What to do about a racist, exclusionary Japan, & why?

[osias]

I'm more interested in how I would be treated if I went to one of the "no gaijin" onsen and demostrated that I could speak the language and that I had a knowledge of the local customs.

I'm not really sure about that. Why not go to Otaru, Hokkaido , and find out? If you look like an asian, you may pass as a local.

Yukio says that Japan is racist, but racist to who? To tourists? To legal foreign residents? To illegal foreign residents? To those who show hostility to the local population and customs? We may get different answers.

 

[pipokun]

I'm more interested in how I would be treated if I went to one of the "no gaijin" onsen and demostrated that I could speak the language and that I had a knowledge of the local customs.

The case was over ages ago.

If you are interested in Sapporo or Hokkaido , try to file a lawsuit against rip-off bars in Susukino, a party district in Sapporo.
Pimps there, however, are more friendly than other areas. For example, ask them when you get lost there, I am sure they are kind enough to tell you the right direction.

 

[gaijinalways]

It's been going on for a while. Some forget that some Koreans and Chinese were lynched while the police helped round them up in the 50s because there was a rumor that some non-Japanese poisoned the water supply. Ishihara, the Tokyo governor, recently was calling for the military and police to be viligent about possible foreign rioting after an eathquake in Japan, alluding to the aforementioned lynching incident.
The more things change, the less they don't, at least in Japan.

 

[Maciamo]

Diplomatie.be
4. Un extrait de casier judiciaire, ne datant pas de plus de 6 mois et couvrant les cinq dernieres annees.
けつかせ?

I am complaining about immigrants who commit crimes after coming to Belgium and do not get expelled from the country. I heard in the news recently that a big percentage (can't remember if it was 30% or 40% or more) of people in prisons in Belgium are from Moroccan origin... So not only do they commit crimes after getting their visa, but tax-payers must support the cost of prisons for them, and when they get out they are allowed to stay in Belgium again. For small crimes and offences, they should just be expelled with a black stamp on their passport and blacklisted by the immigration services, like they do in Japan, the US, Canada or Australia (maybe the UK too ?). For serious crimes, they should be deported and sent to prison in their home country*.

* N.B. : 95% of immigrants from Moroccan origin in Belgium do not have the Belgian nationality, although they are all eligible. The reason is that Belgium does not accept dual nationality (well actually this is going to change soon), and Moroccans care too much about their nationality to give it up, even those born and raised in Belgium !

 

[Maciamo]

I still prefer peaceful, indirect and hypocritical to shot or kill others for just an MP3 player.

The MP3 player murder was not a racist murder, as far as I know. Btw, such reckless murder are so rare in Belgium that it left the country shocked for several weeks, making the news for many days... There was even a protest march with tens of thousands of people, a special debate with the Prime Minister on TV, and it led to more police forces being deployed in train and metro stations (today I saw 10 policemen in just one metro station - although their role is dissuasive and they don't check anybody). You could say that it had a similar effect to 9/11 in the US, because murders in public places almost never happen in Belgium.

 

[yukio_michael]

Yukio says that Japan is racist, but racist to who? To tourists? To legal foreign residents? To illegal foreign residents? To those who show hostility to the local population and customs? We may get different answers.

I'm not concerened with anyone there illegally, I respect a nation's own immigration laws, and don't have sympathy for those who break them, regardless of the situation.

Racist to tourists? Why no, of course not. Tourists are the best kind of gaijin in Japan, they are guarunteed to come in, spend money, and then leave quite promptly, they want them to keep comming back, as long as they agree to leave.

To legal foreign residents? Yes, in every shape of the word. Read John Lie's book Multiethnic Japan, a book which tries to debunk the myth of Japan being a racially homogenous nation... to some extent he does this, and to some extent he reveals programs that exist for foreign workers and residents, but at the same time he points at the overal poor living conditions, mental anquish suffered by residents who have to basically, discard their ethnicities in order to please the Japanese government, and the basic distrust, surveilance, and ostracism they receive simply because they are not Japanese...

At the very best, they are permited the leeway of living in Japan because they fill dirty & dangerous jobs that young Japanese do not want, and because they look most-Japanese, that is, they're Asian, and can blend in better.

Japan has shown more than once it's reverance for Martin Luther King Jr, he even made it's top 100 list of historical figures, but imagine a world in which blacks were only permited into a society if they were light skinned... is this the type of world that Martin Luther King Jr invisioned? Is that racially harmonious? I think it's a hypocritical joke.

Maybe racism is too strong a word, xenophobia may be a bit better. Japan is a nation of the self agrandised who variously believe that foreigners are up to no good, whereas the very worst crimes (the murders, the odd slayings are commited by Japanese), who fear that foreigners will riot during the next earthquake and who's political leaders say so with impugnity...

Extract every other word I've said until now, racism, xenophobia inclusive, at the end, you are left with a single word:

Unwelcoming.

...And for someone, like myself, it's discouraging (but not defeating--- I decided that long ago, based on the sage words of a particular person on this forum)... to be locked out of something, much like the same policies lock those who are Japanese within a particular mindset.

 

[gaijinalways]

I share that feeling, hence my handle.

 

[yukio_michael]

Oh, I'd like to add, on another of your points that people all over the world can live with each other, China-town next to Little-Italy, next to a Viet Namese district, next to a Polish enclave... this doesn't produce the type of racial-tension that nations like France & Japan, and probably others no doubt, seem to fear...

France, for a nation which subjugated the Viet Namese, though arguably, it did the nation they occupied some good, has some rather twisted ideas about the raicial influx into it's own country... Cutting down on immigration to combat imagined 'racial tensions', which are actually 'fiscal tensions', and making people ascribe to the 'french way of life', are the same forms of ethno-self-agrandisement that are often ascribed to the Japanese.

 

[kkkktttt]

It's been going on for a while. Some forget that some Koreans and Chinese were lynched while the police helped round them up in the 50s because there was a rumour that some non-Japanese poisoned the water supply. Ishihara, the Tokyo governor, recently was calling for the military and police to be viligant about possible foreign rioting after an earthquake in Japan, alluding to the aforementioned lynching incident.
The more things change, the less they don't, at least in Japan.

関東大震災時の虐殺事件についての事でしたら、1923年です。
その後も戦災や地震・台風などの自然災害で、都市が壊滅的な破壊を被り無秩序状態に陥ることが数多くありましたが、マイノリティが無差別に暴力を加えられた例はただの一件もありません。

石原都知事の発言は、明らかに差別的なもので許されるべきではありません。

しかし、日本社会があたかも80年以上前の状況と変わらないかのような発言には悪意を感じざるを得ません。
あなた自身の日本に対する偏見がにじみ出ているように思われます。

ちなみに、国際連盟の席上で日本が提唱した人種差別撤廃条項が、アメリカやイギリスの主導する勢力によって葬り去られたのはそのわずか4年前のことです。
世界は変わり、日本も変化したのです。

 

[osias]

Oh, I'd like to add, on another of your points that people all over the world can live with each other, China-town next to Little-Italy, next to a Viet Namese district, next to a Polish enclave... this doesn't produce the type of racial-tension that nations like France & Japan, and probably others no doubt, seem to fear...

i would like to hear from minorities over there, if they agree with you or not.

 

[osias]

関東大震災時の虐殺事件についての事でしたら、1923年です。
その後も戦災や地震・台風などの自然災害で、都市が壊滅的な破壊を被り無秩序状態に陥ることが数多くありましたが、マイノリティが無差別に暴力を加えられた例はただの一件もありません。

石原都知事の発言は、明らかに差別的なもので許されるべきではありません。

しかし、日本社会があたかも80年以上前の状況と変わらないかのような発言には悪意を感じざるを得ません。
あなた自身の日本に対する偏見がにじみ出ているように思われます。

ちなみに、国際連盟の席上で日本が提唱した人種差別撤廃条項が、アメリカやイギリスの主導する勢力によって葬り去られたのはそのわずか4年前のことです。
世界は変わり、日本も変化したのです。

I'm very amazed by the demonstration of your knowledge. It's unfortunate that not everyone can read this.

 

[ricecake]

i would like to hear from minorities over there, if they agree with you or not.

I am Chinese-American presently living in a city named Dublin 45 miles southeast of San Francisco of California ( USA ),where northern California has multi-ethnic population from all over the world in the heart of SILICON VALLEY with high-tech giants like Apple Computer Cisco Sys,HP,Ebay,plus many more world-class innovative companies.

I and many non-white minorities can absolutely back up Yukio's truthful description of American society where different races and nationalities CAN LIVE IN HARMONY WITH VERY LITTLE RACIAL TENSIONS within framework of US government sponsored Civil Rights Act.

There are many social changes in California and through out USA in the past 30 years,people of different backgrounds can work side by side,attend same schools,reside in neighborhood of their choice,equal access to public domains,private businesses are ban from discriminatory practice by law.

Again,America is a nation of immigrants.

Of-course,no nation can say it's social problem free including USA.

 

[ricecake]

Maybe racism is too strong a word, xenophobia may be a bit better.

Chinese often use the word XENOPHOBIC for Japanese and Koreans' anti-foreign attitudes,not RACISM in the sense of Western mindset.

Orientals are not ingrained with racist concept.

 

[osias]

I am Chinese-American presently living in a city named Dublin 45 miles southeast of San Francisco in California ( USA ),where northern California has multi-ethnic population from all over the world in the heart of SILICON VALLEY with high-tech giants like Apple Computer/Cisco System,HP,Ebay,plus many more world-class innovative companies.
I and many non-white minorities can absolutely back up Yukio's truthful description of American society where different races and nationalities CAN LIVE IN HARMONY WITH VERY LITTLE RACIAL TENSIONS within framework of US government sponsored affirmative action.

Are there any regional differences?

 

[ricecake]

Are there any regional differences?

Of-course,there are differences due to demographic make up of each region for USA is a ethnically-racially diversed continental nation.

California and America's South West including Texas now heavily populated with Asians and Hispanics mainly Mexicans,except for the 1992 LA race riot otherwise we only get a few sporadic racially-motivated incidents locally.

America's North West with less overall population compare to California,there was a case or two Nazi-sympathizer related hate crime(s) directed at blacks and Asians in the state of Oregon some years ago otherwise no racial tensions among general public.

America's Mid West stays mostly peaceful except when bigoted older white neighborhoods are forced by federal law or local authorities to accept " black newcomers ".In the 1990's,there was this one Iowa city in the national news for battling mayor's decision to " welcome " or openingly recruit blacks in the name of diversity to come live in their town.

America's North East has traditional population of families been in this country for many generations.I can't tell you much since I've never been there and California gets very little news reportings about this region.

America's South institutionalized racism ( Jim Crow law ) against blacks BANNED by federal government with the enactment of Civil Rights Act of 1965.White and black plus other races are getting along fine,but remnants of deep-seated racism ( on blacks ) might still exist in many minds of local white folks.Unlike segregated times,local schools now allow blacks to attend.A few years ago,national TV news reported white students at some high schools in one southern state wanted a separate senior prom night exclude fellow black class-mates because they want a fun night for them whites only.

 

[ricecake]

Are there any regional differences?

Federal laws,Civil Rights Act and Affirmative Action apply to ALL 50 STATES of America.

Affirmative Action BANS employment discrimination.

Civil Rights Act BANS public written and outwardly racial discriminations including " WHITES only " sign.

 

[MiCC]

im pretty sure japan doesnt want to be a multi-ethnic country, look what happen to france muslim teen riots. multi-ethnic may sound like a good idea but it just doesn't work somtimes

 

[osias]

im pretty sure Japan doesn't want to be a multi-ethnic country, look what happen to france Muslim teen riots. multi-ethnic may sound like a good idea but it just doesn't work sometimes

I think Japan is willing to accept immigrants, but it just wants to be more selective. For example, a college degree from a Japanese university would be a requirement for an application of permanent residency. Ishihara is actually a leading exponent of the immigration policy, claiming that Japan is not a homogeneous country, but a multi-ethnic country with many roots.

石原知事「移民政策考えるべき」 - ライブドアニュース

東京都の石原慎太郎知事は22日の定例会見で、人口減少時代への対策として、「日本は積極的な移民政策を考えるべきだ」と述べ、しっかりした入国管理制度の必要性を強調した。石原知事は「人口減社会は決して悪いと

news.livedoor.com

東京都の石原慎太郎知事は22日の定例会見で、人口減少時代への対策として、「日本は積極的な移民政策を考えるべきだ」と述べ、しっかりした入国管理制度の必要性を強調した。

石原知事は「人口減社会は決して悪いとは思わないが、（高齢者が極端に多い）逆三角形のいびつな年齢配分は危険だ思う」と述べた。そして「きちんとした入国管理の下に移民政策を行えば、労働力提供だけでなく、若い人の結婚の問題とかも解消されてくると思う」と持論を語った。具体的には、日本の大学を卒業した外国人に永住権を与えることなどを挙げた。そして「日本人は単一民族ではない。多岐にわたるルーツがある」と付け加えた。

また、民主党の前原誠司代表の「中国脅威発言」について、「中国が脅威というのは当たり前だ。（中国が）何のためにあんな軍事力を持っているのか。日本の領海も度々侵犯されている」と述べ、「前原代表が言ったことは実に妥当だ」と語った。

 

[ricecake]

im pretty sure japan doesnt want to be a multi-ethnic country, look what happen to france muslim teen riots. multi-ethnic may sound like a good idea but it just doesn't work somtimes

China is one example with overly-diversed population,it has no benefits except ethnic strife.Me and some silent Han Chinese wish China is more homogenous " pure Han " but it's never meant to be since it's a continental expansionist nation through out much of China's history.

 

[yukio_michael]

im pretty sure japan doesnt want to be a multi-ethnic country, look what happen to france muslim teen riots. multi-ethnic may sound like a good idea but it just doesn't work somtimes

Yes, I have no idea why France can not seem to differentiate between poverty and ethnicity, but I don't think they can make up their minds about what they are actually trying to keep out of France, both I would suppose.

France has long been one of Europe's most coveted destinations for immigrants. A draft bill introduced to the French parliament will make it even more difficult to immigrate to France.

The new recommendations are for a more selective process that concentrates on recruiting only skilled immigrants.

France, like other European countries, is taking a harder look at the immigrants it lets in. The drive toward "selective" immigration is inspired by electoral politics, by fears that some immigrants are not integrating and may even be vectors for terrorism and by widely shared concerns that they overtax welfare systems and compete for scarce jobs.

Poor people will compete for jobs that they can not fill? They'll steal the dangerous meat packing & machinist jobs away from the aristocracy? None of this makes sense...

[The immigration reform] does away with a provision that allows foreigners who have been in the country for more than 10 years, even those here illegally, to apply for French citizenship.

Finally, the new laws will make obtaining 10-year-residency permits contingent on speaking French. Candidates will also have to prove they have assimilated into the French culture and learnt to respect the "values of the French republic."

Values of the French republic? In what way is the French system failing if it's own population can not fill it's skilled labour positions. The situation is probably better described by a dearth of education and improvement programs for the poor, who riot, and become labled as 'terrorist vectors...', again, self-agrandising & exclusionary, and I'd say closer to racism than Japan.

link: here

...and: here.

 

[ricecake]

France's one-time celebrated sex-kitten actress Bridget Bardot written a book in 2000 was banned by French court for racist-remarks targeted Arabs for " over-ran " her beloved FRANCE.

 

[gaijinalways]

ricecake posted

Chinese often use the word XENOPHOBIC for Japanese and Koreans' anti-foreign attitudes,not RACISM in the sense of Western mindset.

Orientals are not ingrained with racist concept.

Perhaps, they certainly don't seem to recognize it except when they think it's being directed towards them!

 

[ricecake]

関東大震災時の虐殺事件についての事でしたら、1923年です。
その後も戦災や地震・台風などの自然災害で、都市が壊滅的な破壊を被り無秩序状態に陥ることが数多くありましたが、マイノリティが無差別に暴力を加えられた例はただの一件もありません。
石原都知事の発言は、明らかに差別的なもので許されるべきではありません。
しかし、日本社会があたかも80年以上前の状況と変わらないかのような発言には悪意を感じざるを得ません。
あなた自身の日本に対する偏見がにじみ出ているように思われます。
ちなみに、国際連盟の席上で日本が提唱した人種差別撤廃条項が、アメリカやイギリスの主導する勢力によって葬り去られたのはそのわずか4年前のことです。
世界は変わり、日本も変化したのです。

Can I get English translation ?

I understood those Kanji words, not the entirety of this new article.

 

[ricecake]

I don't know how it is elsewhere in other parts of America,there are a few businesses I frequent here in northern California with wall sign reads " we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone ".Since it makes reference to particular race,therefore is permittable by local authorities.

 

[GodEmperorLeto]

Racism in the United States is an absolutely enormous topic that is way too big to deal with here. And there are books upon books written about it, and 300 years of history behind it. Add to that for the past 40 years, the United States has been in the midst of a cultural revolution, where the social establishment has been overturned on so many levels, and you have a really big mess that isn't easy to wade through.

From Cornell West's Race Matters to Beverly Daniel Tatum's Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria?, racial issues in the U.S. are incredibly complex and bereft of easy answers.

China is one example with overly-diversed population,it has no benefits except ethnic strife.Me and some silent Han Chinese wish China is more homogenous " pure Han " but it's never meant to be since it's a continental expansionist nation through out much of China's history.

I wouldn't say China has been expansionist. It repeatedly grows to unify a specific region in Eastern Asia, but rarely expands beyond that point. With the exeption of militaristic emperors such as Wu Ti during the Han Dynasty, I don't think the Chinese ever really attempted to expand farther beyond their current borders today. Take the case of Zheng He's armada and it's dismantling by the emperor in the early 15th century. Zheng He's armada was powerful enough to project Chinese influence all over the globe, and could have easily reached America, but was never dispatched.

Rather, I'd call the Chinese empires unificationist. They were empires, yes. But they never seemed to have the global objectives the Romans or Persians seemed to have had.

Values of the French republic?

I know. Tell me about it.

Which one? The First? La règne de la terreur characterized much of the First Republic. (Please excuse my rotten French).