse neither permits violence nor condones it. It guides us to ways to handle delicate family situation with care and wisdom. The word "beating" is used in the verse, but it does not mean "physical abuse". The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) explained it "dharban ghayra mubarrih " which means "a light tap that leaves no mark". He further said that face must be avoided. Some other scholars are of the view that it is no more than a light touch by siwak , or toothbrush.

Generally, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) used to discourage his followers from taking even this measure. He never hit any female, and he used to say that the best of men are those who do not hit their wives. In one hadith he expressed his extreme repulsion from this behavior and said, "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?ﾂ" (Al-Bukhari, English Translation, vol. 8, Hadith 68, pp. 42-43)

It is also important to note that even this "light strike" mentioned in the verse is not to be used to correct some minor problem, but it is permissible to resort to only in a situation of some serious moral misconduct when admonishing the wife fails, and avoiding from sleeping with her would not help. If this disciplinary action can correct a situation and save the marriage, then one should use it."

Dr. Jamal Badawi , professor at Saint Mary's University in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada, and a cross-appointed faculty member in the Departments of Religious Studies and Management, adds:

"If the problem relates to the wife's behavior, the husband may exhort her and appeal for reason. In most cases, this measure is likely to be sufficient. In cases where the problem persists, the husband may express his displeasure in another peaceful manner, by sleeping in a separate bed from hers. There are cases, however, in which a wife persists in bad habits and showing contempt of her husband and disregard for her marital obligations. Instead of divorce, the husband may resort to another measure that may save the marriage, at least in some cases. Such a measure is more accurately described as a gentle tap on the body, but never on the face, making it more of a symbolic measure than a punitive one.

Even here, that maximum measure is limited by the following:

a. It must be seen as a rare exception to the repeated exhortation of mutual respect, kindness and good treatment. Based on the Qur'an and Hadith, this measure may be used in the cases of lewdness on the part of the wife or extreme refraction and rejection of the husband's reasonable requests on a consistent basis (nushuz ). Even then, other measures, such as exhortation, should be tried first.

b. As defined by Hadith, it is not permissible to strike anyone's face, cause any bodily harm or even be harsh. What the Hadith qualifies as "dharban ghayra mubarrih ", or light striking, was interpreted by early jurists as a (symbolic) use of siwak ! They further qualified permissible "striking" as that which leaves no mark on the body. It is interesting that this latter fourteen-centuries-old qualifier is the criterion used in contemporary American law to separate a light and harmless tap or strike from "abuse" in the legal sense. This makes it clear that even this extreme, last resort, and "lesser of the two evils" measure that may save a marriage does not meet the definitions of "physical abuse," "family violence, " or "wife battering" in the 20th century law in liberal democracies, where such extremes are so commonplace that they are seen as national concerns.

c. The permissibility of such symbolic expression of the seriousness of continued refraction does not imply its desirability. In several hadiths, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) discouraged this measure. Here are some of his sayings in this regard:

"Do not beat the female servants of Allah" ;

"Some (women) visited my family complaining about their husbands (beating them). These (husbands) are not the best of you."

In another hadith the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is reported to have said: ﾂ"How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then he may embrace (sleep with) her?ﾂ"

d. True following of the Sunnah is to follow the example of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) who never resorted to that measure, regardless of the circumstances.

e. Islamic teachings are universal in nature. They respond to the needs and circumstances of diverse times, cultures and circumstances. Some measures may work in some cases and cultures or with certain persons but may not be effective in others. By definition, a "permissible" act is neither required, encouraged or forbidden. In fact it may be to spell out the extent of permissibility, such as in the issue at hand, rather than leaving it unrestricted or unqualified, or ignoring it all together. In the absence of strict qualifiers, persons may interpret the matter in their own way, which can lead to excesses and real abuse.

f. Any excess, cruelty, family violence, or abuse committed by any "Muslim" can never be traced, honestly, to any revelatory text (Qur'an or Hadith). Such excesses and violations are to be blamed on the person(s) himself, as it shows that they are paying lip service to Islamic teachings and injunctions and failing to follow the true Sunnah of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him)."

 

[Mycernius]

"Allah says" - In other words we will take a unproveable magic mans word to do what we wnat to our wives and children. Muhammad may have never hit his wives (shhesh). Nine years olds have a tendency to bruise easily, but he did far worse things, but this is not the thread to go into such things.

However, in some cases a husband may use some light disciplinary action in order to correct the moral infraction of his wife,

What exactly is a moral infraction, and can the wife beat her husband if he makes one? Methinks it is one law for the the man and one law for the woman in islamic society. Sexual equality seems to have passed certain islamic countries by.

 

[Emoni]

I propose to every martial arts group teach Muslim women of every country how to defend themselves in a brutal manner. Ahh, what a site, to see some loser wife beater raise his hand... only to have it suddenly twisted, be thrown to the grown and be missing a ball...

Yup, seems realistic enough.

 

[Hezam]

No wonder most people who attack every Islamic sharia are westerners,Yeah they think they are perfect !
While you guys trying to look perfect let me ask you "Why most new muslims are women ?"

 

[Emoni]

No wonder most people who attack every Islamic sharia are westerners,Yeah they think they are perfect !

I don't think westerners are perfect, I think I AM perfect. There is a difference

But yes, I personally believe I am a better person than someone who beats their wife/women. I look down on that sort of person as an emotionally weak and immature individual, irregardless of what the person's religion is, only by their actions do I base my opinion.

 

[Mycernius]

No wonder most people who attack every Islamic sharia are westerners,Yeah they think they are perfect !
While you guys trying to look perfect let me ask you "Why most new muslims are women ?"

We are not perfect, but running a country under the laws dating from the 7th century in the 21st needs looking at. In the west women have equal rights and can do virtually any job a man can do. In the west we have religious freedom and do not demand money from people who are not of that countries religion. We do not multilate offenders, most don't even excute people. For crying out loud the death sentence is still in force in Saudi Arabia for witchcraft! Hello, this is the 21st century. Ever wondered why the strictest muslim countries that enforce Sharia aren't leading the world in medicine, science and technology? 20% of the world population is islamic, yet islamic countries only make up 1% of scientific papers. From the Royal Societies Atlas of Islamic-World Science and Innovation recealed that between 17 islamic countries scientists produced 13 444 scientic papers in 2005. Harvard university, by itself, produced 15 455.
The article is from this site:Home – Physics World and the article is here:
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/print/42134. You will have to sign up to view the entire piece.

In the 9th century islamic society was forward thinking and progressive. In the 21st it is static and stuck in its own "dark ages".

Could you back up your claim on most new muslims are women please. You should know by now you cannot make such a claim without evidence.

 

[Emoni]

"Why most new muslims are women ?"

Well, here is my unfounded response to your unfounded claim!

The reason why there are many women joining Islam is for the guys, because they say, "I'm cut and I'm 9 inches baby" and then they join, but simply find out they were only talking about their beards... and circumcision.

 

[Hezam]

We are not perfect, but running a country under the laws dating from the 7th century in the 21st needs looking at. In the west women have equal rights and can do virtually any job a man can do. In the west we have religious freedom and do not demand money from people who are not of that countries religion. We do not multilate offenders, most don't even excute people. For crying out loud the death sentence is still in force in Saudi Arabia for witchcraft! Hello, this is the 21st century. Ever wondered why the strictest muslim countries that enforce Sharia aren't leading the world in medicine, science and technology? 20% of the world population is islamic, yet islamic countries only make up 1% of scientific papers. From the Royal Societies Atlas of Islamic-World Science and Innovation recealed that between 17 islamic countries scientists produced 13 444 scientic papers in 2005. Harvard university, by itself, produced 15 455.
The article is from this site:Home – Physics World and the article is here:
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/print/42134. You will have to sign up to view the entire piece.
In the 9th century islamic society was forward thinking and progressive. In the 21st it is static and stuck in its own "dark ages".
Could you back up your claim on most new muslims are women please. You should know by now you cannot make such a claim without evidence.

The very painful question in your reply is when you ask why Islamic countries are not scientifically advanced,Why don't you think for a second about the western agenda to keep Islamic countries poor and underdeveloped.
See what is happening in Egypt,and what happend to Iraq,Also they prevented Indonesia from building big vactories like Airplane Factories,Cars factories...etc.
I don't blame you for not knowing that but for not trying to know it.
Your question killed me.
About Saudi Arabia,i want you to know that they focus on Sharia and they forgot the other part of Islam witch is work,Saudi Arabia is supposed to be like Japan or US but as i said,the western system would not let them.
Another point witch most of you don't know even if i repeat it over and over and over,the Arab-Islamic system are stricted dictators who we never seen like them before.
even worse than hitler.

That's why we hate the word "Democracy" because those dictators use it when they oppress us,In the name of democracy they jail who has a beard,and who wear hijab,and who call for the real democracy like in the UK.

Now in Turkey,there is a real democracy that we all want and need,we wish and hope and pray to have a real democracy that fits our culture ( notice i said culture ).
Rajab Tayyep Erdogan Dismantle the Arab system and they appeared naked in front of Arab people.

Maybe you don't understand what i said but all what i hope from you is to try to understand the situation here,try another sources,not western sources,ask people from the Arab-Islamic countries,explore the systems in here...etc.

The veil is a cultural symbol rather than Islamic.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

"Now in Turkey,there is a real democracy that we all want and need,we wish and hope and pray to have a real democracy that fits our culture ( notice i said culture )."

That's the kind of thinking that leads to banning minarets, mosques, and veils in the West.

 

[Hezam]

"Now in Turkey,there is a real democracy that we all want and need,we wish and hope and pray to have a real democracy that fits our culture ( notice i said culture )."

That's the kind of thinking that leads to banning minarets, mosques, and veils in the West.

Sorry but i'm confused,why would they ban veils,minaretsm,mosques ?
what i mean by "democracy fits our culture" is in here not in europe neither US.
Islam is the first democracy but the system use it to keep power on people even if they use it in the wrong way.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

Should our democracy here in the US fit our culture? Most of our culture is Christianity-based.

If you want a democracy that fits your culture, would that include Sharia law? Would Bibles continue to be banned? Churches? Could women walk around without veils in your vision of democracy?

But perhaps I'm talking about liberty, not, strictly speaking, democracy. My own vision of democracy includes liberty: the right to worship, dress, and speak as you choose.

 

[Hezam]

A real democracy is that poeple choose their way to live,forcing people to follow specific way is not democracy,it's not different than the other systems like in Russia/china/Saudi Arabia.
We choose our way so let it go !

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

When you say "we choose our way," who are the "we"?

In a democracy, "we" usually means a simple majority. But a majority can do a lot of things to impinge on individual rights; for instance, by banning mosques, minarets, veils, "hate" speech, guns, or a million other things.

I believe that a real democracy recognizes certain zones of individual rights -- which can't be taken away by simple majority vote.

 

[Emoni]

When you say "we choose our way," who are the "we"?

In a democracy, "we" usually means a simple majority. But a majority can do a lot of things to impinge on individual rights; for instance, by banning mosques, minarets, veils, "hate" speech, guns, or a million other things.

I believe that a real democracy recognizes certain zones of individual rights -- which can't be taken away by simple majority vote.

This is a VERY important distinction that I'm glad you mentioned. It's important to be careful not to juxtapose the majority against the minority vote, as it will always win in regards to individual rights issues.

 

[Mycernius]

The very painful question in your reply is when you ask why Islamic countries are not scientifically advanced,Why don't you think for a second about the western agenda to keep Islamic countries poor and underdeveloped.

There is no western agenda to keep islamic countries poor. Saudi Arabia is one of the richest in the world because of its oil revenues. Don't blame the west because the Saudi Government doesn't want to spend it on education and improving the country for the good of the people. Another rich islamic country is Brunei, again because of oil revenue and good finacial sense. Yet there the people don't pay taxes and they have a high standard of living, depite being an absolute monarchy. The difference is that the Sultan of Brunei actually wants to improve the lot of his people, not on his immediate family

See what is happening in Egypt,and what happend to Iraq

Egypt had a good standard of living, then the fundies came in and are trying their best to drag it back to the dark ages. As for Iraq, well that was a very stable and rich country under Saddam. Thanks for ruinning it GW. Mind you I didn't see Iran, Kuwait, Saudi, or other islamic countries complaining when the war started. fact is they wanted Saddam removed, just as much as the US. It bloody annoyed me because Saddam was quite the secularist. Now it has turned into another religious dominated state.

Also they prevented Indonesia from building big vactories like Airplane Factories,Cars factories...etc.

Can I have any articles about that please? Building in Asia is a big thing for large companies and I find it unusual for them to do that unless it is a question of cost or security.

About Saudi Arabia,i want you to know that they focus on Sharia and they forgot the other part of Islam witch is work,Saudi Arabia is supposed to be like Japan or US but as i said,the western system would not let them.

It would, but the system is a selfish government, or rather royal family. Saudis problems are created by Saudi Arabia. They just can't admit it and shift the blame for their own short comings onto the west. We're an easy target.

Another point witch most of you don't know even if i repeat it over and over and over,the Arab-Islamic system are stricted dictators who we never seen like them before.
even worse than hitler.
That's why we hate the word "Democracy" because those dictators use it when they oppress us,In the name of democracy they jail who has a beard,and who wear hijab,and who call for the real democracy like in the UK.

As I said, an oppressive, corrupt, selfish government. That is why they censor and limit your media and what you can see. Don't want the people to know what it is really like in the erst of the world.

Now in Turkey,there is a real democracy that we all want and need,we wish and hope and pray to have a real democracy that fits our culture ( notice i said culture ).

Turkey is having its own problems at the moment. There is a fear that the current president wants it to be more "islamic". A lot of Turks, especially in the cities don't weant that.

Maybe you don't understand what i said but all what i hope from you is to try to understand the situation here,try another sources,not western sources,ask people from the Arab-Islamic countries,explore the systems in here...etc.

Also remember that I have access to more media than you. I'm not as censored. Not your fault, but your corrupt control freaks that run Saudi.

 

[Emoni]

Often people form opinions based off personal direct life experiences. That said.... I gotta ask, and I wonder if this has ever even been asked before; Hezam, have you ever BEEN to any countries like England, the USA, or other "Western" countries for an extended period or even a few weeks to visit? Heck, I might even count Japan as one.

I'll flatly admit I've never been to any Middle Eastern countries. I don't mean that in a bad way, only to point out I don't have any direct experience within the countries outside of knowing friends from the Middle East.