there are many o2b1 ppl in southern Ryukyu and southern island in Japan...
I think O2b1 Japanese infuluenced korea oppositely
where did O2b1 ppi came from?
I think they came from around Jiangsu in china with wet rice
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiangsu
The reason why haplotype D2 is so high among Japanese males is because the Paekche Aya tribes allowed the primitive Austronesian males to intermingle with the recent invaders from Korea.
The idea that Japanese invaders came and settled in Korea during the Three Kingdoms period is an outright fabrication by you.
Its the other way around buddy. Korea and China is becomming greater and Japan is waning. Korea is using ancient history to mock Japan. Because it shows how Japan couldnt have done anything without Korea's help. Not because of some silly delusional Japanese belief that Koreans are jealous. Really now, what is there to be jealous of? Japanese economy is crap. Its technology companies cannot keep up with Korea. China is going to become the next superpower while Japan is going to become a 3rd world country.lol,feed one's own desire to associate with that which is greater than you.
Nowadays,Japanese are wanted ( a desire out of inferiority complex ) by the Koreans and Chinese.They are no more or less related to any of these 2 East Asian ethnic groups.
I know who ChosonNinja is. He is a fraud, no Korean likes him or cares about it. Japan has frauds too. Of course Japan is desperate to find faults with Korea(because Korea can find so many against Japan) so they blame all of Korea over what ChosonNinja does. As if ChosonNinja was the absolute ruler of Korea. A sign of desperation. Sad sad Japanese. Now lets look at Japanese historical fabrication.I think thie is for you
[youtube]IghQg-PLZEM[/youtube]
[youtube]ni-oabqzMbQ[/youtube]
Do you even know how to read? Or do you only copy stuff from japanese wikipedia and parrot everything it says? I made no mention of the Japanese damaging the stele(although its a huge possibility). I only mentioned that Japan's translation of the stele was inaccurate and downright moronic.The oldest rubbed copy of Gwanggaeto Stele(in the northeastern Chinese province of Jilin) was found in China. This rubbed copy conforms closely to Imperial Japanese Army's one, including descriptions about ancient Japan. This fact became clear by Jo Kenshin's study. He is a professor at Chinese Academy of Social Sciences.
His study put an end to the controversy over the inscription on this stele from 70's. Some people claimed that Imperial Japanese Army had altered this inscription, but this theory could be proved incorrect conclusively.
The inscription on this stele says:
"Since 391, Wa(Japan) crossed sea and defeated Baekje, ?? and Silla and made them subjects."
In 1883, this rubbed copy was gotten by Sakoh Kagenobu, who was an officer of Japan Army General Staff. Japanese Army General Staff concluded that Japan had ruled Korean Peninsula in ancient times.
After the war, some people questioned the credibility of Sakoh's rubbed copy. In 1972, Lee, professor emeritus at Wako University, claimed that Japanese Army had altered this inscription to justify their expanding to Korean Peninsula. Lee's theory aroused great controversy between the researchers from 4 countries, Japan, China, Korea and North Korea. Since then the widely held theory was propounded, but this theory did not put an end to the controversy over the inscription under the condition that it's difficult to verify theories with the real thing.
Jo professor have been studying about 50 real rubbed copies in various nations of East Asia. Year before last, he found a rubbed copy copied in 1881 at the auction of Peking. This copy is older than Sakoh's one, which had been considered as the oldest until then. He captured this and Sakoh's to his PC and compared them. Then he found there is no sign of intentional alteration. This year, the outcomes of his study was published in the book, "The study of rubbed copies of Gwanggaeto Stele(TokyoDo)".
Jo professor stressed the significance of his study and said " This result will release us from proving the emperor-centered historic view of old Japan or Japanese army's involvement, and Gwanggaeto Stele will be appreciated as a pure historical record to reveal the history of East Asia from the 4th to 5th century." But a widely-accepted theory says this inscription describes Japan as a more powerful nation than it really was. This theory explains that the inscription exaggerates the achievement of Gwanggaeto who defeated Japan. Though Imperial Japanese Army's alteration is denied, this does not automatically mean ancient Japan ruled the whole Korean Peninsula.
This inscription is not the only record about ancient Japan's expanding to Korean Peninsula.
For example, Chinese book on history, Chronicles of Sui Dynasty("Zui Sho" in Japanese) describes Baekje and Silla thought Japan is a great power.
What an awful awful translation. The correct translation isThis book says;
Baekje and Silla thought Japan is a great power and have many rare things. Each of them respects Japan, and dispatches envoys who always come and go to Japan.
This book says;
Only a Japanese person will interpret history in such a way. Baekje and Shilla sent those princes as emissaries. As foreign diplomats. The fact that you believe this somehow denotes Wa conquered Shilla and Baekje is laughable. Its neither supported by historical records or archaeology. Shilla sent its prince in order to secure military aid and control from japanese warlords at the time. Baekje also sent a prince for the same reason. They did so because both Shilla and Baekje were at war against each other and needed every single advantage to overcome the other. Baekje won out in the end and Wa later became a colony of Baekje.Korean book on history, Chronicles of three nations(Sangokushiki in Japanese) says Baekje and Silla send their princes to Japan as hostages.In 397, Baekje establishes diplomatic relations with Japan, and send their prince, Chonjiwan to Japan as a hostage.In 402, Silla establishes diplomatic relations with Japan, and send their prince, Mikishin to Japan as a hostage.
You've lost all your credibility by mentioning the Nihonshoki. Half of the book dwells with fictional events. Including gods, flying people, dragons, lasers, time travel and cloud people. LOL. Not even Japanese historians use it as a historical reference. So what are you doing right now?Japanese book on history, Chronicles of Japan("Nihonshoki" in Japanese)
You actually believe Empress Jingu who supposedly conquered Korea was a real historical figure? Sorry to burst your bubble, but she never existed. You fail big time for using the Nihonshoki as evidence. Not even Japanese historians believe she's real.also records their expansion to Korean Peninsula, though there are various theories as to when each event happened.
These records are compliment one another and do not conflict with another(They are only representative examples).
These facts show that ancient Japan really ruled at least a part of Korean Peninsula.
LOL do you even know how to read? Talhae wasnt born in Japan. He was born 1000 li of Wa(Japan). Which is a very long distance. Or they could have also been referring to the Korean kingdom of Kaya whom was also called Wa. 1 Li during that time period was about 600 meters. So in other words, Talhae was born 600 km away from Japan. And that is if he was even a real person.Talhae of Silla
wa ppls were kings of Silla
//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talhae_of_Silla
How on earth does a single Japanese person working for the Korea king somehow denote to Japan making Korea? Mind you that there are a hundred times more recorded instances of Japan using Korean scholars and ministers to build its nations. And this is recorded within Japanese texts.Hogong
//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogong
Silla was made by the Japanese?:blush:
I an not liying. all things are witten in the korean and chinese document
that is why I did not show Japanese one according to ancient document.
I think you should read korean document in Samguk Sagi at first
Of course a lot of people came via Korea Peninsula.
Im pretty sure if Japan conquered Korea in ancient times, the Samguk Sagi you are referring to would mention it.
So why is there no mention of Japan defeating Korea in the Samguk Sagi? Why instead is there mention of Korea regularly destroying/subjugating Japan?
so, korean history ,the things that are written in Samguk Sagi is a lie?
so was the chinese documents about Wa and korean..:blush:
I want to see such documents about it. please show me.
if you can not, who would be a liar
Typical Japanese history
This book says;
Baekje and Silla thought Japan is a great power and have many rare things. Each of them respects Japan, and dispatches envoys who always come and go to Japan.
This book says;
What an awful awful translation. The correct translation is
""Silla and Baekje both take Wa to be a big country of treasure source, with many rare and precious things in Japan; also [Silla and Baekje] highly esteemed it [many rare and precious things], and regularly send their person there"".
Silla, Baekje and later Goguryeo colonized Japan and considered it a "treasure source" and regularly sent colonists to it. Thats very danming evidence and only Japanese historians deny it and claim that Koreans were somehow sending tribute to japan. As if that makes any sense lol.
Typical Japanese history
Originally Posted by caster51
Talhae of Silla
wa ppls were kings of Silla
//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talhae_of_Silla
LOL do you even know how to read? Talhae wasnt born in Japan. He was born 1000 li of Wa(Japan). Which is a very long distance. Or they could have also been referring to the Korean kingdom of Kaya whom was also called Wa. 1 Li during that time period was about 600 meters. So in other words, Talhae was born 600 km away from Japan. And that is if he was even a real person.
""According to the Samguk Sagi, when he was born as an egg, his father considered it an ill omen and had it boxed and floated at sea. The egg floated past Geumgwan Gaya and landed east of Gyerim (near today's Gyeongju, South Korea), where he was raised by an old man as a fisherman. His family is said to have taken over a high official's house by claiming to be metalsmiths.""
So basically, you claim that a person who was born far far away from Japan. And who was born in an egg that floated around the ocean for quite some time before being discovered by a fisherman somehow denotes to Japan conquering Korea.
Right........
Excuse me while I hold my laughter.
lol @ corean trolls' desperate attempt
I tell again I never show and use the Japanese ancient document.
those things are written in the chinese and korean documents
if there are some bloblem, it is that the korean could not read the Chinese character.
bring korean document in chinese characters as an opposite evidence
隋書 倭国(wa)伝
新羅 百濟皆以俀爲大國 多珎物 並敬仰之 恒通使往來
it would be enogh
geocities.jp/intelljp/cn-history/zui/wa.htm
脱解本多婆那國所生也 其國在倭國東北一千里
1000li to north east from wa was 多婆那國
if there was wa in kyusyu, there is 多婆那國 around Tottori or kansai
Kaya was also a part of WA
anyway ,1000li in book of sill at that time was around 75~80km
there are some discriptions about distance
for example, from tushima and iki island was 1000li
Daifang Commandery to Yamatai(japan) 12,000li
wikipedia.org/wiki/Daifang_Commandery
二年春正月(AD58?)、拜瓠公為大輔。二月、親祀始祖廟。
then
in 59, 三年春三月、王登吐含山、有玄雲如蓋、浮王頭上、良久而散。夏五月、與倭國結好交聘
Frankly,Coreans' deep-seated inferiority complexes are getting tiresome and embarrassing
It's like " we Coreans don't have blah blah blah of our own,so let's hijack one "
Jealous of what? What is there to be jealous of? Sorry but nobody in the world is envious of Japan. Japan is a dying nation. There is nothing to be jealous of. Koreans are not jealous of Japan being the only country to get nuked ok?
If you have nothing intelligent left to say, then I suggest you shut up and leave. You're only making the Japanese side look childish and unable to debate properly.
lol,feed one's own desire to associate with that which is greater than you.
Nowadays,Japanese are wanted ( a desire out of inferiority complex ) by the Koreans and Chinese.They are no more or less related to any of these 2 East Asian ethnic groups.
""Silla and Baekje both take Wa to be a big country of treasure source, with many rare and precious things in Japan; also [Silla and Baekje] highly esteemed it [many rare and precious things], and regularly send their person there"".
This is the correct translation. The book of sui mentions that Shilla and Baekje considered Wa to be a treasure source of material wealth and regularly sent colonists to take those resources. Not some ridiculous translation about how Shilla and Baekje viewed Japan as a great country and sent envoys to Japan in submission
according to Records of Three Kingdoms chapter WA in 3th CRemember, Japan at the time period had
1. No iron weapons.
2. No sophisticated armor.
3. No horses
4. No cavalry
5. No chariots
6. Smaller population
7. No organized government structure
8. primitive tech level
Your translation is ridiculous because not only is it mistranslated in your favor, but it does not fit the historical time period we are talking about. I cant believe you still think Japan conquered Korea. Wheres the evidence?
Kaya was never a part of Japan. It was a Korean kingdom and most Japanese historians agree it was never Japanese. Not only is there no historical source or text that mentions Kaya being Japanese, but there is also no circumstantial or archaelogical evidence to prove Japan conquering Kaya or any Korean kingdom. Kaya had iron weapons, organized government, horses, cavalry etc. Stuff Wa Japan did not have. You live in a fantasy world if you believe primitive Japanese people in tiny rift raft boats could cross the sea and defeat Kaya's well equipped and armored cavalry army with wooden sticks, stones and low quality farming implements. Especially when Japan had no organized government and very little in organized military. If you believe otherwise, then show me a record that proves Kaya was Japanese. Also name the battle in which Japan supposedly beat Kaya. Otherwise, shut up with your lies
the ninth year, kihae, of Yongnak [ A.D. 399], Paekchan [Paekche], in violation of its sworn oath, concluded a peace with the Wa. The king responded by making a tour down to P'yonyang, where an envoy sent from Silla reported to him, saying "The Wa people have filled our territory and are overwhelming and smashing our walls and moats. Since, as slave-guests, we have become your subject people, we take refuge in Your Majesty and ask for your command." The great king in his benevolence praised the sincerity of their loyalty and sent the envoy home to impart [a secret plan] to the Silla king.
In the tenth year, kyongja [A.D. 400], the king sent five myriads of troops, both foot and horse, to go to the aid of Silla. The whole area from Namgo-song to the Silla capital was filled with Wa people. At the approach of our government troops the Wa enemy retreated. [Our government troops came following their tracks; attacking the Wa] from behind, our troops reached Chongbal-song in Imnagara, which forthwith surrenderd.
The troops of the Alla people seized the Silla capital. It was full of Wa people, who flooded over the walls [in flight?].
In the fourteenth year, kapchin [A.D. 404], the Wa rose up and made an incursion into the territory Taebang. The king's forces, having waited for them at a critical point, surprised and assaulted them. The Wa marauders [Woegu] were utterly defeated, and countless numbers of them had their throats cut.
In the seventeenth year, chongmi [A.D. 407], the king issued instructions for the dispatch of five myriads of troops, foot and horse, [to wipe out the Wa marauders once and for all. When the marauders turned back and invaded P'yongyang, the royal] army engaged them in battle, smiting them mightily and wiping them out entirely.
anyway 1000li(about 435km) to northeast from wa is kansai area1000 Li does not equal 75-80 km. 1 Li during the time when the Samguk Sagi was written was about 500 m or .5 km. 1000 Li= 500 km. Not 75-80km. Not even close.
500 km is a long distance away from Wa Japan. That means Talhae wasnt Japanese. You claim that he was Japanese even though the book states he wasnt and that he was born far away from Wa. In fact, the Samguk sagi mentions that Talhae was born on Tapana, not Wa Japan. Again and again, you get historical facts wrong. Do you ever give up?
But thats besides the point. Do you even know how Talhae was born? Talhae wasn't a real person. Who cares if he lived 1 Li from wa or 500,000 Li from wa. He was a mythological character. Talhae was born as an egg. His father considered this bad luck so he threw the egg into the ocean. The egg drifted into the ocean for quite some time before being discovered by fishermen. The fishermen raised him as a human being.
Sounds realistic huh(sarcasm)? Not surprising since you believe everything written in the Nihonshoki to be real. Please say hi to any magical flying time travelling supermen if you see one.
korea aka Chosen was Japan at that timeKoreans are not jealous of Japan being the only country to get nuked ok?
新羅, 百濟皆以俀爲大國,
then
多珎物 ,並敬仰之 恒通使往來
敬= to respect
仰=to look up to
Silla and Baekje both take Wa to be a great country, with many rare and precious things; also [Silla and Baekje] respect and look up to them, and regularly send embassies there
Korean History Record Samguk Sagi : 三國史記 新羅本紀 : 元年 三月 與倭國通好 以奈勿王子未斯欣爲質
Korean History Record Samguk Sagi : 三國史記 百済本紀 : 六年夏五月 王與倭國結好 以太子腆支爲質 秋七月大閱於漢水之南
Chinese History Record Book of Song : 宋書 列傳第五十七 夷蠻 : 詔除武使持節、都督倭新羅任那加羅秦韓慕韓六國諸軍事、安東大將軍、倭王。興死,弟武立,自稱使持節、都督倭百濟新羅任那加羅秦韓慕韓七國諸軍事、安東大將軍、倭國王
according to Records of Three Kingdoms chapter WA in 3th C
用矛楯木弓 木弓短下長 竹箭或鐵鏃
WA ppl use iron
kaya was not included korea three kingdom.
of course there are many discription about kaya like WA
自稱使持節、都督倭百濟新羅任那加羅秦韓慕韓七國諸軍事、安東大將軍、倭國王
I think you should read Gwanggaeto Stele carefuly
Wa type of short armor 倭系帯金式短甲
kyuhaku.jp/exhibition/images/s_17/p11-l.jpg
In Busan museum、 these armours are called wA type of armour which were descoverd in Kaya
bell.jp/pancho/kasihara_diary/images/h18j/1029-21.jpg
In japan, 764 Iron armors was discoverd
in kaya, only 80..
Wrong. Even in the myth, Talhae wasn't Japanese. He wasn't born in Wa. He was born in 500km away from japan in a country called Tapana.anyway 1000li(about 435km) to northeast from wa is kansai area
there are a tanbakoku(丹波)and tanakoku(丹那国).. same sound of 多婆那国
Wrong again.Talhae wasn't a real person[/B]
we do not care at all about him
anyway, acording to korean myth
Dumbest comment ever., silla was made by wa ppl
Truth about the Koreans and Korea in Authorized History books
is this a true?
[youtube]9scIILkrT2I[/youtube]
korea aka Chosen was Japan at that time
many korean also died by them
Shilla and Baekje both take Wa to be a great country is innaccurate. The correct translation is "Shilla and Baekje both take Wa to be a large country".
The 大 makes no reference to Japan being "great". 大 is translated into large, not great. The book of Sui was written by Chinese historians who believed their country was at the center of the earth. A Chinese historian would never ever ever ever mention the word "great" with Wa Japan. The word Wa was in fact a derogatory term for the Japanese and implied island dwarf. The Chinese referred to themselves as great. Not Japan.
You also minimize the characters 多珍物 which translates into "many precious treasures/objects". The entire passage was talking about Japan's natural resources, otherwise they wouldn't have even mentioned it. So far the translation goes as followed "Shilla and Baekje both view Japan as a large country with lots of precious/rare treasures/resources". Obviously implying that both Koreans viewed Japan as a cash cow rather than a nation who conquered them. This makes even more sense because at the end of the passage they mentioned 恆通使往來 which translates into "both sent people on missions/envoy"(for those treasures).
http://www.gayasa.net/gaya/English/Museum/download/gapju.docVertical rectangular plate armor ceased to exist by the middle of the fifth century. In its place, the Gaya began using plate armor from Japan. As evidence of the spread of Japanese imports, Japanese armor from the fifth century A.D.--such as triangular plate body armor, horizontal rectangular plate body armor, and pointed helmets--has been found in Gaya tombs. Nonetheless, it was Mongol bowl-shaped helmets and mail armor that were the most common panoplies from the fifth century on..........
大= large and big.At first, it was not china that considerd wa was a great country
新羅, 百濟皆以俀爲大國,
then
多珎物 ,並敬仰之 恒通使往來
Shilla and Baekje both take Wa to be a large country".....
大国=large country?
that is why the korean loves to shout 大韓民国 De-han min gook!!!
Completely irrelevant to the discussion. Did you even bother to read the link you posted. Kaya did buy "some" Japanese armor probably out of curiosity, but the vast majority of armor used by the Kaya army was still of Korean origin. And really, what does this have to do with anything again? It still doesnt change the fact that Japanese armor was Korean.Vertical rectangular plate armor ceased to exist by the middle of the fifth century. In its place, the Gaya began using plate armor from Japan. As evidence of the spread of Japanese imports, Japanese armor from the fifth century A.D.--such as triangular plate body armor, horizontal rectangular plate body armor, and pointed helmets--has been found in Gaya tombs. Nonetheless, it was Mongol bowl-shaped helmets and mail armor that were the most common panoplies from the fifth century on..........
And what does that have to do with anything? There were lots and lots of Korean people in ancient China? Did that mean Korea conquered all of China? There are Koreans in America today. Does that mean Korea conquered America? Wa was filled to the brim with Korean immigrants. During the Nara period, a large segment of the nobility were Korean and Chinese immigrants. So what does that have to do with anything?.gayasa.net/gaya/English/M...load/gapju.doc
//74.125.153.132/search?q=cache...&ct=clnk&gl=jp
Wa ppl go back to mimana Kaya..
Silla capital was filled with Wa people
got to love this video ... :blush:
Your profile states that you have never been to Japan so, without a clear understanding of Japanese culture, history, and thinking, how can you justify your viewpoints and severe lambasting of caster51 as you fail to provide links for your justifications so that others may read and debate.
You seem to be great at referring to Chinese history and translations and who is to say they are correct in their history and teachings?
Every country has their own view on history and teach it to their children in the best way they deem fit when actual fact usually shows that it is usually not the case. America is a typical example in their conquering of west and the native Americans. The truth is, history, any country's history, is far from what we or they are taught. It is all propaganda in one way or another.
Also, have you read this entire thread? Since you seem to be so educated in this subject I would be interested in reading your views/debate concerning the other viewpoints posted which you seem to ignore but enjoy honing in on caster51 and slamming him.