Who else can't stand cuteness?
- Thread starter Mandylion
- Start date
well, very short... when i was younger, ppl used to say I was tall... but now... *cry cry*
Lina Inverse
後輩
- 29 Apr 2004
- 1,700
- 49
Well said! Same here. Some cute is just quite nice, and as long as it doesn't become totally ridiculous or exaggerated, it's ok with meMaciamo said:
Dan B
"Follow your bliss."
- 1 Jun 2004
- 87
- 4
Mandylion,
First, I must award you many kudos for the excellent Zulu Dawn allusions and metaphors you've seamlessly woven through this thread (and in the poll). Well done!
I don't remember the word "kawaii" from the late 1970s when I was a little boy in Tokyo. But, then again, I was wrapped up in my own little pre-teen gaijin world. It could be that the many girls and young women who petted (yes, "petted") my little brother's head on the trains uttered the word repeatedly. (At the time he had very blond hair. My hair was dark brown. Dammit.)
But I was so envious of the attention he was receiving that I likely blocked it out. He absolutely hated it, of course, but he was only about 8 at the time and didn't yet share or comprehend my burgeoning preoccupation with females. In retrospect, I certainly agree that he was justified in having been perturbed by the unsolicited and unauthorized manipulation of his remarkable golden noggin.
Upon returning to Japan in December of 2003, I found the Kawaii-factor largely entertaining but also a little...disquieting. On the one hand, I accepted it academically as an interesting fact about the culture of young Japanese women. On the other hand, it sometimes seemed rather extreme. But, I was a visitor, reticent to pass judgment. And so I remain. (I haven't yet voted in the poll--I need another trip to Japan first!)
If I may prattle on for quite a bit longer, I'll share with you my first known introduction to the word "kawaii":
I was at a large game arcade in Okayama with my friend and his wife. We had brought with us his daughter, who was about 10 months old at the time.
At one point, I was alone and carrying his daughter around as she "ooooohed" and pointed at the many colorful games, machines, displays, and people in the arcade. I thought that we had even begun communicating and so, by instinct, I started to talk to her about Algebra and the Calculus. (I'm a bit of an optimist...)
But the lesson was suddenly interrupted when we were accosted by a swarm of some dozen Japanese high school girls. They kept looking at--and sometimes touching!--the baby, all the while saying, "Kawaii!"
"Kawaii!" "Kawaii!" "Kawaii!" "Kawa--"
You get the picture.
This went on for awhile--approximately a decade, by my reckoning--and my friends scrambled to get a good picture of the whole episode from an upper-level. As a 35-year-old mathematics teacher, the mass of attention from teenage girls no longer held the thrill that I had supposed it would have had when I was but a young lad of 11. While I wasn't actually disturbed by it, I was rather uncomfortable and I didn't understand what they were saying. And I certainly didn't know what I should do, aside from standing there, dumbly. And so I began sweating profusely, hoping for a savior, a way out...
My friends, of course, let me sweat it out. I eventually had to walk away, to the sounds of obvious, almost painful, distress of the ever-growing gaggle of 17-year-old girls.
~phew~
As part of our ensuing discussion of the Kawaii-factor at their apartment that night, my friends (who assured me that they are usually quite anti-Kawaii) told me that some Kawaii-trends have begun to disappear. And they greatly approved of this change! For instance, when my buddy's wife was a teenager, Japanese girls usually put their hands over their mouths when they laughed (or, sometimes, even when they spoke), but this has begun to go out of style, according to her (she's a university professor). She applauds this new "movement." (Because it used to really piss her off!)
Anyway, though this lengthy story is not quite like what we're really talking about--it was a cute little baby, after all--I thought that it might still be germaine.
Regards,
Dan
First, I must award you many kudos for the excellent Zulu Dawn allusions and metaphors you've seamlessly woven through this thread (and in the poll). Well done!
I don't remember the word "kawaii" from the late 1970s when I was a little boy in Tokyo. But, then again, I was wrapped up in my own little pre-teen gaijin world. It could be that the many girls and young women who petted (yes, "petted") my little brother's head on the trains uttered the word repeatedly. (At the time he had very blond hair. My hair was dark brown. Dammit.)
But I was so envious of the attention he was receiving that I likely blocked it out. He absolutely hated it, of course, but he was only about 8 at the time and didn't yet share or comprehend my burgeoning preoccupation with females. In retrospect, I certainly agree that he was justified in having been perturbed by the unsolicited and unauthorized manipulation of his remarkable golden noggin.
Upon returning to Japan in December of 2003, I found the Kawaii-factor largely entertaining but also a little...disquieting. On the one hand, I accepted it academically as an interesting fact about the culture of young Japanese women. On the other hand, it sometimes seemed rather extreme. But, I was a visitor, reticent to pass judgment. And so I remain. (I haven't yet voted in the poll--I need another trip to Japan first!)
If I may prattle on for quite a bit longer, I'll share with you my first known introduction to the word "kawaii":
I was at a large game arcade in Okayama with my friend and his wife. We had brought with us his daughter, who was about 10 months old at the time.
At one point, I was alone and carrying his daughter around as she "ooooohed" and pointed at the many colorful games, machines, displays, and people in the arcade. I thought that we had even begun communicating and so, by instinct, I started to talk to her about Algebra and the Calculus. (I'm a bit of an optimist...)
But the lesson was suddenly interrupted when we were accosted by a swarm of some dozen Japanese high school girls. They kept looking at--and sometimes touching!--the baby, all the while saying, "Kawaii!"
"Kawaii!" "Kawaii!" "Kawaii!" "Kawa--"
You get the picture.
This went on for awhile--approximately a decade, by my reckoning--and my friends scrambled to get a good picture of the whole episode from an upper-level. As a 35-year-old mathematics teacher, the mass of attention from teenage girls no longer held the thrill that I had supposed it would have had when I was but a young lad of 11. While I wasn't actually disturbed by it, I was rather uncomfortable and I didn't understand what they were saying. And I certainly didn't know what I should do, aside from standing there, dumbly. And so I began sweating profusely, hoping for a savior, a way out...
My friends, of course, let me sweat it out. I eventually had to walk away, to the sounds of obvious, almost painful, distress of the ever-growing gaggle of 17-year-old girls.
~phew~
As part of our ensuing discussion of the Kawaii-factor at their apartment that night, my friends (who assured me that they are usually quite anti-Kawaii) told me that some Kawaii-trends have begun to disappear. And they greatly approved of this change! For instance, when my buddy's wife was a teenager, Japanese girls usually put their hands over their mouths when they laughed (or, sometimes, even when they spoke), but this has begun to go out of style, according to her (she's a university professor). She applauds this new "movement." (Because it used to really piss her off!)
Anyway, though this lengthy story is not quite like what we're really talking about--it was a cute little baby, after all--I thought that it might still be germaine.
Regards,
Dan
- 15 Mar 2003
- 1,209
- 47
- Thread starter
- #80
Thank Dan B, I really enjoyed your story.
I think from Dan B's story we can see that he was very lucky to escape in one piece. I point you towards this thread and my discussions of cuteness (genuine/gray/malignant). Lucky for Dan B, the false "kawaii" thrown by the high schools girls (usually in the gray to malignant cute groups by default) where balanced out perfectly by the genuine cuteness of the baby. Malignant and genuine cuteness mixed to form a general atmosphere of gray cutness, which resulted in Dan B's unease and sweating.
If Dan B had been approached by that much malignant cute at one time without the protection of a truly cute child, it is quite likely his head would have exploded.
That is something they don't tell you in them travel guides. Why do you think tourist numbers to Japan are down?
I think from Dan B's story we can see that he was very lucky to escape in one piece. I point you towards this thread and my discussions of cuteness (genuine/gray/malignant). Lucky for Dan B, the false "kawaii" thrown by the high schools girls (usually in the gray to malignant cute groups by default) where balanced out perfectly by the genuine cuteness of the baby. Malignant and genuine cuteness mixed to form a general atmosphere of gray cutness, which resulted in Dan B's unease and sweating.
If Dan B had been approached by that much malignant cute at one time without the protection of a truly cute child, it is quite likely his head would have exploded.
That is something they don't tell you in them travel guides. Why do you think tourist numbers to Japan are down?
Well, personally, I'm not a fan of "cuteness," per se. As others have pointed out, some things in life are quite naturally cute--adorable, in fact. Small animals and kids come to mind. I have even seen some women who are naturally cute; however, they are few and far between. What has been described here are women who obviously pretend to be cute, and that's something else entirely. It's manipulation, plain and simple, which is a huge turnoff for anyone. No one likes being manipulated, and no one likes someone who is false and dishonest. Most people appreciate truthfulness and honesty, in speech and in behavior. Whenever I see someone who is phony like that, especially if it is extreme, it just makes my skin crawl, so I definitely know what you are talking about, Mandylion. All I want to do is get far, far away from that person! Sometimes I even feel like grabbing them, shaking them by the shoulders, and saying, "Are you even in there?!" I often have this irresistable urge to rip their mask off or something! Of course, depending on the severity of it and my mood at the time, their phoniness can also be quite an amusing show to watch! It just depends. But either way, I never take anyone like that seriously. They don't take themselves seriously, so why should I?
Also, I can relate to what Maciamo mentioned about the extremes of perceived masculinity and femininity. I don't like being boxed in and told who I can and can't be. Moreover, I don't like anyone else thinking they have the right to determine my femininity for me. As a woman, I'm the only judge of that one!
I'll never forget growing up and not understanding all of the societal B.S. inflicted on me. For instance, I didn't see any problem at all with calling boys. If I wanted to talk to someone, I called them. Seemed simple enough. But nooooo, girls aren't supposed to call boys. Funny, all the boys seemed to love it! The only people who had a problem with it were the adults, passing on learned stereotypes, in order to really screw us all up!! And boys were told they couldn't cry or feel anything. What nonsense.
I remember reading a story about when JFK, Jr. was a little kid. He had been injured on the ski slopes, and one of the older Kennedy members told him, "A Kennedy doesn't cry." He responded, "Well, this one does!" You gotta love a kid who knows who he is! Screw you, I'm in pain, man!! I had never heard about what Maciamo mentioned with respect to Japanese men denying themselves things that are sweet. Talk about being masochistic and punishing yourself for experiencing pleasure. Or rather, I guess what they are really trying to punish is the feminine parts of themselves. How stupid. I've always considered men who were into refinement, pleasure, and taste to be "cultured." Certainly not feminine. Frankly, the men who come across a bit effeminate are those who are conformists, trying to be something they're not, trying to please everyone but themselves and gain the approval of others. It doesn't translate as being very masculine to me.
I think when people conform and try to be something they are not, they become less feminine or less masculine. To me, what makes a woman feminine is a woman who knows who she is and what she's about--and who loves being female! You can't get any more feminine than that. And what makes a man masculine is a man who knows who he is and what he's about--and who loves being male! You can't get any more masculine than that. I think societal pressures that force us to be something we're not tend to rob us of our essence, and then we don't know who we are. And that's not very attractive! But someone who is confident and has a good sense of who they are is very attractive and very alluring. However, all the "cuteness" in the world isn't going to help someone who doesn't have a clue as to who they are or who is hell-bent on being something they are not. Instead, they come across as shallow and transparent as hell.
I'll never forget back in the '70s there were some men who usually drove Corvettes (I know, a cool car) and wore white shoes, a white belt, an open shirt down to the navel, with a gold chain around their necks. They would frequent the bars and think they were "hip." The reality is most women would simply roll their eyes and see them as a neon sign that read "Insecure." They were ridiculous. In the '80s it was the yuppies driving BMWs in order to "impress" women. The bottom line is, they were trying to be something they were not and they didn't have a clue who they were. I think what Mandylion described here in this thread is the female equivalent of that! These women acting "cute" obviously aren't fooling anyone and in the end aren't really considered attractive by most people. They're all con artists, pretending to be something else in order to manipulate and control. Gee, what a turnon (being sarcastic here).
I'm very feminine and quite naturally into things that are considered feminine--flowers, perfume, sexy lingerie, soft or silky clothes, candlelight dinners, bubble baths, etc. and lots of romance!! I'm what's called a "hopeful romantic," which is much different than a "hopeless romantic," mind you. And I have a weakness for intelligent, strong, cultured, masculine men, I guess. The more masculine, the more weak in the knees I get. And then the more feminine I become, the more masculine he becomes ... and so it goes! The interplay of the energies is the best and so much fun! But you can only do that if you're true to yourself and allow nature to take its course. If it's phony or forced, it just doesn't work. I don't know, maybe I'm not making any sense here. It's kind of hard to describe properly.
But to make a long story short, I don't care for cuteness or people who are into conforming to stereotypes. Interesting topic!
Also, I can relate to what Maciamo mentioned about the extremes of perceived masculinity and femininity. I don't like being boxed in and told who I can and can't be. Moreover, I don't like anyone else thinking they have the right to determine my femininity for me. As a woman, I'm the only judge of that one!
I'll never forget growing up and not understanding all of the societal B.S. inflicted on me. For instance, I didn't see any problem at all with calling boys. If I wanted to talk to someone, I called them. Seemed simple enough. But nooooo, girls aren't supposed to call boys. Funny, all the boys seemed to love it! The only people who had a problem with it were the adults, passing on learned stereotypes, in order to really screw us all up!! And boys were told they couldn't cry or feel anything. What nonsense.
I remember reading a story about when JFK, Jr. was a little kid. He had been injured on the ski slopes, and one of the older Kennedy members told him, "A Kennedy doesn't cry." He responded, "Well, this one does!" You gotta love a kid who knows who he is! Screw you, I'm in pain, man!! I had never heard about what Maciamo mentioned with respect to Japanese men denying themselves things that are sweet. Talk about being masochistic and punishing yourself for experiencing pleasure. Or rather, I guess what they are really trying to punish is the feminine parts of themselves. How stupid. I've always considered men who were into refinement, pleasure, and taste to be "cultured." Certainly not feminine. Frankly, the men who come across a bit effeminate are those who are conformists, trying to be something they're not, trying to please everyone but themselves and gain the approval of others. It doesn't translate as being very masculine to me.
I think when people conform and try to be something they are not, they become less feminine or less masculine. To me, what makes a woman feminine is a woman who knows who she is and what she's about--and who loves being female! You can't get any more feminine than that. And what makes a man masculine is a man who knows who he is and what he's about--and who loves being male! You can't get any more masculine than that. I think societal pressures that force us to be something we're not tend to rob us of our essence, and then we don't know who we are. And that's not very attractive! But someone who is confident and has a good sense of who they are is very attractive and very alluring. However, all the "cuteness" in the world isn't going to help someone who doesn't have a clue as to who they are or who is hell-bent on being something they are not. Instead, they come across as shallow and transparent as hell.
I'll never forget back in the '70s there were some men who usually drove Corvettes (I know, a cool car) and wore white shoes, a white belt, an open shirt down to the navel, with a gold chain around their necks. They would frequent the bars and think they were "hip." The reality is most women would simply roll their eyes and see them as a neon sign that read "Insecure." They were ridiculous. In the '80s it was the yuppies driving BMWs in order to "impress" women. The bottom line is, they were trying to be something they were not and they didn't have a clue who they were. I think what Mandylion described here in this thread is the female equivalent of that! These women acting "cute" obviously aren't fooling anyone and in the end aren't really considered attractive by most people. They're all con artists, pretending to be something else in order to manipulate and control. Gee, what a turnon (being sarcastic here).
I'm very feminine and quite naturally into things that are considered feminine--flowers, perfume, sexy lingerie, soft or silky clothes, candlelight dinners, bubble baths, etc. and lots of romance!! I'm what's called a "hopeful romantic," which is much different than a "hopeless romantic," mind you. And I have a weakness for intelligent, strong, cultured, masculine men, I guess. The more masculine, the more weak in the knees I get. And then the more feminine I become, the more masculine he becomes ... and so it goes! The interplay of the energies is the best and so much fun! But you can only do that if you're true to yourself and allow nature to take its course. If it's phony or forced, it just doesn't work. I don't know, maybe I'm not making any sense here. It's kind of hard to describe properly.
But to make a long story short, I don't care for cuteness or people who are into conforming to stereotypes. Interesting topic!
shotime77780
先輩
- 2 Aug 2004
- 87
- 1
interesting topic indeed, but i feel a different level of cuteness factor depending on my mood, i sometimes feel that somethings are extrememly cute on random day but i sometimes feel like shunning it and playing violent video games other days.....
oih ya edit post: when i was watching japanese tv while i was in japan, some comercials were really..........well, i think many of you who live in japan have seen the Acom and Promise comercials. OMG i dont know what to say about them, first of all they both feature lots of young japanese women working as sales rep over a telephone and there all bunched up into 1 crowded office space. Second of all they feature a very young looking girl with a very kawaaii voice.... i mean its so kawaiii and high pitched its almost......orgasmic (is that a word?) Third of all they provide some kind of indirect sexual message that if you call the company you can instantly get girls ~_~
has ne 1 seem these 2 commercials?
oih ya edit post: when i was watching japanese tv while i was in japan, some comercials were really..........well, i think many of you who live in japan have seen the Acom and Promise comercials. OMG i dont know what to say about them, first of all they both feature lots of young japanese women working as sales rep over a telephone and there all bunched up into 1 crowded office space. Second of all they feature a very young looking girl with a very kawaaii voice.... i mean its so kawaiii and high pitched its almost......orgasmic (is that a word?) Third of all they provide some kind of indirect sexual message that if you call the company you can instantly get girls ~_~
has ne 1 seem these 2 commercials?
or maybe even before that. Odds are she wont ever want to be cute for you again, so guys enjoy it while you got it!Cute gets on my damn nerves.
Fair enough for little kids etc. But girls that try to be cute, bleh!
For me it makes them seem very unintelligent and childish, where as I prefer a female with brains and a mature look on life.
Im also a 'cut the cr4p and get to the point' kind of guy. Cute is something I dont go for.
Fair enough for little kids etc. But girls that try to be cute, bleh!
For me it makes them seem very unintelligent and childish, where as I prefer a female with brains and a mature look on life.
Im also a 'cut the cr4p and get to the point' kind of guy. Cute is something I dont go for.
Rich303
後輩
- 31 Mar 2005
- 597
- 22
I stumbled across a thread about JREF members' tolerence for cuteness earlier today, and thought I'd add my bit...
I am crazy for the whole cute thing!
I don't know why because I usually like quite dark,edgy stuff and not poppy,happy things.
If cuteness could be personified it would be Aya Matsuura. She is adorable.
Not even in a sexual way(well maybe a bit!), just really sweet.
I also like 'cuteness' in design that I see too, and it often finds it's way into modern Japanese art.
When I was in Japan I kept seeing this TV advert for a custard cake, which was a bit over the top. It was all hearts and flowers, with a really sickly jingle - but I found it more funny rather than annoying
I am crazy for the whole cute thing!
I don't know why because I usually like quite dark,edgy stuff and not poppy,happy things.
If cuteness could be personified it would be Aya Matsuura. She is adorable.
Not even in a sexual way(well maybe a bit!), just really sweet.
I also like 'cuteness' in design that I see too, and it often finds it's way into modern Japanese art.
When I was in Japan I kept seeing this TV advert for a custard cake, which was a bit over the top. It was all hearts and flowers, with a really sickly jingle - but I found it more funny rather than annoying
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Rich303
後輩
- 31 Mar 2005
- 597
- 22
Sweet girls rule...
I think this is happening to me,and I don't even live in Japan. I already have 3 little Teddy bears that my japanese pen pal made for me!
I am finding women from my own country increasingly aggressive.
You could say I'm sexist, because I don't like women to act like men, but I don't like the way a lot of men behave - so I'm certainly not interested in a girl who wishes to emulate this.
I DJed at my friends wedding recently which was quite a challenge. I've never done a wedding before and was playing some of my records(which were appropriate),and others supplied by the groom and his friends.
I wasn't playing for myself (I'm usually into Techno and all sorts of unusual stuff), and I recieved compliments on my music from the band who were also playing, the bar staff, and most importantly the groom and his new wife.
However, someone wasn't happy.
A stuck-up, rude, drunk girl was hassling me about what I was playing because she only liked Jazz-Funk.
In a very patronising tone,she was going on about how I was playing just my favourite records - If I was playing my favourite records,there would certainly have been a lot more complaints from other people!
She was making all these assumptions about me and being quite rude, and I'd never even met her before.
Oh well, I suppose you can't please everyone.
Maybe I just fair badly from these type of women because I'm a bit of a wuss,
but I am fed up with the way things are going.
There is nothing liberating about being rude and aggressive. I think men still need to be more like women rather than the other way round.
Sorry if I've upset any 'strong' women (or indeed 'wimmin'), this is just my opinion.
- Rich (Chairman for the committee on pink dresses and kitten appreciation)
Maciamo said:
I think this is happening to me,and I don't even live in Japan. I already have 3 little Teddy bears that my japanese pen pal made for me!
I am finding women from my own country increasingly aggressive.
You could say I'm sexist, because I don't like women to act like men, but I don't like the way a lot of men behave - so I'm certainly not interested in a girl who wishes to emulate this.
I DJed at my friends wedding recently which was quite a challenge. I've never done a wedding before and was playing some of my records(which were appropriate),and others supplied by the groom and his friends.
I wasn't playing for myself (I'm usually into Techno and all sorts of unusual stuff), and I recieved compliments on my music from the band who were also playing, the bar staff, and most importantly the groom and his new wife.
However, someone wasn't happy.
A stuck-up, rude, drunk girl was hassling me about what I was playing because she only liked Jazz-Funk.
In a very patronising tone,she was going on about how I was playing just my favourite records - If I was playing my favourite records,there would certainly have been a lot more complaints from other people!
She was making all these assumptions about me and being quite rude, and I'd never even met her before.
Oh well, I suppose you can't please everyone.
Maybe I just fair badly from these type of women because I'm a bit of a wuss,
but I am fed up with the way things are going.
There is nothing liberating about being rude and aggressive. I think men still need to be more like women rather than the other way round.
Sorry if I've upset any 'strong' women (or indeed 'wimmin'), this is just my opinion.
- Rich (Chairman for the committee on pink dresses and kitten appreciation)
<3
- 3 Dec 2005
- 259
- 10
What ever happened to elegant, charming, and mysterious?
Satorian
devil's advocate
- 17 Apr 2004
- 167
- 7
He didn't get the plane, but started a beautiful friendship.
- 8 Mar 2005
- 2,139
- 89
Cute is alright, unless it's used as an excuse for lolicon... If you're comfortable enough to watch an anime about the life and times of Japanese 11 year olds running around in their summer-dresses... or listening to similarly aged "real life" girls with horrendous voices & no discernable dancing talent sing & dance, then you should be comfortable enough to say you have a lolita complex.
See ichigo mashimaro & berryz koubo, respectively.
Oh, and yes, this excuse has been used for both, but generally speaking since lolicon is "from Japan!", it's used as an excuse to rationalize all manner of paraphilia by self-proclaimed American "otaku"...
See ichigo mashimaro & berryz koubo, respectively.
Oh, and yes, this excuse has been used for both, but generally speaking since lolicon is "from Japan!", it's used as an excuse to rationalize all manner of paraphilia by self-proclaimed American "otaku"...
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