What's new

Welcome to Japan Reference (JREF) - the community for all Things Japanese.

Join Today! It is fast, simple, and FREE!

Jomon and Yayoi origin of Japanese royal families

twinklestar

Kouhai
Joined
15 Nov 2006
Messages
58
Reaction score
2
The report was submitted by 4 Japanese anthropologists named Hiroki Oata,Naruya Saitou,Takayuki Matsushita,and Shintaroh Ueda ( @ National Institute of Genetics, Nishima Japan and Ooigahama Site Anthropological Museum Honhoku Japan ) to the American Journal of Human Genetics in 1998. It's archived at the University of Chicago, Department of Human Genomes. Yayoi population migrated from Lower Yangtze River Delta in China, where once was populated by ancient tattoo'ed Bai Yue indigenous people.

Their archaeological excavations overturned the long-held groundless myth of Yayoi invasions from Korea peninsula.
 

nasdaq100

Registered
Joined
16 Nov 2006
Messages
14
Reaction score
1
I am not interested in race itself.

I feel a pity to some chinese and korean. I do recieve many offensive messages from both people, because they are taught to think in a certain way, to suit for their superiority complex against Japanese, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Laotian, and other South East asians.


Really ? Then,why yourself a Viet care so much whether Japanese are related to the Chinese generic race or not :?


Pity yourself as a Viet and other Chinese blood-infactuated fellow Viets so bothered by Chinese kinship rejection.:(


There are many DNA mappings and reports challenge ones posted here and two of your other threads.


BTW,Mutu Munemitsu looks typical average skinny Vietnamese male and Prince Takehito's facial features resemble former S Vietnam ( 1965-67 )president named Nguyen Cao Ky.Some Japanese royalities have SE Asian Viet-looks,hope Viets feel relieve on fictitious desired-East Asian connection.
 

Color red

先輩
Joined
21 Oct 2006
Messages
224
Reaction score
5
Pity yourself as a Viet and other Chinese blood-infactuated fellow Viets so bothered by Chinese kinship rejection.:(

Ricecake? I know you used to like japanese names. Anyway, glad you are back here. 😊

There are many DNA mappings and reports challenge ones posted here and two of your other threads.

Then, challenge these articles by posting a newer Y haplogroup map. I remind you the criteria. (1)Date of Publication (2) Mode of Study (3) Nationalities of Authors. Please go ahead if you can find any new results, I would be very much interested.
 

chimera

後輩
Joined
3 Dec 2006
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
This is from a posting about Cambodia in Asia finest Forum:
(quote) "Some of the prince found there way into Anam(Viet) through merraige, and have there land absorbed into the Anam kingdom(current south Vietnam).

Some exiled to various islands in the south, some joined the Japanese Takugawa Shoganite and beacame pirates, many lead a peacful life by becoming monks and promoted Theraveda Buddhism by exiling to Sri Langka.
The Tokogawa shogunate had a base in Udong(Many Udong Khmers have Japanese Acestory), Cambodias old capital before Phnom Penh. There swords were way more superior. SEAsian blades would snape at the sight of a Tokogawa Blade. Cambodia legendery hero Techo Domden had a Samurai blade, and single handed defeated the Thais. The Tokogawas were great mercenaries too and became King Setta's body gaurds and brought canons into the kingdom.

If you visit Angkor go visit the southwest corner wall, you can see some of the grafitti that was left there by the Tokogawa." (end quote).
How much contact was there between Cambodia and Japan?
chimera
 

caster51

後輩
Joined
27 Feb 2005
Messages
1,915
Reaction score
35
How much contact was there between Cambodia and Japan?

there are many similarity for japanese traditional kid's play more than China or korea ....
 

Color red

先輩
Joined
21 Oct 2006
Messages
224
Reaction score
5
Origin of Japanese royal families

The report was submitted by 4 Japanese anthropologists named Hiroki Oata,Naruya Saitou,Takayuki Matsushita,and Shintaroh Ueda ( @ National Institute of Genetics, Nishima Japan and Ooigahama Site Anthropological Museum Honhoku Japan ) to the American Journal of Human Genetics in 1998. It's archived at the University of Chicago, Department of Human Genomes. Yayoi population migrated from Lower Yangtze River Delta in China, where once was populated by ancient tattoo'ed Bai Yue indigenous people.
Their archaeological excavations overturned the long-held groundless myth of Yayoi invasions from Korea peninsula.

Your link is dead. Please repost the original source again.
 

nekopon

後輩
Joined
4 Jan 2007
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
coffee break --- Jomon vs. Yayoi :)

Which do you like better, the Jomon girl or the immigrant Yayoi girl?

😌

And I got the matchday program of the friendly match, FC Tokyo (Japan) vs. FC Seoul (Korea).
I found the anthropological photos in it.
:)

Enjoy them.

🙂

jomonyayoi000A1.jpg

the Jomon girl --- > the owner of FC Tokyo
the immigrant Yayoi girl ---> the owner of FC Seoul

jomonyayoi000A2.jpg

jomonyayoi000A3.jpg

blue uniform ---> the players of FC Tokyo
red uniform ---> the players of FC Seoul
🕺

jomonyayoi000A4.jpg

the best looking player
🙂
 
Last edited:

nekopon

後輩
Joined
4 Jan 2007
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
coffee break 2

coffee break 2 --- Japanese

my image of "the Japanese people"


japanese.gif

ttp://book.geocities.jp/midnightanthropology/japanese.htm

🙂
 

EdZiomek

後輩
Joined
29 Jun 2005
Messages
281
Reaction score
14
Comparing English Royals with Japanese Royals...

Color Red...another amazingly good website, and I never, never realized the EXACTITUDE of the facial features of the Japanese Royal family, with the English Royal family, until now. Congratulations on your amazing threads!

royalscomparefv7thgif-1.jpg


Note: The present-day English Royal family was originally "borrowed" from the Hannover, German Royal family (very much related, anyway) after I believe George I of 1700 or so, due to the lack of a male heir in the English side of the Royals...

What do you think?
 

EdZiomek

後輩
Joined
29 Jun 2005
Messages
281
Reaction score
14
Comparing Japanese Royalty and Tibetans

Color Red...

I had done an architectural (Trapezoidal arches on the temples) and facial comparison between Incas of South America, and the Tibetans/Nepalese...

In that exercise, I compared a photo I took in Peru, of Incan band members, Member of Rebeldes, the Inca Horn and Drum Band from Agua Calientes, near Machu Picchu...

And compared this with an old photo from Lhasa, Tibet… Lost Lhasa, Heinrich Harrer’s Tibetツ…

I see a fair, slight similarity between the Tibetans, Incas, and Japanese Royal family....especially Prince Fushima and his wife.

These opinions are somewhat supported by DNA comparisons of the Jomon people and the extremely high incidence of the YAP-positive chromosomes, as others have pointed out...
Tibet incidence of Jomon DNA.... University of Pittsburg


"In contrast, a survey of 700 men from 13 northern Asian populations did reveal areas with YAP-positive chromosomes.
About 3 per cent of men from southwestern Siberia and Mongolia have the marker. The most spectacular finding was that more than 50 per cent of men from Tibet harbour the YAP element.

While Tibet is part of central Asia, Nei suggests that the YAP data support his theory that the Jomon originated in the northeast."
 

EdZiomek

後輩
Joined
29 Jun 2005
Messages
281
Reaction score
14
Color Red... I am so stunned at what you initiated here in this thread, and my results of the English/Japanese royal families, I have taken this a step further. I am putting together a composite of George Washington, Akenaten, Prince Fushima and his wife, Queen Elizabeth I and II, Colin Powell, ...I am now leaning towards the etymology of the name... JOMON.

Would you know where this name come from?

If this name is 10,000 years old, could it be the origin of the name...Human?
 
Joined
4 Jun 2006
Messages
511
Reaction score
38
I am amazed and appalled at the amount of absolute chaos this thread generated, and that I never noticed it until now. Now that it is just about dead, that is.

The more I hear about linguistic and anthropological arguments between Korea and Japan, the more I become convinced that the "science" behind the findings are driven purely by nationalism, and that it would take a team of truly neutral and unaffiliated anthropologists and linguistics to sift through all of the bull and get down to any reasonable theories. Nevertheless, I find the topic fascinating, I just find the arguments and the hot-blooded anger that it engenders to be disappointing and obfuscating.

By the way, nekopon:

The Jomon girl is way cuter.
 

EdZiomek

後輩
Joined
29 Jun 2005
Messages
281
Reaction score
14
One man's chaos...

One man's chaos, another man's opportunity for knowledge...

Peasant Ed Z reporting, Sir Emperor...

Could it be that we are all related?

I think a fruit fly has 92% of humanoid DNA and genes, or something. Chimpanzee, 97%. But ignorance and moronic persons like myself have 99.99999% of everyone else's genes, etc. (But who is counting...)

Color Red...Your DNA threads are getting me more and more hooked! My son says..."Take a break, your head is going to explode!"
Thanks, all.
Ed Z
 

EdZiomek

後輩
Joined
29 Jun 2005
Messages
281
Reaction score
14
Jomons and Jimmus

In a book entitled...The Lost Language of Symbolism, by Harold Bayley originally in 1912, I came across an amazing quotation....
"On ascending the throne of his fathers, A.D. 1868, Mutshuito, the late Emperor of Japan, thus addressed his people:--"My house, that from Jimmu Tenshi, has ruled over Japan according to the will of the Gods, is the oldest dynasty on earth, and is carried back 10 thousand years beyond Jimmu to the time when our Divine ancestors laid the foundation of the earth." Jimmu is the same as the English Jimmy, a form of James, or, as it used to be pronounced, Jeames, "the Everlasting Sunlight"."
My assumption is that the "Jimmus" are the "Jomon". If all these claims are even partially correct, and certainly the Royal families show remarkable facial similarities, and the YAP DNA shows presence from Greece to Japan and Nepal/Tibet and Amerindian tribes, then place me among the group that believes the Jomon/Jimmu are the oldest continuous known-culture on earth. I strongly suspect that the Jomon may even be what is categorized as "Indus Valley" civilization which claims parentage back to 8000 BC, and may even precede that group. Possible "Atlantean-era" roots? Very, very possible.
ColorRed...thanks! I learned something huge by your posts!
 

miwasatoshi

青春しています
Joined
27 Feb 2007
Messages
41
Reaction score
2
Um, wow.

Did you just conflate the Sinicized name Jimmu Tenno (Wakamikenu no Mikoto) with ... James?

"Jimmy" did not exist as a name until rather recently, it comes ultimately from the Hebrew Ya'akov!
 

EdZiomek

後輩
Joined
29 Jun 2005
Messages
281
Reaction score
14
No.

Miwasatoshi...no....I am not sure how you mean "conflate" and "Sinicized"?

Try my quote one more time...."My assumption is that the "Jimmus" are the "Jomon". If all these claims are even partially correct, ...."

I am asking for more information on this as I 100% present other persons material, for which I have questions rather than statements...

But back to your comment... are you saying the "Sinicized name Jimmu Tenno" equals the actual Japanese name "Wakamikenu no Mikoto"? The two names seem completely different.

And where did you get the information that James, or Jimmy equals Ya'akov?
The two names seem completely different.

Unless you can give me some references, or unless I find some form of supportive information on the internet, (and I might), I completely disagree with your opinions. But thanks for the contributions.
 

miwasatoshi

青春しています
Joined
27 Feb 2007
Messages
41
Reaction score
2
Jinmu Tennou, to be precise, is not a name of Japanese origin: it is the onyomi (Sino-Japanese reading) of 神武天皇. According to various articles, Wakamikenu no Mikoto was his actual given name.

English James < Middle French Gemmes < Late Latin Iacomus < Latin Iacobus < New Testament Greek Iakōbos < Hebrew Ya'aqov.

This is all easily accessible via Wikipedia. If you'd like further sources, they will be linked in the references and external links areas of those pages.

There is a direct line of etymology from Yaakov to James, and therefore, attempting to connect "Jimmy" with "Jimmu" makes far less sense.
 

EdZiomek

後輩
Joined
29 Jun 2005
Messages
281
Reaction score
14
You seem to be correct, and I am wrong.

After spending at least 2 minutes of research, it seems that Jomon and Jimmu are not at all related to each other (at least not what my simple research reveals, which is nothing at all).

Jomon is a specific tribe or group of ancient people, am I correct?

Jimmu or Jimnu Tennou is the first Emperor of Japan, and it was "the onyomi (Sino-Japanese reading) of 神武天皇. According to various articles, Wakamikenu no Mikoto was his actual given name". (your quote).

But as for the quotation reference to James, or Jaemes, that comes from the 1912 book, The Lost Language of Symbolism by Harold Bayley, and I am not so sure I would discount his reasoning of its origins being Jaemes, much like the French name Gemmes that you cite.

Jaemes or Gemmes, and yes, I did find a winding, twisting path from Ya'akov to James...

"The name Ya'acov became Iakobos in Greek. If you keep in mind that in some languages the sounds of b and v are quite similar (in modern Spanish they're identical), the Hebrew and Greek versions of the name look quite similar. By the time the Greek Iakobos became Latin, it had turned into Iacobus and then Iacomus. The big change came as some Latin morphed into French, where Iacomus was shortened to Gemmes. The English James is derived from that French version."


Miwasatoshi, I don't think you are wrong in your opinion, but I don't think Harold Bayley's 1912 opinion is also wrong... I think you both could be right.
Jaemes and Gemmes are too close to call.

PS...I didn't make the claim, only passed on the opinion. Thanks anyways for the clarification.

My basic question though...who was Mutshuito speaking about, what tribe was he talking about that was 10,000 years old, when in 1868, "...the late Emperor of Japan, thus addressed his people:--"My house, that from Jimmu Tenshi, has ruled over Japan according to the will of the Gods, is the oldest dynasty on earth, and is carried back 10 thousand years beyond Jimmu to the time when our Divine ancestors laid the foundation of the earth."
 

miwasatoshi

青春しています
Joined
27 Feb 2007
Messages
41
Reaction score
2
10,000 years (banzai) is a figure of speech and not generally meant to be take literally. "May you live ten thousand years." Of course you won't live that long.
 

EdZiomek

後輩
Joined
29 Jun 2005
Messages
281
Reaction score
14
Your opinion...

Miwatoshi...you think 10,000 years is a figurative number, and I say there is credence to "more advanced" cultures that have irrigations systems, lightening rods, possibly a flying device/kite, some 8000 BC, 10,000 years ago. I had understood that culture to be the "Indus Valley Culture".

There is also some speculation that prior to Stonehedge being made of stone, it was made of oak trees, and those oak stumps have been carbon dated at 6000 BC.

From a book on the advances of culture, I found the declarations that pottery appearances can be dated in the Northwest China area, possibly in the 10,000 BC time frame, reflecting a transition from hunter gatherer to agriculture cultures, and spreading West. In fact, many of the benchmark cultural events seem to have started in the Asian area, and spread to the rest of the world, starting in the 10,000 BC time frames.

If 10,000 is only a figurative number to you, when do you think advanced cultures began, and what were their advances?

You make very good, interesting comments, but I don't see much reference support, which I learn from, and appreciate. I say 10,000 BC is in synch with all that I have read, for more advanced, coordinated cultures to begin.

Possibly the Jomon history goes back to 8000 BC!
 

miwasatoshi

青春しています
Joined
27 Feb 2007
Messages
41
Reaction score
2
Re: Indus Valley culture
Try 5500 years ago.


Stonehenge's earliest traces (the moat) have been dated to 3100BC, still far from 10000 years.


Now, while the Jomon culture was clearly present in Japan 10000 years ago (not a figure of speech), citing them as an unbroken tradition to the present day is a bit ... well ... nationalistic and inaccurate. This ignores the Yayoi and other peoples who have arrived and systematically displaced the existing culture. Note that many of the distinctive Jomon forms of pottery (kaen doku and dougu) do not persist to the present day. Therefore, CLEARLY the culture even of Meiji Japan is not the same as that of the Jomon, but rather, one that has accumulated layers upon layers of change, much of it fairly drastic.


By the way, I've heard lots of people cite Tiwanaku in South America as being over 10000 years old, but there is no evidence to support an age greater than 2200 years.


Earliest civilizations:
Sumer - 4th millennium BC


Closer to 10,000 years ago, we have Catal Huyuk, which was already abandoned by the time of the Hittites. Note what it does not have: "no obvious public buildings or signs of division of labour".


The more advanced, coordinated cultures seem to begin closer to 6000 years ago, rather than 10000. 4000 years is a fairly important difference: it would be like ascribing our current technological process to Twelfth Dynasty Egypt!

(While the pyramids are impressive, they certainly did not have mass sanitation and water treatment, gunpowder, much less superhighways, computers, and the internet!)

If you don't trust Wikipedia, then try the sources cited within each article. There are fairly comprehensive bibliographies on each page I've listed.

More later.
 

EdZiomek

後輩
Joined
29 Jun 2005
Messages
281
Reaction score
14
Would you stake your academic reputation on Wikipedia? Are you saying that Wikipedia is the truth? I don't by any means.

And what of my previous quote showing Sumerian cunieform pottery in the Tiwanaku area? This indicates Sumerian presence in Bolivia possibly 4000+ years ago.
"Again from World-Mysteries.com, an amazing Bolivian discovery of pottery and statuary was made in 2002 and just now deciphered, showing Sumerian linguistic characters, artwork, design, and mythology, with a time date in the 2000 BC era."
Unexplained Mysteries around the world

Miwatoshi...you give answers as if you speak the truth. I applaud your bold confidence, but my 55 years tells me...we are all one discovery away, or one missing library book, or one DNA sampling away from making fools of ourselves with claiming to know the "truth" based on single sources. Our history books at present keep having timelines of discoveries getting pushed back, on the dates of the advent of more knowledgeable cultures. Wikipedia is not the be-all-end-all authority on anything. (Isn't it banned in China due to its "revisionist" false histories?)

Here is my favourite example... from American Encyclopedias that we teach our children with..."Who discovered the Pacific Ocean"...


Vasco Núñez de Balboa, The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition ... , c.1475-1519, Spanish conquistador, discoverer of the Pacific Ocean. "Toward the end of Sept. 1513, he discovered the Pacific and claimed it and all shores washed by it for the Spanish crown."

From the Catholic Encyclopedia
Vasco Nuñez de Balboa
Discoverer of the Pacific Ocean from the west coast of Central America, ....Then he proclaimed himself governor and sent both Enciso and Nicuesa away. From Darien he undertook, with a few followers, the hazardous journey across the isthmus that led to the discovery of the Pacific Ocean. 25 September, 1513, and established beyond all doubt the continental nature of America.



Balboa is a part of Panama City, located at the Pacific entrance to the Panama Canal. The area is named after Vasco Núñez de Balboa, the Spanish conquistador who claimed to have discovered the Pacific Ocean ...

Answers.com
Vasco Núñez de Balboa, 1475–1517
"Spanish explorer and colonial governor who discovered (1513) the Pacific Ocean and claimed it for Spain."


So if I read these claims as they are printed in American encyclopedias, circa 2007, the Pacific Ocean "disappeared" until 1513 AD? Then some European says..."Wow, what a big wonderful ocean I see...I claim to be the discoverer!" And we teach our children this information?! Yes.
 

miwasatoshi

青春しています
Joined
27 Feb 2007
Messages
41
Reaction score
2
Vasco Núñez de Balboa, the Spanish conquistador who claimed to have discovered the Pacific Ocean

True. "Claimed to have discovered" is obviously not the same as "discovered", is it! Balboa clearly did not discover the Pacific, any more than Columbus discovered North America. See, it HAS been changed from those old, inaccurate encyclopedias, hasn't it?

That's the nice thing about Wikipedia: you can fix it yourself if you feel it's inaccurate, but please be sure to cite first! :)

-----

As far as Sumerians in Tiwanaku = there are a zillion easier places for the Sumerians to have traveled before getting there. Why is there no trace of them in the intervening thousands of miles? It's not as if there aren't entire continents in the way.

The Pokotia inscriptions don't particularly look Sumerian to me, and the suggested Aymara-Sumerian word list is shakier than a California fault line.
 
Top Bottom